New Jack incidents real or a work?

[FromGlasgow]

I have been a wrestling fan for well over 30 years and think I have been watching it as long as I have been walking,
By this point obviously I understand how heels and faces work and how their playing a character and whenever I hear threats of wanting to kill their oponent etc in pre match interviews for the most part I understand they don't actually mean it and just a way to hype a match.
Theres one guy I have always been unsure about though called New Jack whenever he has said he wants to kill or tried to kill someone in the ring I'm honestly not sure if I believe him or not.
He's either an incredible actor and his character is all planned out in a huge work or he is a legitimate bad ass and an actual danger to his work collegues.

Some of his career highlights include...
The Mass Transit incident, He cut the guy so much that the guy could have bled to death and he later did die which his family claim was a result from depression stemming from New Jack,

Stabbing another wrestler William Jason Lane 9 times with a real knife, I'm puzzled as to why he wasn't charged with attempted murder,

Trying to kill a 70 year old wrestler named Gypsy Joe with violent weapons to a ridiculous extent,

Intentionally messing up a planned 40ft scaffold fall by throwing Vic Grimmes too hard to miss the tables with the plan of injuring or killing him to get revenge for a previous incident.

In interviews I have watched he always seems quite honest in the fact that he tried to kill all these people and adding to that is that he's meant to have commited four justifyable homicides.
Shooting for real on an oponent who messed up has always been known in wrestling but not to the extent where someone almost died.

In saying all this if he was suposedly this dangerous why has he never been arrested for any of these incidents or why has the industry not black listed him he even got work after these incidents with a mainstream company TNA or even other wrestlers not refuse to work with him I have never really heard anyone speak badly of him but perhaps thats due to fear.

I wonder anyone elses opinion, If this is real or not? Maybe I'm being a complete mark.

 

[jpickens]

Both in other words he simply took advantage of nobody taking wrestling serious anymore and took liberties like so many other wrestlers of late 90s and early 2000s did.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

He wasn't trying to kill them, he was assaulting them. If he'd have been trying to kill them they would have died.

 

[mankind72]

Well some may have been a work but messing up the 17 year old kid and stabbing him repeatedly was no work and the Vic Grimmes incident was no work, he intended to mess him up badly or kill him. New Jack is not a very nice person. sure a lot of guys took liberties in the late 90's but he genuinely wouldnt care if someone had died with what he did. I;m only sorry no one stabbed him or threw him deliberately from 40 feet onto hiis head

 

[stingray11214]

The problem with New Jack was that he took things too far. And, he never knew when enough was truly enough. Few companies want ANYTHING to do with him. This is how much of a pariah and a liability New Jack has become. Let us look at the Mass Transit incident. The fault should be laid at the feet of one Paul Heyman. Had he properly vetted Mass Transit, and not gave into the bravado that the kid and his father was dishing out, the entire trajectory of ECW might have been far different. The kid would never have been in a position to piss off an entire locker room to the point where somebody might want to hurt him.

Wellll, guess what happened? Instead of following rookie etiquette and letting the vets call the match, Mass Transit decided to show them in the ring who was boss. And, New Jack promptly taught him how the real world operated. Was he justified? Teaching him a lesson with a few strong shots would have done the trick. Trying to carve him up like a Thanksgiving turkey was far beyond overkill. Yes, Mass Transit deserved a BEATING. If he pulled what he pulled in ANY Territory, he would have gotten the holy hell kicked out of him. And, you would have probably have never seen him again. However, he did NOT deserve what New Jack did to him. And, that lies at the feet of Paul Heyman, even though New Jack is, deservedly I might add, paying the price for his indiscretion.

 

[Makaveli31]

The fault should be laid at the feet of one Paul Heyman. Had he properly vetted Mass Transit, and not gave into the bravado that the kid and his father was dishing out, the entire trajectory of ECW might have been far different. The kid would never have been in a position to piss off an entire locker room to the point where somebody might want to hurt him.

How do properly vet a last minute replacement? It's not like they brought him in from somewhere and the guy was a legit 300 plus pounds. He was only supposed to "stand in" on the apron anyway. He was the one who wanted get color not New Jack. Still, it was up to New Jack and D-Von to put the match together as veterans. Heyman was not in the dressing room. This was ECW. It was the Wild West where anything goes. That shit would have flown in the WWF or WCW but we're talking about a piece of shit Indy fed doing business in a run down bingo hall with guys being paid in drugs and IOU's.

 

[Makaveli31]

As far as New Jack the guy is a piece of shit coward like Bradshaw and Holly. He didn't pull that shit with Bubba Ray, or D-Von, or Perry Saturn. He did it to rookies, job guys and people lower on the totem pole than him. How ANYONE in their right mind would get in the ring with an admitted drug addict is beyond me but it shows just how desperate these people are. He didn't do this in the parking lot either. He did it IN THE RING with his victims literally giving him their bodies. That's the worst part. These guys didn't know what was coming. So he hides behind the "scripted" aspect of the business. He can tell a court they agreed to it. He disrespected so many people it's amazing he's still alive. What he did to Teri Runnels is beyond disgusting. Keep that garbage to yourself. To put that out there is disgraceful. He is definitely a pariah in the business. I doubt he can even go to conventions.

 

[enviousdominous]

The Mass Transit incident, He cut the guy so much that the guy could have bled to death and he later did die which his family claim was a result from depression stemming from New Jack

There's some backstory to this that we should be aware of, though I'm not saying that New Jack was justified in what he did.

Most of us know that the kid (he was 17 at the time) basically came up to Paul Heyman when they were missing a person and lied about his experience as a prowrestler. Most of us don't know that the kid believed that he was entitled enough to wander through backstage and behave like he was one of the regulars. It came out in court that the kid used the n-word multiple times in his chat with New Jack (he admitted it under oath), and New Jack has mentioned that the kid felt like it was his place to tell New Jack how to perform. The jury during the criminal trial was made up of all Black people by the way, needless to say New Jack was found Not Guilty.

Apparently the kid asked New Jack "Can you give me some color?" as a means of asking New Jack to cut him during the match. When the kid initially took the shots to the head, he didn't realize how bad it was. You can see him lift his head and smile, only to show a genuine look of horror when he realized that actual flesh was hanging off his forehead.

New Jack lost his shit, Paul Heyman is a motherfucking MORON, and for the record that kid used all the money he got from a successful civil suit to pay for a gastric bypass. His death was due to complications from the surgery, I don't want to hear any bullshit about "depression".

Stabbing another wrestler William Jason Lane 9 times with a real knife, I'm puzzled as to why he wasn't charged with attempted murder.

Stabbing another human being is wrong. Alright? Let it be known that I do not think that New Jack was right to stab that stupid sack of shit.

Now then; calling William Jason Lane a "wrestler" is like calling JBL a "color commentator". That guy had no experience whatsoever with someone who had New Jack's level of fame, and he wanted to build a reputation for himself by manhandling New Jack. He knew exactly what New Jack was famous for doing, and he wanted to use that as a resume buffer.

I'm not a wrestler, but I have close friends who are. According to them; if you're going in there with a more experienced performer, you let them dictate the pace and content of the match. William ran in there and started delivering stiff shots, and then tried dumping New Jack over the top rope. No pre-game negotiations beforehand, he wanted to be the guy who made New Jack his bitch.

New Jack was likely (by his own account) on cocaine when the incident occurred. New Jack was charged with attempted murder, but William offered him a deal. William would drop the charges if New Jack would be willing to train him. New Jack very happily agreed, and promptly left Florida as quickly as he could when the charges were dropped and the two men haven't spoken since.

Trying to kill a 70 year old wrestler named Gypsy Joe with violent weapons to a ridiculous extent.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Gyspy Joe is semi-decent wrestler who thinks that he's the toughest man alive and will go to great lengths to prove that, and in every instance he only proves how stupid and pathetic he is. Don't think I'm being fair in my assessment of his worth as a human? He wrestled for a long long time, and he's only noteworthy for this one incident.

It's my understanding that Gypsy Joe told New Jack that he would break him and that he called him "boy" on more than one occasion. I love free speech and all, but old White men should actively try NOT to call younger Black men "boy".

This is the explanation where I don't think that New Jack went too far. Gypsy Joe wanted to prove how tough he was, so for every outrageous thing we see New Jack doing, keep in mind that Gypsy Joe kept responding with "Is that all you got?" Hey Gypsy Joe, most people know that prowrestling is scripted, you just look like a decrepit old fuck who was too slow to get out of the way.

Intentionally messing up a planned 40ft scaffold fall by throwing Vic Grimmes too hard to miss the tables with the plan of injuring or killing him to get revenge for a previous incident.

Yeah, that's total bullshit and you should have known better.

New Jack and Vic Grimes did NOT hate each other. It was great for selling tickets, so they played up the idea that New Jack was bitter about nearly being killed in a previous match with Vic. Vic has admitted on many occasions that the botch happened because he stepped off wrong. It makes sense for hardcore fans to dream up a fake reality where New Jack deliberately threw Vic so hard he missed the tables, but the boring but true story is Vic screwed up.

In interviews I have watched he always seems quite honest in the fact that he tried to kill all these people and adding to that is that he's meant to have commited four justifyable homicides.
Shooting for real on an oponent who messed up has always been known in wrestling but not to the extent where someone almost died.

New Jack has in character interviews, and he has out of character interviews.

I don't think that New Jack ever intended to "kill" anyone, just hurt severely. I'm not trying to sugar-coat his actions, I'm just saying that I don't think that he's the menace to society that's he's being made out to be. Don't fuck with him in the ring, and he's the coolest person you'll ever meet.

In saying all this if he was suposedly this dangerous why has he never been arrested for any of these incidents or why has the industry not black listed him he even got work after these incidents with a mainstream company TNA or even other wrestlers not refuse to work with him I have never really heard anyone speak badly of him but perhaps thats due to fear.

I've already explained how New Jack as evaded criminal prosecution.

Believe it or not, New Jack is great friends with a lot of prowrestling's biggest names. He and Jim Cornette have a bromance like no other, he and Kevin Nash spend hours chatting when they pass each other. On top of that, he really is a great guy. I ask that you do a little more research, he has a documentary that shows a lot of different sides of his personality.

I wonder anyone elses opinion, If this is real or not? Maybe I'm being a complete mark.

You're being a mark, but perspectives like yours are what make New Jack money these days.

 

[enviousdominous]

How do properly vet a last minute replacement? It's not like they brought him in from somewhere and the guy was a legit 300 plus pounds. He was only supposed to "stand in" on the apron anyway. He was the one who wanted get color not New Jack. Still, it was up to New Jack and D-Von to put the match together as veterans. Heyman was not in the dressing room. This was ECW. It was the Wild West where anything goes. That shit would have flown in the WWF or WCW but we're talking about a piece of shit Indy fed doing business in a run down bingo hall with guys being paid in drugs and IOU's.

Here's the thing, Paul Heyman lost a subsequent civil suit that was part of the perfect storm that destroyed ECW.

While indy feds are typically desperate to push boundaries as it's the only way they can afford dinner, they're usually smart enough to not put some random kid in a match.

The kid was 300 pounds, and that was apparently comprised of 75% body fat. Anyone with half a brain (a whole half more than Paul Heyman in other words) would have chosen not to book some random 300 pound guy, as they would have had enough foresight to know that they would likely be sued right after.

Paul should have known better than to book a random cocky idiot, and yes, New Jack should have known better than to spaz so hard on a random cocky idiot.

 

[Makaveli31]

Well, you'd be surprised especially in the early 1990's when wrestling "schools" were not as prevalent and access to the business, even in the Indy scene was generally closed to the public. Vince McMahon used underage performers as enhancement talent all the time in the 80's and 90's. He was not "random" either. Obviously he had access backstage and to the boss himself, Paul Heyman. Some random fan would not have that access. Again, this story is full of rumor and short on fact but from what I understand he was friends with some of the local guys that were being used by ECW and they gave him backstage access and access to Paul Heyman and even vouched for him. Again, this was before the internet and people used word of mouth. Paul Heyman was not a savvy businessman, he was a savvy booker, I'm pretty sure even just a couple of years later this incident would not have happened.

The kid was 300 pounds, and that was apparently comprised of 75% body fat. Anyone with half a brain (a whole half more than Paul Heyman in other words) would have chosen not to book some random 300 pound guy, as they would have had enough foresight to know that they would likely be sued right after.

Well, there aren't many "kids" 300 pounds even with 75 percent bodyfat. That leads credence to the claim and no one knew he was underage. Again, he was not random. He was known to some of the people backstage.

 

[enviousdominous]

Again, he was not random. He was known to some of the people backstage.

I realize that you and I arguing about what did or did not happen that night is essentially two armchair quarterbacks arguing over who's more plausibly certain, but for all I've researched; nobody backstage knew that kid. He wasn't known to anybody, everyone who I've seen interviewed about the occurrence (Nova, RVD, New Jack) had no idea who he was.

I find it very difficult to believe that a kid who had never competed for a licensed promotion was known to anyone in ECW.

 

[LBGetBack]

When people refer to him as a "legitimate bad ass", I'm always bewildered. There is nothing tough about trying to hurt people in a fake fight. Throw in that the people he tried to and did hurt were mostly rookies or senior citizens....disgusting.

He's an idiot, a coward, and a disgrace of a human being.

 

[Makaveli31]

@enviousdominous I'm not talking about the regular ECW talent I'm referring to the local Indy wrestlers who were used on the show. I remember reading a couple of them vouched for him to Paul Heyman when this all went down. That's how he got backstage and access to Hey man. I'm pretty sure a random fan can't just walk backstage and talk business to Paul Heyman. Somebody had to have known him. Again, I remember reading that when this all went down.

 

[FromGlasgow]

There's some backstory to this that we should be aware of, though I'm not saying that New Jack was justified in what he did.

Most of us know that the kid (he was 17 at the time) basically came up to Paul Heyman when they were missing a person and lied about his experience as a prowrestler. Most of us don't know that the kid believed that he was entitled enough to wander through backstage and behave like he was one of the regulars. It came out in court that the kid used the n-word multiple times in his chat with New Jack (he admitted it under oath), and New Jack has mentioned that the kid felt like it was his place to tell New Jack how to perform. The jury during the criminal trial was made up of all Black people by the way, needless to say New Jack was found Not Guilty.

Apparently the kid asked New Jack "Can you give me some color?" as a means of asking New Jack to cut him during the match. When the kid initially took the shots to the head, he didn't realize how bad it was. You can see him lift his head and smile, only to show a genuine look of horror when he realized that actual flesh was hanging off his forehead.

New Jack lost his shit, Paul Heyman is a motherfucking MORON, and for the record that kid used all the money he got from a successful civil suit to pay for a gastric bypass. His death was due to complications from the surgery, I don't want to hear any bullshit about "depression".



Stabbing another human being is wrong. Alright? Let it be known that I do not think that New Jack was right to stab that stupid sack of shit.

Now then; calling William Jason Lane a "wrestler" is like calling JBL a "color commentator". That guy had no experience whatsoever with someone who had New Jack's level of fame, and he wanted to build a reputation for himself by manhandling New Jack. He knew exactly what New Jack was famous for doing, and he wanted to use that as a resume buffer.

I'm not a wrestler, but I have close friends who are. According to them; if you're going in there with a more experienced performer, you let them dictate the pace and content of the match. William ran in there and started delivering stiff shots, and then tried dumping New Jack over the top rope. No pre-game negotiations beforehand, he wanted to be the guy who made New Jack his bitch.

New Jack was likely (by his own account) on cocaine when the incident occurred. New Jack was charged with attempted murder, but William offered him a deal. William would drop the charges if New Jack would be willing to train him. New Jack very happily agreed, and promptly left Florida as quickly as he could when the charges were dropped and the two men haven't spoken since.



Oh for fuck's sake.

Gyspy Joe is semi-decent wrestler who thinks that he's the toughest man alive and will go to great lengths to prove that, and in every instance he only proves how stupid and pathetic he is. Don't think I'm being fair in my assessment of his worth as a human? He wrestled for a long long time, and he's only noteworthy for this one incident.

It's my understanding that Gypsy Joe told New Jack that he would break him and that he called him "boy" on more than one occasion. I love free speech and all, but old White men should actively try NOT to call younger Black men "boy".

This is the explanation where I don't think that New Jack went too far. Gypsy Joe wanted to prove how tough he was, so for every outrageous thing we see New Jack doing, keep in mind that Gypsy Joe kept responding with "Is that all you got?" Hey Gypsy Joe, most people know that prowrestling is scripted, you just look like a decrepit old fuck who was too slow to get out of the way.



Yeah, that's total bullshit and you should have known better.

New Jack and Vic Grimes did NOT hate each other. It was great for selling tickets, so they played up the idea that New Jack was bitter about nearly being killed in a previous match with Vic. Vic has admitted on many occasions that the botch happened because he stepped off wrong. It makes sense for hardcore fans to dream up a fake reality where New Jack deliberately threw Vic so hard he missed the tables, but the boring but true story is Vic screwed up.



New Jack has in character interviews, and he has out of character interviews.

I don't think that New Jack ever intended to "kill" anyone, just hurt severely. I'm not trying to sugar-coat his actions, I'm just saying that I don't think that he's the menace to society that's he's being made out to be. Don't fuck with him in the ring, and he's the coolest person you'll ever meet.



I've already explained how New Jack as evaded criminal prosecution.

Believe it or not, New Jack is great friends with a lot of prowrestling's biggest names. He and Jim Cornette have a bromance like no other, he and Kevin Nash spend hours chatting when they pass each other. On top of that, he really is a great guy. I ask that you do a little more research, he has a documentary that shows a lot of different sides of his personality.



You're being a mark, but perspectives like yours are what make New Jack money these days.

I would take your argument if we were talking an isolated incident of once or even twice but these things seem to keep happening to New Jack, At what point does it stop becoming a coincidence? They don't seem to happen at all to other former ECW tallent or any wrestlers, Just always New Jack who is a victim.

If the reasons you gave are true some of the victims I agree they probably did deserve a beating but a beating like Bob Holly and Bradshaw used to do back in the day not to actually pull a knife out and repeatedly stab them.

You mentioned you have close wrestling friends you consulted about this post perhaps its true and I feel honoured to have my post discussed by some top wrestling stars, No disrespect but I'm always kind of sceptical whenever anyone claims to have close connections to wrestling its like oh yeah I was out with Taker and The Rock last night for some beers and I have Stone Cold over at my place just now helping me with my plumbing.

To be honest I have never met New Jack so I don't know what the guy is like for sure and never actually thought about it much before yesterday I was just puzzled as the amount of real incidents he had been involved in but seemed to have no repercussions from, Also all the information I got was from online so I can't say how accurate it was such as the Mass Transit death being indirectly caused by depression stemming from New Jack, Thats just what I read.

 

[itbewilly]

I have been a wrestling fan for well over 30 years and think I have been watching it as long as I have been walking,
By this point obviously I understand how heels and faces work and how their playing a character and whenever I hear threats of wanting to kill their oponent etc in pre match interviews for the most part I understand they don't actually mean it and just a way to hype a match.
Theres one guy I have always been unsure about though called New Jack whenever he has said he wants to kill or tried to kill someone in the ring I'm honestly not sure if I believe him or not.
He's either an incredible actor and his character is all planned out in a huge work or he is a legitimate bad ass and an actual danger to his work collegues.

Some of his career highlights include...
The Mass Transit incident, He cut the guy so much that the guy could have bled to death and he later did die which his family claim was a result from depression stemming from New Jack,

Stabbing another wrestler William Jason Lane 9 times with a real knife, I'm puzzled as to why he wasn't charged with attempted murder,

Trying to kill a 70 year old wrestler named Gypsy Joe with violent weapons to a ridiculous extent,

Intentionally messing up a planned 40ft scaffold fall by throwing Vic Grimmes too hard to miss the tables with the plan of injuring or killing him to get revenge for a previous incident.

In interviews I have watched he always seems quite honest in the fact that he tried to kill all these people and adding to that is that he's meant to have commited four justifyable homicides.
Shooting for real on an oponent who messed up has always been known in wrestling but not to the extent where someone almost died.

In saying all this if he was suposedly this dangerous why has he never been arrested for any of these incidents or why has the industry not black listed him he even got work after these incidents with a mainstream company TNA or even other wrestlers not refuse to work with him I have never really heard anyone speak badly of him but perhaps thats due to fear.

I wonder anyone elses opinion, If this is real or not? Maybe I'm being a complete mark.

Mass Transit was 100% as planned. You could here in some audio of the match of him checking on the kid and the kid saying he was okay(during/towards the end of the match) The only reason it really stands out is because he was a minor.

The scaffold incident i dont think was intentional at all. When you are up that high performing where the slightest slip could be deadly im sure there is a ton of adrenaline going through you. It was probably a mistake that New Jack did a shoot interview on to sale dvd's.

The rest well i don't know. He severely injured a rookie for no selling his finisher as well with an unprotected steel chair shot to the head. This looked unplanned and like retaliation. New Jack is the first to admit hes crazy but im like you OP. Its hard to tell what hes said that's real and whats just him working us.

Also were the justified homicides when he was a bounty hunter or is that just another rumor or internet story that guys with the amazing character that is New Jack?

 

[enviousdominous]

I would take your argument if we were talking an isolated incident of once or even twice but these things seem to keep happening to New Jack, At what point does it stop becoming a coincidence? They don't seem to happen at all to other former ECW talent or any wrestlers, Just always New Jack who is a victim.

Look, buddy; a really long time ago (1992) New Jack was performing for USWA out of Tennessee. His gimmick was that of a Black man who was every bit of the scary Black man stereotype that the 100% White crowd assumed of your average Black man. Mind you; everything he was doing and saying to incite rage in the crowd (using NAACP backing to be able to win with only a two count, the shout out to OJ Simpson) was thought up by Jim Cornette.

New Jack became a lightning rod for controversy right away, and anyone who wanted to get their name in the papers had to have a "New Jack incident" to get there.

Not all New Jack incidents involve someone wanting to take him to court in some manner. Here's a vid of XPW the night before they were banned from Patriot Hall, at 16:22 you'll see why.

[youtube]PjmleIfwzwE[/youtube]

I'm not saying that we should celebrate New Jack being on fire, I'm saying that we should note that often-times coincidence does play a factor in New Jack being at the center of a prowrestling controversy.

If the reasons you gave are true some of the victims I agree they probably did deserve a beating but a beating like Bob Holly and Bradshaw used to do back in the day not to actually pull a knife out and repeatedly stab them.

100% agree, not gonna' sugar coat what happened there anymore than I already have. New Jack stabbed someone, and in a perfect world he would have gone to prison.

You mentioned you have close wrestling friends you consulted about this post perhaps its true and I feel honoured to have my post discussed by some top wrestling stars, No disrespect but I'm always kind of sceptical whenever anyone claims to have close connections to wrestling its like oh yeah I was out with Taker and The Rock last night for some beers and I have Stone Cold over at my place just now helping me with my plumbing.

Whoa whoa whoa, I should mention that (big surprise) I don't have any friends that could just walk into the Gorilla position of the WWE without being forcefully ushered out. I have a friend who's a former NWA champion (which really doesn't mean much, if anything, these days), and among my wrestling buddies he's the one who's the expert on etiquette. He's fought some famous people, but they've likely (intentionally) forgotten his name by now.

If your post is being discussed by top wrestling stars, it's not because of me.

To be honest I have never met New Jack so I don't know what the guy is like for sure and never actually thought about it much before yesterday I was just puzzled as the amount of real incidents he had been involved in but seemed to have no repercussions from, Also all the information I got was from online so I can't say how accurate it was such as the Mass Transit death being indirectly caused by depression stemming from New Jack, Thats just what I read.

Well, I acknowledge that my perspective is more of that "just what I read" information. I'll share a few videos that I think will make New Jack appear less like a coke-addicted knife-wielding maniac.

(A very sober) New Jack talking about the Mass Transit Incident:

[youtube]-x6dvoRX1qY[/youtube]

New Jack crashes a Jim Cornette interview:

[youtube]Ias4SBOP_b4[/youtube]

 

[FromGlasgow]

Look, buddy; a really long time ago (1992) New Jack was performing for USWA out of Tennessee. His gimmick was that of a Black man who was every bit of the scary Black man stereotype that the 100% White crowd assumed of your average Black man. Mind you; everything he was doing and saying to incite rage in the crowd (using NAACP backing to be able to win with only a two count, the shout out to OJ Simpson) was thought up by Jim Cornette.

I first became aware of him in Smoky Mountain Wrestling back in the day with Mustafa and D lo feuding with Cornette and the Rock N Roll Express, Being from the UK it wasn't easy to see these wrestling companies from the US during the early 90's and had to rely on ordering VHS copies from the bigger events.
I agree with the videos you sent thats probably the most normal I have seen him so who knows, Still wouldn't like to be on the wrong side of the guy though.