Packers Get Screwed

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

If you watched tonight's game then you know what I'm talking about. The Seahawks through a hail mary pass at the end of the game and it was caught by Jennings(green bay) while Tate(Seattle) had one arm on it. Jennings had possession of the ball but the refs still called it a TD thus costing the Packers the game. Obviously this should get Goodell to speed up negotiations with the original refs. Thoughts?

 

[Akhilleus]

I honestly think you're wrong in thinking it has to do with the replacement referees. That was a very tough call to make, and I think even the regular officials would have had trouble deciding what to do.

I agree that it looked like Jennings did have full possession, but his feet didn't even hit the ground yet, and Tate looked like he got both hands around the ball before they both landed. From their angle, it was hard to see what happened. There has to be conclusive evidence when reviewing such things as well, and since the generally idea was a touchdown, I think they favored it more.

Plus the Seahawks did have more field, and a hail mary win is also exciting. The young referees likely had that in their mind, and sadly felt more obligated to choose call it a touchdown.

These referees are under so much pressure, and with all the controversy people are stirring...it only makes it worse all around. The more people complain, the more pressure the refs will be under, and the more they will make bad calls.

But the Referees union couldn't be any lucky. I think they should ask for even more money now, because they know the NFL is rushing to get a deal done. I think the NFL shouldn't budge though, because eventually these refs will get the hang of it. The NFL is an entirely different sport, so it's even harder to make these sort of calls for referees have might haven't even coached higher than a high school level.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I honestly think you're wrong in thinking it has to do with the replacement referees. That was a very tough call to make, and I think even the regular officials would have had trouble deciding what to do.

I agree that it looked like Jennings did have full possession, but his feet didn't even hit the ground yet, and Tate looked like he got both hands around the ball before they both landed. From their angle, it was hard to see what happened. There has to be conclusive evidence when reviewing such things as well, and since the generally idea was a touchdown, I think they favored it more.

Plus the Seahawks did have more field, and a hail mary win is also exciting. The young referees likely had that in their mind, and sadly felt more obligated to choose call it a touchdown.

I agreed with everything you had to say up until you said "young". Inexperienced maybe, but those guys were not young. They looked older than some of the regular crews that I see.

This has been the most exciting weekend of pro football that I can ever remember. All those close and overtime finishes were great. The replacement refs are getting way more attention than they deserve. I can't remember a single time I ever watched a game where the referees did a great job. These refs need to understand that they are not a big part of the NFL experience. They prepare, travel and work a few hours a weeks to do a job that is being done at a Pop Warner, high school, college, semi-pro and pro level. They deserve to be compensated fairly but they don't have to do the job and I think they make pretty good money.

Is anyone really going to stop watching over this? I highly doubt it. Between the game itself, favorite teams, favorite players, fantasy and having a reason to get together with people you like for a few hours on a Sunday people aren't going anywhere. Hell, people may watch more often to see the so-called "train-wreck" officiating.

These referees are under so much pressure, and with all the controversy people are stirring...it only makes it worse all around. The more people complain, the more pressure the refs will be under, and the more they will make bad calls.

But the Referees union couldn't be any lucky. I think they should ask for even more money now, because they know the NFL is rushing to get a deal done. I think the NFL shouldn't budge though, because eventually these refs will get the hang of it. The NFL is an entirely different sport, so it's even harder to make these sort of calls for referees have might haven't even coached higher than a high school level.

Exactly, it is a tough job and they fuck up all the time. It just gets more attention now due to the circumstance. Last year teams like GB and NE would have been saying that they need to get the win on their own and not put the game in that type of situation where there is a chance to lose. Now they are all whiners.

Go Bills!

 

[Mustang Sally]

I honestly think you're wrong in thinking it has to do with the replacement referees. That was a very tough call to make, and I think even the regular officials would have had trouble deciding what to do.

Agreed. I sure wouldn't want to be the ref that has to make that call. We watched replay after replay from different angles.....and I still can't decide. Some views seemed to indicate the receiver having the ball first and the defensive guy wrestling it away from him, while other angles showed the receiver with his hand on the ball but possession belonging to the defense.

Are the regular officials better than the replacement guys? Obviously, but let's not fool ourselves; there's going to be complaining about officiating from fans and teams even when the permanent crew comes back. There always has been; every week you read the papers and see someone being fined for criticizing the refs. Players, team management, fans and media blame an official with 22 years NFL experience for ruining the game for them, upsetting the balance of football in general......and surely endangering our chances for world peace with that bogus defensive holding call in the third quarter.

Yes, we need the old refs, but let's not pretend things will be rosy when they get back. For balance, I've often wished referees could be quoted in the media after a game, criticizing players or coaches performance in a game they officiated. Once I read: "Did you see Belichick calling a draw play on that 3rd and 8 in the last quarter? What a stupid call, the moron" I believe we then will have heard it all.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

I think touchdown plays should be made reviewable in the final 2 minutes. That would fix stuff like that but the Packers got screwed whether it was the old refs or the new refs, they got screwed. You're right the old refs would've been just as confused but they at least wouldn't have called some of the bogus penalties that these guys did.

 

[Akhilleus]

Touchdown plays are review able at any time and place, by the booth. They reviewed that one last night.

 

[justinsayne]

I think touchdown plays should be made reviewable in the final 2 minutes. That would fix stuff like that but the Packers got screwed whether it was the old refs or the new refs, they got screwed. You're right the old refs would've been just as confused but they at least wouldn't have called some of the bogus penalties that these guys did.

All scoring plays are reviewed, that's what makes this all the more frustrating, there was no indisputable proof in the replay so the call on the field has to stand, which was a bad call & unclear, there were initially two different calls on the field, one ref said no catch, the other signaled TD. Though all of this could've been avoided if they were paying attention & called the blatant Offensive pass interference by Tate in the endzone, fucker literally shoves Shields to the ground when jumping up for the ball, had a flag been thrown there, game over, & it doesn't matter who catches the ball. At the same time I'm angry with GB defense, how the fuck do you let a rookie QB run around that much in the back field & give him that much fucking time?!?

 

[hatehabsforever]

In fairness, that was a pretty tough call. In my opinion, they did get it wrong, but I'm not necessarily convinced that the regular officials would have definitely got it correct. And there's no way the video review was conclusive enough to overturn the call on the field.

Fact of the matter is, there's no excuse for the Seattle goddamn Seahawks to have even been in a position to contend for this victory in the dying seconds of this game, Hail Mary or otherwise. Seattle gave the Packers all they could handle for the entire game, and that's why Green Bay lost. If Green Bay had played as well as they are capable of playing, it should have been about 35-7 at this stage of the game, rather than 12-7, and there would have been no possibility of last second dramatics or controversy. Sure, it's convenient to blame the officials, but maybe the Packers should look in the mirror when trying to justify this loss.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

All scoring plays are reviewed, that's what makes this all the more frustrating, there was no indisputable proof in the replay so the call on the field has to stand, which was a bad call & unclear, there were initially two different calls on the field, one ref said no catch, the other signaled TD. Though all of this could've been avoided if they were paying attention & called the blatant Offensive pass interference by Tate in the endzone, fucker literally shoves Shields to the ground when jumping up for the ball, had a flag been thrown there, game over, & it doesn't matter who catches the ball. At the same time I'm angry with GB defense, how the fuck do you let a rookie QB run around that much in the back field & give him that much fucking time?!?

Yes but they can only determine that the ball was caught they can't dispute who. That's the ref's job. I agree that Tate definitely shoved Shields down which should've been offensive pass interference, then we wouldn't be debating this. Packers would be 2-1.

 

[CH David]

Habs said it. The Packers put themselves in position for this. If they had made adjustments on offense earlier, this wouldn't have been necessary. Now yes, the call was obviously blown. If you're going to say "screw it" to the OPI, then you have to get the call correct. The ref on the sidelines decided to not call the OPI, and then he is the one to call a touchdown. Horrible vision problems. The on-field call was wrong, so the review couldn't overturn that without clear evidence.

I don't know if this is going to make Goodell talk to the owners and get this ref thing done. Are people boycotting games? Are players sitting games out? The players are all pissed, but Goodell honestly couldn't give a shit. The NFL is still making billions, so why the fuck should they change? Fans, players, etc... aren't giving them a reason to change.

TJ Lang was awesome on Twitter last night. Good stuff.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Habs said it. The Packers put themselves in position for this. If they had made adjustments on offense earlier, this wouldn't have been necessary. Now yes, the call was obviously blown. If you're going to say "screw it" to the OPI, then you have to get the call correct. The ref on the sidelines decided to not call the OPI, and then he is the one to call a touchdown. Horrible vision problems. The on-field call was wrong, so the review couldn't overturn that without clear evidence.

I don't know if this is going to make Goodell talk to the owners and get this ref thing done. Are people boycotting games? Are players sitting games out? The players are all pissed, but Goodell honestly couldn't give a shit. The NFL is still making billions, so why the fuck should they change? Fans, players, etc... aren't giving them a reason to change.

TJ Lang was awesome on Twitter last night. Good stuff.

I agree with you and Habs. I was shocked when I saw the score in the 4th quarter when I got home from work. I thought for sure the Packers would blow out Seattle. Maybe the ref needs glasses? TJ Lang earned my follow for that reason lol. Epic. It shouldn't be about money it should be about protecting the integrity of the game but I agree that until there is a boycott(not gonna happen) nothing will change.

 

[Slyfox696]

The Packers didn't get screwed, and you're just being ridiculous if you say so. Did the Packers suffer a call that didn't go their way, but maybe should have? Okay, that's fair. But it's not the referees fault the Packers gave up EIGHT sacks in the first half. It's not the referees fault the Packers only scored 12 points. It's not the referees fault the Packers couldn't stop Lynch on 4th and 2 in the drive previous, nor is it the referees fault the Packers couldn't get a first down at the end of the game to seal the win.

Oh, and let's not forget the phantom pass interference called on the Seahawks on 3rd and 2, which helped lead to the only touchdown the Packers scored.

The referees didn't cost the Packers the game. That's such a childish mentality. Were the referees bad? Yes, but they were equally bad both ways. To say the referees "screwed" a team is to say that the referees intentionally cost a team the game (which is laughable, to the best of our knowledge) or that the referees called the game decidedly in the favor of one team or the other, which is simply not true from last night, considering the Seahawks actually had 4 more penalties than the Packers.

Personally, I don't think it was even that bad of a call, I think it's a defendable call, and once it goes to the replay booth, nothing can be done about it. But to say the Packers got screwed is just ridiculous.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I agree with Sly in most games. Especially with these refs. They make many bad calls both ways, so to say this was especially egregious is an overstatement. Anyone could make an argument that this bad call plus that bad call, corrected, would've added up to Seattle winning without controversy.

The real problem here, in my eyes, is the ref likely being so distracted by watching the ball fly through the air that he missed the clear offensive pass interference on the play. It's one thing to let the players decide the game, especially on the last play of the game. It's another thing to completely let go an excessive penalty like that.

These refs, at heart, are still more fans than employees. Until the luster wears off and the obvious experience over time, calls like this will continue to happen. Now when it gets into the playoffs and stuff like this happens, then there's going to be a lot of people up in arms. Doesn't matter though, because those people will still watch the games keeping Goodell firmly in his position of power. As long as people watch, he has all the leverage.

It's starting to turn into a "train wreck" type scenario anyways.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I looked at the replay a few times and I may have come around to the conclusion that the catch should have went to Tate. If a catch is still defined as having control of the ball while both feet touch the ground, then Tate had both hands on the ball before Jennings' left foot came down.

 

[Davi323]

I looked at the replay a few times and I may have come around to the conclusion that the catch should have went to Tate. If a catch is still defined as having control of the ball while both feet touch the ground, then Tate had both hands on the ball before Jennings' left foot came down.

This why I refuse to completely lambast the officials. I still think they were wrong, and completely missed the offensive pass interference, but, given the whole "completing the process" for a ball caught in the endzone, (as a Lions fan, it's something that I am intimately aware of), a case can be made that by the time the "process" was finished, both men had possession of the ball, in which case the advantage goes to the offense. Now, obviously the correctly called pass interference call would have ended the game since it would have been an offensive penalty and not a defensive penalty, but few people are as focused on that as they are on the catch itself.

I don't completely buy that argument, but it's the possibility that it could be applied here that prevents me from going 100% against them. Should the Packers have won that game? Absolutely. But they should have won because of the blatant pass interference the refs missed, making the ruling about who caught the ball completely irrelevant.

Basically, the missed pass interference was a more egregious mistake than the blown call regarding possession of the catch. But there is also something to the whole "don't put yourself in a place where the refs can cost you a game" mentality. Last year's Packers wouldn't have been in that situation, because they would have been up by 3-4 TDs.

 

[Lowdown]

Habs said it. The Packers put themselves in position for this. If they had made adjustments on offense earlier, this wouldn't have been necessary. Now yes, the call was obviously blown. If you're going to say "screw it" to the OPI, then you have to get the call correct. The ref on the sidelines decided to not call the OPI, and then he is the one to call a touchdown. Horrible vision problems. The on-field call was wrong, so the review couldn't overturn that without clear evidence.

I don't know if this is going to make Goodell talk to the owners and get this ref thing done. Are people boycotting games? Are players sitting games out? The players are all pissed, but Goodell honestly couldn't give a shit. The NFL is still making billions, so why the fuck should they change? Fans, players, etc... aren't giving them a reason to change.

TJ Lang was awesome on Twitter last night. Good stuff.

The Pack did get the shaft last night. No question about this. Like everyone on Sportscenter and the post game stated that it was clearly an interception. I'm biased to a degree, but as a Packers fan they gave up ass in the first half. Eight sacks is beyond too much to give up. Close games like this are almost bound to be decided by the refs. This type of shit happens a lot in NBA games. So yes, the Packers put themselves in that position. But the officials are at fault for blown calls or just asinine ones, like the roughing the passer call that nullified the first INT in the fourth quarter.

 

[shattered dreams]

I looked at the replay a few times and I may have come around to the conclusion that the catch should have went to Tate. If a catch is still defined as having control of the ball while both feet touch the ground, then Tate had both hands on the ball before Jennings' left foot came down.

I wish people would read the NFL rule on simultaneous possession.

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

Notice the use of control instead of the term possession.

 

[Akhilleus]

The Packers didn't get screwed, and you're just being ridiculous if you say so. Did the Packers suffer a call that didn't go their way, but maybe should have? Okay, that's fair. But it's not the referees fault the Packers gave up EIGHT sacks in the first half. It's not the referees fault the Packers only scored 12 points. It's not the referees fault the Packers couldn't stop Lynch on 4th and 2 in the drive previous, nor is it the referees fault the Packers couldn't get a first down at the end of the game to seal the win.

Oh, and let's not forget the phantom pass interference called on the Seahawks on 3rd and 2, which helped lead to the only touchdown the Packers scored.

The referees didn't cost the Packers the game. That's such a childish mentality. Were the referees bad? Yes, but they were equally bad both ways. To say the referees "screwed" a team is to say that the referees intentionally cost a team the game (which is laughable, to the best of our knowledge) or that the referees called the game decidedly in the favor of one team or the other, which is simply not true from last night, considering the Seahawks actually had 4 more penalties than the Packers.

Personally, I don't think it was even that bad of a call, I think it's a defendable call, and once it goes to the replay booth, nothing can be done about it. But to say the Packers got screwed is just ridiculous.

You couldn't have been more spot on. The pass interference call was one of the worsts I've ever seen, and it completely changed the momentum of the game around.

But the one thing I think the refs did do wrong, was they made a call before huddling. They ended up making two different calls on the field, and it's what made people so confused and angry. If they would have both huddled together and determined whether or not it was a touchdown or penalty, than I think people would have been a lot less outraged, and maybe even a little bit more confident the call was right.

But while the Packers did get lucky with the pass interference call, the Seahawks messed up too. They had the chance to kick a field goal on fourth down, but they went for it instead. They ended up having to again go for it on fourth down even closer to the goal line, but instead of kicking the field goal they have to go for it. They didn't have enough faith in their defense, so they went for it instead of kicking a field goal.

Then it turned out their defense WAS able to hold them, and they did get the ball back. If they would have kicked the field goal, they could have won the game with another field goal.

 

[Steve0904]

This is sad really, because everybody wanted a real reason to hate the replacements refs short of making bad calls throughout a game which NFL refs do anyway, and now they've got one. Which is about 99.9% of the reason why the real refs will be back tonight. I'm neutral when it comes to the Packers and Seahaws btw.

People can say what they want about how the Packers should've scored more than 12 points, but the same could be said for the Seahawks as well. They won this game scoring 14 points, but you won't be winning many games scoring that many points either. I won't say the Packers got screwed because there was a bad PI call that led to GB's only TD, but the wrong call was made, and at a game deciding juncture everything is magnified.

There was a shove in the endzone. Not to mention the fact that it should've been an INT anyway. And then you have one ref who calls for a touchback and the other calls it a TD, the latter of which came just tenths of a second before the former, and all without a conference of any sort.

It's like saying the Packers have 13 games to fix this, but it could've already cost them dearly. Just because they should've scored more than 12 pts against the Seahawks and not found themselves in that position to begin with doesn't make the call right. If this call had come at the end of the season and cost the Packers (or any other team) a playoff spot this would be a much bigger deal than it already is.