One-Dimensional Isn't So Bad

[wrestlingfan]

So In MMA, there lies too types of fighters, The Hybrid Fighter that is complete in all forms of Stand-Up, Clinch, and Ground. Master in striking and grappling, basically what some call the true mixed martial artist, (Georges St-Pierre, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones) though most fighters even when complete still rely on one style or prefer one. Then there's one dimensional fighters, (Paul Daley, Brett Rogers, Jake Shields) Those who come into the game, with their style they were born and raised in, and even refuse to adapt. But One-Dimensional fighters aren't so bad, They give a sense of uniqueness, to the sport and to themselves. Honestly would you tune into MMA, if all fighters were George St-Pierres (not exactly on his skill level but hybrids of all styles)

Your Thoughts?

 

[JWGunslinger]

If you want to be safe and smart, then one dimensional is definitely bad. It's very simple and it's what everyone realized after the early UFC events when it was nothing but clashing of styles. In MMA today you need to be well versed in every kind of relevant fighting, because the majority of mixed martial artists are those "Hybrid" fighters you're talking about, some may tend to go to a certain aspect of their game more than the rest but that is just their strongest offense, they still have their other strategies and can use them effectively when needed.
If you look at those one dimensional fighters you mentioned, all of them have have been beaten because of their lack of one element of the game.

Paul Daley: Did you see UFC 113? Because of Paul Daley's complete lack of any kind of ground game he was soundly whipped by Josh Koscheck for 3 rounds.

Jake Sheilds: Sheilds atleast has worked on his stand up a bit, but aside from some very basic standup all he has in his arsenal is his ground game, it is awesome enough that he doesnt really ever need anything else. However if Sheilds had good standup he would have without a doubt beaten GSP at UFC 129, even with his basic strking he managed to bust the champ up, he would have won if he weren't "One Dimensional".

Brett Rogers: This guy is a great example, because he is a one dimensional as you can get. He has literally nothing but his punches. If someone wants to beat him, simply take him down and you have the fight won. Watch Josh Barnett dismantle Rogers and see that being one dimensional is a deathwish against someone who is skilled in an area that you haven't trained.

Fighters can still be unique while being knowledgable in all aspects of the sport, they're just smarter because they know if they have one strength and someone attacks them where they're weak they will fall. These days if you want to be a mixed martial atrist, the best are always well rounded.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Well Shields busting GSP at UFC 129 that may've been Sheilds poking at GSP's eye.
Even though it's smart I just think if we saw so many hybrid fighters MMA, would be boring. Also one-dimensional fighters don't necessarily have to be Hybrids too. A One-Dimensional fighter can make it in MMA if they have 1. their discipline they're good in (obviously thats their one dimension) and 2. Defense in all other areas.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Well Shields busting GSP at UFC 129 that may've been Sheilds poking at GSP's eye.
Even though it's smart I just think if we saw so many hybrid fighters MMA, would be boring. Also one-dimensional fighters don't necessarily have to be Hybrids too. A One-Dimensional fighter can make it in MMA if they have 1. their discipline they're good in (obviously thats their one dimension) and 2. Defense in all other areas.

No buddy i'm not talking about the eye poke, i'm talking about Shields coming out of that fight looking fine and GSP's nose busted up and face beaten and bruised.

Back to the subject of Hybrid fighters, that is what the majority of the UFC and the MMA world is made up of these days. Yes you can find success in MMA by being very good at one disipline, but whenever you come across a guy who's strongest area of the game is one you don't have then you're screwed. Like Paul Daley who has exellent stand up, but one he's taken to the ground it doesn't matter if he's one of the best welterweights on the feet does it?
And if someone focuses on standup for example but they practice defense in all other areas, they are not one dimensional. You said yourself that your definition of the one dimensional fighter was "Those who come into the game, with their style they were born and raised in, and even refuse to adapt.", but I would say that training defense in all other areas is the definition of adaptation in MMA.

 

[wrestlingfan]

No buddy i'm not talking about the eye poke, i'm talking about Shields coming out of that fight looking fine and GSP's nose busted up and face beaten and bruised.

Back to the subject of Hybrid fighters, that is what the majority of the UFC and the MMA world is made up of these days. Yes you can find success in MMA by being very good at one disipline, but whenever you come across a guy who's strongest area of the game is one you don't have then you're screwed. Like Paul Daley who has exellent stand up, but one he's taken to the ground it doesn't matter if he's one of the best welterweights on the feet does it?
And if someone focuses on standup for example but they practice defense in all other areas, they are not one dimensional. You said yourself that your definition of the one dimensional fighter was "Those who come into the game, with their style they were born and raised in, and even refuse to adapt.", but I would say that training defense in all other areas is the definition of adaptation in MMA.

Well there's only a full fully Hybrids such as GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva. Most fighters have combinations such as:

Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Boxing, Wrestling
Boxing, BJJ
Kickboxing, BJJ
Kickboxing, Wrestling

And then there's triples.

And the GSP subject well, GSP again chose not to fully strike with Shields. Sheilds just chose to keep jabbing, if GSP actually chose to go full assault it would've been over for Shields.

I understand that there shouldn't be one dimensional fighters but having everyone be a GSP, We lose a sense of uniqueness.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Well there's only a full fully Hybrids such as GSP, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva. Most fighters have combinations such as:

Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Boxing, Wrestling
Boxing, BJJ
Kickboxing, BJJ
Kickboxing, Wrestling

And then there's triples.

And the GSP subject well, GSP again chose not to fully strike with Shields. Sheilds just chose to keep jabbing, if GSP actually chose to go full assault it would've been over for Shields.

I understand that there shouldn't be one dimensional fighters but having everyone be a GSP, We lose a sense of uniqueness.

I could give you a list including more than half of the UFC's roster with guys who are fully rounded fighters. As for your idea of most fighters only studying two or 3 disiplines, those are their bases. Those are the styles they center their arsenal around, they still train other styles and techniques. Your examples of "Hybrids" are the same, Jon Jones's bases are Greco-Roman Wrestling and Muay Thai, he trains in tons of other disiplines but those are what he branches from. Anderson's bases are Muay Thai and BJJ, and GSP's are Kyokushin Karate and Wrestling. Every fighter has a base, it doesn't mean they aren't versed in other forms of martial arts.

That's true but i'm not talkling about GSP, i'm talking about Shields and his stand up. My point is that if Jake was more well rounded and had better stand up he could have beaten Georges. The fact that GSP had a bad fight is not the focus of what i'm saying, but if he wasn't off that night he would have probably put Shields and his robotic stand up away, which further proves my point.

 

[wrestlingfan]

But some fighters stick to their bases, For example BJ Penn for a while was just a pure Boxing and BJJ guy and still is. Yes he trains in wrestling but is still a base, Okay the argument is over, I'm pretty much agreeing with you now.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Yes, that's wat i'm saying...Hey, I understand what you were going for with the thread, and you can have success being really good at one thing but without training every aspect of the game today you have a huge hole that your opponent can take advantage of.
You seem like you're really into MMA and that's great especially considering that you're somewhat new to MMA. Just keep researching and learning, then you'll be a force to be reckoned with in the forum.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Yes, that's wat i'm saying...Hey, I understand what you were going for with the thread, and you can have success being really good at one thing but without training every aspect of the game today you have a huge hole that your opponent can take advantage of.
You seem like you're really into MMA and that's great especially considering that you're somewhat new to MMA. Just keep researching and learning, then you'll be a force to be reckoned with in the forum.

That's what I'm trying, To be a force to reckoned with in both Wrestling and MMA, and even side topics such as The Cigar Lounge, Music & Movies and Televesion.

And yeah I've been researching MMA, and have a knowledge of it to the point where I fully grasp the Contenders and On The Cusp of each UFC Division, and have a knowledge of Strikeforce and Bellator also.

 

[Fizzy]

So In MMA, there lies too types of fighters, The Hybrid Fighter that is complete in all forms of Stand-Up, Clinch, and Ground. Master in striking and grappling, basically what some call the true mixed martial artist, (Georges St-Pierre, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones) though most fighters even when complete still rely on one style or prefer one. Then there's one dimensional fighters, (Paul Daley, Brett Rogers, Jake Shields) Those who come into the game, with their style they were born and raised in, and even refuse to adapt. But One-Dimensional fighters aren't so bad, They give a sense of uniqueness, to the sport and to themselves. Honestly would you tune into MMA, if all fighters were George St-Pierres (not exactly on his skill level but hybrids of all styles)

Your Thoughts?

Yes, I would tune in to a UFC that has all complete fighters instead if ones with GAPING holes in their game. Fights would actually be competitive instead of getting GSP outclassing Dan Hardy for twenty five minutes. It's fucking terrible when you have one guy who is great at everything and one guy who succeeds at one specific thing. We'd see wars in every fight and in every area of a fight if everybody was great at all aspects. That's more entertaining than seeing one guy get his weaknesses exposed in every fight. The sport would be a better sport if everybody had a complete skill set and you'd be stupid to say otherwise.

 

[CHIEFCAPRI]

IN MY OPINION, STRIKING IS STRIKING, AND GRAPPLING IS GRAPPLING. YOU BRING THOSE TWO TOGETHER AND YOU GOT AN ALL-ROUND FIGHTER.

ALL MMA FIGHTER TRAIN IN BOTH AREAS BUT SOME JUST FOCUS ON THEIR GREAT POINTS OF EXPERTISE.

FOR INSTANCE, QUINTON "RAMPAGE" JACKSON TRAINS IN BOTH STRIKING AND GRAPPLING HEAVILY, BUT HIS MAIN SPECIAL IS HIS WRESTLING.

WHERE, GSP IS GOOD IN MANY STRIKING AND GRAPPLING STYLES (LIKE WRESTLING, KARATE, BJJ, MUAI THAI) HE MAKES IT ALL FLOW AS ONE COMPLETE WEAPON. BUT SOME SEEM TO THINK HE'S A HEAVY WRESTLER WITH DECENT STANDUP.

 

[wrestlingfan]

IN MY OPINION, STRIKING IS STRIKING, AND GRAPPLING IS GRAPPLING. YOU BRING THOSE TWO TOGETHER AND YOU GOT AN ALL-ROUND FIGHTER.

ALL MMA FIGHTER TRAIN IN BOTH AREAS BUT SOME JUST FOCUS ON THEIR GREAT POINTS OF EXPERTISE.

FOR INSTANCE, QUINTON "RAMPAGE" JACKSON TRAINS IN BOTH STRIKING AND GRAPPLING HEAVILY, BUT HIS MAIN SPECIAL IS HIS WRESTLING.

WHERE, GSP IS GOOD IN MANY STRIKING AND GRAPPLING STYLES (LIKE WRESTLING, KARATE, BJJ, MUAI THAI) HE MAKES IT ALL FLOW AS ONE COMPLETE WEAPON. BUT SOME SEEM TO THINK HE'S A HEAVY WRESTLER WITH DECENT STANDUP.

Because GSP's speciality is his wrestling, Also and Rampage speciality is his striking, He just uses wrestling as a backup.

Yes, I would tune in to a UFC that has all complete fighters instead if ones with GAPING holes in their game. Fights would actually be competitive instead of getting GSP outclassing Dan Hardy for twenty five minutes. It's fucking terrible when you have one guy who is great at everything and one guy who succeeds at one specific thing. We'd see wars in every fight and in every area of a fight if everybody was great at all aspects. That's more entertaining than seeing one guy get his weaknesses exposed in every fight. The sport would be a better sport if everybody had a complete skill set and you'd be stupid to say otherwise.

I don't think you understand what I was saying, I see your point but if we had all GSP type fighters, MMA would be boring in a way, There wouldn't be any uniqueness with each fighter.