Old School UFC vs Current Day

[scottyshowman82]

Do you prefer the style of the first few years in the UFC with likes of Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock and Tank Abbott or prefer UFC now with the weight classes and more advanced rules.

Personally I don't know what it was but back in the day guys like Royce, and Shamrock and Severn, just had this bad ass aura and mentalityabout them. Old school UFC looked like a Jean-Claude Van Damme, like Blood Sport. With the limited rules it made the promotion seem like an outlaw and people were legitametely frightened and up in arms about it. It had these tough mean dudes looking to be the alpha male and break your jaw, suplex you on your head and make you tap in shame.

Well something haven't changed but the things that have are amazing. I just love the fact that UFC can go to Japan and Austalia and Brazil and sell out the shows. I think it's awesome that they have guys on the roster who are very good for each of those markets. Different people from all different sides of the world brought together for their love of fighting. It's so awesome especially considering where they came from.

I love current day UFC and can't wait to see what they do next but I think if i had to pick I just have too many fond memories form early UFC.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.

 

[BaconBits]

I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

And you'd be broke. Even under OG UFC rules, most of today's fighters stomp Royce Gracie with ease. Everybody Royce fought in those days was very one dimensional. It's not like that anymore. Remember Royce's fight with Matt Hughes? Yeah, it would look like that, only worse.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

The original UFCs were basically an extended informercial for the Gracies. They were instrumental in finding many of the fighters for the early tournaments, and they made damn sure they didn't get anybody that knew how to handle jiu jitsu.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

False. His competition started to get better better. They started to evolve. Royce didn't. His tremendous ego wouldn't let him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

I don't mind the ground game at all. Guys like Weidman, Maia, either of the Diaz brothers, Jacare... They are brilliant on the ground. They don't get stood up because they don't take long rest breaks like Royce did. Oh, and before you say I don;t know what I am talking about about the rest breaks... I have a purple belt.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.

Most of fights in the old days were far from real fights. Most of them were set up to make the Gracie family look good. They had a vested financial interest in making sure Royce looked good. If you notice, when Royce started looking not so great, he took his roided-up ball and went home to fight nobodies.

 

[scottyshowman82]

On Gracie, I think that he could beat anybody back in the day. I think Gracie is his prime now would be overwhelmed by the welter weights of today. The sport has evolved.
That's another thing I liked about Old School UFC everyone was more unique, they came out in they're their jeans and gees and boxing shorts it really felt like as I said a Van-Damm movie. With the evolution of the sport and the knowledge that you need a ground and standing game to survive a lot of guys look the same. And styles make fights. They all wear the same tights. I wish they had a bit more personality to them but I guess they want to resemble boxing more than pro wrestling they're doing the right thing.

I'm with you guys on "boring ground game thing." I know in the end entertaining fights sell tickets and it can be not so exciting to a guy lay on another guy but it takes time to put on submission or wait for your opportunity to put on one. Joe Rogan has even said said during fights that he didn't believe that the refs should have broke up the holds so fast. Let them wrestle, let them do their thing I say. That's apart of MMA to me. If you want to watch people just punch and kick watch Kickboxing it's MMA, brother.

 

[Fizzy]

I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

His own brother would beat him in a street fight. Rickson would beat Royce in a real fight, Saku would beat Royce in a street fight, Nick Diaz would easily beat Royce in a destruction. It wouldn't even be competitive enough to label a "fight," Hughes would beat him, BJ Penn would beat him, even Matt Serra would beat him. I could go on, but you get my point. That's an incredibly silly statement you made.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

No, he would not catch everybody no matter who they were. Royce's BJJ only looked good against novice ground fighters. He is far from the best in his own family and wasn't even the Gracie family champion when he was in the UFC. In a no rules fight you cannot tell me that Royce would beat Overeem or Werdum or Overeem. Royce wouldn't beat Ian McCall in a street fight. You are overrating the guy so much like he is the end all be all fighter because he tapped out guys who didn't know what an armbar was. In fact, with 100% confidence, I would say that Alexander Karelin, the greatest amateur wrestler of all time who competed in the Olympics during Royce's prime, would easily murder Royce in a street fight. Believe me, Royce was never as good as you make him out to be.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

No, no, no, no. In a real fight setting, Karelin would break Royce with one arm behind his back. In a real setting, Matt Hughes would slam him on his head. Again, you overrate Royce so much it's laughable.

I love the Gracie family and say proudly that I am an absolute Gracie family mark. Rickson is my hero and i've watched videos and read about their family for years. That said, I won't sit here and act like Royce, who is often regarded as the least talented of Helio's sons could beat every fighter in the world in a street fight. His time has passed, fighters have evolved. Sure, he beat everybody in the UFC, but nobody besides Ken Shamrock has any idea of what the ground game was. That is where his BJJ was most effective, against novices. Hell, he got beat in a no time limit, no rules fight against Saku. Actually, Saku toyed with Royce and easily beat him. What you are saying simply is not true.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

A big reason Sak beat Royce was because they had rounds(stand ups).

Thats cool that you guys disagree, but I still think you could take Matt Hughes, Overeem, or anybody that you want to and put them in the UFC II-IV tournament, and Royce still wins it.

And Rickson Gracie never fought anybody even half as good as the guys Royce fought.

In a real fight setting, I'm sure Royce would be able to use just about whatever it took to get the job done. People forget that Gracie's family mastered traditional Japanese Ju Jitsu, which was born on battlefields, and had specific techniques for fighting dirty(hair pulling, eye gouging, fishhooking, small joint manipulation, groin strikes etc).

Gracie fought the most dangerous man on the planet in his prime, and had there not been any interferance, I think Royce would have eventually caught Shamrock in their fight at UFC V. It may have been an hour, or even 2, but sooner or later he was going to catch Ken Shamrock if they would have just let them fight without a timelimit, and no stand ups(like a real fight). Shamrock didn't have the patience(you could see he was getting frustrated too, just about when they stood the fight up for the first time, you could see the frustration in his eyes). The way they stood that fight up for restarts completely eliminated Royce's methodical, subtle, patient way of grappling. That was why he walked away. That was a big part of his fighting style.

Ken Shamrock was without a doubt the pound for pound best fighter on the planet at the time of that fight.

No big deal guys, just an opinion from someone that loves some old school Gracie. Some of you guys take shit a bit too seriously. Relax, its just the internet.

 

[Fizzy]

A big reason Sak beat Royce was because they had rounds(stand ups).

The reason Sak beat Royce was because Sak was better.

Thats cool that you guys disagree, but I still think you could take Matt Hughes, Overeem, or anybody that you want to and put them in the UFC II-IV tournament, and Royce still wins it.

Explain how. If you think Royce would submit Overeem, you're just plain stupid. Royce wouldn't even come close to getting Overeem to the ground. Another guy I have never brought up is Kimura; the guy who utterly dominated Helio Gracie. In a street fight, he'd dump Royce on his head in half a second and render him unconscious. There are so many examples as to guys who would beat Royce in a real fight, you're just to ignorant to realize it.

And Rickson Gracie never fought anybody even half as good as the guys Royce fought.

I'd say Masakatsu Funaki was just as good, if not better than 95% of Royce's opponents seeing as he has beaten Ken and Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutton, Guy Mezger, and Semmy Schilt. In fact, i'd say Masakatsu Funaki was better than everybody Royce fought. The only guy who has an argument as being better than Funaki is Ken Shamrock because he beat him twice.

Gracie fought the most dangerous man on the planet in his prime, and had there not been any interferance, I think Royce would have eventually caught Shamrock in their fight at UFC V. It may have been an hour, or even 2, but sooner or later he was going to catch Ken Shamrock if they would have just let them fight without a timelimit, and no stand ups(like a real fight). Shamrock didn't have the patience(you could see he was getting frustrated too, just about when they stood the fight up for the first time, you could see the frustration in his eyes). The way they stood that fight up for restarts completely eliminated Royce's methodical, subtle, patient way of grappling. That was why he walked away. That was a big part of his fighting style.

The fact that you buy into the "most dangerous man on the planet" bullshit is laughable. Alexander Karelin was the most dangerous man on the planet at the time and it really isn't debatable. He would have destroyed Ken and Royce at the same time.

Point is, you clearly are spouting off such bullshit that I am having a tough time believing that you actually believe it. You say you love old school MMA, go take a look at Alexander Karelin and tell me you actually believe Royce would beat him in a fight.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

They could do it man! Anything is possible.

We will never know!!!!!!!

Its all fantasy matchup fun!!!!!

I just like the old school stuff man, and I dont think it is so cut and dry that it was all futile to the gods of mma today. If somebody has a good night, and they are in the zone, sometimes it doesn't matter who. I don't think anybody would have beaten Royce at UFC II. He had some serious fire in his eyes, and he was fighting for so much. You could take anybody, Anderson Silva, Kerelin, Overeem, Matt Hughes. How about all of them in the same night!

Overeem will gas out very quickly with all that muscle. Soon as he fights Somebody we will all find out. Take my word. He is going to lose to Dos Santos. I guarantee it. I'll even bet my Wrestlezone Forum account on it. You guys can ban me if Overeem wins.

Gracie was better than Sakuraba. Gracie would have tapped out Funaki in UFC II. You want to do this all day really dude? I just disagree with you. Can't that just be that!?!? Lets insult each other and act like we are 13!

And if you think it is laughable for me to say that Ken Shamrock was the most dangerous man on the planet in 1995 than you clearly don't have a very good sense of humor. Nobody could hang with him on the mat. He was roided out of his mind, and absolutley deadly on the mat with his submission skills. This was way before all the chair shots, and pro wrestling fucked his body up.

I'm talking old school man!!! Seriously, you don't even want to get me started on Tank Abbott.

Just for the record I have fought MMA a bunch. I've even won a couple of titles. Not any real important ones, but at least I've had a few straps wrapped around my waist. I grew up on the old school stuff man. Gotta love it.

 

[Fizzy]

He had some serious fire in his eyes,

Is that the same as the look Chuck gets in his eyes when "he's back?"

Overeem will gas out very quickly with all that muscle.

Doesn't matter how fast he gasses, one knee to Royce's face and he's knocked out. It's that simple.

Gracie was better than Sakuraba. Gracie would have tapped out Funaki in UFC II. You want to do this all day really dude? I just disagree with you. Can't that just be that!?!? Lets insult each other and act like we are 13!

This isn't something you can agree or disagree on because it's not an opinion. You can't support your thoughts with any sort of facts, you just expect everybody to trust you. You have no proof Gracie was better than Saku, but there is proof Saku is better than Gracie considering he beat him handily.

As for Funaki, again you have no basis behind your assumption. I never said Royce wouldn't tap him out. If you remember, your comment was that Rickson never fought anybody half as good as the guys Royce was. I countered that argument with Funaki, a guy who was better than 95% of the people Royce fought. It's not as simple as you disagreeing with me. You have no facts to back up the stuff you're saying. That is where the problem lies.

And if you think it is laughable for me to say that Ken Shamrock was the most dangerous man on the planet in 1995 than you clearly don't have a very good sense of humor. Nobody could hang with him on the mat. He was roided out of his mind, and absolutley deadly on the mat with his submission skills. This was way before all the chair shots, and pro wrestling fucked his body up.

Really, nobody could hang with him on the mat. Huh, must have missed the Funaki fight where he got submitted. That was in 1994. He also got subbed by Suzuki in 1995, the time period in which "nobody could hang with him on the mat." At least do some research..

Look, i'm glad you like MMA and are posting in the section, we are always looking for more regulars, but please man, if you're going to debate, please find some facts to base your posts off. It's nice you're so adamant about this subject, but everything you say is an assumption which is countered with facts. You dispute these facts, not with other facts, but with you telling everybody that we should "believe you."

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Facts for what!?

I'm not trying to say that my opinion is concrete. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I think that is where we are confused here. I personally don't give a shit what anybody thinks of my opinion. Just take it for what its worth(which is nothing in your case).

Pancrase fights were worked in the early days(a lot of pride fights were too).

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

That fights are worked. This isn't the WWE. Where's your proof that they were worked? Sure some decisions have been bullshit but that's a matter of opinion. Where did anyone say professional fights have been a work?

 

[BaconBits]

That fights are worked. This isn't the WWE. Where's your proof that they were worked? Sure some decisions have been bullshit but that's a matter of opinion. Where did anyone say professional fights have been a work?

There have been many fighters who fought in PRIDE that have said there were fights that were fixed in some manner. Rampage in particular has talked of it many times.

When your primary backer is the Yakuza, it's never going to be totally on the up and up.

I've never heard anything about Pancrase being fixed though.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

All you have to do is watch it.

Rickson vs Takada was a work if I've ever seen one. Takada vs Mark Coleman was a work obviously. All you have to do is see it with your own eyes. I've seen millions of fights, and those are worked if I've ever seen it. Just go back and watch some of the early Pancrase with Vernon White. Some of those "Fights" were obvious.

Same goes for Sakuraba's Pride run against Vernon White, Carlos Newton, Shannon Ritch, and maybe, just maybe his fight against Guy Mezger at the 2000 Pride Grand Prix. That tournament was riddled with worked fights. Royce Gracie vs Takada was worked to set up Royce vs Sakuraba in the second round(plus the goofy ending with Ken Shamrock in the Sak vs Mezger first round fight). Coleman's fight against Fujita in that tournament was worked because Fujita was unable to fight due to injuries. They agreed to do what they did so he would get the purse for the second fight in the tournament.

The proof is that Quinton Jackson admitted that Pride offered to pay him extra to lose to Sakuraba in that same run. Rampage says that he didn't take the money, and I believe him. He was legitimately choked the fuck out in that fight.

As for the UFC, they are legit today, but back in the day they did have a few worked fights as well. Don Frye vs Mark Hall in the Ultimate Ultimate 96 tournament, and Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony Macias at UFC VI. Obvious works if you just know what you are looking at.

 

[MrExcitement]

I believe today's fighters, such as Anderson Silva, GSP, Wanderlei Silva would fare well in the old-school UFC, as they have a better understanding off all the elements of MMA. Ken Shamrock had a decent knowledge of many of these same aspects and i believe this is what made him successful until he got injured in Pro-Wrestling. It would be funny to see some of the looks on the younger guys faces knowing it's bare knuckles, no rules! Still, i'd love to see early 90's Shamrock in the UFC today

 

[Pedigree1]

I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.

Yup you be bankrupt!! UFC is way better now than its ever been. Sure i miss the old days but Royce had only one style BJJ!! His stand up sucked wrestling sucked his BJJ TOP TOP of the food chain no doubt on that!! Remember Matt huges pounded him! THink about this for one moment Royce fought at 170 take Pre Injury GSP and have GSP fight Royce!! GSP would murder Royce absoutely destroy him. Sure Royce is a hero he is the godfather of MMA not just the UFC.

you think with the new rules they took the spirit out of fights? Have you seen Gomi V diaz Cro Cop v Fedor Henderson V shogun? I can go on and on those fights and many many more are full of spirit!

 

[ZainGFY]

I'll say this right now. Nobody could beat Royce Gracie in a Real fight in his prime. No rules, no gloves, no time limit, no rounds, Royce wins every time. You can take the best fighters from today, and take them back in time, put them in a fight against Royce in that classic setting, and I'd put my money on Royce.

He was a major reason why they made a lot of those rules. In that setting he would be so patient, and strategic. He would just hold you, and wait for even an hour if he had to(his family had done it several time in Brazillian fights). Sooner or later, he would catch you. It didn't matter how big you were, or how strong you were, he would catch you.

Sure it was boring to watch, but that was besides the point. In a real fight setting, nobody could beat the man. It was only when they introduced the "Stand up" rule, and rounds that people could finally beat him.

I'm one of the few MMA people that says screw the entertainment aspect of the sport. If you want entertainment, go watch pro wrestling. I just want to see who the real best fighter in the world is. When they introduced the stand up rules, and rounds they took the spirit out of the fights.

The UFC is better than ever now, and the fighters are much better but the old days were Real fights. Heroes were made in those first 10 tournaments. I miss the old days of MMA.

Even though I agree with a majority of what you said, Wallid Ismail choked out Royce Gracie in a fight where there were no time limits and no judges. This was during both of these fighters primes. But Ismail made his debut at UFC 12 and lost by decision....so that fight never happened on the big stage. I would have loved to seen that fight @ UFC IV or V.

 

[fmwfan]

You cant compare modern day ufc fighters to back in the day...back in the day you had fight style vs fight style... Now you have MMA fighters who are all well rounded in all parts of the game...if you put Royce Gracie in a cage in his prime against a good part of todays welterweights...Royce looses I would imagine

 

[Davi323]

I think it depends on what your criteria is. If you are talking about the overall skill of the fighters, I think the modern day UFC would kick the old school UFC's ass. Today's fighters are far more well-rounded, skilled in multiple styles than they were. They had to be. As soon as one of those old school UFC fighters figured out that if they learned additional styles to fight they would have more weapons at their disposal, other fighters had to do the same to stay relevant. In that, today's MMA fighters are flat out technically better.

HOWEVER, if you want to talk about just the overall style of the match itself, today's UFC can't hold a candle to the old school style. You simply didn't see many fights called off, they just kept at it until someone flat out got their ass kicked. Today's UFC bouts are matches, old school UFC bouts were FIGHTS. There was something visceral about them.

Personally, I would say give me today's skilled combatants with the looser rules back then, a blend of the two.