Old Gimmicks, New Faces

[jobesukulele]

What do you think?

This come to me and a friend when we were talking about the lack of creativity in character gimmicks the other day.

We both agree that the WWE of today has crap gimmicks today compared to that of the WWF of old.

In the past there was various and diverse gimmicks split amongst N.O.D, M.O.D, The Corporation. There was the L.O.D, Kane, Undertaker, Mankind, SCSA, DX, Godwins, Goldust, Shamrock, etc etc, et al.

Where today everyone has the same style doubled barrelled name type (Dolph Ziggler, Mason Ryan, Tyson Kid, Trent Baretta, Tyler Rex, Husky Harris, Cody Rhodes, Johnny Curtis, etc etc, et al). They all have varying looks but all more or less come across as just normal dudes who decided to have a career in Professional Wrestling; Sorry, "Sports Entertainment".

Seeing the new look of Husky Harris we started wondering if it would be such a bad thing if the WWE taught Harris the mannerisms of someone like, say, Mankind, changed his hair to fit and then stuck him in the Mankind gimmick.

So this is where I want to know what other people think. Would it work? Would it go down well? Would it draw or alienate older fans? Would it bring back some lacking diversity?...

...if WWE recast some classic gimmicks like the L.O.D, Mankind, the N.O.D, Ultimate Warrior (I know, lol, I'm cringing thinking about That one too), and any more that I might not of thought of.

Add any old gimmicks you would like to see, and who you'd stick in the gimmick if you agree with the concept as well.

We're looking forward to hearing what people think.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

You mean like a while back where they had Imposter Kane? Or even further when Hall and Nash left the WWE they had fake Diesel and fake Razor Ramon show up? DIfferent wrestlers in the gimmick and tradmarks that the WWE owns?

Because that sucked. Hard. If you and your broseph are talking about a lack of creativity...well buckaroo...rehasing a previously used gimmick is as uncreative as you can get.

I think it's a poor idea.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

What the OP should keep in mind is that the WWE is a completely different company from the 80s and 90s with the "professional" characters and the out-there, almost cartoonish characters. If you really look hard enough you can compare these guys to older wrestlers/gimmicks.

Example: Look at Skip Sheffield, who's currently stuck in FCW hell. The lariat he did was NATURAL looking, which is very hard to "script" up. His look and demeanor reminded me a lot of Stan Hansen.

Example 2: Brodus Clay. I've already seen posts comparing him to one Big Van Vader. Brodus has the potential to be a beast of a main-eventer and his mic skills are actually pretty decent for a rookie. Keep him with Del Rio a while and he'll blossom out, I guarantee it.

Example 3: Dolph Ziggler. The yells for him to take on a gimmick similar to Mr. Perfect are simply astonishing. He's actually coming across more like Steve Austin's "Stunning" gimmick in WCW.

The point that I'm getting at is that there will ALWAYS be some comparison to older wrestlers and gimmicks. Just as there are different roles in a workplace, so too must there be a hierarchy of gimmick types in a wrestling promotion, even if they're trying to match the personae of the "Superstars/Divas" to the more casual, "average Joe" fan.

 

[jobesukulele]

You mean like a while back where they had Imposter Kane? Or even further when Hall and Nash left the WWE they had fake Diesel and fake Razor Ramon show up? DIfferent wrestlers in the gimmick and tradmarks that the WWE owns?

Yes, using the trademarks they own.

No, not like Gillberg, lol.

We meant like actually recasting the characters, on a permanent basis type run.

Yes, Kane is someone we talked about.

When Glen Jacobs decides to retire an irreplaceable character will be lost. To replace him the character would need to get his mask back but all that would require would be for Glen Jacob's very last promo in the WWE to involve a facial injury of some sort.
Then down the line the WWE would be free to stick someone under the Kane character and re-debut him somewhere down the line.

My mate Dave thinks people would hate it at first but not turn off because of it.

I think basically the same, that there'd be outrage at first but eventually people wouldn't even care much either way maybe even embrace it after a while.

That's why we thought to post it on here.

 

[wushady]

Recycling old gimmicks never works like someone else pointed out. It failed when WWE tried it with Kane, and even worse when they did the fake Diesel and Razor Ramon and the evil Undertaker in the early 90's. People will always compare wrestlers of today to wrestlers in the past, but totally reusing another wrestlers gimmick is completely different. It's disrespectful to the wrestler that originally got the gimmick over, and to the fans. It also shows a lack of creativity on WWE's part.

 

[Mr_billy]

How about just having some gimmicks, no one really has one. I want a white trash guy, or people who had various jobs, or time in the military, even some bs back ground story on some people. And no, being from Ghana isn't a gimmick. The WWE has been vanilla for a while now. I am beginning to even long for Duke the Dumpster Drosse.

 

[jobesukulele]

wow what an insult to the people who made the gimmicks.

That would more or less be the opinion of a lot of people granted. Saying that though, there was more than likely numerous retired wrestlers who felt disgusted at the WWF moving out of its territory. And likewise, more that felt slap-faced over the direction Pro Wrestling took in the 1990s with ECW and the Attitude Era.

More than ever the WWE is like a TV show and the Wrestlers are interchangeable cast members.

The best comparison I can make is after the original uncanny X men flopped. Chris Claremont took over and created/co-created scores of new characters and stories. He wrote hundreds of issues and ended making what turned out to become the highest record selling comic of all time. Then. He moved on and new writers took over his characters. They weren't the same, a lot of people hated it but new people took over the characters anyway and it continued and a different generation enjoyed the same characters probably not even knowing how great their start was.

 

[jobesukulele]

Recycling old gimmicks never works like someone else pointed out. It failed when WWE tried it with Kane, and even worse when they did the fake Diesel and Razor Ramon and the evil Undertaker in the early 90's. People will always compare wrestlers of today to wrestlers in the past, but totally reusing another wrestlers gimmick is completely different. It's disrespectful to the wrestler that originally got the gimmick over, and to the fans. It also shows a lack of creativity on WWE's part.

All of those cases were either parodies that were deliberately supposed to be terrible or secondary characters in the original character's storyline that were never intended as permanent replacements.

I know it is a massive departure from tradition but even so it come up so I thought I'd bring it up.

 

[Food Library]

I can't say I like the idea. Although they have been doing that with Doink for years lol. Why have a new Kane or a new Mankind? I just don't see the need for it. A gimmick need not involve a mask or face paint and unless the guy suits the character (Kane, Mysterio, Sting) I find it kind of silly. Anyone remember "The Demon" or "The Shockmaster" (arguably the GREATEST gimmick ever). It would tank like Sheen"s career.

 

[OutsiderDX]

I'm not saying this is a good idea or a bad idea.

But the only way for this to work is if the audience perceives the the new wrestler has the approval of the old wrestler.

In comic books, countless gimmicks are passed from one man to the other.

So as an example: Let's say before Kane retires, he gives his mask to another wrestler. Obviously not just on a whim, but a nice drawn out storyline.

Or, if Road Warrior Hawk scouts tag teams and give his approval and shoulder pads to a team, claiming he wants the LOD to live on.

If done respectfully and had the company backing, it would have a better chance not to fail.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

A lot has changed since back then.. if we had a vampire character (rip from Gangrel), in todays world, it just wouldn't work... We don't even ahve many gimmicks now days anyway, , have you noticed back in the 90's, wrestlers names e.g. The Rock, Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Mankind, Gangrel, Vampiro, Diesel, Earthquake.. heck.. I could go on forever..

What names have we know? They are more realistic names e.g. Wade Barrett, John Cena, Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, Randy Orton, Drew McIntyre.. Again, I could go on forever..

The thing is, the names now, don't really say gimmicks, its like the wrestlers are playing themselves which isn't really a bad thing... But what you're saying, I could see that side of wrestling come back maybe in years to come though.. By then, the ideas will become fresh again, so won't be a problem.. But it kinda hurts the person who played the gimmick before...

 

[jaceynightheat]

Not sure how it'd be creative to copy old gimmicks and give them to new wrestlers. I do think that wrestling needs more gimmicks in general. Pretty much it's mostly just guys with tribal tattoos on their arms, top of their shoulders, short hair & the small tights. Not many people stand out.

I also don't know why they rename a lot of legends' kids & say they are their kids. What's the point if you're not going to use the name?

 

[EEPunk]

Rehashing gimmicks is never a good idea. Whether they be current or old. That isn't to say that there aren't a few gimmicks interspersed throughout WWE now. I submit to you, Zack Ryder, The "Mexican JBL" Aleberto del Rio, "Evil Announcer" Michael Cole, The Phantom of the Opera-like Cody Rhodes, Tyler Reks to an extent.
Personally, I don't think in the modern era you need a lot of top card or upper mid card gimmicks. What IS needed is allowing the wrestlers who are basically letting their own character shine through, to have a little more freedom, especially on the stick to get themselves over.

 

[psycho4ever]

ive always thought this was a good idea, not if you pretend its the same guy but imagine if some big guy loses lots of matches, then 1 week he's walking back stage and finds the undertakers(who would have retired by now) coat and hat, puts them on, goes to the ring, with his own music, wins a match using undertakers own moves, then next week comes out to undertakers attitude era 1998 music, and sticks with the gimmick from then onwards, it might piss people off but that would make him a good heel.

plus it'd be cool to have the undertaker character around forever, he should never die, but then he is the deadman...

 

[wushady]

All of those cases were either parodies that were deliberately supposed to be terrible or secondary characters in the original character's storyline that were never intended as permanent replacements.

I know it is a massive departure from tradition but even so it come up so I thought I'd bring it up.

They were only meant to be temporary because WWE knew it wouldn't work in the long run. If the person somehow managed to get the gimmick over for a second time. Vince McMahon would have kept it going, of course it didn't work. The only way it would work is if fans didn't know the original, but their will always be people that do and they will crap all over it.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

They are doing it with Husky now in FCW under the name Axel Mulligan... He is now wearing a Lecter/Mankind style mask... It seemed to suit him... Its on youtube...

WWE right now IS rehasing most of the old role if not using the exact gimmicks... Think of these comparisons, not just the gimmick but the role they played in the old feds.

Dolph Zigger - Stunning Steve Austin/Mr. Perfect type fabulous heel
Daniel Bryan - Greg Valentine/Bret Hart type technical wiz in the midcard
CM Punk - Jake Roberts like psychotic heel/beloved face
Zeke - Bad News Brown's gimmick
Tyler Reks - Bruiser Brody
Wade Barrett - Don Muraco/Razor Ramon, strong agile big man with a unique look/mic skills
Kofi Kingston - This guy has the role JYD had in 1985... not quite main event, but close enough to sell tickets and be a major draw.
The Miz - Roddy Piper's role
Jo-Mo - Put him with Trish or Sunny and you have Randy Savage without the same craziness...
Evan Bourne - Tito Santana for a new generation... not being mexican, but one of the best guys on the roster and will always be a supporting player to the big guys.
Sheamus - The Warrior... His face run will be huge in a year or so.

 

[TortureKiller]

All of those cases were either parodies that were deliberately supposed to be terrible or secondary characters in the original character's storyline that were never intended as permanent replacements.

I know it is a massive departure from tradition but even so it come up so I thought I'd bring it up.

KISS is doing this very thing with the Ace and Peter characters... In the end some fans would hate it others would love it and their "creative" department could keep producing the clones to fill the gaps...

 

[tarzan2490]

Yes, using the trademarks they own.

No, not like Gillberg, lol.

We meant like actually recasting the characters, on a permanent basis type run.

Yes, Kane is someone we talked about.

When Glen Jacobs decides to retire an irreplaceable character will be lost. To replace him the character would need to get his mask back but all that would require would be for Glen Jacob's very last promo in the WWE to involve a facial injury of some sort.
Then down the line the WWE would be free to stick someone under the Kane character and re-debut him somewhere down the line.

My mate Dave thinks people would hate it at first but not turn off because of it.

I think basically the same, that there'd be outrage at first but eventually people wouldn't even care much either way maybe even embrace it after a while.

That's why we thought to post it on here.

Didn't Charlie Haas do this? act like other wrestlers...I beleive he got let go from the company after what less than 6 months...maybe 7..

 

[SyndicateSaint]

I'm not saying this is a good idea or a bad idea.

But the only way for this to work is if the audience perceives the the new wrestler has the approval of the old wrestler.

In comic books, countless gimmicks are passed from one man to the other.

So as an example: Let's say before Kane retires, he gives his mask to another wrestler. Obviously not just on a whim, but a nice drawn out storyline.

Or, if Road Warrior Hawk scouts tag teams and give his approval and shoulder pads to a team, claiming he wants the LOD to live on.

If done respectfully and had the company backing, it would have a better chance not to fail.

They have been doing this in Japan with the Tiger Mask gimmick. Sayama trained the current TM, but before that Koji Kanemoto and Misawa were Tiger Mask. Black Tiger, the foil to Tiger Mask, has had a few different people under the mask, including Eddy Guerrero.

 

[dizzle1119]

I couldn't get behind an idea like this. Simply plugging a new guy into an existing character's gimmick and/or persona has failure written all over it. For example; Just because a man wears Kane's costume, doesn't mean he's Kane. Jacobs adds his own bits & pieces into that character, and over the years he has made it his own. Noone could just step into that role.

I have no problem with a new guy taking parts of an older gimmick for his own use, such as implementing a classic finisher into his repertoire, but to completely hand over an established gimmick like Mankind or Kane is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Food Library]

They are doing it with Husky now in FCW under the name Axel Mulligan... He is now wearing a Lecter/Mankind style mask... It seemed to suit him... Its on youtube...

WWE right now IS rehasing most of the old role if not using the exact gimmicks... Think of these comparisons, not just the gimmick but the role they played in the old feds.

Dolph Zigger - Stunning Steve Austin/Mr. Perfect type fabulous heel
Daniel Bryan - Greg Valentine/Bret Hart type technical wiz in the midcard
CM Punk - Jake Roberts like psychotic heel/beloved face
Zeke - Bad News Brown's gimmick
Tyler Reks - Bruiser Brody
Wade Barrett - Don Muraco/Razor Ramon, strong agile big man with a unique look/mic skills
Kofi Kingston - This guy has the role JYD had in 1985... not quite main event, but close enough to sell tickets and be a major draw.
The Miz - Roddy Piper's role
Jo-Mo - Put him with Trish or Sunny and you have Randy Savage without the same craziness...
Evan Bourne - Tito Santana for a new generation... not being mexican, but one of the best guys on the roster and will always be a supporting player to the big guys.
Sheamus - The Warrior... His face run will be huge in a year or so.

There is a difference between personalities and costumes. A lot of costumed heroes are smart asses but they don't all wear Spider-Man's suit. Same thing in wrestling. There are only so many personalities out there but that doesn't mean we need 100 years of people in Mankind costumes.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

i had thought of this too a while back and realized that it wouldn't work because comparisons will always be drawn to the previous person to hold the gimmick and unless the new guy somehow blows it out of the water immediately it would never get over... I think if anything I just want the gimmicks to be back! I like the Kanes and Takers and cannot stand the double named guys who happen to be sports entertainers as you said... That just makes it a scripted MMA to me whereas before it was something entirely different... that's what made it fun to watch though

 

[jellmoo]

Or, if Road Warrior Hawk scouts tag teams and give his approval and shoulder pads to a team, claiming he wants the LOD to live on.

Um... That would certainly be interesting to see. Probably a little terrifying as well.

As to the topic at hand, gimmicks are recycled all the time. Dashing Cody Rhodes is hardly an original gimmick, it's been done time and time again. It's used because it works and it works well.

Recycling actual characters, however, isn't quite the same thing. Names have been passed down, like Gorgeous George and Nature Boy, but at no point are we supposed to believe that the wrestler inheriting the name actually *is* that same person.

The Fake Kane is a good example. That angle was put to rest quickly because it simply wasn't good. They tried to re-create the fake Undertaker angle from years before, and it didn't take (not that the original was all that good to begin with).

But you could easily introduce a new character that is Kane like. You could have a brand new 7 foot behemoth come out wearing a mask. You don't call him Kane, but he has some of the same qualities. Hell, you can have Kane put the guy over before he retires so that we have a brand new monster. The gimmick lives on, but the audience isn't exactly feeling cheated with an inferior product.

 

[berlinbrawler]

I agree that recycling old gimmicks is a bad idea. Which is not to say it never happens. Sometimes even successfully so.

Years after the Million Dollar Man came JBL with a modern day version of the gimmick. In Orlando Jordan he even had himself a Virgil for a while. It worked, because JBL made it his own and put his own twist on the gimmick. Plus it was based on his real life personality, that probably helped.

On the flipside there is Ted Dibiase Jr. Him taking on his old man's gimmick was a very, very bad idea. It wasn't original. He didn't make it his own. Hell, he even used the Million Dollar Championship AND the original Virgil. A nostalgia act like that has a very short shelf-life. As a result his career is in deep crap right now.

To make the matter really confusing, out comes Alberto del Rio, the hispanic JBL. Basically a rip-off's rip-off. The gimmick works, so it kinda proves wrong the point I just made. Well, I guess this just adds another element to the mix: charisma. If you got enough of that, you can make any gimmick work.

Back to Dibiase Jr., people praise him all the time in that regard. Supposedly he does have charisma. I admit I never saw it. He is not as bland as, say, Charlie Haas or Shelton Benjamin, but he is definitely neither a face nor a personality that sticks out in a crowd. Some people see the next big thing in him. I see vanilla.

 

[80's were better]

Recycling old gimmicks is not a bad idea but replacing a specific character doesn't make much sense. Grabbing a guy from FCW and putting him in mankinds old costume and having him go around acting like mick foley would be silly. I think if you were to take an old gimmick like LOD or Demolition and put it on to guys with one of the original members as their manager that may work. The gimmick that Husky Harris is using now I think is fine its basiclly Raven with a mask hopefully he can do something with it.