NBA Offseason

[LBGetBack]

But you can agree he doesn't defend, right?

He's not a strong defender, though he's not as bad as many say. I swear people watch a YouTube lowlight clip of him looking stupid and act like that's how he always plays defense. You can find bloopers of anyone screwing up on both ends of the court.

Ain't really anything to agree or disagree with. These are factual things. He's a great offensive player and not all that good defensively.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Hahahaha it literally said i had to have at least one character so i did that and then you posted it after you had already quoted the post 2 pages ago. Arent you lil bitch kid that was in prison for ages too?

Anyway, i dont care that you think you know more about basketball than me. Whoopee. I dont care that you have watched more basketball than me. Whoopee. I know I'm not stupid when I'm talking about basketball but I also know that I'm not a genius so when I see someone make a good point I take it on board. When you see constant criticism's levelled at someone's decision making (Westbrook copped it all season, especially in the playoffs) they're probably bad with the ball. Couple it with a bunch of turnovers, they're bad with the ball

As for the shit about regular season not meaning anything. Obviously it does mean something. But if you went 82-0 and then got swept in the first round are you really going to tell me that its still good? The celtics were the number one team in the east last year based on record. At the start of the playoffs the vast majority still had the Cavs coming out of the east. By the time the first round was over the majority thought they'd be swept by the Cavs. You cant possibly tell me that a team who were expected to be swept (and nearly were) are the best team in their conference because they had a better record

 

[LBGetBack]

Hahahaha it literally said i had to have at least one character so i did that and then you posted it after you had already quoted the post 2 pages ago. Arent you lil bitch kid that was in prison for ages too?

Anyway, i dont care that you think you know more about basketball than me. Whoopee. I dont care that you have watched more basketball than me. Whoopee. I know I'm not stupid when I'm talking about basketball but I also know that I'm not a genius so when I see someone make a good point I take it on board. When you see constant criticism's levelled at someone's decision making (Westbrook copped it all season, especially in the playoffs) they're probably bad with the ball. Couple it with a bunch of turnovers, they're bad with the ball

As for the shit about regular season not meaning anything. Obviously it does mean something. But if you went 82-0 and then got swept in the first round are you really going to tell me that its still good? The celtics were the number one team in the east last year based on record. At the start of the playoffs the vast majority still had the Cavs coming out of the east. By the time the first round was over the majority thought they'd be swept by the Cavs. You cant possibly tell me that a team who were expected to be swept (and nearly were) are the best team in their conference because they had a better record

No, I'm not a kid and no I've never been to prison.

I see pretty clearly what I'm dealing with now and I regret that I bothered even debating with you. #ignored

 

[George Steele's Barber]

But if you went 82-0 and then got swept in the first round are you really going to tell me that its still good?

No, I'm going to tell you that an 82 game winning streak in modern day professional sports is borderline ungodly and find a priest to perform an exorcism.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Calls me "******ed" in one post, and in the next tells me to stop with the "prejudiced" remarks. Are you a real person?

The stupidity there is off the charts.

Australia's basketball accomplishments are minuscule next to the U.S.'s and their exposure to the NBA is not nearly the same. And this clown was not on the 2016 Olympic team. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that I've watched a lot more NBA games than he has. That's not hate speech, you dumb, pressed clown. Stupidest post ever. I'd appreciate an apology.

I'd appreciate it if you suddenly lost the ability to use your hands so I would never have to read any of your shitty opinions on basketball or wrestling ever again. Guess we both have to keep wishing.

 

[LBGetBack]

I'd appreciate it if you suddenly lost the ability to use your hands so I would never have to read any of your shitty opinions on basketball or wrestling ever again. Guess we both have to keep wishing.

SMH at how you just randomly freaked out on me, and then went with that "hate speech" bullshit as your "reason". In reality, you were just mad at me. Like, a normal bball conversation just made a sharp left turn because you randomly got pissed off. Good show. I'm lmao.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

SMH at how you just randomly freaked out on me, and then went with that "hate speech" bullshit as your "reason". In reality, you were just mad at me. Like, a normal bball conversation just made a sharp left turn because you randomly got pissed off. Good show. I'm lmao.

I might get into some hot water for this, but fuck it. I gave you a verbal warning because you were saying that a poster didn't know anything about basketball because of his nationality. If you can't see why that is prejudiced and could be considered hate speech, then that's on you. The reason I warned you is because I thought a few weeks back when you were handed multiple infractions by Sly and were banned from the sports section was too much. I went to Sly, I told him I thought he was being harsh on you. I tried to get you out of trouble. That's why I mentioned you can say someone doesn't know shit about basketball and there is nothing wrong with that. The very second you said he doesn't know shit about basketball because he is Australian, then you are treading into the water of hate speech. I literally tried to keep you out of trouble.

Let me put it like this. If I were to say "hey you don't know shit about basketball because you are black" I'd get in trouble. If we were talking about the NFL and someone who is from England said "Tom Brady is a shitty player" then I could respond with "no, that's a stupid opinion" and it not be a big deal. If I said "you don't know shit about the NFL because you are from England" then it starts to get iffy.

I'm literally going out of my way to keep you from another infraction. I said if you kept up that pattern of speech, then you would get an infraction. I never said I would be the one to give it to you. If it came off as me trying to use my position of power to my advantage, I will apologize for that because that wasn't my intention. I'm simply trying to steer you away from anything that will end up getting you another temp ban.

 

[LBGetBack]

I might get into some hot water for this, but fuck it. I gave you a verbal warning because you were saying that a poster didn't know anything about basketball because of his nationality. If you can't see why that is prejudiced and could be considered hate speech, then that's on you. The reason I warned you is because I thought a few weeks back when you were handed multiple infractions by Sly and were banned from the sports section was too much. I went to Sly, I told him I thought he was being harsh on you. I tried to get you out of trouble. That's why I mentioned you can say someone doesn't know shit about basketball and there is nothing wrong with that. The very second you said he doesn't know shit about basketball because he is Australian, then you are treading into the water of hate speech. I literally tried to keep you out of trouble.

Let me put it like this. If I were to say "hey you don't know shit about basketball because you are black" I'd get in trouble. If we were talking about the NFL and someone who is from England said "Tom Brady is a shitty player" then I could respond with "no, that's a stupid opinion" and it not be a big deal. If I said "you don't know shit about the NFL because you are from England" then it starts to get iffy.

I'm literally going out of my way to keep you from another infraction. I said if you kept up that pattern of speech, then you would get an infraction. I never said I would be the one to give it to you. If it came off as me trying to use my position of power to my advantage, I will apologize for that because that wasn't my intention. I'm simply trying to steer you away from anything that will end up getting you another temp ban.

Appreciate the response, I definitely took it as you pulling a "I got moderator power and I'm mad at you so I'm going to start infracting for anything I can come up with" hoe move. Glad that's not the case.

If allofthelights insinuated that I didn't know much about Australian Rules football, I wouldn't trip. I don't see where the "hate" part is? The guy kept calling me "mate", the guy wasn't showing me that he really knew much about the NBA....so I made the connection. I doubt he's catching NBA games nightly in Australia. That's not "hate speech", lol. Where's the "hate"? It's pointing out something pretty basic, he's half the world away from all this, and I'm sitting in the stands at an NBA game every few weeks and watching nightly during winter weekdays.

 

[Da Prophet]

Australia just happens to be one of, if not the, biggest subscriber market for the NBA League pass outside of the USA. Plus, we're on the internet right now. If we wanted to see every game we could easily do so. It's not 1983. You don't have to live in America to watch sports that are played in America.

And he's Australian so using the word 'mate' every other sentence is common. It's what we do.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Yaz, your signature says "suck my dick, white america".

P.S. - fuck the Belgians

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Defense doesn't require skill, just effort. Harden clearly just wants to get back with the ball.

And stop telling people they don't know anything about basketball. I played organized ball for nine years and coached for six. You seem to be a new age fan who only cares about how many points someone scores. We're not talking about the And1 league.

 

[LBGetBack]

Defense doesn't require skill, just effort. Harden clearly just wants to get back with the ball.

And stop telling people they don't know anything about basketball. I played organized ball for nine years and coached for six. You seem to be a new age fan who only cares about how many points someone scores. We're not talking about the And1 league.

That is one of the more ignorant things I've heard. Not true at all. Effort is a large part of it, but saying it requires no skill is just flat out ridiculous. That sounds like something coaches say to players that suck, to try to coax more effort out of them defensively. You must've heard that one a lot?

Tells people to stop telling others they know nothing about the game....and proceeds to throw out the same insult himself. LOL. FOH.

Harden's role is to produce offensively. You watch them play, right? He had a hell of a year. Funny how nobody had a problem with him in OKC. Nobody got on his shot selection or turnovers then. He's carried an abnormally large load in Houston. That should change this year. When his turnovers and shot attempts inevitably go down this year, y'all can at least shut up about that.

 

[LBGetBack]

Australia just happens to be one of, if not the, biggest subscriber market for the NBA League pass outside of the USA. Plus, we're on the internet right now. If we wanted to see every game we could easily do so. It's not 1983. You don't have to live in America to watch sports that are played in America.

And he's Australian so using the word 'mate' every other sentence is common. It's what we do.

Cool. He already admitted he doesn't watch that much though. Do you? Interested to know where that info came from. I'm pretty sure China is the biggest.

And yeah, that's the point mate. That's how I figured he was Australian.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Cool. He already admitted he doesn't watch that much though. Do you? Interested to know where that info came from. I'm pretty sure China is the biggest.

And yeah, that's the point mate. That's how I figured he was Australian.

There's that twisting again. I said whoopee that you have watched more than me. Not I dont watch that much

 

[Slyfox696]

Defense doesn't require skill, just effort.

Not really true. Desire is important, but good defense requires a lot of skill and a lot of basketball IQ.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Not really true. Desire is important, but good defense requires a lot of skill and a lot of basketball IQ.

To be a great defender, skill helps. To be a good defender? Some athleticism and effort, that's it.

 

[Slyfox696]

To be a great defender, skill helps. To be a good defender? Some athleticism and effort, that's it.

Nah, not really. Quality defense is about proper positioning. Everything on defense is about positioning. On-ball, off-ball, passing lanes, etc.

On ball, it's all about understanding the tendencies of your man and making sure you keep your balance. It's about subtly nudging your man to go in certain directions or to take certain actions and when they do, you're already prepared for what they're doing. It's about knowing the proper time to use the drop step, how to properly place your arms/hands and recognizing weight shifts of your man.

Off-ball, it's about proper distance between ball and man, help side defense and rotations. It's about understanding what the offense wants to do and being ready to jump to the ball as it moves.

Skill and IQ is vitally important to quality defense. Can some super athletes merely get by on athleticism? Sure, super athletes can get by on almost any facet of a sport if they are athletic enough. But good defense is about more than athleticism or hustle, it's about skill and understanding of the game. I wasn't a terrible athlete by any means, but I wasn't a world beater either. The guy I would guard would regularly be a greater athlete (I guarded my fair share of D-1 players, whereas I was no where near that kind of athlete), but by being skilled on defense and having better basketball IQ, I would usually control their ability to run offense and hold them well below their scoring and/or rebounding averages.

 

[LBGetBack]

To be a great defender, skill helps. To be a good defender? Some athleticism and effort, that's it.

My man, this ain't your junior high leagues where running fast and trying hard and getting steals makes you a good defender. You actually watch a lot of NBA? And you're going to tell me defensive skill ain't a thing? Come on. I don't even know where to start.

 

[A11oftheLights]

I would say its a bit of both. If you actually are a shit defender, hard work and tenacity will probably cover it up enough that you can be either an acceptable or good defender. Basically effort will push your up a level

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Guys, I'm not saying you can drop Michael Cole onto a court and just ask him to work hard, and boom, he's a good defender. I'm saying, in general, effort is at least 90% of good defense. Basketball players who are not traditionally talented, like Ben Wallace (one of my favorite players). Offensively, he was awful. He was not a traditionally skilled player. He busted his ass on the defensive end. That takes intelligence and practice, obviously. I never said a braindead idiot can do it.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that a player of, say, James Harden's talent, is perfectly capable of being a good/great defender. He just doesn't care. That's why effort is the main component of being a good defender.

 

[LBGetBack]

Guys, I'm not saying you can drop Michael Cole onto a court and just ask him to work hard, and boom, he's a good defender. I'm saying, in general, effort is at least 90% of good defense. Basketball players who are not traditionally talented, like Ben Wallace (one of my favorite players). Offensively, he was awful. He was not a traditionally skilled player. He busted his ass on the defensive end. That takes intelligence and practice, obviously. I never said a braindead idiot can do it.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that a player of, say, James Harden's talent, is perfectly capable of being a good/great defender. He just doesn't care. That's why effort is the main component of being a good defender.

"Doesn't care". LOL.

The reality is he's playing 36-38 mpg and carrying an insane load offensively. These guys aren't robots. Lebron wasn't any better defensively last year.

Ben basically didn't play offense. Neither did Rodman in Chicago. I guess if a guy is a great defender who isn't even involved offensively, that's cool but if someone carries a too large load offensively and is a mediocre defender it's a character flaw?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

This isn't the NFL, guys in basketball are expected to play both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter how many points you score, you are still expected to play D. And yeah Harden often looks like he doesn't care. There are countless examples of him literally standing still as his man just waltzes past for an easy trip to the basket. He negates almost all his offensive output by being one of the worst defenders in history.

And fuck out of here saying LBJ was bad defensively last year. The Cavs are a shit defensive team and aside from that game one performance where they didn't have a coherent game plan against Golden State, he carried the team on defense.

There are plenty of guys who can play excellent defense and still score. You can be competent at both, but that doesn't seem to fit your narrative of only flashy players being good players.

 

[LBGetBack]

This isn't the NFL, guys in basketball are expected to play both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter how many points you score, you are still expected to play D. And yeah Harden often looks like he doesn't care. There are countless examples of him literally standing still as his man just waltzes past for an easy trip to the basket. He negates almost all his offensive output by being one of the worst defenders in history.

And fuck out of here saying LBJ was bad defensively last year. The Cavs are a shit defensive team and aside from that game one performance where they didn't have a coherent game plan against Golden State, he carried the team on defense.

There are plenty of guys who can play excellent defense and still score. You can be competent at both, but that doesn't seem to fit your narrative of only flashy players being good players.

I swear your posts read like those of someone who doesn't even watch basketball. Lebron was NOT good defensively last year. This is not an opinion. It's what happened. Hilarious that you're willing to make excuses for him....and only him.

The only one with a narrative is you. "Flashy players"....the fuck are you even talking about? Harden is flashy? That's not how I'd describe his game at all, and it doesn't matter either way if a player is flashy. Harden is devastatingly effective on the offensive end. He has mastered the pick and roll. He finishes at the rim extremely well. He's crafty as hell, and has a variety of moves that allow him to get pretty much any shot he wants at any time, he can actually throw that hook pass that Curry throws away all the time, he produces a ton of points for himself and his teammates, and he successfully adapted to a major role change under a new coach.

"Excellent defense but still score"....guess what champ? Harden does more than "still score". He's an elite offensive player. You guys like elite defenders that suck on offense though. But hate Harden. Why?

And there you go proving my point.....you want to talk about lowlights and "plenty of examples". Yeah, like I said.....you could make a lowlight blooper reel on any player in the league on either end of the court. Or you could, you know, just look at the whole picture of what actually happened. Like.....none of this is opinion. There's factual evidence for everything. It's 2017. You're still hung up on those funny YouTube videos of Harden losing his man on backdoor cuts from a few years ago. Frankly, you're being pretty lazy here. Not good. "One of the worst defenders in history"....you're frankly so far off here that you should be ignored. Harden was ok defensively last year. Not good, but not "one of the worst in history". If you're such a lazy fan that you say things like that based on some YouTube lowlights, then you can't really be taken seriously. That would be like me pointing out when Harden locked Derozan up with the game on the line and blocked his jumper, and saying he's a great defender because he made a great play. Gotta look at the whole picture.

 

[Slyfox696]

Guys, I'm not saying you can drop Michael Cole onto a court and just ask him to work hard, and boom, he's a good defender. I'm saying, in general, effort is at least 90% of good defense.

That's such a general comment though. Effort is at least 90% of anything you do, by that metric.

The fact is you can play hard and not be a good defender. You can be a great defender and know when to take your breaks on defense. It's really not just about effort.

I was a very good defensive player and my teams were always very good defensive teams. It's not because I or they played harder than others, but just because I knew defense and taught it. My teams were not very good at scoring one on one, because I just wasn't very good at teaching it. But my teams played very good defense. It's more than just effort, a lot more.

Let's put it another way...do you think the Virginia Cavaliers just simply play harder than other teams? Does Michigan State just play harder than other teams? Or is that they are defensive minded teams led by defensive minded coaches?

It's not just effort. Quality defense is every bit as skill based as quality offense.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I don't disagree with any of that. I never claimed otherwise. My point is very simple - you see lots of players who are perfectly capable and talented enough to play defense, but just refuse to do so (Harden, Carmelo, etc). I'm saying if you're a good player offensively and known as a poor defender, that's a lack of effort, plain and simple.

And being a big MSU fan, I listen to local sports radio with Tom Izzo on nearly a weekly basis. He has talked about taking TE's and other lengthy football players from the school and using them to defend and rebound. He has talked about them not being the most talented, polished players, so he looks for the hardest workers because they tend to be good defenders despite not being traditionally talented guys.