nWo 2002

[dukes07]

I am watching WWF 2002 right now. And being a WCW mark, I also wanted to revisit the nWo as that was the last time I had watched wrestling for nearly a decade.

I have lots of thoughts about why the WWF incarnation of the nWo happened the way it did, but I would end up boring the shit out of everybody with an overlong dissertation. So while I think it had a lot of potential that was ultimately short-changed by the WWF atmosphere, bad booking, Austin's intransigence and of course Hogan turning face, Hall getting fired and Nash getting hurt while walking....Essentially a perfect storm of events like the even worse nWo 2000.

But what does everyone else here think about the WWF version? Should it even have happened, could it have been done better, was it done fine and just a flash in the pan and Vince did what he could under the circumstances? How would you have done it if you could change it?

 

[thebarber]

The WWE version was the originals, which is what would have kept it strong. The second Hogan and Rock had their confrontation, the nWo concept in place was finished, Hulk was always going to be cheered. With Austin refusing to work with Hogan, this put a huge dent in what could have really been WWE's finest hour at Mania 18...........what would have worked with Hulk turning face, Id still have X-Pac join the nWo the night after Mania, and even Big Show as these guys were the original crew. WWE should hav kept Hall around longer and off tv, or in a non wrestling capacity. When HHH and HBK reunited DX in June, they should have had some form of confrontation, Nash, Hall, XPac and Big Show in a staredown with HBK and HHH. At this point, Hulk comes out to save the day, but WHAMMO, DX turn, and a 6 on 1 beat down of Hogan. The nWo is now the Kliq.They could lay waste to Big Show also, who may try to save Hulk due to their real life friendship, and we have The Kliq, bury the nWo gimmick as a failed WCW creation. This way, HHH is the WWE Champ and leading the group, Nash and Hall tagging if Hall could remain sober enough to stand on the apron and HBK and XPac the workers of the group. Hogan is over even further in his nostalgic tour, he could have Rock and Austin onside. Imagine the Summerslam 2002 main event: Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock vs HHH, HBK and Kevin Nash.(im assuming as history changed, so would Nash;s movements thus he may never have torn his quad, and Austin didnt take his ball and leave as he would have been working along side Hulk instead of putting him over.
Anyway, to me ratings would have blown the roof off. Means Lesnar either fights somebody else for the title or maybe is pitted against Kurt Angle earlier than anticipated.

 

[TAirdrie86]

I like the Kliq idea would have been great booking. Real life is always the best bookings. FYI, to dukes07 it wasn't Austin that refused to wrestle hogan, it was well documented it was hogan who refused to do the job to Austin, he would only job to Rock because Rock was becoming legitimate in hollywood. If hogan jobbed to Austin, it would have been the final nail in saying Austin was the biggest money star in Pro Wrestling Ever. Something hogan would never allow happening.

 

[Brewski]

like ^ said, there was a lot of backstage crap that kept it from being as good as it could have been. I personally was against the idea the whole time since it just felt so forced and not at all what made nWo so great from the early years. At that time I really wasn't a fan of any of their wrestling and would have rather them come in without an NWO gimmick. I will say though that Hogan's run that stemmed from that was pretty allright and delivered the match with the rock.

 

[dukes07]

When going back to watch it, I thought the entire concept was convoluted. The entire purpose of the nWo is this fascist like takeover, anti-corporate, anti-WCW and it was an actual invasion. That is what it made it so successful. Schiavone and Bobby and Bischoff played it off so well that I have honestly never seen anything like it ever since. They would interrupt matches but also stop actual shows, such as the one where Rey was launched into the trailer. It forced faces and heels to work together etc. In short, despite my disdain for Hogan and a bit for Nash, it is my favorite angle of all time.

Flash forward to the WWF version: They are corporate from the start, brought in by Vince. The entire purpose of which is to take out Flair. But it is NEVER done. The Undertaker gets that job. So the initial purpose of bringing them in makes no sense. I thought it was decently done but it was poorly executed.

So now you have to deal with the Rock and Austin, two of the biggest names in wrestling history. So you cannot make them look too weak and with the WWF/E's history of booking heels, the potential for disaster is already evident. You have to balance out the ego's and the politics etc. But when it comes to Austin v. Hogan, it was not Hogan who refused to job but Austin too. Austin quit during this time, and he was having all sorts of issues with HHH, Rock and even the incoming nWo. He was also beating his wife. So they went with the Rock. And I thought it was done really well.

However, the Canadian crowd was always going to cheer Hogan (They did in 99). Canadian fans are really passionate and for some reason love the shit out of Hogan....always confused me a bit! I think Austin did not want to be overshadowed while the Rock has always been fine with sharing the spotlight.

As for WM 18: The original finish was for Hall to win. But Austin was not happy and they wanted to keep him happy. Yet he quit anyway and that loss neutered the nWo. After Hogan turned they blamed Hogan, saying it would take all THREE to take out Austin. When it would have made more sense for them to win, and then blame Hogan for not doing his share in beating the Rock.

Essentially you have the nWo triumph at WM. Hogan will still move merchandise. Then you target HHH. Get the belt. Bring in Pac and Show like someone said. If all goes well, Austin has quit, and you give credit to the nWo. HHH takes some time off. Vince is all giddy but then here comes Bischoff and it is a hostile takeover. So now he is in charge....Then you can reform DX and have them fight through Survivor Series. Bring back Steiner at this time to keep the nWo strong and have him feud with HHH as a fucking heel and not a face. If it is still working maybe get it through WM 19. Have Lesnar help defeat them, rally the entire WWF....Bring in Goldberg as the grand finale, in a WM match against Hogan taking him out once and for all. And if WWF egos don't want that you still have great set ups with the return of Austin and the rallying of the entire WWF roster to finish them off once and for all.

 

[KingOfKings249]

Simply they should've just showly turned the NWO into the Kliq after WM , since that was the last year all of them were signed to WWE

 

[King Patrick Star]

I loved the WWE version of the New World Order. It definitely should have happened. It could have been done a lot better. I wouldn’t say it was done fine, but I wouldn’t say it was just a flash in the pan either. Vince, as always, could have done more if he wanted to, but we all know he didn’t need to. How I would have done it if I could change it?? I thought you’d never ask.

Every time I see the NWO 2002 / WWE NWO thread, I always jump on it and ponder the ideas of what if. Every time I post about it, I always add slight changes in my revisionist booking. This is no different. Here goes.

NWO 2002
Take 112 and action…

No Way Out 2002

Hogan, Nash and Hall cost Austin the Undisputed WWF / WCW World Heavyweight Championship against Chris Jericho.

Raw / Smackdown

Vince was “forced” to bring in the New World Order to get rid of Ric, now Flair is “forced” to create the new Four Horsemen to get rid of McMahon. Flair enlists The Undertaker, The Rock, and Stone Cold Steve Austin, with the 4th spot left open for the future.

WrestleMania X8

Undertaker vs. Scott Hall
Taker wins.

The Rock vs. Kevin Nash
Rock wins.

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hulk Hogan
Austin wins.

Undisputed WWF / WCW World Heavyweight Championship match
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H
Half was through the match, the NWO make their way to the ring. Keep in mind, they helped Jericho defeat Austin at last month’s PPV. The Horsemen then make their way to the ring to support Triple H and stop the NWO from interfering. Brawl breaks out, and the Horsemen and the NWO are all over the outside. Out of no where, X-Pac jumps in the ring, in NWO gear, hands a chair to Jericho and distracts the referee. Jericho goes to strike HHH, only to run into Sweet Chin Music from HBK. 1-2-3, Triple H wins, celebrating with HBK and Pac.

Raw / Smackdown

Now we have Hogan, Nash and Hall on one side, and HBK, HHH, and Pac, now in DX gear, on the other. After the Cliq and the Klique argue a little bit, out comes Flair and the 3 Horsemen. Ric says he was looking forward to having Triple H as the newest member, but he decided to align himself with the garbage in the ring. That sounds like something Flair would say. Hogan, Michaels and Flair all announce that they are scouting talent to each add more members to their Stables.

From this point, the possibilities are endless. You now have a 3 way war, with tons of mini storylines sprinkled in-between. I’d have Big Show and Scott Steiner join the NWO. I’d have the New Age Outlaws join DX. I’d have Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit join the Horsemen.

Let me stop now, because this could go on for a while.

 

[dukes07]

You are right the possibilities are endless. I like a lot of what you had to say. The only downside I can see is that the nWo is losing every match....It would have to be booked a bit differently than WCW. But for me the entire point of the nWo is a takeover and then the WWF in a myriad of different ways could rally in time. There is the danger of too many stables but it could work if done correctly or you add them in due course. If you do add them in quickly, then yes they each have to win and lose, staying strong. You could have one faction takeover one brand and invade the other brand, having raids etc.

 

[relentless1]

first off i would have had bischoff be the one who bought the stock not flair, with vince as the face and bisch as the heel they have the match at royal rumble where the original three members come in and destroy vince, the nWo rouns rough over raw til wrestlemania, adding henning, big show and xpac into the group, at wrestlemania, have hogan lose to austin, hall and nash beat rock and undertaker, perfect beats angle, big show beats kane, hogan turns face in the match with austin, nWo comes down and beats him up for it, during HHH vs jericho, nWo comes down and cheap shots jericho without the ref seeing and HHH wins the undisputed title, acts pissed about it and rants about it on raw the next night, nWo comes out talking about the kliq and how theyre family and all that but HHH refuses the offer setting up a 6 man at backlash: hall nash big show vs HHH austin hogan, nWo wins as hbk makes his return that night and superkicks hogan, hall makes the pin, next night on raw HBK tries to convince HHH to join the nWo again but to no avail, during this time the nWo start helping hogan in his matches without his knowledge leading wwf guys not to trust him, bischoff sets up a tag match between hall nash vs HHH and hogan for judgement day, finally the turn comes and HHH joins the nWo during the match turning on hogan, the nWo keeps the belts til king of the ring where hogan wins it, has his nostaliga run for a month, HHH gets it back at vengeance and holds it til summerslam where he loses to rock, vince takes this oppurtunity to steal the WWE title for smackdown as the brand split has happened with bisch & the nWo running raw and vince owning smackdown, bischoff creates the world title and gives it to HHH but cracks start to appear in the nWo when scott stiener returns to the nwo but wants a title shot, hall nash big show henning and bischoff stay loyal to stiener while HHH HBK and xpac split and reform DX with the new age outlaws there you can have a survivor series match with 5 nWo members vs 5 DX members, they feud up until wrestlemania 19 where the angle ends having vince beat eric in a match for 100% control of WWE and the outsiders vs HHH HBK, loser disbands match with DX winning.

 

[CarlBorzak]

But when it comes to Austin v. Hogan, it was not Hogan who refused to job but Austin too. Austin quit during this time, and he was having all sorts of issues with HHH, Rock and even the incoming nWo. He was also beating his wife. So they went with the Rock. And I thought it was done really well.

Unfortunately, this isn't entirely accurate. Austin wanted to have the match with Hogan because he believed that, of the current full time roster, he would of had the best match with him. He wasn't happy with there choice to put him against Hall. This was a big contributing factor to him quitting.

 

[dukes07]

All that I have read and with wrestling it is always really murky, Austin and Hogan could not agree on the finish and neither wanted to job. Then Austin got "saddled" with Hall. He then said later that year right before his comeback that he had no problems with Hall, but rather the short length of the WM match saying it was unfair to his and Hall's fans.....But also, Austin was having all sorts of issues at this time, burnt out etc. Hence his no-shows and ultimate departure.

 

[FlairFan2003]

There are a million ways the 2002 NwO Angle would have worked better. The mere idea of having the biggest names in WWE fighting off a WCW type occupation-invasion by these guys on paper seems great.

No doubt that WWE hurt the angle right away taking McMahon & Flair out of it. The NWO were mercenaries above all else, the idea of the bully Vince bringing them in to "hurt" the company because he couldnt get Flair out of ownership, while extreme, did make some sense. If anyone fit the "play my way or I will take my ball and go home" it was Vince. McMahon was clearly a heel, Flair clearly a fan fav, and he had been a constant foe vs NWO in WCW. In storyline terms the idea Vince would risk the "poison" of the group to eliminate Flair, and the idea the group would come to WWE for a big pay day and a chance to finish Flair once and for all, made good sense in keeping with the characters and the NWO history in WCW.
Almost immediately when they arrived however the whole Vince vs Flair for control of the company angle was dropped. Vince laid low and Flair was put into a program vs Taker. The angle was on life support now, its very origin and reason for being cut out from under it. Of course WWE didnt want to take a chance on hiring Steiner due to his bad rep and the chances they took on Hall were proven worthless. After Hogan turned face, with no allegiance with Vince, Hall close to being fired, this thing was dead. That said WWE did get great build up and a very good match with Flair vs Taker and Rock vs Hogan became an iconic event, but a successful NwO Invasion would have had a much larger and longer term impact on programming.

Easiest way to have made the angle a success would have been to keep the initial focus on Vince vs Flair for control of WWE. Hogan stays heel and have the group recruit new members to swell their ranks, just like they did in WCW. Big Show is an obvious choice as he was a big name with major connections. You could try to elevate a couple mid card guys like RVD as major players on either side of the war as Vince struggles to keep control of the NWO vs Team WWE lead by Flair, Austin, Rock. In the summer you could shake things up with the return of DX, both sides trying to recruit them. This would have been a good time to bring in Steiner and Goldberg much earlier than they did. Lesnar could have remained a highly sought after free agent. Eventually this should have lead to a faction war between DX & NWO and a singles match pitting Austin vs Hogan. I would have wrapped up the initial angle by Survivor Series. By then the NWO would have turned on Vince. Ultimately WWE wins the war, Hogan face turn, Hogan-Nash feud, end of story. Id have Vince regroup and regain control of the company and then have Triple H & Flair start Evolution as the new year dawns after a huge HHH-HBK break up.

 

[dukes07]

There are a million ways the 2002 NwO Angle would have worked better. The mere idea of having the biggest names in WWE fighting off a WCW type occupation-invasion by these guys on paper seems great.

No doubt that WWE hurt the angle right away taking McMahon & Flair out of it. The NWO were mercenaries above all else, the idea of the bully Vince bringing them in to "hurt" the company because he couldnt get Flair out of ownership, while extreme, did make some sense. If anyone fit the "play my way or I will take my ball and go home" it was Vince. McMahon was clearly a heel, Flair clearly a fan fav, and he had been a constant foe vs NWO in WCW. In storyline terms the idea Vince would risk the "poison" of the group to eliminate Flair, and the idea the group would come to WWE for a big pay day and a chance to finish Flair once and for all, made good sense in keeping with the characters and the NWO history in WCW.
Almost immediately when they arrived however the whole Vince vs Flair for control of the company angle was dropped. Vince laid low and Flair was put into a program vs Taker. The angle was on life support now, its very origin and reason for being cut out from under it. Of course WWE didnt want to take a chance on hiring Steiner due to his bad rep and the chances they took on Hall were proven worthless. After Hogan turned face, with no allegiance with Vince, Hall close to being fired, this thing was dead. That said WWE did get great build up and a very good match with Flair vs Taker and Rock vs Hogan became an iconic event, but a successful NwO Invasion would have had a much larger and longer term impact on programming.

Easiest way to have made the angle a success would have been to keep the initial focus on Vince vs Flair for control of WWE. Hogan stays heel and have the group recruit new members to swell their ranks, just like they did in WCW. Big Show is an obvious choice as he was a big name with major connections. You could try to elevate a couple mid card guys like RVD as major players on either side of the war as Vince struggles to keep control of the NWO vs Team WWE lead by Flair, Austin, Rock. In the summer you could shake things up with the return of DX, both sides trying to recruit them. This would have been a good time to bring in Steiner and Goldberg much earlier than they did. Lesnar could have remained a highly sought after free agent. Eventually this should have lead to a faction war between DX & NWO and a singles match pitting Austin vs Hogan. I would have wrapped up the initial angle by Survivor Series. By then the NWO would have turned on Vince. Ultimately WWE wins the war, Hogan face turn, Hogan-Nash feud, end of story. Id have Vince regroup and regain control of the company and then have Triple H & Flair start Evolution as the new year dawns after a huge HHH-HBK break up.

I agree. That is some good shit. Like I said earlier you can bring in Bischoff to wrest control from Vince, after Vince thinks the nWo works for him and WWF/E and Flair have been done in. Vince then rallies the troops, DX or whatever to go on the offensive. They can recruit Goldberg at the end too. Hogan turns face like you said etc.

I will say this about Hall, and I am not sure if I stated this already on the thread but I am to lazy to go back and check and if I did then I apologize. I like Hall. When sober he is a good worker. He did the lion share of the nWo matches. He sold great for Austin and others. He did great on the vignettes and promos. He did the same in WWF and WCW too. It is such a shame that he could not keep his demons at bay.

Back to the nWo angle, this also could have been repeated during the InVasion, something along these lines instead of jobbing them out left, right and center.

 

[Toroc102]

The WWE nWo failed for the same reason the Invasion failed(and really why anything in wrestling has ever failed), because the right people didn't go over, although there was way more wrong with WWnWo than that.

Like someone else mentioned Vince announcing their return instead of it being a surprise attack messed things up. Having Hall and Hogan lose at WM only what, 2 months after their debut?, messed things up for them. Having the Rock and Austin bury them didn't help them. Not making them dominant hurt.

To me things like the Invasion and the nWo are what make me KNOW Vince holds grudges and carries them out. Sorry to break out on a tangent but using the Invasion as an example, every single thing that you could do to FUCK that storyline up was done. As a wrestling fan there is no other way to look at it. The nWo thing was just a smaller scale version of that. And every time WWE brought in an old WcW guy and buried them you saw the same exact pattern.

 

[dukes07]

The WWE nWo failed for the same reason the Invasion failed(and really why anything in wrestling has ever failed), because the right people didn't go over, although there was way more wrong with WWnWo than that.

Like someone else mentioned Vince announcing their return instead of it being a surprise attack messed things up. Having Hall and Hogan lose at WM only what, 2 months after their debut?, messed things up for them. Having the Rock and Austin bury them didn't help them. Not making them dominant hurt.

To me things like the Invasion and the nWo are what make me KNOW Vince holds grudges and carries them out. Sorry to break out on a tangent but using the Invasion as an example, every single thing that you could do to FUCK that storyline up was done. As a wrestling fan there is no other way to look at it. The nWo thing was just a smaller scale version of that. And every time WWE brought in an old WcW guy and buried them you saw the same exact pattern.

Fully agree with this. Having Hall treated as Austin's bitch in their second or third show and the nWo running scared was asinine. There were some good moments but at the same time they were rarely treated as a threat. They needed to be coming to the ring and kicking ass, interrupting matches. Going after Flair and being indiscriminate in their ass kicking. People say that angles are recycled every 6-8 years so why not try to strike again. And even though this nWo iteration was different it didn't need to fail so quickly. It was almost as if Vince wanted the InVasion and then the nWo to fail. I mean he did get an nWo DVD out and brief boost in ratings. I have argued that WCW has been purposely buried and watching any DVD that has WCW on it or any WWE Classics on Demand they go out of the way to mock it.

Slight conspiracy theories aside. The angle could have worked a lot better and should have had they taken the time. But ultimately with Hall getting fired and Nash getting hurt not much could really be done. Still, it could have been pretty great.