No Ric Flair

[NOLUBEZ]

First off I apologize if this topic has come up I haven't it seen though. Ric Flair is legendary and has inspired alot of guys and maybe some women to become wrestlers. I personally am not his biggest fan, I respect him and appreciate what he has done for wrestling, but what if in Oct. 1975 he had become permanently paralyzed or even worse died?

How would wrestling be as we know it if hadn't recovered properly? Hogan wouldn't have been affected he still would've been a household name.

Think about the 4 Horsemen, Sting's Career, Biggest star of NWA/WCW during the 80's/early 90's. I could go on forever with what ifs and how woulds because I personally think it would have caused a chain of events that would affected wrestling up until this very day. No Horsemen = No DX, No Flair = Maybe No HBK

How would Flair not recovering or not surving that plane crash affect wrestling history as we know it.

 

[Thugz417]

First off I apologize if this topic has come up I haven't it seen though. Ric Flair is legendary and has inspired alot of guys and maybe some women to become wrestlers. I personally am not his biggest fan, I respect him and appreciate what he has done for wrestling, but what if in Oct. 1975 he had become permanently paralyzed or even worse died?

How would wrestling be as we know it if hadn't recovered properly? Hogan wouldn't have been affected he still would've been a household name.

Think about the 4 Horsemen, Sting's Career, Biggest star of NWA/WCW during the 80's/early 90's. I could go on forever with what ifs and how woulds because I personally think it would have caused a chain of events that would affected wrestling up until this very day. No Horsemen = No DX, No Flair = Maybe No HBK

How would Flair not recovering or not surving that plane crash affect wrestling history as we know it.

First let's get one thing straight. You can't put the horsemen and DX in the same category. Last I checked the horsemen were around for a very very long time. While they may have "assisted" in the creation of DX they didn't MAKE D-X. (who exactly from the horsemen is a DX member?)

And also you can't say that Flair elevated Sting's career entirely. Last I checked Sting had quite a few memorable matches in the 80's/90's that had no Ric Flair involvement. Yes sting was a horsemen for a while but just because you are a horsemen doesn't mean Ric Flair gives u a GREAT/LEGENDARY career..... *hey anyone hear from Steve "Mongo" McMichael? he was a horsemen..I don't see him with legendary status. Honestly if Ric had been permanently injured/killed it would have set the wrestling industry back maybe 5 years but let's face it, did Ric Flair make the WWE/WWF what it is? No. Did he make the WCW what it was? Nope.

One COULD argue that point that Flair made WCW, BUT let's face it. Hogan was there, the dungeon of doom was their. Anyone remember that great Doomsday match? Flair did HELP people's careers but let's face it. D-X would have formed regardless.

And FTR HBK made HBK. Ric Flair did jack shit for HBK. If you have ANY doubt about that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Michaels

If ANYTHING the Guerrero family help HBK by giving the "Midnight Rockers" a tag title shot. HBK's superstar/legendary status is in no way shape or form affected by Ric Flair. Well no I take that back...HBK did "retire" Flair..


My

 

[NOLUBEZ]

What I Meant was without Flair there wouldn't have been the Horsemen and I think you'll find that Flair was HBK's main inspiration to get involved with wrestling he has said it many times. Sting vs. Flair at the original clash pretty much solidified Sting's main event run it wasn't the only factor but it was... without a shadow of a doubt a big part in his future success....... ask Sting

 

[finneycom1]

First let's get one thing straight. You can't put the horsemen and DX in the same category. Last I checked the horsemen were around for a very very long time. While they may have "assisted" in the creation of DX they didn't MAKE D-X. (who exactly from the horsemen is a DX member?)

And also you can't say that Flair elevated Sting's career entirely. Last I checked Sting had quite a few memorable matches in the 80's/90's that had no Ric Flair involvement. Yes sting was a horsemen for a while but just because you are a horsemen doesn't mean Ric Flair gives u a GREAT/LEGENDARY career..... *hey anyone hear from Steve "Mongo" McMichael? he was a horsemen..I don't see him with legendary status. Honestly if Ric had been permanently injured/killed it would have set the wrestling industry back maybe 5 years but let's face it, did Ric Flair make the WWE/WWF what it is? No. Did he make the WCW what it was? Nope.

One COULD argue that point that Flair made WCW, BUT let's face it. Hogan was there, the dungeon of doom was their. Anyone remember that great Doomsday match? Flair did HELP people's careers but let's face it. D-X would have formed regardless.

And FTR HBK made HBK. Ric Flair did jack shit for HBK. If you have ANY doubt about that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Michaels

If ANYTHING the Guerrero family help HBK by giving the "Midnight Rockers" a tag title shot. HBK's superstar/legendary status is in no way shape or form affected by Ric Flair. Well no I take that back...HBK did "retire" Flair..


My

First off, Flair had a ton, A TON, to do with where Sting is today. Does Sting owe his whole career to Flair? No, but damn close. There was not one wrestler in the NWA back in '88/'89 that Sting could have had those memorable matches with, that elevated him as much as Flair did. Take those matches that they had, that put Sting in a whole new level than the rest of those cats. I truly feel Sting would NOT be where he is today had it not been for those feuds with Flair.

Did Flair make WCW? No, but he made, MADE the NWA. NWA turned into WCW and then they were able to pull other talent away. If it wasnt for Flair, they never would have been interested in going to WCW.

The 4 Horsemen paived the way for the later stables that came in. I feel that the NWO had more to do with DX forming than anybody else. If you watch some of the DVD"S, WWE noticed the attitude that the NWO brought to the table and needed something to counter it. Thus, we were given D-X.

Flair only had personal influences on Shawn Michaels. Michaels made a name for himself with the Rockers then went on his own.

However, you can owe a ton to Ric Flair for his early involvement in making WCW what it was and turned into. Giving us the Monday Night Wars and launching wrestling where it is today. It was just more of an indirect affect. Hell, in some ways, I think Flair had more influence on wrestling's success than Hogan. Not in all ways, but some!

 

[Thugz417]

First off, Flair had a ton, A TON, to do with where Sting is today. Does Sting owe his whole career to Flair? No, but damn close. There was not one wrestler in the NWA back in '88/'89 that Sting could have had those memorable matches with, that elevated him as much as Flair did. Take those matches that they had, that put Sting in a whole new level than the rest of those cats. I truly feel Sting would NOT be where he is today had it not been for those feuds with Flair.

Did Flair make WCW? No, but he made, MADE the NWA. NWA turned into WCW and then they were able to pull other talent away. If it wasnt for Flair, they never would have been interested in going to WCW.

The 4 Horsemen paived the way for the later stables that came in. I feel that the NWO had more to do with DX forming than anybody else. If you watch some of the DVD"S, WWE noticed the attitude that the NWO brought to the table and needed something to counter it. Thus, we were given D-X.

Flair only had personal influences on Shawn Michaels. Michaels made a name for himself with the Rockers then went on his own.

However, you can owe a ton to Ric Flair for his early involvement in making WCW what it was and turned into. Giving us the Monday Night Wars and launching wrestling where it is today. It was just more of an indirect affect. Hell, in some ways, I think Flair had more influence on wrestling's success than Hogan. Not in all ways, but some!

Not to deviate from the subject matters but if your bringing up the monday night wars. The primary catalyst behind the success of WCW was Eric Bischoff. Not Flair, not Hogan, Not Sting (per say). Bischoff made all the changes happen. He brought in all the talent, showed Nitro 5-10 minutes early to give away WWE/WWFs results. To my knowledge the biggest blow to the WWF during the Monday Night Wars was Hall/Nash/Hogan defecting and WCW gained on that at bash at the beach when hogan turned traitor. While Flair and the horsemen were involved in the NWO angle the main target was STING. As much as noone wants to admit it the but sole results of the NWO "invasion" angle was making Sting appear to be a God like image and to killl the WWF/WWE. Let's face it. It wasn't Flair falling from the rafters to save WCW, it was STING. Sting and the NWO were the main forces driving the Monday Night Wars. The people didnt turn in to see Ric Flair they tuned in to see if the Scorpion Sting (black/white face paint) would FINALLY get his hands on HOGAN. Flair didn't fit into the equation except during War Games with Luger/Double A/and Flair vs the NWO but still that revolved around Sting.

NOW... Back To Flair. Yes it's true he has done a lot for the wrestling world but to say that because he was someones personal inspiration he must be thanked for this person (Flair being HBK's "inspiration") think about that. Are we going to say that basketball is what it is today because of Michael Jordan? Because he is Kobe and Lebron's "inspiration" he is suddenly the reason that Kobe and Lebron are so great? No. everyone makes a name for themselves.

I'm not denying that Flair has done a lot, but what younger talent did he put over? I mean let's face it, 16 (I thought it was 17 and I thought I heard Flair say 17 in several interviews) world title reigns is really screwed up when you think of the level of talent on the rosters at the times he won the title. Flair gave a lot to the business BUT at the same time he was quite selfish about it. Just my opinion I know I'm going to hear about it eventually haha.

 

[DDPK7]

i think someone who woud have had a bigger impact if he had never been a wrestler or was seriously injured early on would have been Stu Hart, he influenced a lot more careers than Dick Flair, lets face it people like Bret, Owen, Chris Jericho, Lance Storm, Brian Pillman, Chris Benoit, Davey Boy Smith and more. So Stu Hart is a lot of more influencial than Flair ever was

 

[finneycom1]

Not to deviate from the subject matters but if your bringing up the monday night wars. The primary catalyst behind the success of WCW was Eric Bischoff. Not Flair, not Hogan, Not Sting (per say). Bischoff made all the changes happen. He brought in all the talent, showed Nitro 5-10 minutes early to give away WWE/WWFs results. To my knowledge the biggest blow to the WWF during the Monday Night Wars was Hall/Nash/Hogan defecting and WCW gained on that at bash at the beach when hogan turned traitor. While Flair and the horsemen were involved in the NWO angle the main target was STING. As much as noone wants to admit it the but sole results of the NWO "invasion" angle was making Sting appear to be a God like image and to killl the WWF/WWE. Let's face it. It wasn't Flair falling from the rafters to save WCW, it was STING. Sting and the NWO were the main forces driving the Monday Night Wars. The people didnt turn in to see Ric Flair they tuned in to see if the Scorpion Sting (black/white face paint) would FINALLY get his hands on HOGAN. Flair didn't fit into the equation except during War Games with Luger/Double A/and Flair vs the NWO but still that revolved around Sting.

NOW... Back To Flair. Yes it's true he has done a lot for the wrestling world but to say that because he was someones personal inspiration he must be thanked for this person (Flair being HBK's "inspiration") think about that. Are we going to say that basketball is what it is today because of Michael Jordan? Because he is Kobe and Lebron's "inspiration" he is suddenly the reason that Kobe and Lebron are so great? No. everyone makes a name for themselves.

I'm not denying that Flair has done a lot, but what younger talent did he put over? I mean let's face it, 16 (I thought it was 17 and I thought I heard Flair say 17 in several interviews) world title reigns is really screwed up when you think of the level of talent on the rosters at the times he won the title. Flair gave a lot to the business BUT at the same time he was quite selfish about it. Just my opinion I know I'm going to hear about it eventually haha.[/QUOT

I didnt say he was the single reason we got the Monday Night Wars. I said he was who made NWA. Which in turn was WCW and ignited the MOnday Night Wars. Notice I said he impacted that "indirectly."

I also said the Flair was a personal influence on Michaels, but Flair had 0% to do with Michaels ability and where he is today. After the Rockers, everything Michaels accomplished was 100% Shawn Michaels.

 

[Gabbo]

Lot of rubbish being spoken in this thread.


Flair never really changed anything, a few other guys would have had more title reigns thats it. He carried the NWA for a while, but only because he was pushed as the best, there were others that could have filled that position. Then WCW and WWE are very forgettable times as far as I'm concerned. No real impact at all. Didn't ever put anyone over successfully, never made anyone look great (other than Sting and Steamboat who made themselves look great), very selfish and that's proved by booking himself to be world champion on numerous occasions, even when your star has faded and the fans hate you. On a personal level not as a heel.

Fact is, if the Magnum TA tragedy hadn't occurred Flair's star would have been lucky to be half as bright as it is. Magnum was gonna be Hogan huge and drag the NWA up to the stars with him. Flair just managed to maintain a status quo.

Flair has been lucky to have the career he has. He was never as good as he's made out. Friendships and booking power have allowed him to delude even himself.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Wow, you can always tell when the posters are under the age of 25 LOL

First, without Flair Crockett Promotions probably flounders quickly. Harley Race was old, the company had no villain who even came close to drawing like Flair. The old WWF never outdrew in Crocket's home towns any cards Flair was on until long after the company became Turner's and Flair was downplayed.

Dusty Rhodes certainly had a great career before Flair but their fued was one of the biggest things in the decade of the 1980's. Pro Wrestling Illustrated named it Fued Of The Decade for crying out loud. Dusty's career loses some luster without Flair.

Hogan would have become big without Flair but he never would have had the second act he had in WCW without Flair. Both as a fan favorite and then joining the NWO Hogan never would have even been there w/out Flair, the man behind the scenes who convinced him to join the company then did everything under the sun to make him look good on TV. WIth Vince's youth movement in full swing in the 90's, does Hogan have the great Pt 2 to his career w/out Flair ?

STing became a superstar by wrestling Flair, same w/ Luger. You may not Luger due to his mediocre ring performances but no doubt he was one of the industry's biggest stars in the 90's, his association with Flair from 87-90 was what made him a main event star, same with Sting. Sting has had a great career but he never topped the success he had with Flair, maybe he could have with Hogan if it would have been booked better but that's another thread.

Plus, with Flair who serves as the influence for HBK & HHH ? HBK was floundering after the AWA folded, stuck in a too small tag team with an outdated gimmick they stole from The Rock & Roll Express. His subsequent singles run and heel turn were based on Flair's character. HBK has stated in several interviews that his HeartBreak Kid character was just an update on The Nature Boy, being quoted as saying he stole often from Flair and tried to reinvent it as his own. Anybody doubt HHH did the same, heck the whole Evolution Story was HHH trying onscreen to recreate himself as Flair, wrestling's greatest champion. If there's no HHH and no Evolution, where are Batista & Orton right now ?

Finally, I love ppl who say Flair had all this booking power, when was this ? When Dusty was ttrying to bury him in the late 80's, when Jim Herd wanted to re-name him Spartacus in th eearly 90's, certainly not in th elate 90's under Eric Bischoff, a guy who in part owed his job to Flair, the guy who put him over to WCW mgt for his creativity and actively recruited Hogan & Savage to join the company, then routinely put them over on TV. Wonder what happens to Bischoff w/out Flair returning to WCW and saving the company from near extinction in 1993 ?