More Important - Mic Skills or In-Ring Skills?

[Kaneanite]

I think this could turn into a very spirited debate...

To me, it has to be mic skills. There's a good current example of this in the WWE Today:

John Morrison vs The Miz

Honestly? Miz is mediocre at best in the ring. Remember when all the little Miz children were claiming he was "improving" in the ring since he's hit the ME scene? Haven't seen it, sorry. The match to kick off the year was CARRIED by Morrison and anyone that says otherwise is a joke.

Morrison is an amazing in-ring performer. Think of the matches this guy could have had with the likes of Angle, HBK, or Undertaker? Yet..... he's eliminated WAY before anyone would have expected in the Rumble DESPITE getting somewhat of a significant push (I say somewhat because look where it led him... no where). The pop he got was probably the loudest of the night besides MAYBE Diesal and Cena. I know the Miz doesn't get pops because he's a heel but I digress...

The one thing Miz certainly has, and even convinced me, is his mic skills. The guy can cut a mean promo. He's really good on the mic, probably third to Jericho and Punk. I suppose it's easier to be a new coming heel and do work on the mic but regardless he's been great on it.

So looking at these two... one with the CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR advantage at putting on top notch matches and the other with a big advantage at using the mic. But in the end, who's got the title and who's yet to taste it?

Mic skills.

 

[DDPandNWOfan]

Mic skills. Alberto Del Rio and Wade Barrett have gotten instant main event pushes because of it. Miz is champion because of it.

Without mic skills you have to be insanely over with the fans, draw alot of money and it still takes years to make it to the top. Just ask Jeff Hardy, RVD and Rey Mysterio.

 

[AK2V8]

The best way too prove which is more important is by asking this question.
Would you rather pay pay-per-view too see a great match or a great in-ring segment?

The Miz hasnt given me a good match at all. I agree that Miz is good on the mic but the only thing that annoys me is the ******ed face he makes when he does it. I know its because he is a heel but it looks fuking ******ed (if only you could mute picture...)

The only time he puts on good matches at best is when somebody else is carrying his damn ass!

But would you rather have the in-ring skills of Vladimir Kozlov and the mic-skills of Chris Jericho or,

the mic-skills of The Great Khali and the in-ring skills of John Morrison.

think about it.

 

[afark02]

mic skills without a doubt. it seems the wwe can somewhat hide wrestlers with limited skill set, just look at Cena, and still make them main event players. Other wrestlers can sell moves by wrestlers who otherwise cant make themselves look good. But you cant hide a guy who cuts a terrible promo, or just sounds incoherent.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I prefer to watch a better (and longer) match then a bunch of bad acting. PPVs should be almost ALL matches and no promos. Make it short and to the point, then let the suits to the talking.

 

[xBANEx]

I think this could turn into a very spirited debate...
Honestly? Miz is mediocre at best in the ring. Remember when all the little Miz children were claiming he was "improving" in the ring since he's hit the ME scene? Haven't seen it, sorry. The match to kick off the year was CARRIED by Morrison and anyone that says otherwise is a joke.

Hate to break it to you but Morrison is nothing but a spot monkey. He has no talent whatsoever. :/

Anyway, onto the topic at hand:

In professional wrestling mic skills are clearly the superior and anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong. WWE is about entertainment first and wrestling second.

 

[Heartachetonight926]

Hate to break it to you but Morrison is nothing but a spot monkey. He has no talent whatsoever. :/

Anyway, onto the topic at hand:

In professional wrestling mic skills are clearly the superior and anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong. WWE is about entertainment first and wrestling second.

Wow....just...wow.

I have never disagreed with anything more than I do with this post, It's almost humorous to tell you the truth.....

But, I'm not one to tell people they are "Wrong", so I'll just say I personally think Morrison has more talent in his eye-lashes than Miz has in his entire body.....as far as Wrestling talent is concerned.


NOW...

Back to the topic at hand.

I personally hate to say it, being as though I am a WRESTLING fan. But to Make it big in the WWE, 90% of the time you need to be able to hold your own on the microphone. Even though I buy the PPV's like WRESTLEmania to see the actual um...wrestling. In order for the audience to really get behind matches nowadays you need to cut memorable promo's.

Kinda sad, but true.

 

[Jackal960]

Great Thread...

Mic skills, without a doubt.

Lets start with examples, Piper were injured practically for years at late 80s but he managed to stay as the biggest heel of the company, guess how?
SCSA had his neck injuries but who really cared? As long as you could see Austin in the ring with a mic on his hand.
What was the greatest wrestling move of the Rock?
What about Hogan? When you think of him on the 80's whats the first image comes to your mind? The first image coming to my mind is him wearing yellow t-shirt Mean Gene near him talking about his Hulkamaniacs.

The list goes on and on and on... And these are the best in the business, so you can guess how you become successful in the wrestling business

 

[drk_knight]

I think that miz can still improve his wrestling skill and morrison can still improve his mic skills. Come to think of it they both are now. Btw i think mic skills are more important, look at hulk hogan hes one of the shitest wrestlers in wrestling history. Something else that matters but not alot, is the look. Example: Goldberg, though hes crap at wrestling and not great on the mic, i think the only reason wcw made him big was his look.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Well, obviously the answer to this question is mic skills. The only way a wrestler caan become popular is if the audience cares about his character and its not something that you can accomplish by wrestling a great match. It can only be achieved by cutting a good promo to get the desired fan reaction. Most fans, especially casual ones, don't give a fuck about in ring skills.

Frankly, without the story pro wrestling is nothing but a pair of guys in tights pretending to fight each other. And stories can only be told by cutting promos.

The greatest stars of the business have all been great promo cutters regardless of their wrestling skills. Their ability to get the crowd interested in their feuds is what made them so big.

The match in pro wrestling is just the culmination of a storyline. Promos are the meat of it and without great promos the story would not be riveting enough for the fans to care about the culmination of the story, that is the match.

 

[Kaneanite]

Hate to break it to you but Morrison is nothing but a spot monkey. He has no talent whatsoever. :/

Anyway, onto the topic at hand:

In professional wrestling mic skills are clearly the superior and anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong. WWE is about entertainment first and wrestling second.

Hate to break it to you but you are completely wrong, in my opinion. The fact that he can jump off the jumbotron or jump on to the wall and not let his feet hit the floor is just another reason why he's great. His matches are 5 star caliber. Just because someone is a phenomenal athlete does not automatically label them as a "spot monkey".

 

[Malenko316]

I think the question should be specific - either: a) are mic or wrestling skills more important in WWE (or TNA for the minority) or b) are mic or wrestling skills more important to the fans?

In the WWE, it's no contest - the biggest names now, Cena/Miz/Edge/HHH are all there for their mic skills. Some, like Orton/Undertaker/Kane/Seamus/Mysterio are top names for their presence rather mic skills per se. In past, Hogan/Rock/Stone Cold/Batista/Ultimate Warrior were champs because of their mic work or presence. Only a few, Bret Hart/Owen Hart/HBK/Jericho/Flair had both. Many others, Hennig/Piper/Christian hit a glass ceiling because they didn't get the creative support.

The tide is changing, slightly and slowly. Daniel Bryan/Dolph Ziggler/Drew McIntyre/Wade Barrett/Jack Swagger/Alberto Del Rio (with Justin Gabriel/Brodus Clay emerging) have middling to mediocre mic skills, but are between passable (Barrett) to world class (Bryan/Del Rio) in the ring. The problem will never be totally solved while VKM is in charge because of the bias towards larger talent (Big Zeke, Mason Ryan etc) and a major bias against those not trained 'in the WWE way', excluding many fine Indie starts with experience in the ring and where stupid scripted shit is of lower priority.

As for whats important to the fans, thats easy: real wrestling fans DONT watch WWE and since Terry, Eric and Vinnie took over TNA, they don't watch that either. Wrestling, albeit scripted, should be about athletic competition and displays of ring craft - not very, very bad acting with the in ring stuff an after thought. The problem is, from a business point of view, pre-teens with pester power, will watch the over scripted crap and don't care about the quality of the in ring stuff as long as their hero wins.

Yes, there was bad wrestling and careers made on mic work alone back in the Hogan era (hence why terry and eric think it will still work in tna), but there was a balance with guys who all about what went on in the ring. Even during the attitude era, which was the height of careers made on the mic (rock/cena/SCSA), there was a balance with guys like HBK and Benoit.

Until the WWE board changes or current pre-teen market grows up - the product will not really change or grow up either. (Thats assuming its not further held back by Mrs McMahon political ambitions.) Having a changing talent pool with different skills will help but change has to come from the top in order to let roster express themselves in the ring and not be constrained by fitting in 2/3 of a show with mic bs.

So, ring skills matter more to real fans (over 13), but mic skills matter more to WWE (and now TNA) management - thus real wrestling fans shouldn't care about the WWE because management doesn't care about you, unless you're under 12 and want to buy either a purple t-shirt or faux mysterio mask. PV

 

[Kaneanite]

Well, obviously the answer to this question is mic skills. The only way a wrestler caan become popular is if the audience cares about his character and its not something that you can accomplish by wrestling a great match.

I agree mostly, but Morrison has achieved getting the the audience behind him despite almost everyone in the IWC bitching about how much his promos suck. Did you hear the pop he got at the RR? Insane. If this guy does improve his promos and still doesn't get a chance with the title I think I'll lose my mind.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I'll also go with mic skills, and for me it's really a no-brainer. Miz and Morrison are a good example by today's standards, but you just have to start with Hogan. It was in his heyday that pro wrestling really turned more towards the soap opera aspects it has today, and I believe that is what makes you tune in.

Sure it's great to see a good technical wrestling match, but you know... it's the mic skills, the promos, that makes matches matter and gives them that "big match" feel.

If a good heel can continously cut promos that REALLY piss you off as a fan, and if his mic-skilled face opponent can do so as well... then those two guys litterally only need to get in the ring and slap each other for half an hour, and the crowd will LOVE it, just because the two wrestlers managed to get the audience involved in their story and behind their characters, either rooting for the one or for the other.

On the other hand, you can have badass in-ring skills, and still a crowd might remain dead silent for your half hour wrestling clinic.

In very rare instances of course, mic skills/charisma and great in-ring skills come hand in hand - see HBK, Chris Jericho, who are both oustanding on the stick and can also be counted to the best in-ring performers of all time; also up there for me is The Rock - for while I would probably only consider him "above average" in in-ring skills, his selling was always mad, and his mic skills and charisma were just off all charts, I'd say even way beyond Hogan's.

Speaking again of Hogan... that's just another proof of how much mic skills can make even a lame leg drop matter.

So I agree, in pro wrestling, it's just more about the story and the characters. And to establish that story, to establish those characters, AND especially to make both matter to the audience, you need good "actors" to play their roles - and hence, mic skills are everything if you want to make it big.

I guess you could compare it to musical theatre, if you will... in that profession, you should be able to act as well as sing and preferably dance. Now if you're a tremendous actor of Royal Shakespeare Company caliber (="tremendous in-ring skills in wrestling", see Morrison), but can't sing to save your life (="lack of charisma/mic skills in wrestling"), you probably won't be booked to sing the "Phantom of the Opera" because people won't be interested in that. Now if you're a lame actor ("limited in-ring skills in wrestling", see Hogan), but a tremendous singer (= "tremendous mic skills in wrestling", see Hogan), you might still be booked because you just sound that awesome, so people will ignore the fact that you look silly when you try to act.

LOL, probably not the best analogy, but it sort of just popped into my head. In any case, I stand by that: mic skills are more important; in-ring skills will only get you so far. Of course there are exceptions to the rule - like Rey Mysterio, I don't ever recall him talking all that much (or well, for that matter), but the things he used to do in the ring just were so over the top that they were entertaining in their own right, especially when he was younger. But aside from that, I can't really think of anyone who got to the top only because his in-ring work was that good. But countless guys have risen to the top despite an obvious lack of in-ring skills, simply because they are entertaining and charismatic and can keep people involved.

 

[itbewilly]

In-Ring Skill is far more important and anyone who thinks otherwise should stop basing a wrestlers successful on the few who were good enough in ring and on the mic.

When guys like Austin and Rock came along we started seeing less and less managers and that in fact sucks.Guys like Heenan and Hart and Alfonzo added a whole new element to wrestling.Seeing the heel manager get what he had coming often was more entertaining then anything else going on in the match.

You can always put a mouth piece with someone if they aren't able to speak well themselves but if that person blows in-ring and can't hold the crowd's attention then what do you do? You can change their gimmick and try to make them more appealing.You can send them back to development.Id rather watch a great technical match with no talking then two guys who do 4 or 5 moves talk for 20 minutes and then have a horrible match.

 

[slushpuppy53]

Overall, there is no question .... the mic skills will make or break you. However there are a number of people that have made it to the top on the basis of their ring work ... Jeff Hardy, Chris Benoit and Bret Hart come to mind, but it would seem it generally takes a lot longer on average to succeed.
Someone else brought up the importance of managers, and I couldn't agree more ... biggest and best example of their importance? BROCK LESNAR. I definitely think his look and work would have gotten him to the top, but without Paul E's delivery, he would have been a lot older ...

 

[Wainy]

It all depends on what you mean by "More Important". If you mean more important to suceed in the WWE then yes, it's mic skills, if you mean what's more important as a wrestler, then, fuck me! It's in ring skills. WWE started out as a wrestling company, & slowly but surely became an entertainment show. If you watch WWE & are content with shit matches but lots of funny thing's being said, that make you repeat them to your friends & buy the merchandise, then yeah, carry on. Us fans of actual WRESTLING will be over hear laughing at you. This is why I prefer shows like ROH & Chikara, because I'm here to watch WRESTLING, not a fucking soap opera

 

[JackGallow]

When it comes to a mainstream product there is no doubt in my mind that what they want first and foremost is somebody that can talk on the mic. However me personally? I would rather somebody who has the capability of having a 5 star match. To me it is extremely unfortunate that over the years the actual wrestling side of professional wrestling has been dumbed down but i understand why it has happened. When one looks at the WWE it is obvious that this day and age Raw and Smackdown is more or less a tv show with a little wrestling thrown in, and just like any other tv show we watch weekly the characters on the show is the reason why we tune back in each and every week. So when i try to put myself in Vince McMahons shoes, in the sense of good television having somebody who can speak well enough to make you believe in their character has to be a top priorety in your mind, and today well lets be honest its just about everything. HOWEVER what really bothers me is back in the day when you had somebody who was and incredible wrestler, but couldnt talk on the mic you gave them a MANAGER. I think it is seriously just about that time that the WWE and wrestling in general goes back to the lost art of the manager, because i think of it this way. Take a talent who is great on the mic, but pretty much garbage in the ring, even with all the hard work in the world more than likely they'll probably get to about mediocrity and level off(Miz). However take somebody with no mic skills but is excellent in the ring, eventually they will probably get mediocre on the mic, but will put on 5 star matches, during the time that they suck on the mic GIVE THEM A GODDAMN MANAGER TO TALK FOR THEM and eventually people will simply respect them for their in ring work after years and years of entertainment, thats my huge issue with wrestling today but hey, im not stupid or naive and i understand that from now until the near future being able to talk is the most important thing in "sports entertainment".

 

[jellmoo]

Ring ability trumping mic skills is by far the exception. Without mic skills, wrestlers have a very hard time getting over. It's not impossible, but it is a big challenge.

Take a look at recent WWE Championship history. These are the wrestlers to hold the title in the last 10 years:

Stone Cold
Chris Jericho
Hulk Hogan
Undertaker
The Rock
Big Show
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero
JBL
Rob Van Dam
Jeff Hardy
Edge
Triple H
Batista
John Cena
Sheamus
Randy Orton
The Miz

19 wrestlers. Of them, how many got to the top based solely off of in ring ability as they lacked mic skills?

Jeff Hardy and RVD.

It can be done, but it's a very tough uphill battle.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I agree mostly, but Morrison has achieved getting the the audience behind him despite almost everyone in the IWC bitching about how much his promos suck. Did you hear the pop he got at the RR? Insane. If this guy does improve his promos and still doesn't get a chance with the title I think I'll lose my mind.

Morrison, in more ways than one, reminds me a lot of RVD. Yes the guy can pull off insane spots and the crowd love him because of that. But I do not think that he can be a great champion because of his inability to get the crowd interested in his feuds. Now that is a direct result of his shitty promo skills.

Look at RVD from 2001 to 2004. He was also insanely popular due to his athletic ability but his charisma kinda disappeared every time he held the mic. The result was that he was give a short title run towards the *** end of his career and that too due to the resurgence of ECW. It could be argued that the WWE Champion after One Night Stand 2006 was ECW rather than RVD.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

I think it's mostly your face. Take a look at Orton. Monotone as fuck in his promos, great when he stares at his opponents or goes batshit in the ring, isn't the greatest in ring worker either, but his face make him the champion, how he presents himself is what it comes down to. As the saying goes "actions speak louder than words." If Orton is silent before the punt its because he's rightly pissed.

 

[JTS32]

Well for me, I'd rather see great in-ring skills and mediocre mic skills, compared to great on the mic and bad in the ring. However in today's world mic skills are more important to be successful. How Miz is successful I'll never know. Both are lacking in his case in my personal opinion. He says Really? about 12 times, makes fun of his opponent, gives a nod to his boy A-Ri, and then says I'm Awesome, woo hoo riveting stuff, sorry I know a lot won't agree with me, but that's how I see it.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Mic skills for sure.

Professional Wrestling is ENTERTAINMENT. The promos and the feuds are built off of mic skills.

Certainly if a guy has mic skills and in-ring skills, he can become an instant superstar but if you have good mic skills you don't have to be good in the ring and your physique doesn't have to be great.

I would honestly rather watch a guy that can control the crowd, and lay down a great promo or series of promos leading into a match than a guy who sucks on the mic but is a great technical wrestler.

 

[Lion's Sacrifice]

I'm unsure. Because imo you have to have both if you wish to be put in ME. Though for one to get over they don't necessarily have to have the mic skills to win the fans over. Look at Morrison now. He's way over with the crowd, but isn't that great on the mic. Proving that you can still get by without having great mic skills. While the mic skills are great. I believe what you do in between the ropes in more important. I mean, I can sit back and go, "okay, that was the best promo I've seen in a long time." Or, "Wow, that promo had me laughing my ass off." Or "Now that's a great promo I'm looking forward to that." However, I think that in ring skill will have you more remembered than mix skill. Because a lot of the time, we don't remember a specific promo, but we can remember a great match, or spot. Name me 3-4 of the best promo's of the last couple of years? The only one I can think of when Cena had to quit. Now, go back and think about great matches. I can list several. I promise you I'll remember Morrison's spot at the rumble more than i'll remember Miz's promo with Del Rio last night.

 

[kozzomozzo]

Well be careful because mic skills in a pg world are at a premium. It was easier for some of the guys from before when they could say what they wanted and didn't have to hold back. Mic skills are better to me seriously was there anything ever better when jericho and the rock made fun of steph mcmahon?