[NWA Bracket] Round 1 Match 4: Lou Thesz Vs Michael Hayes

Discussion in 'Legends Tournament 2009' started by Hyorinmaru, Oct 28, 2008.

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Who is the bigger Legend?

  1. Lou Thesz

  2. Michael Hayes

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  1. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    Lou Thesz
    [​IMG]
    The inventor of such moves as the Power Bomb, The STF, The Lou Thesz Press (Obviously) and the German Suplex Lou Thesz is truly a pioneer of Pro Wrestling. He has won the NWA Title 3 times and if you combine all 3 reigns he hled the title for over 10 years. he has held many other titles all over the World including Japan and Canada. He has been inducted into 3 different wrestling HoFs. To end I would like to show you something that I found. Montreal Athletic Commission: World Heavyweight Championship (Montreal version) (4 times; Youngest and oldest champion)




    Michale Hayes
    [​IMG]
    He had most of his success as a member ofthe Fabulous Freebirds with Terry Gordy. They won many Tag Team Titles together. He won PWIs Tag Team of the Year (With Tery Gordy) in 1981​
     
    #1
  2. Gelgarin

    Gelgarin Gentleman of the Old School

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    For the purposes of this soliloquy I am working under the assumption that you can read at roughly the same speed as I can. If you’re a speed reader then the calculation may not work, but then as I understand it most speed readers are undernourished pale folk who don’t have much muscle mass, so relatively speaking it probably shouldn’t matter.

    Anyway, the crux of this little monologue is that the above text (including this section right here and the text following this right up until I get to the punch line) should take roughly 18 seconds to read.

    The reason it is necessary that it take a person that long to read is simple. By insuring that the text reaches the afore mentioned length I can feel safe in saying that, by the time you have finished reading this… LOU THESZ COULD HAVE ALLREADY BROKEN YOUR ANKLE!

    Lou Thesz is, unquestionably, the greatest wrestler ever to (if you’ll excuse the cliché) lace up a pair of boots.

    I’ve been preparing to spectacularly fail in bringing a little Thesz love to the forums for quite a while, and as such I have built up a number of arguments why he is better than everybody else (especially you!), for your enjoyment in this opening match, I present three of them.

    1) Lou Thesz was the man.

    Thesz held the NWA Championship, which was at the time the biggest championship in the industry, for over 10 years. All right, I’ll be fair, when Thesz first got the world championship it was nothing special. Just another belt if you will. During his initial 7 year (have I got that right?) title reign Thesz was basically able to go around the territories winning every other world championship, until he because the first true undisputed champion in over 50 years.

    Nobody. Nobody. Not Austin, Hogan or HHH. Not even Sammentino for those who know their history. NOBODY has been as dominant or as important to the wrestling industry as Lou Thesz.



    2) Lou Thesz was legit

    That crack I made about him snapping your ankle wasn’t a joke. It wasn’t Kayfabe. Thesz is without a glimmer of a shadow of a doubt, the most talented hooker the business has ever seen. I know the modern wrestling fan, at least on this forum at least, tends to look down on legit wrestling ability in favour of “psychology” or whatever you call it. But what I think you have to appreciate is that Thesz wrestled in a very different time. Not only did Thezs work a schedule that would make your typical WWE champion break down a cry (regularly going 30+ minutes a night, 300 nights a year) but he had to do all this whilst maintain the illusion that everything in the ring was real.

    How did he manage it so well you might ask. The answer is simple. Quite often it was. Thesz regularly wrestled outside of his own area of influence, going up against local heroes with biased judges who would award any fall against him, and the only way for him to come out on top he would have to physically incapacitate his opponent via a snapped arm or similar.

    Furthermore, one of the downsides of a rigidly upheld kayfabe was that it opened the door to every shooter in the industry (And as the top guy, Lou had a pretty big target on his back). In those days it was very common to see guys going into business for themselves in the middle of matches trying to change the outcome by force. Thesz was a master of defending against these kinds of assaults, and only ever fell victim to a shooter once, (and that was only a rumour, and he still managed to avoid losing the belt).
    Nobody in the entire industry could touch Lou Thesz in kayfabe; and nobody could touch him in a legitimate fight. I think we can safely say that he was untouchable.



    3) Lou Thesz invented professional wrestling.

    Now I’m sure those who’ve done their Thesz homework will have a pretty good idea of where I’m going with this one. You’d expect me to rattle off the dozens of moves that Lou Thezs pioneered and popularised. Belly to back suplex. Powerbomb. STF. Thesz press and half a dozen other holds. Unfortunately, in my eyes, inventing a few moves doesn’t mean jack.

    What Thesz innovated was far greater than that. Thesz basically pioneered the idea of playing heel. Little mannerisms such as taking the cheap shot out of the corner, refusing a break, disrespectfully slapping an opponent. These were all tactics popularised by Thesz when he was going up against a hostile crowd. Heck, the whole idea of in ring story telling which professional wrestling revolves around today basically began with Lou Thesz.
    As the biggest name is professional wrestling for so long, it’s hard to argue with Thesz impact in the states. What most people are less aware of however is the effect he has outside the US.

    Would it surprise you to learn that Lou Thesz is responsible for the growth of professional wrestling in Japan? (Probably not since I already went on about it in another thread)

    Another name in this tournament is Rikidōzan. I’ve already seen one person credit him for the growth of professional wrestling in Japan, and I think it’s time I refuted that claim. Rikidōzan was, prior to meeting Lou Thezs, nothing more than a big fish in a small pond. Wrestling was a minor attraction. Rikid was probably the most popular guy there, mostly due to his gimmick of heroically beating Americas during a time on animosity between the two nations. Pro wrestling and Rikid’s career only took off after Thesz came over, wrestled him in a sequence of phenomenal 60 minute draws, and then put him over. Twice.

    This isn’t like HHH letting hardy roll him up at the Royal Rumble (have I got that right). A win over Lou Thesz (oh, and the NWA title that came with it) was the greatest honour that ANYBODY in professional wrestling could be awarded. The industry was very different those days, and Lou Thesz was almost never expected to put anybody over. He put Rikid over once as per his job spec, then put him over an unprecedented second time at the cost of his own reputation. The result; the local Japanese talent (who was actually Korean) proved his out and out superiority over the biggest name the US had to offer, during a time after WW2 when the Japanese desperately needed a hero. This was Hogan V Slaughter times one-thousand. The result, pro wrestling in Japan exploded and experienced what was probably it’s biggest ever boom. And Lou Thesz made it happen.

    Now, I’d like to make clear that these are just a few of the reasons you should vote for Lou Thesz. But communications experts tell me that the average human stops fully digesting persuasive text after 1000 words, so I’ll curtail my argument now and save the rest for when Thesz is getting whopped by some contemporary nobody who isn’t fit to lace up his boots.

    Vote Thesz.

    EDIT: Just as an asside, I'd like to mention that Hayes is a nobody better known for racially abusing Mark Henry than for anything he did in the ring.
     
    #2
  3. Checkmate

    Checkmate .you.lose.

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    Gelgarin sums up everything that anyone can say about Lou Thesz right there. ^

    Many will look back and consider Michael Hayes a legend. I think I could consider myself in that group. However, this isn't that simple.

    Lou Thesz may not win this competion, but he deserves to. He made Wrestling. Not created wrestling, or made wrestling what it is today, but he MADE wrestling. He invented and expanded upon movesets that are considered generic today. Without him, without what he did, pro wrestling today would not be the same.

    I don't think I can elaborate any further, but how can anyone, including Michael Hayes, compete with that?
     
    #3
  4. Father:_Polley

    Father:_Polley Fun's my Chinese neighbour's name

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    Gelgarin, that is probably the most impressive, well researched piece I've seen on the guy and I'm suitably impressed.

    I can only hope to follow up on the fact by running down a small list of facts as to why Michael Hayes doesn't deserve to.

    1. Apart from being a Freebird and having a stupid rule where a stable can pick two members to defend a belt named after said stable, Michael Hayes won 3 singles titles. Now, that suggests to me that Michael Hayes without Terry Gordy really wasn't much worth writing home about.

    2. Outside the ring, Hayes isn't special either. Bar a VERY brief run as a manager for the Hardys, Hayes most remarkable feat is as head writer for Smackdown! and even then, his biggest claim to fame is his suspension for making racist remarks towards Mark Henry (are you stupid Michael, really?)

    But part 2 is minor. This is a singles bout Michael Hayes (three singles belts remember) could NOT hope to beat Lou Thesz for that reason along
     
    #4
  5. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    I can't say much that hasn't already been said so I'm going to try not to repeat anything. Thesz went over to Japan and wrestled the best they had. He's held so many titles it's mind boggeling. So in addition to what Gelgarin said Thesz has a very good chance of winning this whole thing.
     
    #5
  6. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    Michaels Hayes is probably the worst professional wrestler ever. The guy was the king of cheap heat, the guy was Captain charisma before Christian. The guy had zero in ring ability, and to this day believes that charisma sells more then athletic ability. Beyond the backstage nonsense of the joke/clown he has become known, this is the guy that believed Benoit was no good as champion, this was the guy that thought the Death of McMahon was one of the greatest things ever. See where I'm going, this guy appreciates the antics outside of teh ring moreso then in the ring.

    Lou Thesz would not only beat Hayes, he would stretch him in ways never thought possible. He'll probably break his nose and then Hayes would be really shit out of luck. No way to snort coke with a broken nose.
     
    #6
  7. My$terio_Fan

    My$terio_Fan I can do whatever I want

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    This is a legend tournament so Thesz get's this easily. Not only was he the better rounded wrestler than Hayes, and accomplished more than him, his legacy is because of his actual ability and not because of other stuff. Michael Hayes was a good entertainer back in the day. He wasn;t anything rare or extrodinary but he was good. The reason he is known today is because of the Hardys and because he is known as a racist, not because he's a legend.
     
    #7
  8. Dead Kennedy

    Dead Kennedy Forever Holly

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    Lou Thesz is one of the pioneers of professional wrestling. I've never seen any match featuring Thesz but his name alone is legend. How many moves did he innovate again? I've read enough on Thesz to know that he was a great wrestler, and that's good enough for me.

    Michael "P.S." Hayes was damn awesome as a Freebird, I'll give him that. He's got good mic skills and charisma and could really draw a crowd into a match. But sorry, Hayes is a bonafide legend for sure, but this is LOU THESZ we're talking about it. Few to none can beat Thesz' legendary status.
     
    #8
  9. Shadowmancer

    Shadowmancer I am The Last Baron

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    Lou Thesz wins this easily, he is one of the 6 names that have shaped wrestling to be what it is today, other names on that list include Georg Hackenschmidt, Frank Gotch, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Gorgeous George. It is Thesz though that makes it truly the "sport" that we all enjoy and argue over. Thesz is the definition of a travelling champ. he went everywhere, including to help Rikidozan in Japan.
     
    #9
  10. Fizzy

    Fizzy Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    This is easy for me, and my vote goes to Lou Thesz. This guy is so much better then Michael Hayes, and he is a true legend in this business. The only success Hayes has had is his tag team days. He is a horrible wrestler, and really never made an enormous impact on the wrestling business. The answer is obvious to me and that is Lou Thesz.
     
    #10
  11. I.R.S was ace

    I.R.S was ace Occasional Pre-Show

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    Thesz wins easy.
    Hayes was a tag wrestler that achieved little as a singles star so when going 1-on-1 with a great he gets destroyed.
     
    #11
  12. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    Results: 23-1 in favor of Thesz. Thesz faces Harley Race in Round 2.

    my thoughts: I'm surprised Hayes got even 1 vote. He was charsmatic as part of a Tag Team, that's all he had going for him. He had a crappy singles run and he just isn't that good. All that gets said about him is he isa racist anyways. As for Thesz I can't top what Gelgarin said in the first respose I got to this thread so I won't try. Go see his post for all the reasons Thesz won this match.
     
    #12
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