Multi-Man matches at WrestleMania

[NegativeFeedback]

Ever since WWE dumped Money in the Bank from WrestleMania, they have struggled to find ways to get a bunch of people on the card.

At WrestleMania 27, they had Team Snooki and Team Vickie captain a team against each other while having Big Show, Kane, Kofi and Santino go against The Corre. Both matches were throwaway matches that had absolutely no consequences. No team had an "incentive" to win considering there was hardly a brewing rivalry.

At WrestleMania 28, they had a meaningless divas tag match and a whopping 7-on-7 tag match. While the first one was meaningless, the second one was for the "GM spot of both shows". I guess you could call that an incentive, but Laurinitis was fired shortly after anyway so the angle kinda fell flat. Plus, the guy was already billed on-air as the VP of Talent Relations which effectively makes him GM of both shows anyway.

At WrestleMania 29, we're probably getting a Tag Team title match between Hell No and Zig E Lee which isn't that bad. But we're also probably getting bonafide main eventers Sheamus, Randy Orton and Big Show going up against The Shield and The Rhodes Scholars teaming up with The Bellas against Funkytown. None of these matches have any sort of consequence whatsoever. Who wins? Who cares. They're just there to get a bunch of people on the card.

Money in the Bank got a bunch of people on the card, but they had them fight tooth and nail for a briefcase that would propel them into the spotlight. Guys like Kofi and Evan who had no chance of being in the main event spot were given the chance to grab the brass ring. That's some powerful stuff right there. You didn't need an ongoing feud. As long as you put hungry guys in there, it was a spectacle to watch this match unfold.

I'm very disappointed in WWE for not being able to replace the magic that Money in the Bank brought to WrestleMania. They could have easily done a 4-way tag TLC for the titles and it would bring some similar magic. Maybe even something completely different. A Falls Count Anywhere battle royal?

I think WWE should reevaluate what they're doing to WrestleMania. For the past few years, most of the undercard has been pathetic. WWE truly feels that as long as they have three or four big matches, the rest of the show can suck. Maybe some of you feel that's an okay mentality, but that just makes me think watching all 4-5 hours of WrestleMania is a waste of time.

If creating a new gimmick match is too much for them, I personally would have gone with a Breakthrough Battle Royal. Put 10 guys in there who have yet to win a world title and have them face off for a chance to main event SummerSlam. Sure, SummerSlam is 4 months away, but it would be a great story to see WWE build a guy for 4 months. Sure, Ryback would have probably won, but it would still have been a great story to see guys like R-Truth and Kofi try to win the big one.

I am just brainstorming there. The fact of the matter is that whatever they're doing now is boring to me, and I just wish they tried anything else.

 

[Papa Pillman]

At WrestleMania 29, we're probably getting a Tag Team title match between Hell No and Zig E Lee which isn't that bad.

You're right it isn't bad, it's a good match for the tag team tiltes.

But we're also probably getting bonafide main eventers Sheamus, Randy Orton and Big Show going up against The Shield...
Who wins? Who cares. They're just there to get a bunch of people on the card.

How is this match-up pointless? Just because there is no kayfabe prize on the line? Every match at WM doesn't need a concrete reward.

The match pits three main-eventers against three guys the company is building to be main-eventers. This match is infinitely important for The Shield. Continuing their dominant streak of winning these kinds of matches in a mostly clean way goes along way toward continuing to legitimize them in the manner that the WWE is shooting for. The Shield has been a huge part of the roster and a big player in major storylines for months now. All three are considered amongst the main future peices for the company. They need to be in a high-profile program at their first Mania. They are facing established world title caliber talent, and a win for them in such a match means a lot to the angle and to their characters. In what way would a win for them be "pointless"??

A Falls Count Anywhere battle royal?

Further explanation of this potential concept is required...

If creating a new gimmick match is too much for them, I personally would have gone with a Breakthrough Battle Royal. Put 10 guys in there who have yet to win a world title and have them face off for a chance to main event SummerSlam. Sure, SummerSlam is 4 months away, but it would be a great story to see WWE build a guy for 4 months. Sure, Ryback would have probably won, but it would still have been a great story to see guys like R-Truth and Kofi try to win the big one.

So the WWE's third biggest PPV is devoted to an all-star battle royal that rewards its victor a title shot at the biggest show of the year, and your solution to "fix" the midcard of that biggest show is to throw in another not so all-star battle royal that rewards its victor a world title shot at the second biggest show of the year? The match wouldn't even include the top handful of guys on the roster as they are already in matches that are being positioned to carry the card. So over four months out from the biggest show left on the calender you want to set in stone that basically an upper-mid carder is locked into a SummerSlam title shot? Where is it logical? That would be not only lazy booking, but also flawed and/or questionable booking.


Look the point is that every match on the card doesn't need some reward to make it relevant. Ryback/Henry for example is still an intriguing match and it sets Ryback up for a big WrestleMania moment if he can Shell Shock Henry. Shield against a team of "out-in-the-cold" main eventers is also an intriguing match that puts alot on the line for the Shield angle, not to mention that the match makes sense and has been given weeks of logical build instead of just being pointlessly thrown on the card.

You couple those two matches with a Tag Title match that pits your very over champs against your annointed future world champion and his "heavy" who also happens to be a big peice of the company's future and you have the makings of a nice and relevant card to accompany the four major singles matches that are going to sell the event.

That's seven matches with intrigue and purpose. Then the rest of the card will be left with filler that still has star power as we haven't even addressed the mid card and divas belts or the likes of Miz, Barrett, Cesaro, Jericho, etc.

The hazard of building around parttimers is it will always leave a few guys out in the cold, but that is unavoidable, as those parttimers like Rock and Brock are going to be why the masses purchase the PPV. That's called the "Nature of the Beast".

The only real problem I can see with this card is that it essentially renders the US/IC titles meaningless, as they have had no place in the true build-up to the show, and most of the inhabitants around those belts have instead been used as shills for WWE films. But that is a minor complaint in the wake of the overall card.

And matches like Rhodes Scholars/Funk-Dancers are the type of useless fodder that will be saved for a piss break or a Social Media pre-show. Do Cody and Damien deserve more? Probably, but they will get there chances to be in more prominent roles on lesser cards that aren't littered with far more mainstream relevant parttime feature players, or highly regarded prospects who need their first Mania rub.

I would argue that the first seven or so matches deep this WrestleMania card is the most complete one they have presented in the last few years. And the only real reason for criticism that you have is that matches like Ryback/Henry are meaningless to you because they don't hold kayfabe bronze rings. I'd argue Ryback defeating Henry one-on-one with some impressive power offense does more for him then winning a random 10-man battle royal just so we could feel like a few other less important at this point midcarders got a chance to say they were fighting for some prize we knew they weren't going to win anyway.

Sorry about the huge block of text, but I hope my point came across.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Your solution to "fix" the midcard of that biggest show is to throw in another not so all-star battle royal that rewards its victor a world title shot at the second biggest show of the year? The match wouldn't even include the top handful of guys on the roster as they are already in matches that are being positioned to carry the card. So over four months out from the biggest show left on the calender you want to set in stone that basically an upper-mid carder is locked into a SummerSlam title shot? Where is it logical? That would be not only lazy booking, but also flawed and/or questionable booking.

The whole undercard for Mania is lazy booking. But that was the beauty of Money in the Bank. All they did was have around 8 guys win some qualifying matches and work some tag team matches on TV leading up to the event. There was hardly any feuds, but there didn't need to be. The STORY was that these guys wanted a title shot and had to go through 7 other men to do it. Some of those guys were friends, and others were enemies, but it didn't matter. They NEEDED that briefcase and they'd do anything to do it. It was still a great spectacle to watch, because it meant something.

And you're right, my solution has problems. I was just trying to replace Money in the Bank with something else that requires little devotion to rivalries. It doesn't need to be a World title shot at SummerSlam. It could be a title shot on the following Raw, or a midcard title, or they could invent another type of goal for the competitors to aspire like they did with the King of the Ring tournament. The point is, "winner joins the main event circle" is a great story.

For the record, I was brainstorming without taking into consideration the actual card. So guys like Ryback, Cesaro, Wade, Cody and Sandow who are established guys could be able to work the match. These guys would probably be in the MitB if it was still on the card.

Further explanation of this potential concept is required...

I didn't want to turn this into a "create a new match" thread, but basically it would be a hardcore battle royal where guys could be pinned anywhere and the last man standing wins. The problem with it is that it couldn't realistically end in 15 minutes like Money in the Bank. But it's just brainstorming. The point is to create a new multi-man match that would be great to watch, and would have a point.

How is this match-up pointless? Just because there is no kayfabe prize on the line? Every match at WM doesn't need a concrete reward.

If this were their first match, it would have been an interesting encounter. "How would the Shield fare in an actual match?" But these guys have already won three. If they win this one, does it really add anything to the story? And if they lose, would it really affect anything? It's not like Sheamus' team would be winning a war. They'll just win to be taken out on the following Raw anyway.

It's these types of matches that seem to have no purpose. They're just thrown together. No one benefits from winning and no one gets consequences from losing. Not all matches need stipulations, which takes me to my next point..

And the only real reason for criticism that you have is that matches like Ryback/Henry are meaningless to you because they don't hold kayfabe bronze rings.

I look forward to the Ryback/Henry match and never talked bad about it. I would have preferred if they ignited the feud better, but Henry took out Ryback on SD and now Ryback is seeking redemption. This will be an important moment for Ryback's career. Unlike Sheamus and Randy, Ryback NEEDS this win to cement himself in the main event. Nothing wrong with this match at all.

And matches like Rhodes Scholars/Funk-Dancers are the type of useless fodder that will be saved for a piss break... they will get there chances to be in more prominent roles on lesser cards that aren't littered with,...parttime feature players

Is useless fodder really necessary? Less than half of WrestleMania's runtime is in the ring, there's plenty of piss breaks throughout the show. I think they could have done some interesting feuds to work around the undercard. Truth going back to his great heel run and turning on Kofi (Kofi/Truth), Brother vs. Brother with career on the line (Goldust/Cody), etc. It doesn't have to be an EPIC buildup, but at least something other than "we don't have a match, so let's fight".

 

[Papa Pillman]

The whole undercard for Mania is lazy booking.

I think the second tier matches have been booked better this year then in the recent past.

But that was the beauty of Money in the Bank. All they did was have around 8 guys win some qualifying matches and work some tag team matches on TV leading up to the event. There was hardly any feuds, but there didn't need to be. The STORY was that these guys wanted a title shot and had to go through 7 other men to do it. Some of those guys were friends, and others were enemies, but it didn't matter. They NEEDED that briefcase and they'd do anything to do it. It was still a great spectacle to watch, because it meant something.

Which speaks to my point, alot of the guys that would have been thrown into MITB in the past are instead in matches that have been booked with more forethought.

If this were their first match, it would have been an interesting encounter. "How would the Shield fare in an actual match?" But these guys have already won three. If they win this one, does it really add anything to the story? And if they lose, would it really affect anything? It's not like Sheamus' team would be winning a war. They'll just win to be taken out on the following Raw anyway.

But the match does hold water for both sides. The Shield's mission has been to prove that as a unit they are superior to any single one or group of what they believe to be company created supermen that are taking up their rightful spot. Yes they've already shown it against Cena, Ryback, Hell No, Jericho, Sheamus, etc. but Show and Randy who they haven't faced in a match adds two more high-profile superstars to their "body-count". Also they haven't proven anything on the biggest stage of them all. They've won these types of matches but they haven't done it at WrestleMania.

As for the team of opposing superstars, they were the ones who were called out. For them to win obviously doesn't advance their place in the company any further, but it allows them to get their revenge and finally prove that this wolf-like group of upstarts aren't to their level yet and can be beaten. It is especially a big deal for Sheamus who has lost to them multiple times. Would a loss mean the Shield run away forever with their collective tails between their legs?? Of Course not. But it would show that their brand of swarming opportunism is in fact beatable. Something that has yet to be proven.

Is useless fodder really necessary? Less than half of WrestleMania's runtime is in the ring, there's plenty of piss breaks throughout the show.

I tend to agree with you, but only so many matches can be made to seem like a huge deal. If you start working to hard to heap loads of importance on every encounter you overshadow to a degree the magnitude of the top of the card matches that do hold the most importance. It's a matter of spreading things too thin.

I think they could have done some interesting feuds to work around the undercard. Truth going back to his great heel run and turning on Kofi (Kofi/Truth),

I'd love to see Truth turn heel again too, but it is not gonna happen at or around mania. Turning a guy heel who at this moment is barely relevant midcarder as part of the Wrestlemania season would just get lost in the shuffle. This idea isn't a bad match idea, but it is a scenario better utilized as part of a lesser PPV.

Brother vs. Brother with career on the line (Goldust/Cody), etc. It doesn't have to be an EPIC buildup, but at least something other than "we don't have a match, so let's fight".

This is another match that while it sounds important on paper, it would have made much more sense last year when Cody had far more single's momentum. With all the other things happening at Mania, right now a match like this would be white noise, which would be a waste of what could be an interesting storyline.


All of the proposed match-ups we could sit here and throw out for the lower-mid card action are essentially a matter of taste for what people would like to see, they aren't necesarily better od worse than what the WWE is building up in actuality. They are simply alternatives to what they are actually building. Instead of nitpicking around at the booking, I think it is better to recognize what it is and why it is that they are presenting the matches that are actually in the works. And realize that the supporting card really is shaping into something defendable that will produce a few good moments to prop up the lesser angles of the show. And recognize that in all honesty we could have easily been sitting here discussing a card far worse and more clusterfucked than the one that is currently taking shape.

 

[MCMG]

At WrestleMania 29, we're probably getting a Tag Team title match between Hell No and Zig E Lee which isn't that bad. But we're also probably getting bonafide main eventers Sheamus, Randy Orton and Big Show going up against The Shield and The Rhodes Scholars teaming up with The Bellas against Funkytown. None of these matches have any sort of consequence whatsoever. Who wins? Who cares. They're just there to get a bunch of people on the card.

Money in the Bank got a bunch of people on the card, but they had them fight tooth and nail for a briefcase that would propel them into the spotlight. Guys like Kofi and Evan who had no chance of being in the main event spot were given the chance to grab the brass ring. That's some powerful stuff right there. You didn't need an ongoing feud. As long as you put hungry guys in there, it was a spectacle to watch this match unfold.

You're annoyed that there is a tag-team title match and the culmination of the most innovative feud of the last 6 months. Perfect logic.

Moreover, the fact that there is not enough talent left on the roster for a MITB match. Besides Cody Rhodes and Sandow there no-one who actually deserve the briefcase and all that entails. I'm almost certain that any match with the Clay and Tensai will be pre-show.

I miss the MITB match. It was a great way to start WM and of course, as you said, add some excitement to the card; however, there will be two in July. That is fine by me and we will get the emergence of a mid-carder than. It is better to wait than dilute the biggest night of the year with average talent.

 

[Ap3x_Pr3dator13]

actually, instead of having the IC and US titles on the line at WrestleMania 29, I would bring back the MITB Ladder Match to WrestleMania featuring the following superstars:

Chris Jericho
Wade Barrett
The Miz
Kofi Kingston
Antonio Cesaro
R-Truth
Cody Rhodes
Damien Sandow

that would be an incredible MITB match and as far as what the FINAL card should be for WM 29, here's how I would book the rest of the PPV:

WWE Championship:
The Rock vs. John Cena

CM Punk vs. Undertaker

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar

Six-Man Tag Team Match:
The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Sheamus & Big Show

Ryback vs. Mark Henry

World Heavyweight Championship:
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger

Money in the Bank Ladder Match:
Chris Jericho vs. Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth

WWE Tag Team Championship:
Kane & Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston

Lumberjills Match for the Divas Championship:
Kaitlyn vs. Layla

 

[NegativeFeedback]

as far as what the FINAL card should be for WM 29, here's how I would book the rest of the PPV:

WWE Championship:
The Rock vs. John Cena

CM Punk vs. Undertaker

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar

Six-Man Tag Team Match:
The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Sheamus & Big Show

Ryback vs. Mark Henry

World Heavyweight Championship:
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger

Money in the Bank Ladder Match:
Chris Jericho vs. Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth

WWE Tag Team Championship:
Kane & Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston

Lumberjills Match for the Divas Championship:
Kaitlyn vs. Layla

You realize you only booked one match outside of WWE's pretty much official card, right? But that's besides the point. You missed the idea of the thread which is to discuss how WWE has been handling having to replace Money in the Bank on the card. By saying WWE should just add it back is to ignore the reality that as long as MitB is a successful summer PPV, it isn't going to reappear at WrestleMania.

You're annoyed that there is a tag-team title match and the culmination of the most innovative feud of the last 6 months. Perfect logic.

I never spoke ill of the tag team title match. I said it was the only multi-man match booked that wasn't bad. I have no idea what you're responding to.