MMA's Mt. Rushmore

[Via Armbar]

There are a few names in the history of the sport who will go down as legends if they haven't already. Every sport has their Jordan's, their Gretzky's and so on. Despite the sport being only a toddler in relation to other sport such as football and baseball, there is no shortage of names that personify mixed martial arts. We have seen hot prospects fall short of what was expected and we've seen underdogs triumph and hold gold. We've had innovators as well as the steady old guard holding on to a sport that so easily passes athletes by. Whatever terms you use to judge what makes a legend just that, there are agreements by most fans that can be reached regarding the all time greats of the sport. Of those legends, who would you place on the Mt. Rushmore of mma?

Fedor Emelianenko. Surprised right? Despite recent events, the man simply known as Fedor has done more in his career than most fighters could do in two careers. He beat the best at their own game despite being smaller and unfitting of what fighters are supposed to be and look like. A record like Emelianenko's has never been, and probably never will be matched. To be the best for as long as he was and arguably still is. No other fighters have had an aura about them like The Last Emperor has had. While guys like Silva and GSP are still cementing their legacies, Fedor has already set his in stone.

Royce Gracie. One of very few men who were able to completely change what people thought fighting was about. Putting money on the hulking strikers was considered the safe bet. After the Adonis-like Ken Shamrock was submitted by some wacky, crazy submission known as a rear naked choke, the fight game would never be the same. One of the first names that is brought up when talking about the youngest days of the UFC, Gracie brought a virtually unknown fighting style to the US and it's affect is still incredibly visible today.

Kazushi Sakuraba. The Gracie Hunter. With a nickname like that, the owner of his has to live up to the reputation. Sakuraba did just that. Arguably the best shoot wrestler to adapt a certain kind of style to mma, Sakuraba amounted 19 submission wins in his career. If that wasn't impressive enough, he has taken out four of the famed Gracies. You can't bring up Saku without mentioning the fact that he holds the record for the longest mixed martial arts bout of all time at an unheard of 90 minutes. His fight records hold no shortage of amazing battles with some all time greats.

Randy Couture. Usually I would be extremely hesitant to put an active athlete in any sort of hall of fame or anything like it. Randy is the exception however. To me, he is American mma. He is the quintessential fans fighter. He embodies the everyman: things are possible with hard work and never count yourself out. He doesn't have the best record. That doesn't matter. People will always want to see Randy fight and he will always be a competitor. He has defied the odds time and time again and is a true inspiration in the world of mma.

I'd like to see who everyone would place in their very own Mt. Rushmore and open things up to discussion. There are plenty of names who can be considered and it should be interesting to see who is considered legendary and who isn't.

 

[jmt225]

Damn it, Armbar. I'd hate to still two of your choices, but I have to agree with you 100% on them.

Royce Gracie - Obvious reasons... won the first ever UFC Tournament, which he and his family basically put together themselves. Without Royce and the Gracies, there is no UFC. Hell, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is still irrelevant in this country without Royce Gracie. He did so much for the sport, and as much as Sakuraba means to Japanese Mixed Martial Arts (which I'll get to in a sec), Royce Gracie means to American MMA.

Kazushi Sakuraba - The King of Japanese Mixed Martial Arts. The very first Japanese MMArtist to become a real star and threat in Japan. Of course he's most known for his Gracie Hunter status and having a 90 minute fight, which he won, against Royce Gracie, but he was also the first professional wrestler to switch to MMA and become a true star in MMA. He's basically done it all, man. Without this guy, there is no way Japanese Mixed Martial Arts becomes as big as it did. No chance in hell.

Chuck Liddell - I am not a Chuck Liddell fan, and I would much rather put Tito Ortiz's name right here than Chuck's, but Chuck Liddell is the true first Golden Boy of the UFC. When Zuffa took over, Liddell was who they tried and eventually did, build the company around. And it worked out. Liddell looked unbeatable during his prime and everyone bought him as the best MMArtist in the sport for years. He drew constantly for the UFC, and to this day he's one of their most popular, recognizable fighters.

Wanderlei Silva - This came down to Wandy and Fedor, and as much as I respect and admire Fedor's contributions to MMA, I feel Wandy did more for the sport than Fedor did at the end of the day.

Wandy was easily the most popular foreigner to make it in Japan, and yes.. that includes Fedor. I also believe Wandy's run in Pride as Middleweight Champion is the most dominating run we've seen so far in MMA, and yes... that includes Fedor's 33 win streak. The guy was fucking relentless on his opponents and for years just gave out the best, most brutal beatings & knockouts in the sport, and also gave us the most exciting fights in the sport too, pretty much winning every single one of them at the same time. And the fact that he's been able to make the transition to the UFC and find success in that company and gain an even larger audience gives him an edge for me as well.

 

[INDYjon22]

Of all time, I would have to say Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes.

Liddell was the biggest star in the sport when it finally began to become popular in the mainstream and he was the face of the company. Nobody could touch him for years and the fans loved his brawler fighting style. He made a lot of people fans and made a lot of money for the company.

Couture is one of the most beloved men in the sport. He has been the underdog his whole career and has always proved people wrong. The fans love him because of his good guy persona and like Liddell, he did wonders for the company in the early days.

Gracie was a true pioneer of the sport in the dark ages. He brought an entire new kind of fighting to the promotion. A style that is used by so many fighters now a days.

And, Hughes, as much as I don't like the man he has been one of the biggest figures in the UFC and MMA. I used to be a fan of his for a long time until I read some reviews of his book, and I should refrain judgment until I read it, it has changed my entire opinion on the man, however I digress. He is and was one of the greatest champions in the UFC's history. He delivered a lot of great fights while in his prime and is a very recognizable face.

Now, if it was in current day, the list would be quiet different. It would probably have the likes of Forrest Griffin, GSP, Brock Lesnar and Fedor on it.

 

[Fizzy]

Royce Gracie How can this guy not be up there? He practically made BJJ a threat in MMA, and without him the sport would undoubtedly be different or not around at all. He came in and fought at a time where the sport was full of huge bar, and street fighters, and Royce was very small but he still came in and dominated. He is easily the most deserving person on this list.

Randy Couture Along with Chuck and Tito he was one of the men who helped bring MMA into it's golden years. He has fought top competition his entire career, and for the majority of his career he has fought Heavyweights that were much bigger than him. People talk shit on his record, but Randy is a natural LHW fighting Heavyweights, and still dominating. That alone speaks wonders. He was one of the first real draws in MMA, and one of the most popular men in history. I think he really deserves this spot.

Kazushi Sakuraba The Royce of Japan easily deserves a spot up here. The guy fought a fucking 90 minute fight against Royce. That alone warrents a spot up here. He has beaten four Gracies, and was one of the best adapted wrestlers to start up in MMA. Without him there would have been no Japanese MMA. He is the Royce of Japan to put it simply, and the Gracie killer gets a spot.

Fedor Emelianenko I really wanted to put Cro Cop down to be original, but I just couldn't put him over Fedor. The guy simply dominated the Heavyweight division for so long. Nobody could touch him. He beat the best at their own game, and did so with ease. He is so well rounded, and is still in my opinion the best Heavyweight in the world. Sure many casual fans don't know who he is, but that's their fault. They are missing out watching the best fighter in the world fight, and everytime he steps in the cage you feel like your watching history be made. He doesn't have the build that people would think a professional fighter has, but he still is the most badass fighter on the planet. The greatest fighter of all time and nothing that happens from here on out will make me think otherwise.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Mark Coleman Now before people go WHAT THE FUCK? Coleman practically invented GnP. You wouldn't see the success of American wrestling in MMA today if it weren't for Mark the Hammer Coleman. He entered the sport before Couture and absolutely obliterated his opponents in a fashion that had not been seen before. This style still exists today and is EXTREMELY successful. Couture largely owes his success to a style Coleman threw down first.

Royce Gracie I don't think I need to add much more to Royce that hasn't already been said. Although, I'll say it here, I'm leaving off Sakuraba because they were the same fighter. One fought in Japan, the other here. They both introduced submission grappling to the sport

Chuck Liddell I put Chuck on here because he revolutionized the Sprawl and Brawl tactic that dominated MMA for the longest time. Also, he is basically responsible for bringing the UFC out of the dark ages and to the forefront of our imaginations.

Bas Rutten I don't think anyone on this page with any working knowledge of MMA would argue that Rutten showed us the devastating effects of a leg kick and how, if you incorporated your feet into the MMA game, you could have a tremendous amount of success.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Hey Yo!

Wanderlei Silva
I am a huge Axe Murderer fan, if you didn't know. I have the utmost respect for this man. Back in his prime while he was in Pride ripping up that Middleweight division, and being accepted as a superstar in Japan which not easy to do. Wadnerlei Silva win, lose or even draw he always consistantly puts on timeless classics and truly lives up to his name. I dont think i have ever watched a Wanderlei fight and blinked that is how entertaining this man is.

Chuck Liddell
For the shear fact, that this guy almost single handedly put MMA on the map on the american fight scene, and pretty much gave the UFC that extra nudge to shoot it self into the mainstream and become a household name that we all follow and love. He's been in a bit of slump lately but with his past credentials and past performances which can never be forgotten. The name UFC is almost synonymous with "The Iceman" Chuck Liddell.

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't know much MMA in Japan history, so I'll speak simply from an American MMA side, which is lucky since Mt. Rushmore is an American landmark. The first two should be obvious, in my opinion, but no one has put both of them yet.

1. Royce Gracie - This is really a no-brainer, and I think he's been on everyone's list so far, so I won't go into more detail.

2. Dana White - How nobody has mentioned him yet is beyond me. Maybe it's because he's not an active fighter, but how can anybody claim more that there is someone more responsible for the success of the UFC, and MMA in general, in America than Dana White? Dana White IS MMA right now, what you see on your television screen is Dana White's vision. The UFC was floundering and dying, and under Dana White's direction has now become one of the biggest sports in America. This guy belongs in ANY conversation when it comes to importance in MMA.

3. Chuck Liddell - In my opinion, he is the single most recognizable name in MMA, even more so than Royce Gracie. Perhaps Lesnar will one day take that from him, but for now, Liddell's fighting style and his long list of knockouts put him at the forefront of MMA discussion, even at his older age. If someone is even passingly familiar with MMA, he/she will probably have heard of Chuck Liddell, the guy who knocked everyone the fuck out.

4. Forrest Griffin/Stephan Bonnar - I'm thinking outside the box on this one. Most people agree the Griffin vs. Bonnar fight was a huge spark in the engine that is now the UFC. So I think it would only be appropriate to commemorate that fight on the MMA Mt. Rushmore. One half of the face is Griffin's, the other half is Bonnar's. I think those people who have been around MMA and Pro Wrestling long enough can picture what I am.


Those would be my four choices, at least for now. Ten years from now, one would probably have to make room for GSP and Brock Lesnar, assuming nothing happens to tarnish their reputations.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

2. Dana White - How nobody has mentioned him yet is beyond me. Maybe it's because he's not an active fighter, but how can anybody claim more that there is someone more responsible for the success of the UFC, and MMA in general, in America than Dana White? Dana White IS MMA right now, what you see on your television screen is Dana White's vision. The UFC was floundering and dying, and under Dana White's direction has now become one of the biggest sports in America. This guy belongs in ANY conversation when it comes to importance in MMA.

There's a simple answer to this question...because it's the second most "no duh" answer of all. Also, If you want to get technical with the whole thing, you'd have to remove Royce Gracie and place Rorion Gracie as the original UFC was his brainchild anyhow. He wanted to prove the superiority of BJJ.

I think the point is, once you start getting into figureheads it becomes a lot less clear who belongs on there. Is it Dana or is it Frank and Lorenzo's money? You see where I'm going with this? Dana isn't the first loudmouthed promoter to sell a fight and build an organization. See Don King and Bob Arum, but back to my original point:

Rorion Gracie is the most "no duh" answer of all. It was supposed to be Rickson that was going to represent the Gracie family at UFC 1, but Rorion stood his ground and said it would be Royce. Art Davie relented, Royce represented, and the rest is history. I'd put Rorion up there before Dana White.

 

[Slyfox696]

There's a simple answer to this question...because it's the second most "no duh" answer of all.

If it is so "no duh", then how come no one else has mentioned it? Is this the Mt. Rushmore, EXCEPT for the "no duhs"? If that's so, how come Royce Gracie is on everyone's list?

I don't understand your point here at all.

Also, If you want to get technical with the whole thing, you'd have to remove Royce Gracie and place Rorion Gracie as the original UFC was his brainchild anyhow. He wanted to prove the superiority of BJJ.

Except Rorion didn't do anything for the visibility of the UFC, much less MMA in America, so why would he belong on here? Because he started a project that was failing miserably until it was bought out? That's not what gets you on Mt. Rushmore.

Royce gave it visibility, Dana White has been in charge while it flourished. Rorion doesn't belong on this mountain.

I think the point is, once you start getting into figureheads it becomes a lot less clear who belongs on there. Is it Dana or is it Frank and Lorenzo's money? You see where I'm going with this?

No, not at all actually. Dana is the one that promotes it, Dana is the one that sells it. When you think UFC, you think Dana White. You think The Ultimate Fighter, you think Dana White.

I'm not saying he's solely responsible, but he IS the major promoter and the face of the company.

Dana isn't the first loudmouthed promoter to sell a fight and build an organization. See Don King and Bob Arum, but back to my original point:

And if we were talking about a boxing Mt. Rushmore, I'd consider them. But we're not, so again, I don't see your point.

Rorion Gracie is the most "no duh" answer of all.

No, he's not, because he doesn't belong on there at all.

I'd put Rorion up there before Dana White.

Then you'd be a fool to do so.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

If it is so "no duh", then how come no one else has mentioned it? Is this the Mt. Rushmore, EXCEPT for the "no duhs"? If that's so, how come Royce Gracie is on everyone's list?

I don't understand your point here at all.

Except Rorion didn't do anything for the visibility of the UFC, much less MMA in America, so why would he belong on here? Because he started a project that was failing miserably until it was bought out? That's not what gets you on Mt. Rushmore.

Royce gave it visibility, Dana White has been in charge while it flourished. Rorion doesn't belong on this mountain.

No, not at all actually. Dana is the one that promotes it, Dana is the one that sells it. When you think UFC, you think Dana White. You think The Ultimate Fighter, you think Dana White.

I'm not saying he's solely responsible, but he IS the major promoter and the face of the company.

And if we were talking about a boxing Mt. Rushmore, I'd consider them. But we're not, so again, I don't see your point.

No, he's not, because he doesn't belong on there at all.

Then you'd be a fool to do so.

Since this was the criteria, I wouldn't be a fool at all, you'd be a fool because you missed reading the prompt.

We've had innovators as well as the steady old guard holding on to a sport that so easily passes athletes by. Whatever terms you use to judge what makes a legend just that, there are agreements by most fans that can be reached regarding the all time greats of the sport.

Since this is a subjective question, there's no stupidity involved.

I consider the man (Rorion) who invented the idea, developed the idea, brought the idea to the mainstream, and proved his product to be superior, more valuable than a guy who, basically, did nothing more than call his HS buddies to purchase the organization after it got hamstringed by congressmen.

If Dana sells YOU a fight, then I feel bad for you. Dana doesn't "SELL" anything. The fighters sell themselves. Nobody every fucking said, "boy I was really on the fence about this until Dana White cut this commercial." I have never bought a fight because Dana "sold" it to me.

Additionally, the fighters promote their fights, they tour the entire country, there's a reason I'm typing this message while I'm standing in line to meet Shane Carwin and take a picture with him. Shane is promoting himself. Dana has a hand in promotion, sure, but fighters do their due diligence when it comes to promoting fights.

When *I* think UFC, I do not think Dana White, he's about the furthest thing from my mind. I'm actually tired of Dana White, I think he's horrible for the promotion and I think he screws his employees. Dana White isn't the best thing to happen to the UFC, he's the worst. The Fertitta's bankroll might be the best thing to happen to the UFC, but not Dana White. He's a loudmouthed promoter that is just as evil for the sport as Bob Arum and Don King, that shouldn't be rewarded, that's my point.

Then again, why would expect anyone to give the man who invented, established, promoted, and brought the sport to the mainstream any sort of credit whatsoever? That would make too much sense. George Washington wasn't an amazing president, but he was the FIRST, though, that's why he's on Mt. Rushmore. Rorion was the FIRST does that make a little more sense to you or do I need to spell it out more so you can understand it?

Royce didn't give anything visibility. He was a fighter. Rorion and Art Davie put together everything needed to market the event and sell it on PPV. THEY gave it visibility. Royce was just another competitor.

You just contradicted yourself. In one sentence you said Dana White sells it and promotes it (That's what Rorion did when it began), and in another sentence you said that Rorion didn't do anything it was Royce that gave it visibility. You can't have it both ways. Which is it? The Fighter or the Promoter? Without Rorion there is no Royce.

My point is relegated to the initial outset of the promotion. A promotions president doesn't NEED to promote it after a certain point. Roger Goodell doesn't "sell" you NFL games, David Stern doesn't "sell" you the NBA finals. They don't need to at this point. Just like Dana White doesn't SELL you a fight. If anything, we sell it to each other. Word of mouth is more vital to MMA than Dana White.

Also, isn't this the MMA Mt. Rushmore? Not the UFC Mt. Rushmore? Rorion INVENTED MMA how does me putting him on there make me a fool? Think before you type

 

[Slyfox696]

Since this was the criteria, I wouldn't be a fool at all, you'd be a fool because you missed reading the prompt.

Except the part I called you a fool for had absolutely nothing to do with the prompt.

Since this is a subjective question, there's no stupidity involved.

Oh, I beg to differ. If I were to say Paul Daley deserved to be on this imaginary mountain, that would be stupid. He's done nothing to earn it. Just because it is subjective, doesn't mean stupidity can't be involved.

I consider the man (Rorion) who invented the idea, developed the idea, brought the idea to the mainstream, and proved his product to be superior, more valuable than a guy who, basically, did nothing more than call his HS buddies to purchase the organization after it got hamstringed by congressmen.

Wow, this may be the most exaggeration I've seen in a long time.

First of all, the concept of bringing together different fighting styles was not invented by Rorion. Clashes between boxers and wrestlers have gone back over a hundred years. Hell, the movie Rocky 3 depicted a wrestler vs. a boxer. Rorion may have brought the idea of different types of "karate" (for lack of a better term) to America, but to say he invented the idea of Mixed Martial Arts, even in America, is absurd.

Second of all, he DIDN'T bring the UFC to the mainstream. The UFC never went mainstream UNTIL Dana White was in the fold, which only goes to solidify MY point. The UFC was going bankrupt until they were bought out by Dana White and the group now called Zuffa for $2 million. That's NOT mainstream. Dana White and Zuffa took MMA in the United States mainstream, most notably spurred by the success of The Ultimate Fighter.

If Dana sells YOU a fight, then I feel bad for you. Dana doesn't "SELL" anything. The fighters sell themselves. Nobody every fucking said, "boy I was really on the fence about this until Dana White cut this commercial." I have never bought a fight because Dana "sold" it to me.

Either you're incredibly ignorant to what I'm saying, or you're purposefully misrepresenting.

Dana White is the man who has sold the image of UFC. Back in the day, the UFC was known as a barbaric competition (it wasn't even considered a sport). With Dana White at the helm, the UFC now has a reputation of a sport, but also as a place where guys go "to finish fights". Every season of The Ultimate Fighter, you see Dana White's influence. The idea of going balls out in everything you do related to MMA is the product of Dana White's influence. To use a professional wrestling example, think of the reputation the original ECW had. It has a certain reputation, as does the UFC now, and that culture is defined by Dana White and that culture is what sells the UFC.

I'm not saying that I'm undecided on a fight unless Dana cuts a promo, what I'm saying is that Dana White's attitude has cultivated a culture amongst both MMA fans and fighters, which is very much apart of the success the UFC now enjoys.

When *I* think UFC, I do not think Dana White, he's about the furthest thing from my mind. I'm actually tired of Dana White, I think he's horrible for the promotion and I think he screws his employees. Dana White isn't the best thing to happen to the UFC, he's the worst. The Fertitta's bankroll might be the best thing to happen to the UFC, but not Dana White. He's a loudmouthed promoter that is just as evil for the sport as Bob Arum and Don King, that shouldn't be rewarded, that's my point.

Well, now that we have your obvious bias against Dana White out in the open, I guess there's no need discussing why you are so wrong.

Royce didn't give anything visibility. He was a fighter.

Oh, good Lord Gay guy. You can't honestly believe this can you? The way Royce won those earliest fights, the pure skill, the promoting of the belief that a smaller more skilled man can take out a large man...all those were HUGE for the earliest days of the UFC.

Royce was just another competitor.

If he was "just another competitor", how come he's a legend known by every MMA fan, and Keith Hackney isn't? How come no one knows Gerard Gordeau or Steve Jennum? How come when you think of the early UFCs, you ALWAYS think Royce Gracie?

That's just absurd.

You just contradicted yourself. In one sentence you said Dana White sells it and promotes it (That's what Rorion did when it began), and in another sentence you said that Rorion didn't do anything it was Royce that gave it visibility. You can't have it both ways. Which is it? The Fighter or the Promoter?

It's the guy who draws the fans. So it's Royce and Dana and not Rorion. Royce drew the fans with his Cage work and Dana draws them now with the attitude he has developed amongst the sport.

This isn't hard to understand. I mean, are you really saying that if we're going to talk about who is the reason the WWE is on top, we can't mention BOTH Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon? Your line of logic is just silly, and it's all because you have an obvious bias against Dana white and want to give him little credit.

Which is funny, because earlier you said he was a "no duh" answer. I just don't understand what the fuck you're even trying to say anymore.

Also, isn't this the MMA Mt. Rushmore? Not the UFC Mt. Rushmore? Rorion INVENTED MMA how does me putting him on there make me a fool? Think before you type

Me think before I type? How about you do a little reading before you make an ass of yourself? I VERY clearly said the following in my first post in the thread:

I don't know much MMA in Japan history, so I'll speak simply from an American MMA side, which is lucky since Mt. Rushmore is an American landmark.

So, I made it VERY clear I was speaking ONLY of American MMA, for which UFC is basically the only game in town. And since YOU replied to ME, that means you're talking under my conditions, so that's why you look like a fool.

And, again, there was MMA in the United States before Rorion Gracie was ever even born, as I pointed out with the competition between boxers and wrestlers. Trying to say he invented it is just stupid. You've never struck me as a stupid person, so quit doing so now.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

We're going to just drop it here because there's ideological differences that I can tell we're never going to agree upon. Like you, I've been watching UFC and MMA since the days of Colorado. I am also a practitioner, however, so I hold Rorion and Helio Gracie in the highest respect. I consider them to be more crucial to the game of MMA per their contributions, not just by giving us the UFC, but through BJJ, than some asshat jazzercize instructor that just happened to have the two richest HS friends ever.