NFL Rookie Hazing: Do We Need It?

[TheOneBigWill]

So, this was taken from nfl.com

SAN ANTONIO -- Dallas Cowboys rookie wide receiver Dez Bryant said he's in training camp to catch passes, not carry somebody else's shoulder pads after practice.

When wideout Roy Williams handed his pads to Bryant on Sunday after the Cowboys' morning session, the first-round draft pick didn't carry them. Veteran players traditionally hand their pads to a rookie after practice.

"I feel like I was drafted to play football, not carry another player's pads," Bryant said. "If I was a free agent, it would still be the same thing."

Williams said every rookie has go to through such rituals during their first NFL season. He said he carried pads and paid for meals when he was a rookie for the Detroit Lions in 2004.

"No matter if you're a No. 1 pick or the 7,000th pick, you've still got to do something when you're a rookie," Williams said.

When Bill Parcells was with the Cowboys, the team's top pick was responsible for taking water to the coach during breaks at training camp. Current coach Wade Phillips doesn't have such a requirement.

While some believe Bryant could challenge Williams for the starting job opposite Pro Bowl receiver Miles Austin, there have been no apparent issues between the receivers. After camp opened Saturday with a practice without pads, Williams called Bryant a great player and said he was glad the Cowboys drafted the former Oklahoma State star.

"Controversy is what everybody loves, try to pin him against me, me against him, and it's not going to work," Williams said Saturday.

I say; bravo, Mr. Bryant. This is the first story (at least from this year) where I've read of a Rookie not wanting any part of the stupidity that is "Rookie Hazing". And my main question of topic is.. whats the point? And is it really needed?

Personally, I think Herm Edwards was onto something with this little clip..

[youtube]IMk5sMHj58I[/youtube]​

Now, while that was directed at a slightly different subject - the overall point is the same. Whether you're a rookie, a young guy who's been in the league a few years, or a Vet going on your last legs.. you're in this sport, to play the game, to win the game.

Personally I think Roy Williams is a flippin' moron. Even if I was a 7th round pick, still somehow holding onto making the team roster - I wouldn't be carrying HIS bags, pads, or anything else. This is a guy (Williams) who is going to be lucky to BE a starter this year, and he's complaining that Bryant (the likely future of the Cowboys at this position) isn't wanting to take part in a rookie hazing of carrying his pads.

So I ask again - what purpose, does rookie hazing have? And why in this situation, was it made such a big deal out of when one 1st round rookie didn't want to take part?

Last time I checked, you draft players because of their skill at playing the sport. Not because you hope one day soon after drafting them, you can make fun of them in a light hearted manner.

Your thoughts?

 

[Big Sexy]

This is something that has gone on in professional sports for a while now. As a rookie in sports you haven't proven shit. And in the NFL in the case of guys like Bryant, who are first rounders, they are getting overpaid after not proving shit. This is just a little reminder that these guys aren't big stars yet.

Honestly there isn't some profound purpose for it and I don't really think it's a big deal if a team does it or not. But in Bryant's case the team does do it and the fact he didn't participate makes him come off like he's above it. Whether it's fair or not it isn't going to win him any points with his teammates. In the long run this story will go away in a few days and minor hazing at the pro level will still go on. It has become sort of a tradition for incoming rookies and it's nothing more then that.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

As a rookie in sports you haven't proven shit.

Except that you excelled at your position in College, sometimes with greater numbers than those you're following into the Pro's in comparison to their own college numbers.

Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you're worthless. It also doesn't make you great, however college numbers are to rookies as a job application's education section is to applying for a career of your choice. The better it looks, the more chance you have of making people believe you're something more than "shit".

Last thing I believe any career/business would want - would be to make their future prospect believe they're nothing more than a joke to those already working for them.

And in the NFL in the case of guys like Bryant, who are first rounders, they are getting overpaid after not proving shit.

Then wouldn't the guys getting hazed need to be the Agents, and not the players? Afterall, players aren't the individuals working out the contracts. Yes, they want a ton of money - everyone does, even declining vets (see T.O.) however in most situations they aren't the guys working out the official contract.

And once again, if a Team (as in the Front Office) pays you this money, whether you've proven anything or not - clearly they're in belief you're worth something to take the chance. So once again, what the other players think - isn't really important as it relates to contract situations.

And if you think otherwise - ask yourself this.. at your own job, do you get upset that you don't make more than the person who was hired for a different position? If so, have you done a type of 'hazing' to the new-hire to show your disrespectful nature?

This is just a little reminder that these guys aren't big stars yet.

No one is a big star when they first start - but you'd be surprised how much a single rookie can turn quickly into the leader, and star, of a team. (See; Matt Ryan, Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, etc.)

Honestly there isn't some profound purpose for it and I don't really think it's a big deal if a team does it or not. But in Bryant's case the team does do it and the fact he didn't participate makes him come off like he's above it.

I don't think him not agreeing to do it makes him seem "better than them". I think it's him showing that he doesn't feel he was brought into their team to play immature games, and he was brought in to play the game - to win their team a Superbowl.

In this case, something Roy Williams is likely the last person on the team to do. Bryant; upon coming into the Cowboys - got his deal done early, showed up to camp, even took time to learn with Romo through going the extra mile in doing so..

So, no, I don't feel Bryant feels better than anyone. I feel he wants to win a Championship and views what Williams did as immature and stupid. I couldn't agree more. Perhaps Williams should take a page out of the rookie's book, and try (you know) learning more connections with Romo.

Whether it's fair or not it isn't going to win him any points with his teammates.

You show me what Teammates that get upset over this - and I'll show you the same individuals who're likely on the bubble for making the team, or keeping their starting position.

Anyone on the actual team; who gets upset over this - is focusing too hard on whats not important.

In the long run this story will go away in a few days and minor hazing at the pro level will still go on. It has become sort of a tradition for incoming rookies and it's nothing more then that.

This type of thing has gone on in the history of everything, be it High School, sports, or anything else. However the point isn't how long has it gone on - its what purpose does it serve.

In Football, specifically.. you kinda hit it. Its older players who're acting immature, upset over not getting as much money, and wanting to show the rookies "who the real top guy" is. Yet.. thats not always the case, and a lot of the time - these rookies (especially 1st round guys) are individuals that come in and quickly help their team's out. Bryant is likely going to be one of those guys.. and even if he doesn't become the Rookie of the Year - I would almost be willing to say he'll post better numbers than Williams.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Stupid, pointless, useless old world way of doing things. "Fuck you, carry your own pads, ill fucking kill you" would have been my response. Roy Williams fucking sucks anyway.

Bryant did what he (and I) felt was right, and there is nothing requiring these guys to do anything. This isnt a frat house, its the fucking National Football League. Doing something just becuase "well I had to do it" is about the most non progressive dumbass way of thinking there is. It is NEVER a good idea to carry on something that isnt right just becuase "well its always been done that way"

Dez Bryant is a football player, and besides play football, he doesnt HAVE to do shit.

 

[Megatron]

For the most part, I think hazing is quite stupid. I've heard stories of rookies getting taped to a goal-post and other dumb shit, and I find that uneccessary. However, little things like carrying a vet's pads or getting everyone water, I don't have a problem with. I don't give a shit if the guy is gonna be the ROTY candidate, he should show some respect to the veterans. I've also heard about things like the rookies all singing a karaoke song, which is another thing I don't have a problem with. Rookies should show these guys a little bit of respect, as the next season it'll be the other way around with those rookies help hazing.

So, in this situation, I think he should've took Williams pads, as a sign of respect. Yes, he is here to play football, just like everyone else, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to go through the rookie rituals.

 

[People's Champ]

Do we need it? Well, it doesn't affect me in any way so I don't care.

Is it stupid? Yea I would say it is. But this has been going on for decades. This is a sign of respect and Bryant just needs to go along with it. He's not getting his ass beat or anything, its just pads. Just do it and get it over with. To sit here and get all upset over something that we are not apart of is stupid in itself. This is just what happens. Its about respect. As a rookie who has proven nothing in the NFL and getting millions, its just a way to show them their place. No big deal.

And if he's going to get uptight about this, then he should not be apart of the hazing that will go on next year and the years to come.

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't really see the problem in it either way. For years rookies have been hazed and it's seemed to go fine. It's a rite of passage for professional athletes and it helps build unity in the team. At one point or another everyone has gone through the hazing process and it helps to bond them together. It may be annoying to the rookies, but considering its for a few days at camp rather than their entire careers, I really don't think it hurts anything overall.

 

[Big Sexy]

Except that you excelled at your position in College, sometimes with greater numbers than those you're following into the Pro's in comparison to their own college numbers.

Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you're worthless. It also doesn't make you great, however college numbers are to rookies as a job application's education section is to applying for a career of your choice. The better it looks, the more chance you have of making people believe you're something more than "shit".

Last thing I believe any career/business would want - would be to make their future prospect believe they're nothing more than a joke to those already working for them.



Then wouldn't the guys getting hazed need to be the Agents, and not the players? Afterall, players aren't the individuals working out the contracts. Yes, they want a ton of money - everyone does, even declining vets (see T.O.) however in most situations they aren't the guys working out the official contract.

And once again, if a Team (as in the Front Office) pays you this money, whether you've proven anything or not - clearly they're in belief you're worth something to take the chance. So once again, what the other players think - isn't really important as it relates to contract situations.

And if you think otherwise - ask yourself this.. at your own job, do you get upset that you don't make more than the person who was hired for a different position? If so, have you done a type of 'hazing' to the new-hire to show your disrespectful nature?



No one is a big star when they first start - but you'd be surprised how much a single rookie can turn quickly into the leader, and star, of a team. (See; Matt Ryan, Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, etc.)



I don't think him not agreeing to do it makes him seem "better than them". I think it's him showing that he doesn't feel he was brought into their team to play immature games, and he was brought in to play the game - to win their team a Superbowl.

In this case, something Roy Williams is likely the last person on the team to do. Bryant; upon coming into the Cowboys - got his deal done early, showed up to camp, even took time to learn with Romo through going the extra mile in doing so..

So, no, I don't feel Bryant feels better than anyone. I feel he wants to win a Championship and views what Williams did as immature and stupid. I couldn't agree more. Perhaps Williams should take a page out of the rookie's book, and try (you know) learning more connections with Romo.



You show me what Teammates that get upset over this - and I'll show you the same individuals who're likely on the bubble for making the team, or keeping their starting position.

Anyone on the actual team; who gets upset over this - is focusing too hard on whats not important.



This type of thing has gone on in the history of everything, be it High School, sports, or anything else. However the point isn't how long has it gone on - its what purpose does it serve.

In Football, specifically.. you kinda hit it. Its older players who're acting immature, upset over not getting as much money, and wanting to show the rookies "who the real top guy" is. Yet.. thats not always the case, and a lot of the time - these rookies (especially 1st round guys) are individuals that come in and quickly help their team's out. Bryant is likely going to be one of those guys.. and even if he doesn't become the Rookie of the Year - I would almost be willing to say he'll post better numbers than Williams.

Goddamn you are thinking way too much into this. Professional sports are not like any other job so the comparisons are not relevant in this situation. The fact remains that nearly every rookie has to go through this in one or another and the players that are putting them through it all did the same thing.

Is it stupid? Of course it is but it's also tradition and it's not like Bryant was asked to do something crazy, he just had to carry someones pads. None of the other Cowboys rookies seemed to have a problem with it, or at least that hasn't been reported. Dez Bryant has been treated like a king in Dallas and it wouldn't have hurt him to carry the pads. I have a feeling that if this was someone respected like Demarcus Ware or Tony Romo that he turned down then some people's opinions would have changed.

 

[16mikeytot]

Well I'll start off by saying yeah it's a tradition sort of I played high school football and stuff like that occured when I was a senior we had guys well the seniors that would mess with the sophomores that were on the team. I'm currently playing college football and im a freshman and im yet to see any of that stuff happen. Coaches seem too mess with you alot more than the older players. It's a tradition in the Nfl you see rookies carrying vets pads all the time on the Nfl Network. Even in other sports like the Nba I've seen rookies having to gather all the balls after practice. So it's not a big deal and Dez should of just done it because now he's just made it worst on himself.

 

[Davi323]

This isn't hazing. What the military used to do to cadets? That was hazing. What sororities and fraternities did during pledge week? That was hazing. What you see the seniors do to the freshmen in Dazed and Confused? That was hazing. This isn't even remotely close. Carrying around pads is not hazing. Getting coaches coffee is not hazing. This is like two brothers walking down the road to school, and the older brother making the little brother carry his lunchbox. Call the hazing police!!!!

While these "traditions" don't really seem to be of any importance, who does Dez Bryant think he is? The fact that it was Roy Williams is completely irrelevant. Barry Sanders had to do things like this as a rookie, so did Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Jerry Rice. Why does Dez Bryant think he is better than any of them? He is a rookie. He is the lowest rung on the ladder. And the message he is sending to the Cowboys and to the entire NFL is that Dez Bryant thinks his shit don't shine, that he is better than everyone else. EVERYONE in the NFL was fucking drafted to play football...I don't know why Dez thinks he is the only one.

What kind of teamwork does he display, when he is unwilling to do something that everyone else on the team went through? This isn't him being tied to the goalpost and left for hours without end, this is carrying around padding, for pete's sake. This is Dez Bryant, being all about himself.

Dez, man up, be a good teammate. Show that you can endure a little embarrassment, just like everyone else had to do, for the sake of building a relationship with your team. Stop acting like a diva who thinks he is better than anyone else. There were already character issues with you before you were drafted. I understand that you think you are standing up for yourself...but at what cost? Is it worth alienating your teammates over?

 

[gd]

The thing is, the veteran in question is Roy Williams, who is a complete trashbag. If it was Jerry Rice who told Dez to carry his pads, you better believe he'd do it. The fact that Roy Williams sucks doesn't help his case here.

Like someoen said, this isn't really "hazing", it's just what rookies have done in the NFL for years. Is Dez going against that a big deal? Not really, for most people. But I'm sure some guys will be a little upset about it. I would've just carried the pads and be done with it. Because he didn't, he's made a big deal out of nothing.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

"Fuck you, carry your own pads, ill fucking kill you" would have been my response. Roy Williams fucking sucks anyway.

My thoughts exactley. Hazing is a stupid practice, they're in a fucking workplace so they should act like it. It's not really that big of a deal when you think about it, but if a rookie refuses to deal with the "hazing" then that's his choice, and he shouldn't get any shit for it. All in all a worthless, time wasting thing to do, I applaud Bryant for not punking out to that piece of shit Williams.

 

[CJ The Pirate]

From a British perspective, this seems pretty ridiculous. I don't think this happens in any of our national sports and it certainly isn't promoted as tradition if it is. I'd personally call this bullying, it certainly resembles it a lot.

I know a little about the American college fraternity lifestyle, it interests me as a concept and I can see how it can be a good thing for a college or university to have but as someone else said earlier... this is a Football League. Not a Frat House or a Sorority.

I'll hold my hands up and say I don't follow the NFL and know nothing about these players or the position but from what I've learned in this thread, Williams is seemingly in danger of losing his spot to this rookie. This sounds like a comination of denial and jealousy. Refusal to believe that his career is coming to an end. You see similar stuff on these forums pretty often, when in a debate, someone makes a valid point only for that point to either be ignored, taken out of context or made fun of. Twisted around to fit their requirements.
The Why is soccer not successful in USA thread shows plenty of that. One English poster wrote "Football is the greater game", meaning Soccer to which an American replied... yes, you are right" Consciously twisting the words to fit his argument. Pathetic. A clear sign of them realising they're beaten by a better person (poster/football player) and mocking them and degrading them so that others hopefully don't notice.

For me, this needs to be taken from the game. One criticism I've always had for American Football is the cocky attitudes of the players. They seem very loud and aggressive almost in a juvenile way. Perhaps this is a cultural difference. In England, we don't have the colleges and the fraternities so this status of being a 'Jock' is non existant. In fact the word means nothing in England. This is part of that. This so called hazing for the sake of hazing because it happened back when the current pros were rookies and the rookies before them... and them. That's completely redundant.

The way I see it, these sportsmen deserve nothing more than they already are getting. They kick or throw or hit a ball all day. This is a luxurious job and they are paid millions for it over their careers. Teachers, Firemen, Doctors, Soldiers... People who give life or save life or risk their lives are shafted in the meantime and despite all that they're still expecting to have their own personal slave to carry their pads?

The attitude in NFL is clearly all wrong.

 

[justinsayne]

Who really gives a shit, hazing has been a part of sports at just about all levels for god knows how long, it's just part of the game, as long as it doesn't get out of control who really gives a fuck, you're a rookie making millions of dollars just go with it, as far as I can tell based on everything I have ever seen on hazing in sports, if you just go with it right out of the gate, take it and just pay your dues, the vets tend to back off you, people who resist seem to draw more attention to themselves and end up getting the worst of it

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't hazing of any kind strengthens bonds between anyone exceot the guys that do the hazing. As a football player you prove yourself on the field. When a rookie comes in he has no professional claim to fame,and should be allowed to prove himself in the training camps,not by carrying some older guys luggage. Bonds of brotherhood are created when you work together,not when there's a hierarchy going on were the veterans put the rookies through unnecessary hardship just for their enjoyment. It's childish and outdated and it makes the veterans look quite immature in the long run.

 

[Stickstar 16]

The thing is its not really hazing, i mean its just rookie initiation, every sport has it from high school level to representative, its just that no one had TV reporters following them round when they did it. If it was something ridiculously cruel or unusual then i would be more than happy for someone to put a stop to it or say no but its just a simple issue of respect, and things like this tend to have an effect on team relationships and dynamics. I may not be the biggest fan of Roy, even though i'm a cowboys fan, i think Dez disrespecting him and the team was unnecessary, the fact of the matter is Bryant is a rookie, and every rookie before him had to do these sort of rituals to earn acceptance in the team, it shows you're a team player and that you are willing to scrounge a little to prove that you belong.

To be honest its more about the person than the ritual. Look at Tebow, he sported a friar tuck as part of a rookie ritual, one of the guys who ended up getting cut from a team had to wear multiple pads, and he did it with pride, because when you do that stuff you show respect and that you want to be in the team environment and you are willing to suffer a little for it. Something like paying for the veterans dinners, or having to sing your college's fight song while the veterans heckle you is character building. Bryant refusing to do something like carry a veteran's pads can potentially be harmful to not only himself and his team, but to the league. If one rookie is shown to be acting like he is better or at equal level to the veterans and senior members of the team, especially with the current generation which i am part of which already think that they're superior to everyone, they are going to come into a team and act like they are the big dog, and then the dynamics of your team is compromised. I'm not saying that abusing the rookies is good at all, but something little like carrying someones pads, or paying for veterans meals is good for building character and earning acceptance from your teammates.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I may not be the biggest fan of Roy, even though i'm a cowboys fan, i think Dez disrespecting him and the team was unnecessary

Disrespect him? By not carrying his pads? That's bullshit, if anyone was being disrespectful, it was Roy. It's not his responsibility to carry someone else's pads, whether he is a rookie or not.

the fact of the matter is Bryant is a rookie, and every rookie before him had to do these sort of rituals to earn acceptance in the team, it shows you're a team player and that you are willing to scrounge a little to prove that you belong.

Being a team player has nothing to do with carrying someone else's pads, or sporting a ridiculous haircut. A team player is a guy who works his ass off in practice, training camp, and on the field. This ritiualistic bullshit does nothing but embarrass rookies, and makes them feel inferior.

Bryant refusing to do something like carry a veteran's pads can potentially be harmful to not only himself and his team, but to the league.

Really? You think a simple "no" is going to harm an entire football team? And somehow create a riff in the NFL? I doubt anyone gave half a shit, in fact, I bet some veterans applauded the fact that he didn't do what he was told to do by another player, who is he no better than he.

If one rookie is shown to be acting like he is better or at equal level to the veterans and senior members of the team, especially with the current generation which i am part of which already think that they're superior to everyone, they are going to come into a team and act like they are the big dog, and then the dynamics of your team is compromised.

If anyone is acting superior, it's the veterans who tell the rookies to do these ridiculous things. They're not the fucking coach, they don't own the team, they're just players who don't have any fucking right to tell someone what to do.

I'm not saying that abusing the rookies is good at all, but something little like carrying someones pads, or paying for veterans meals is good for building character and earning acceptance from your teammates.

Those things shouldn't have anything to do with earning acceptance. Last time I checked, these guys are football players, they earn their respect by playing the game of football at a high level.

 

[Chardee Macdennis]

Well, better late than never. When this story broke, honestly, I couldn't believe Dez Bryant was refusing to carry Roy's pads. Granted, it's Roy Willams and he sucks beyond belief, but it's not really about that. It's about the fact that Roy and every other Vet already "made their bones" in the league, so to speak. As terrible as Roy is, he's still on the team, which means he's better than 95% of everyone who's ever strapped on a helmet. This simple task even being termed "hazing" is ridiculous to me. I could list all the activities I participated in as part of my fraternity to back up my point, but no one wants to read that mess. Bottom line is this, anyone that's participated in any organized sport knows that the carrying of pads and such is not meant to embarrass or belittle anyone, it is simply a way of testing new players to the team. If you are willing to suck it up and do what you're asked, your teamates are going to have that much more confidence that you will do the same on the field, when it counts. In my mind, this is really silly and Dez should just step the fuck up and get it done.