Mick Foley's arrival in the WWF

[justtxyank]

I heard Mick Foley on the radio yesterday talking about how he came to the WWF and became a star and what not. Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but first I heard of the story and I thought it was something people might like to hear.

Apparently Jim Ross had been campaigning hard for the WWF to hire Foley for awhile prior to him getting the gig and Vince McMahon was completely against it. Ross had pushed so hard that eventually towards the end of 1995 Vince relented but told the creative team (including Ross) that he thought Foley was so ugly that he wanted to cover his face. Thus the birth of Mankind.

Long story short: Vince was 100% against Foley coming in and only relented as a favor to JR but insisted on the creation of the Mankind character as a way to hide how ugly he thought Foley was.

Also of note was that Foley said that he deeply offended when he finally learned this and he said if he had known this at the time he would never have signed with the WWF.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

Actually, Foley had a really short stint as a jobber for Vince years earlier, when he was just starting out. I remember seeing him as part of a tag team of jobbers to the British Bulldogs. It was noteworthy, and a sign of things to come, as the Dynamite Kid worked him really stiff. Mick went to school of hard knocks in that match.

 

[justtxyank]

Actually, Foley had a really short stint as a jobber for Vince years earlier, when he was just starting out. I remember seeing him as part of a tag team of jobbers to the British Bulldogs. It was noteworthy, and a sign of things to come, as the Dynamite Kid worked him really stiff. Mick went to school of hard knocks in that match.

We are obviously talking about him being rehired in 1995/96 here not his stints as a jobber in various promotions in the late 80s and early 90s where he got the snot beat out of him. Foley also worked for WCW prior to his well known stint as Cactus Jack and also worked for Herb Abrams in the UWF. He's a well traveled man.

 

[laodaron]

We are obviously talking about him being rehired in 1995/96 here not his stints as a jobber in various promotions in the late 80s and early 90s where he got the snot beat out of him. Foley also worked for WCW prior to his well known stint as Cactus Jack and also worked for Herb Abrams in the UWF. He's a well traveled man.

The point is that Mick's history puts a giant whole in your story boat. If Vince thought he was ugly in the early 90s, why did he hire him and let him job on TV without a mask?

He was probably put in a mask when he came in so that Vince could distance himself from the horrendously putrid stuff that Mick did all around the world, with fire, explosions, barbed wire, tacks, etc. The same garbage that nearly ruined the WWE in the mid 2000s. The torture porn that only sickos could get a thrill from watching. That's a much more likely reason for the mask than the fact that Vince thought he was ugly.

Also, Mick is a comedian. His way to make money right now is to make people laugh, and he's incredible at self-deprecating humor.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The point is that Mick's history puts a giant whole in your story boat. If Vince thought he was ugly in the early 90s, why did he hire him and let him job on TV without a mask?

He was probably put in a mask when he came in so that Vince could distance himself from the horrendously putrid stuff that Mick did all around the world, with fire, explosions, barbed wire, tacks, etc. The same garbage that nearly ruined the WWE in the mid 2000s. The torture porn that only sickos could get a thrill from watching. That's a much more likely reason for the mask than the fact that Vince thought he was ugly.

Also, Mick is a comedian. His way to make money right now is to make people laugh, and he's incredible at self-deprecating humor.

Seriously?

Do you think that Vince even remembered he'd used Foley for a couple TV jobs in the mid 80's? Do you think that Vince even had a thing to do with hiring the TV job guys? That was local promoters, agents, whomever. They'd put a call out before they got to a town they were doing TV in looking for guys they could use on TV. That's how Foley got that TV spot (he also worked with the Killer Bee's for anyone wondering).

In the 90's Foley would put in an annual call to the WWF around the time his WCW contract was about to roll over into the next year. He'd always speak with JJ Dillon, who would tell him that they didn't need anyone right then, but to keep in touch. Basically giving him the brush off every year. Eventually, I think after Dillon left the WWF, thanks to Jim Ross, McMahon finally heard about Cactus Jack (Dillon hadn't even been letting McMahon know about Foley's interest). McMahon didn't see anything marketable in the Cactus Jack character, and that's where Mankind was born. The mask? It was because Vince wanted to hide Foley's looks.

 

[justtxyank]

The point is that Mick's history puts a giant whole in your story boat.

Well it isn't my story, it's the story that Mick Foley says was told to him by Bruce Prichard and Jim Ross. So...call him a liar.

If Vince thought he was ugly in the early 90s, why did he hire him and let him job on TV without a mask?

I'm not sure if this is a joke or a serious question. You think decisions about who can do tv jobs and who can be inserted into high level feuds with The Undertaker are made using the same criteria?

He was probably put in a mask when he came in so that Vince could distance himself from the horrendously putrid stuff that Mick did all around the world, with fire, explosions, barbed wire, tacks, etc. The same garbage that nearly ruined the WWE in the mid 2000s. The torture porn that only sickos could get a thrill from watching. That's a much more likely reason for the mask than the fact that Vince thought he was ugly.

I don't disagree with you about the hardcore torture porn being ridiculous, but I doubt Vince was all that worried about Foley's death matches in Japan during the 90s when very few people saw that stuff. He brought in guys from ECW and didn't put them in a mask. Also, the original plan for Wrestlemania 14 was to have a barbed wire match between Funk and Foley.

Also, Mick is a comedian. His way to make money right now is to make people laugh, and he's incredible at self-deprecating humor.

Also true. So if you want to say he's making it up, just say that. You could do that with fewer words.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

I heard Mick Foley on the radio yesterday talking about how he came to the WWF and became a star and what not. Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but first I heard of the story and I thought it was something people might like to hear.

Apparently Jim Ross had been campaigning hard for the WWF to hire Foley for awhile prior to him getting the gig and Vince McMahon was completely against it. Ross had pushed so hard that eventually towards the end of 1995 Vince relented but told the creative team (including Ross) that he thought Foley was so ugly that he wanted to cover his face. Thus the birth of Mankind.

Long story short: Vince was 100% against Foley coming in and only relented as a favor to JR but insisted on the creation of the Mankind character as a way to hide how ugly he thought Foley was.

Also of note was that Foley said that he deeply offended when he finally learned this and he said if he had known this at the time he would never have signed with the WWF.

I never heard that theory before, though there may be some credibility to it. Mick / Mankind came in before the Attitude Era came about, at a time when the WWE was in a sort of identity crisis. They didn't know whether or not they were catering to the young fans, as they did in the Hogan years, or to a more mature audience. Bearing that in mind, perhaps Vince didn't know either which direction he was heading. Having Mick Foley walk around with a half-severed ear exposed probably didn't fit in to his ideas at the time.
Shawn Michaels was the WWE poster boy and flag bearer, yet he came across as some sort of sexually ambiguous male stripper at the time. The young kids in the crowd were wearing his trademark leather hat and chaps as merchandise they could buy at the concession stands! Michaels was more of an attraction to the female demographic (which did not translate well into ratings).
Meanwhile, as an almost antithesis to the Michaels persona, in comes Mankind - a deranged masked lunatic who pulls out his hair and sits rocking in dark corners. At first Mankind was so out of place in that environment, until he collided with Taker. Then it all started to make sense why he was there. It was an interesting era where they were both trying to create new superheroes, and at the same time starting to explore darker characters with morally ambiguous traits. Taker starting going darker, as was Mankind, and don't even get me started with Goldust!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

As above... what JR probably didn't get across well to Foley was that Vince was probably referencing the EAR rather than Mick himself, let's face it he'd allowed Bam Bam Bigelow and Bastion Booger to be on his TV, and Foley was no way "uglier" than them, but he did have a very clear deformity caused by in ring action and that is hard to explain away. Especially when Mick still was using the same spot that caused it!.

Vince was probably guilty of not "knowing" Mick, who he was, what he was about and judging him as the "lunatic who nearly burned down an area with Funk". JR went to bat for Foley and showed Vince some of the other ECW stuff including "Cane Dewey" and it got the wheels turning. I am sure Vince never imagined Mick becoming anything other than "freak of the week" for Taker but Mick himself was able to put clever thinking into the character like the name, the split music for entering and exiting etc... and Vince bought into Mick Foley as more than jsut the guy with no ear...

To this day I don't think they've nailed a character out the box as well as Mankind... ominous dirge coming to the ring and then that almost "Incredible Hulk Theme" piano tune when he won... Foley rocking to that after a win was what set him apart... once he could have ideas, pull them off AND he had that awesome match with Shawn, then Vince was his biggest fan.

 

[rmp0012002]

Mick was actually in decent shape when he started out in his career but he was never going to be more than a jobber. Mick was the toughest guy, the one with the highest pain threshold and the king of the death match. Mankind was still that guy but once he started Dude Love and Socko he became a caricature. While it made him a star, it's sad that he had to abuse himself to the point of almost being a vegetable to get there. I was happy for him beating the Rock after Bischoff had Schiavone tell everyone the title change was going to happen.

 

[Wald]

I have read that JR had to push hard for Foley to get hired alright but I hadn't heard about it being to do with his physical appearance.

We all know Vince has his preferred form of wrestling, the PG product of the New Generation or WWE around about 2010, so I always assumed that he was just put off by Mick's reputation as the king of death matches more than anything else. I have heard Vince say he doesn't think much of hardcore matches and that he doesn't really consider it proper wrestling (I also agree with him) so being asked to hire the king of hardcore matches probably didn't appeal to him too much.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

I have read that JR had to push hard for Foley to get hired alright but I hadn't heard about it being to do with his physical appearance.

We all know Vince has his preferred form of wrestling, the PG product of the New Generation or WWE around about 2010, so I always assumed that he was just put off by Mick's reputation as the king of death matches more than anything else. I have heard Vince say he doesn't think much of hardcore matches and that he doesn't really consider it proper wrestling (I also agree with him) so being asked to hire the king of hardcore matches probably didn't appeal to him too much.

These days, unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Vince remembers what proper wrestling is. Either that, or he has become completely disinterested in it.