Papa's Wrestling Thread

[Papa Pillman]

Sometimes there are just thoughts I have about what's going on in the wrestling world that I want to put out there, but I can't really find the right thread. Or there are wrestling spam threads I want to make just for the fuck of it that I know won't get many/any responses. Or I want to review or preview a match or show and I know no one else gives too many fucks.

So I thought I'd make a thread here to compile that stuff- my thoughts and opinions on wrestling news happenings, potential MOTY candidates, show reviews, random wrestling videos I come across and want to share, reflections on old wrestlers or angles, etc.

Anyone is free to interact if they care. Comment on my opinions, request to know my thoughts on something(past/present/future), etc.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I thought I'd kick this off by trying to find time review some, or atleast one, of the matches I nominated for match of the year from this year.

So here's my review of the Hardys v. Team 3D v. Wolves Ladder Match from Impact on 9/17, its my TNA MOTY.

Scenario: Hardys or 3D win and they're champs, Wolves win and they force a deciding match...

The Match: Instant brawling to start and a couple clever double teams--> Wolves with two sets of topés--> Taz:"Flying Wolves, you never see that much in the jungle"--> ladder in play--> two big enziguris by Eddie--> Wolves double team ladder attack eats a whisper in the wind--> Eddie is on fire--> Bully airplanes spins the ladder, wasssuppp on Eddie off a ladder--> Bully:"Get The Tables"--> Everyone eats ladders--> Wolves double powerbomb Bully off the ladder!--> Crowd: "THIS IS AWESOME"--> Matt Twisto's Eddie off the ladder!--> Bully superplexes Jeff off a ladder!--> Bully with a sick chop to Davey's back, Dudley Doomsday Device--> Double team twists on 3D--> Hardys stereo swanton/moonsault!--> Crowd is losing their shit--> Davey's back: broken?--> vintage Hardy offense(plus ladders)--> Crowd: "This is Wrestling"(actually its not, its people hitting each other with ladders)--> Jeff splashes Davey on a ladder--> 3D sets up a table ringside(I know, right?)--> Davey hits Bully's chair with a chair--> Bully's done--> Eddie double footstomp from up top on Devon on a chair--> Davey does the same to Matt, through the ringside table!--> Eddie and Jeff are climbing--> Davey pulls Jeff's ladder--> That Bump! Jeff's dead--> Eddie claims the Wolves' belts

My Take: This match was awesome and my favorite from the series. It wasn't overly innovative but that's the only knock. All of the big spots worked, nothing was blatantly botched, everything felt organic without much spot constructing with the hardware, everyone got to shine, and the crowd loved it. This stacks up with most any multi-team ladder match variant.

Rating: ****1/4

 

[Papa Pillman]

My quick take review of Final Battle:
(To be fair my stream sucked, but I have gone back and watched some of the event since, but these will not be detailed match reviews)

4 Corner Survival- I thought this worked for an opener, despite Caprice being a little sloppy(but not NEARLY as bad as some are accusing in retrospect) everyone looked good, and Hanson is awesome and this build up for him is being done nicely. **3/4 Coleman's botches cost the other quarter star

Strong vs. Page- What Roddy has done for Page and Cedric this year should be commended, he's played a major role in raising both guys stock, and both are future superstars for the company. I was looking forward to this match and it didn't disappoint in the slightest. Going in I wanted to see Page go over, but I think the actual ending worked even better, Page's Decade booking and relationship with the vets has been the jewel of this storyline. ***1/2 I probably liked this more than most

Elgin vs. Ciampa- Like most, I don't dig either man's story role right now, and I'm much lower in general on Ciampa than most. I did get how this ended though, and these two have good chemistry, this wasn't as good as there other one-on-one encounters overall though. ***

Bucks/ACH vs. Addiction/Ced- I loved this booking, I geeked out at the match announcement, and it lived up to all of it. Everyone did their shit and it flowed awesome. I'd love to see Cedric form an occasional alliance with Kaz and Daniels, those three were amazing together. **** THE WRONG TEAM WON!

RD Evans vs. Moose- I actually like the story leading into this match, and thought the Veda swerve was solid too(even if a little predictable). I don't mind when RD botches because his character allows it- its his charater/mic work that makes him great, not his in-ring execution. And Moose is a fun watch in small doses. This story eventually HAS to end in RD getting a clean win over Moose(or atleast Stokely Hathaway) for any of this to not be a failure by Delirious. **1/4 I realize I enjoyed this WAY more than most

Lethal vs. Sydal- Still better than I was expecting(it didn't have to do much, as I was waiting the whole time for Truth to ruin it like all of Lethal's defenses), but I'm over this current version of the H.O.T. already(hell, I have been for months). ***

reDRagon vs. Time Splitters- Although the ending was never in doubt, they still managed to build some drama. All four men are incredible and have stupid good chemistry with their partners and outstanding understanding of the psychology and timing of tag team wrestling in general. This was a can't miss that didn't, even without the need to go all out in the way that the 6-man had earlier. **** Possibly lower than some rated it, but I don't think it was quite as good as their NJPW stuff, I was temted to go a quarter star less as a result, but these guys worked too hard for that

Jay Briscoe vs. Adam Cole(Bay-Bay)- I fucking loved this. Period. This is what Final Battle is about, months and months of great storytelling ending in a violent and perfectly laid out finale. All of the nuances were perfect, I have basically no criticism, Cole stapling the "reserved for Mr. Briscoe" paper to Jay's head was glorious as was the mouth tack/superkick spot. And the Jay Driller on the belt is maybe the greatest single poetic storytelling moment in wrestling in years. I like the ultraviolent stuff more than most of the current ROH fanbase, so I think this match was everything I had hoped it could possibly be and the right man DEFINITELY won. ****1/2


Overall this is the best Final Battle in years, it was a clearly superior show to BITW, and it sets up ROH to roll right into 2015, which has the chance to be the biggest year in the promotion's history.

Quick note about NYC: the crowd didn't seem AS bad as some have indicated, but it did suck, like most all ROH NYC crowds lately have. Also Terminal 5 didn't look great on TV either. It may be time for ROH to get out of NYC for Final Battle and perhaps cut the city down to maybe one major show a year.

 

[three count bout]

Thanks for the review of Final Battle Papa, I'm in agreement with almost all your match ratings. I watched the show last night and really enjoyed it and I'm glad to see ROH keeping this momentum they have built up recently.

A few questions, does Caprice botch often? I noticed it during Final Battle, I didn't think it ruined the match but it was noticeable. He pulled it together at the end either way.

I liked what I saw from Page, and I think the decision to not have him tap was smart. I may have wanted to see a little more offense from Page but that can be saved for a later match between the two.

I also liked the RD Evans Vs Moose match, and yes Vedas betrayal was predictable but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right call to make.

The closure on the Briscoe and Cole feud was beautiful. I wonder where Briscoe goes from here though? Aside from Cole and Elgin is anyone else built up to face him for the belt?

 

[Papa Pillman]

Thanks for the review of Final Battle Papa, I'm in agreement with almost all your match ratings. I watched the show last night and really enjoyed it and I'm glad to see ROH keeping this momentum they have built up recently.

You're welcome, and the way Sinclair is currently behind the product, the sky is the limit for ROH heading into the new year.

A few questions, does Caprice botch often? I noticed it during Final Battle, I didn't think it ruined the match but it was noticeable. He pulled it together at the end either way.

I'd say his botch percentage is definitely higher than average, but its directly a result of his moveset. Caprice has a lot of innovative stuff that looks awesome when it works, but he misses a lot of times on his execution. If he dumbed down his approach he would look very clean as he's a solid vet who honestly does seem fundamentally sound, but I think he knows at his age and at this point in his career his only chance to stand out on a stage like ROH with so many phenomenal(and younger) workers, he has to push the limits of his offense, sometimes that really costs him.

I liked what I saw from Page, and I think the decision to not have him tap was smart. I may have wanted to see a little more offense from Page but that can be saved for a later match between the two.

I think Page had to take a beatdown for the ending to work. He had to show his perseverance in taking the beating and still refusing to tap to finally win Jacobs' approval.

The closure on the Briscoe and Cole feud was beautiful. I wonder where Briscoe goes from here though? Aside from Cole and Elgin is anyone else built up to face him for the belt?

Lethal maybe?

Ciampa or Elgin could also possibly be stop-gap challengers.

I think eventually the plan will be for AJ Styles to be the man who ends Briscoe's streak and reign though. Possibly as soon as 13th Anniversary, but Mania weekend or the next set of ROH/NJPW crossover events may also be the time for that victory.

 

[three count bout]

Good call I completely forgot about AJ. At first I was sad he wasn't booked for Final Battle, but I'm glad he wasn't shoe horned in there just for the sake of having him on the card.

That opening video that showed the 2014 highlights was pretty damn awesome!

 

[Papa Pillman]

My thoughts on ROH seemingly making official the news that was rumored to be in the offing for a while, no more so than when Kyle O'Reilly dropped the PWG World title at the last PWG show, that ROH is pulling all of its exclusively contracted talent from PWG(as well as most if not all North American indy shows)...

I get that this isn't really hurting the wrestlers. With ROH running more shows, and with most or all of these guys having the opportunity to work New Japan, and with the supposedly large downsides built in even when they aren't working shows, the wrestlers are making their money.

I also get ROH's side. They're protecting their guys from injury and outside booking, while also using the exclusivity to increase those wrestlers' drawing power at ROH events.

With all of that said, I fucking hate it.

For one reason more than any other:

PWG is where we got to see Kyle O'Reilly compete against the best independent talent in North America in singles action.

I don't want to see reDRagon break up but as long as they are the best full time tag team in ROH we are only very sparingly going to get to see Kyle O'Reilly(who IMO proved with his PWG world title run that he is legitimately ready at any time to be a realistic world championship contender in ROH too) participate in any type of singles competition.

So I get it.

But as a fan, it sucks.



On a side not, I'm also gonna miss the Unbreakable Fuckin' Machines.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Talking about the Benoit/Regal match from the 2000 Brian Pillman Memorial Show in my interview with Silverback in the Bar Room really got me thinking about the number of great matches that I have been privileged enough to see live.

So I challenged myself to try and come up with a full eight match fantasy card of the best matches that I have been in attendance for, and this is what I came up with(these are in no order besides what I think would flow best as a card, not ranking any one over the others by quality):

Opener:
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton - Smackdown 6/18/13 (aired 6/21/13)
This was right in the middle of the hot little June series these two had about one month after Team Hell No stopped teaming, and about a month before Randy won MITB. This was part of the build that all lead to Bryan's SummerSlam win and Randy's cash-in. It happened one night after the infamous Street Fight on Raw that was stopped early in an apparent shoot stoppage by the referee. It mostly makes this list as a pleasant surprise. Even as great as these two are I never expect to get a main event this strong at a SmackDown taping, I left buzzing about how well these two mesh as opponents, it was just great stuff and the countout ending actually worked really well here.

Match #2:
Micheal Elgin vs. Cedric Alexander - ROH Flyin' High 3/22/14
This match BLEW ME AWAY live, Elgin was still really hot at this point (just about 10 weeks or so shy of winning the belt) and I'm a big fan of Cedric, but as a match just thrown in the middle of what looked like it would be a one match card, I had no expectations for it. What they delivered was 15 minutes of mind-blowing action with a star turn for Cedric in the best match of his career. The nearfalls were outstanding and really made it look at times like the booking could defy all logic with a Cedric victory. That didn't happen as Cedric lost the match. But he no doubt left the Fairgrounds as a winner, despite going down, due to the magnitude of his performance. I literally had this as a 4.25-4.5 star match live, and it nearly holds up to that on rewatch.

Match #3
Chris Hero vs. AJ Styles - ROH Flyin' High 3/22/14
Since I listed Ced/Elgin, I figured I should also list the match that I attended this show for, as it also reaches expectations. This happened relatively shortly after Hero and Styles had ended their runs with WWE and TNA, and happened in Hero's hometown(essentially) this match was every bit worth the billing as a Dream Match, and they worked like it. Styles totally was rolling like he was for all of 2014, and Chris was spectacular doing the stiffest work I've ever seen from him(and I've seen him A LOT live). I was slightly disappointed with the suddenness of the ending, and thought that it could've been a classic effort with five more minutes and some false finishes, but given how quickly Hero tapped when AJ locked in the calf killer, it may have been an indication that AJ was legitimately knocked a little loopy during the action from all of Hero's massively stiff boots. It was much closer to the level of Elgin/Cedric on re-watch though, and it featured a nice post match angle with Hero and the Decade and is also notable as Hero's last ROH appearance to date.

Match #4
Kevin Steen vs. Silas Young No DQ - ROH Summer Heat Tour: Cincinnati 7/18/14
This match is special to me as it was a chance to see Kevin Steen say goodbye to ROH, standing as the middle match of his three match farewell tour. It showed off everything that makes Steen great, as it he displayed a lot of comedy with a fun exchange on the mic during the match, the crowd was rabid, and it was just classic violent Steen action with both men making use of all of the plunder for some big-time(though tediously set-up) spots. Also Steen, ever the pro, put Silas over on his way out. Its still sad Silas' injury halted the momentum he had built from summer into the fall of last year.

Match #5
Chris Benoit vs. William Regal - 3rd Annual Brian Pillman Memorial Show - 5/25/00
Another match that was totally unexpected. This card was more about novelty and the chance to see wrestlers from WWF, ECW, and WCW on the same card while showing respect to the memory of Pillman and raising money for his family. No one expected Benoit, semi recently having joined the WWF and returning to Cincy for the first time since winning the WCW world title on his last night with the company, and Regal who was trying to overcome some out of ring demons and was out of the spotlight training WWF developmental in Memphis, to go out and do what they did; put on one of the greatest displays of technical wrestling brilliance this millennium. Dr. Tom Prichard raves about this match as the one he shows every wrestler that he trains as a way to demonstrate the act of making every motion in a match count. I was captivated live, and Regal's getting busted open hardway early on from a Benoit head butt and wrestling the entire match in crimson mask added to the drama and surrealness of the experience. I call it the best match I've ever seen live due to how it made me connect with it.

Match #6
Jerry Lynn and Rob Van Dam vs. The Impact Players - ECW Heat Wave '99 7/18/99
ECW must've loved the Dayton market, holding Heat Wave here in consecutive years in '98 and '99. I missed the '98 show and wasn't risking missing this one. The show had about 4,000 crazy people, which is the biggest crowd I have ever seen in Hara arena for anything I've attended there. RVD was my favorite wrestler on the planet at the time and Lynn and Storm were on my shortlist, so seeing this match main event was a serious mark-out moment for an 18 year old me. The rest of the show fell way short of the mark on rewatch(except for Crazy/Guido and also including a missed flaming table spot in the tag title match that was fucking scary live) but this match was a perfect example of the stuff ECW was great at in its last couple years, as RVD did some incredible stuff(especially with chairs)after the hot tag that his critics would surely label as overkill, but as a teenage RVD mark seeing it live, I was losing my shit. The Sabu run-in was also awesome, and though hoped for and somewhat predictable, was still super cool.

Co-Main Event
Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Jarrett - Ultra Male Rules 2 Out of 3 Falls Cage Match TNA LockDown '11 4/17/11
The feud that Angle and Jarrett had in 2011 is criminally underrated and this is my favorite match in the series. The first fall was a little quick and the ending was overbooked(and shocking since I think people were expecting this to be the blow-off), but aside from that I have no criticisms, These two worked phenomenally well together and Jarrett's heel work shines even brighter live. The two big "botches" actually added more than they took away from the match with Kurt literally nearly killing himself to unglue the crowd, The screwy superbomb into attempted Frankensteiner reversal was gasp-worthy live as was Kurt's (completely overshot) cage-top Moonsault, which is still maybe the damnedest thing I've ever witnessed in a live wrestling match.

Main Event
Jay Briscoe vs. Mark Briscoe vs. Kyle O'Reilly vs. Eddie Edwards vs. Michael Elgin vs. Roderick Strong - Survival of the Fittest Finals Elimination Match ROH Survival of the Fittest 2011 11/18/11
I can't begin to sum this match up in only a paragraph. It was the most fun and engaging experience I've ever had with a match live and it had to "main event" this fictional card of my live experiences, because frankly nothing could follow it. It took forever before the eliminations started happening, and none before a crazy brawl outside between all six men after tag legalities broke down lead to a batshit crazy top rope moonsault to the floor by Elgin on the other six men! Once the eliminations started, everyone but Elgin and O'Reilly bowed out within about a minute. This left a dead O'Reilly who had gone through a table to go one on one with the monster Elgin for the win and the title shot. The story they told over the next few minutes with the small man O'Reilly refusing to die while getting molliwhopped at every turn and getting some shock rally nearfalls of his own had the crowd rabid for Kyle and made him more over for those last ten or so minutes than I've ever seen any wrestler at any point in any match that I've ever seen live. Though it was all for naught, as a crowd we chanted our fucking hearts out for Kyle and poured emotion on every inch of the Fairgrounds to match the effort Kyle and Elgin were drenching the ring with. That is the night that O'Reilly and Elgin became stars and made men in ROH, and I'll never forget what it felt like to experience it. I may do a detailed review soon in another post if I can find the time.


So that's my take on the "best matches I ever saw live" Card. I'd kill to go back and have those experiences again, but what I love about going to wrestling shows is that every one presents a chance for the same type of moment to occur for me again, and I always love to go back and re-watch these when I can to help me to never forget what they mean to me.

If anyone else would like to play this game feel free to leave your own fantasy card of the best matches that you got to be in attendance for here in my thread, I'd love to hear them. And don't feel the need to be as detailed as I was if that's not your thing. Or I'd also love to hear feedback on what you thought of my card(especially if you remember watching any of these matches yourself on tape at any point).

 

[Papa Pillman]

Okay so I just watched last night's Impact on DVR...

LockDown 2015: Disappearing into a Dark Oblivion
*no like seriously sometimes though

Revolution versus the Hardy's was cool. It was nice to see Sanada and Manik get the chance for big spots. The bump they drew up for Jeff looked worse on the Youtube crowd video. Storm is definitely making this Revolution thing work.

I kinda thought Havok/Kong was fucking awesome. It definitely stresses how dominant Kong is, but was still able to reinforce Havok as a monster too.

I really liked EY/Roode, specifically because is was so different from their last two matches, their number one contender's match back on Spike and the match from a couple weeks back. It had the emotion, and EY sold both the crazy, and the beating. This may sound fucked up to say, but I was glad to see EY blade.

Everything about Mark Andrews and Spud against Tyrus was Perfect. I love "Spandrews". Those two dudes killed themselves. The dive for Spud (that apparently came from space) was a huge drop, and the cage door spot to the head was stiff too. And that T-bone Mandrews took in the corner, and the way his head hit the outside steps . I just dig the giant monster versus small plucky highflyer dynamic when it's done right, and everything just clicked. This feud is so good and it is easily spanning the time that EC3 is injured without even acknowledging that he had surgery, and still finding a spot he can fill on the show. And he's clearly been just as incredible since the relaunch despite working injured. All four guys work here and its just really smart booking. Involving JB has even been a great add, and having him cut the chord, before escaping over the guard rail into a black hole, was nice storytelling. This has been a good way to telegraph a Hair vs. Hair match. Even at only like six or so minutes for the actual match portion, I'd be willing to go over *** on this match just to reflect the strength of the entire segment.

Thank god the Robbie/Brooke thing wasn't a full segment.

Lethal Lockdown was probably the best one since Fortune/Immortal in 2010. Since there was no lid(aside from the intense blackness overhead), it was a great decision to include weapons for the entire match, it kept the middle sections from lagging. There were still more actual wrestling moves happening than we get in most LL's, despite having the weapons all along, and there were some brutal weapon shots, especially when Joe got the cane late in the match. The Lashley run-in came off really well, and the ending was clever and created a cool visual. I wish I could've seen the match in its entirety, so that I could give it a proper star rating.

As usual, Lockdown delivered. Like Slammiversary, TNA gets Lockdown right most years, and the lack of PPV didn't change that for 2015. Editing a version of this show that is cut in full with no breaks and that includes some promos and extended build-up packages, and then releasing it on DVD, would be a smart move by TNA. I got exactly what I want from Lockdown- great storytelling and tons of big spots.



Oh, and FUCK THE LIGHTING.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

It really can't be said enough. Looks like a wrestling show shot on the moon. I have no idea what in the bluest of blue fucks they are doing with that shit. Between the six sided ring and the moon-set, I can't fucking deal with IMPACT or TNA or whatever the hell the name of it is these days.

 

[Papa Pillman]

It really can't be said enough. Looks like a wrestling show shot on the moon. I have no idea what in the bluest of blue fucks they are doing with that shit. Between the six sided ring and the moon-set, I can't fucking deal with IMPACT or TNA or whatever the hell the name of it is these days.

It's so frustrating, and even more so because the Grand Ballroom is such a cool looking wrestling venue, the shows they did from there on Spike last year looked great. Ever since the move it feels like I'm watching Impact on DestinationJupiter.

The justification of wanting to keep the focus in the ring doesn't fly with me. The product has been high quality and kept the momentum that was built in the second half of 2014 since the relaunch, and rising ratings prove it. But instead of drawing focus to that, the lighting is so distracting that it is creating the opposite of the stated desired effect.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The justification of wanting to keep the focus in the ring doesn't fly with me. The product has been high quality and kept the momentum that was built in the second half of 2014 since the relaunch, and rising ratings prove it. But instead of drawing focus to that, the lighting is so distracting that it is creating the opposite of the stated desired effect.

It's not like its particularly difficult to do. It was done all the time in the late 70s/early 80s NWA and WWF. So I don't buy it either, its not for effect, its just downright buffoonery.

and the ballroom IS a very cool venue. So its far from impossible to make smaller but unique venues really work for you with the proper lighting and ambiance....I think ROH's Tennessee fairgrounds venue looks very cool, as well as the spot they had their last PPV in (very poor energy not withstanding).


They desperately need to get it fixed. Has a very off-putting kind of eerie feeling to it, which is the opposite of what you are trying to get people endeared to in a pro wrestling show.

 

[Papa Pillman]

In honor of the start of the 2015 WZT, I thought that I would throw out what my seeding list would've looked like had I been solicited to provide one.

I know you were all holding your breath for my rankings
And this should also give a baseline for who you should expect me to vote for in any given match-up in the tourney...

1. Ric Flair
2. Steve Austin
3. Hulk Hogan
4. Mitsuharu Misawa
5. Bruno Sammartino
6. John Cena
7. The Rock
8. Sting
9. Taker
10. Randy Savage
11. Andre
12. HBK
13. Bret Hart
14. Lou Thesz
15. El Santo
16. Triple H
17. Hiroshi Tanahashi
18. Kurt Angle
19. Mick Foley
20. Antonio Inoki
21. Dusty Rhodes
22. Brock Lesnar
23. Randy Orton
24. Keiji Mutoh
25. Harley Race
26. Ricky Steamboat
27. Terry Funk
28. Chris Jericho
29. Bob Backlund
30. Daniel Bryan
31. CM Punk
32. Chris Benoit
33. Roddy Piper
34. Giant Baba
35. Vader
36. Mil Mascaras
37. Nick Bockwinkel
38. Edge
39. Jerry Lawler
40. Verne Gagne
41. Dory Funk Jr.
42. Blue Demon
43. Ultimate Warrior
44. Rey Mysterio Jr.
45. Eddie Guerrero
46. Kenta Kobashi
47. Jack Brisco
48. Jushin Liger
49. Billy Graham
50. Rob Van Dam
51. Shinsuke Nakamura
52. Frank Gotch
53. Rikidozan
54. Buddy Rodgers
55. Ed Lewis
56. AJ Styles
57. Barry Windham
58. Booker T
59. Jumbo Tsuruta
60. Stan Hansen
61. Jim Londos
62. Gorgeous George
63. Bruiser Brody
64. Curt Hennig
65. Jeff Hardy
66. Genichiro Tenryu
67. Alberto "Dos Caras Jr." El Patron Del Rio Rodriguez
68. Kane
69. Big Show
70. Ultimo Dragon
71. Ted Dibiase
72. Rick Rude
73. Christian
74. Bill Goldberg
75. Samoa Joe
76. Arn Anderson
77. Jeff Jarrett
78. Sargent Slaughter
79. El Hijo Del Santo
80. Toshiaki Kawada
81. Shinya Hashimoto
82. Diamond Dallas Page
83. Dynamite Kid
84. Kerry Von Erich
85. Scott Hall
86. Tully Blanchard
87. Dean Malenko
88. Brian Pillman
89. Owen Hart
90. Riki Choshu
91. Terry Gordy
92. Johnny Valentine
93. Freddie Blassie
94. Tatsumi Fujinama
95. The Sheik
96. Canek
97. Antonino Rocca
98. Yuji Nagata
99. Satoshi Kojima
100. Hiroyoshi Tenzan
101. Karl Gotch
102. Bill Longson
103. Bobby Roode
104. Dos Caras
105. Gene Kiniski
106. Bobo Brazil
107. Killer Kowalski
108. British Bulldog
109. Bam Bam Bigelow
110. Taz
111. Minoru Suzuki
112. Takeshi Morishima
113. Abdullah The Butcher
114. Raven
115. Paul Orndorf
116. Jake Roberts
117. Tito Santana
118. Pat Patterson
119. Sabu
120. KENTA
121. Masahiro Chono
122. Kevin Steen
123. Masato Tanaka
124. Mike Awesome
125. Austin Aries
126. Jerry Lynn
127. Lance Storm
128. Seth Rollins

"The Just Missed" or "The Milk Cartons" or "The First Eight Out" or "The Bursted Bubbles": Davey Richards, Greg Valentine, Jimmy Snuka, Jun Akiyama, Kazuyuki Fujita, Gory Guerrero, Carlos Colon, Nobuhiko Takada.

 

[Papa Pillman]

We're gonna title this post ATTN: KB (and then we'll all pretend that he might even read it too at some point and discuss it a little)

I listened to NorCal's podcasts earlier tonight(or earlier this morning perhaps?- semantics) and at the end of the KB show, Souled Out '98 was brought into the mix.

This show is a major regret for me, as it was in Dayton and I had to miss it due to a mandatory job thing. That job caused me to miss a different show that year too(perhaps Heat Wave?). The following year I said fuck that job.

Everyone who has payed attention to any of my posts in the past knows how I feel about Ric Flair and Chris Benoit. So, yeah. I Fucking missed it live.

All of that said: It was mostly a three match show.

Quick review(complete with snowflakes in case anyone gave a shit):

The Lucha 8-man was a batshit crazy hot-opener. At least WCW had that part of the equation figured out. ***3/4

Benoit v. Raven- the build was awesome. The match was awesome. The chair work was brutal. I don't know what's more disturbing in retrospect, the creepy way Raven takes the choke-out at the end, or spots like Benoit's flying concussion-butt to the chair. ****
Aside: The work Raven was doing in early '98 was awesome, the Benoit stuff was killer and the 3-way with DDP and the first DDP/Raven PPV match were great too. This was the best stretch of Raven's career that didn't involve Dreamer(at least prior to his underrated TNA work).

Jericho v. Rey- The Rey on one wheel thing ends up holding this back too much. They had a much better match on Nitro later that Summer. **1/2

The segment about the title situation? Fucking shoot me. Triple H and Steph would appreciate the pacing of this segment. Anyone else? Not so much.

Martel v. Booker- Martel did look better by all rights than he should have, but this match had no heat by design, and it killed the crowd. I know some do really like it though. Me? Not as much. **

Don't even get me started on the Hall/Spicolli/Legend/Dusty thing. Jesus Fuck. DUD would be generous.

The next match was the worst 6-man tag in the history of major professional wrestling. 1/4* and that is only because of the Screwdriver

Giant v. Nash- This kind of worked for a while. And then it didn't. Fuck you with that "hot" coffee spot. And then the Jackknife botch to finish off the fuckery. *3/4

Flair v. Hart- ****

Fuck the Luger/Savage match. Fuck it right up Hogan's ego. 3/4* at least Sting looked like a badass at the end and really popped the crowd for the go-home high


Overall this show could have been borderline great, with just a little reshuffling of the match order, but as it is? It's just too disjointed to ever be considered a truly great show. But it had some great matches.

Opinions on this show "WZF Universe"?? Where Papa was right? Where Papa was wrong? Go.

 

[Papa Pillman]

First: Rest In Peace Dusty Rhodes.

I've been a Dusty fan since I was a very small child, and this was incredibly sad news.

With that said, now I'm gonna fantasy book a little bit, and flesh out the current Rhodes family direction:

I think to start the show on Sunday they should have Cody and Dustin come to the ring in no paint and street clothes, and they should throw to a video tribute. Then when the cameras return to the ring, Cody should go into a full on borderline shoot(worked and approved of course). He should shame the company for the ridiculous gimmicks that he was given, and stress how he knocked them out of the park, but has still been held back. And then he should get to Stardust and he should apologize to Dustin and posthumously to his father for how the Stardust character treated and spoke to them. He should further shame the company for creating that story and that character. He should shame them for openly building a match where he would be expected to lose to some Hollywood TV star who's never been in a wrestling ring. He should call out the Authority and shame Stephanie for how she spoke to his father on TV for the sake of a storyline. He should get Stephanie to cry and convince her to add him into the MITB ladder match.

Cody should then WIN the match and the briefcase to CLOSE the show.

He should be the first person to enter at RAW on Monday, come to the ring with the case and bask in the deafening pop(and wait out several minutes of chants for him and his father), instantly becoming the most over babyface on the roster. It would create an interesting buzz for the company, and would be a huge feel good decision.

This plan is easy to execute, it only minimally exploits the situation, and it will work, in fact its nearly bulletproof. It would appropriately reward both Cody's talent, effort, and loyalty; as well as his father's memory.