Taken from Sherdog. I'm actually looking forward to this match up. Ortiz Vs. Griffin 1 was a fine fight which ended in a split decision in Tito's favor. Personally I felt Forrest clearly won that fight, but it's the nature of split decisions, and now he has a chance to avenge that lose. In their first fight Forrest showed better stand up then Tito, and while Tito got Forrest down and dominated him in the first round, in the second and third Forrest showed fantastic takedown defense and sprawling. That was 3 years ago, and since then Forrest has in my opinion improved everywhere in his fighting. Showing a improved ground by submitting Shogun(even though he wasn't healthy for that fight apparently) and showing decent striking against Rampage. Now while there's excuses everywhere for both of those wins of his, at the end of the day a win is a win. Tito on the other hand has been out of the cage for more then a year, and is coming back from surgery. While I doubt Tito will show up like the Tito of old, even if the old Tito shows up, I think the Griffin of today can still beat him. Forrest has shown great takedown defense against Tito before, and now is more dangerous off his back if Tito still gets him down, and in their first fight Forrest was getting the better of Tito on the feet, and I still see that happening. I think Forrest will take this one by Decision. Looking forward to this.
Ortiz Vs. Griffin 2
- Thread starter Marquis
- Start date
I'm not surprised by this at all. I thought he was one of the top options, along with Jardine and Wandy.
Anyway, very much looking forward to it. I thought the first fight was awesome. I disagree with Marquis that Forrest "clearly won" the first fight. I've watched that fight probably about 5 times, and even though Forrest won the stand-up battle and the 2nd Round, Tito clearly won the 1st. The 3rd Round, while close, I thought Tito still won. Forrest didn't dominate the stand-up in that round as NONE of his shots dazed Tito whatsoever, and Tito, while he didn't technically land as many shots as Forrest, still landed a few good shots to make it where it had to be close on the judges score card. And then that takedown Tito got towards the end of the round sealed the win for him. Forrest says so himself, and I completely agree with him.
As far as their fight in November... should be a good one. Tito has been working with Freddie Roach (who trains Manny Pacquiao, for those who don't know) on his stand-up, and I think it'll show in this fight. I think Tito improving his stand-up will make him a much better fighter. I mean, I don't think he's going to be Anderson Silva on the feet, but I think he'll be MUCH better striking-wise than the Tito we saw fight Chuck Liddell and Forrest Griffin. Plus, becoming a better boxer opens up the takedown a lot more.
Unfortunately, even though they're both huge guys for the Light Heavyweight Division, neither have knockout power. I never got that, especially with Forrest, but yeah.... since they don't, I see this being another 3 Round war like the first fight, except this time Tito getting a unanimous decision rather than a split. If Tito shows up to the fight like I expect him to, then I just see him completely overwhelming Forrest. Forrest not having knockout power in his hands is what fucks him up as a fighter, and this will probably just be another case of that.
Anyway, very much looking forward to it. I thought the first fight was awesome. I disagree with Marquis that Forrest "clearly won" the first fight. I've watched that fight probably about 5 times, and even though Forrest won the stand-up battle and the 2nd Round, Tito clearly won the 1st. The 3rd Round, while close, I thought Tito still won. Forrest didn't dominate the stand-up in that round as NONE of his shots dazed Tito whatsoever, and Tito, while he didn't technically land as many shots as Forrest, still landed a few good shots to make it where it had to be close on the judges score card. And then that takedown Tito got towards the end of the round sealed the win for him. Forrest says so himself, and I completely agree with him.
As far as their fight in November... should be a good one. Tito has been working with Freddie Roach (who trains Manny Pacquiao, for those who don't know) on his stand-up, and I think it'll show in this fight. I think Tito improving his stand-up will make him a much better fighter. I mean, I don't think he's going to be Anderson Silva on the feet, but I think he'll be MUCH better striking-wise than the Tito we saw fight Chuck Liddell and Forrest Griffin. Plus, becoming a better boxer opens up the takedown a lot more.
Unfortunately, even though they're both huge guys for the Light Heavyweight Division, neither have knockout power. I never got that, especially with Forrest, but yeah.... since they don't, I see this being another 3 Round war like the first fight, except this time Tito getting a unanimous decision rather than a split. If Tito shows up to the fight like I expect him to, then I just see him completely overwhelming Forrest. Forrest not having knockout power in his hands is what fucks him up as a fighter, and this will probably just be another case of that.
A Ortiz fan disagreeing that Forrest didn't win that fight? Shocker.
Neither landed shots that rattled or dazed each other. So it comes down to who landed more shots, and that was Forrest. Forrest also managed to buckle Tito's leg with a leg kick.
Forrest landed more "good shots", along with 5 leg kicks in the third round.
Forrest defended 3 takedowns in the third round, Tito got 1 takedown in near the end which Forrest managed to scramble out of, so he didn't even dominate him on the ground in the third. 3 defended takedowns > 1 takedown.
@ this coming from a Forrest fan, and a Tito hater. 
Also, those three judges weren't Tito Ortiz fans I'm sure.
How many more shots, exactly? He didn't dominate the stand-up, dude.
Big whoop.
None of the shots were really "good" though. I mean, seriously... they were basically pats, like Nick Diaz's punches. Except, you know... Diaz's punches actually cause damage. None of Forrest's punches did anything to Tito. It's like I said... for some strange reason. Forrest just doesn't have any power in his punches, even though he's so big, strong, and technically sound. It's quite unbelievable when you think about it.
Judges have never counted takedown defense in a fight. Never. So why would they start with Tito vs. Forrest?
And let's say you're right about Forrest winning the 3rd Round (which you're not), then the fight could have then easily ended in a draw, since it could be argued that Tito had a 10-8 first round, with him completely dominating Forrest nearly the entire 5 minutes.
Forrest doesn't even make my top 5 of favorite fighters. Also I don't let fanism delude me
Also, those three judges weren't Tito Ortiz fans I'm sure.
.I'm sure the judge that scored that fight 30-27 in Tito's favor was a fan.
By my count Forrest got 17 clean shots in, while Tito got 8. Fight metric also scores Forrest getting 22 more shots in then Tito in total.
It is a big deal considering it's the closest thing to getting dazed or rattled.
All you just said here can also be said about Tito's shots in that fight. Neither seriously damaged the other on the feet. That's why it comes down to who landed more, which was Forrest.
Wouldn't it go under controlling? Since Forrest was dictating the fight. Tito wanted it on the ground, Forrest said fuck no and snuffed his takedowns.
The third round was close, the 2nd round Forrest won by a significant margin I feel. He snuffed ALL of Tito's takedowns and won the stand up. I would call that round one sided in Forrest's favor. He may have not landed significant damage, since neither really did, but he should have won that round 2 one sided in points. Damage isn't everything apparently, Lyoto has proven that. It's just how much you land.
Forrest doesn't even make my top 5 of favorite fighters. Also I don't let fanism delude me
Neither do I. It's not like I'm saying Tito deserved the decision when he fought Lyoto Machida and Randy Couture. This was a very close fight, and I genuinely feel the right person won. You put Dan Henderson in Tito's place and Rashad Evans in Forrest's place... I would still have the same opinion that Henderson should have won.
Hmm.... I would like to see what that judge did in other Tito decisions. But yeah... that fight definitely wasn't 30-27. I could understand a 29-27 decision (giving Tito a 10-8 score in the 1st), but to say Tito won the 2nd is ridiculous.
That's still not a lot of strikes for a 15 minute fight, especially when they aren't causing damage. At least Tito was active the whole fight. Forrest was passive for the most part, avoiding the takedown. You and I both know the judges favor the aggressor.
Dude, it's a leg kick. Judges won't pay any mind to that unless it makes someone fall or makes them back up and grab it or something like that.
I agree Tito didn't cause any damage on the feet, but he fucked Forrest up pretty good in the 1st Round. Shit, that's all he would have needed to have gotten a decision in PRIDE, lol.
Fair enough point, but I still think judges pay more attention to the aggressor than they do the person who's on the defense nearly the entire fight.
I agree Forrest clearly won the 2nd Round as well, but it wasn't nearly as dominate as Tito in the 1st Round. Tito at least caused some damage in the 1st Round. All Forrest did was pat and run.
Machida's different, because he doesn't get hit or taken down AT ALL. Also, his shots are damaging. He's dropped plenty of fighters, and he also took Tito down (something Forrest should have done in the 1st fight, which would have gotten him the win).
Oh boy.......Cant we all just be friends? As for the topic at hand. I believe that Tito won the first fight as well. It was incredible close but when I think back on the fight Tito just did to much dominating of Forrest in round won and Forrest was to inexperienced to catch up for the rest of the fight. If this rematch actually does come true (not that I dont believe you but I havent been on ufc.com and until I see it there I dont take it as legit) I think that it will be another very close fight but in the end I think that Tito has spent to much time away from the cage and Forrest has improved by great leaps and bounds. Tito will get unnamously defeated in the fight of the night.
Edit: I just went to ufc.com and it is on there so I am that much more excited for it. Should be a great fight.
Edit: I just went to ufc.com and it is on there so I am that much more excited for it. Should be a great fight.
Well Henderson and Evans are both people I don't see how someone can hate or dislike, but I still what you're getting at.
Neither caused significant damage, but Forrest buckling his leg is some form of significant damage, and should count got a lot more then it's given credit since it shows he has some serious power in those leg kicks. Also when Forrest avoided the takedown, he followed up with a few shots. So I would say he was just as aggressive for doing that, and looked better because he defended 9 Tito takedowns in round 2 and 3 combined.
Um Tito looked like he was about to fall and lost his balance. You're telling me the Judges wouldn't notice when for the first time in the whole fight someone came close to getting dropped?
Well sadly for us we don't go by Japanese rules. And yes, he did fuck him up good, that's why he hands down won round 1.
Well Tito shot for 12 takedowns in total. How aggressive can you be when he shoots for that many takedowns? At least Forrest still managed to stay aggressive even though having to snuff so many takedowns and worry about them. He caught Tito on the way up from the takedown, and always came forward with strikes, Tito was the one who was less aggressive on the feet, trying to block more. He even looked winded in the third.
Well pat and run is very effective and does win points on the scorecard.
Since joining the UFC he has only dropped 2 fighters, before that he was this boring decision machine that a lot of fans hated. And yes even though he didn't get hit often, the point was that it was thought at first he had no real power, and was just tapping and running. Which even though not true, it still won him points those taps. Another example is Bisping Vs Leben. Did Bisping hurt Leben at all? I doubt it, he still won the fight with those "taps". And in that fight they both caught each other a few times.
bealzer1010
Stay Blunted
Shit, just scarp Tito/Forest and let Marquis and Saracen go at it!!
Glad to see this fight, I personally would much rather watch Forest fight Tito than Coleman. This should be a good battle if ring rust doesnt play a factor for Tito. I like Forest in a decision!
Glad to see this fight, I personally would much rather watch Forest fight Tito than Coleman. This should be a good battle if ring rust doesnt play a factor for Tito. I like Forest in a decision!