Match of the Year - Undertaker vs Mankind, 1998

[IrishCanadian25]

After some fantastic (and heated) debates formed in the 5/5/08 Raw Live Discussion thread about which "PWI Matches of the Year" were deserving of the title, I decided to start posting the past "Matches of the Year" to be opened up for debate.

1. What were the finer points of the match?
2. Did this match DESERVE to be MOTY - Why or Why Not?
3. If not, WHICH match that year SHOULD have won the honor?

In this first installment, we will dissect The Undertaker vs Mankind in the epic and brutal "Hell in a Cell" match from King of the Ring 1998. Taker launching Mankind off the top of the cell through an announce table, only to have Mankind RETURN TO THE RING for further punishment, set the gold standard for hardcore high spots and absolutely stupidity. The shot of Foley's body limply crushing the announce table in tandem with Jim Ross's announce work has become one of the most iconic moments in the history of professional wrestling.

But did this match deserve 1998's MOTY honors?

[youtube]g9ZukeX9DtI[/youtube]

 

[Y 2 Jake]

In what way does this deserve any MOTY awards? It's terrible. It's two incredibly impressive bumps, a pointless thumb tac spot, and thats it.

It's entertaining. But only because of how stupid Mick Foley is. And WWE have played those bumps to death, which has lessened the impact some what. I don't think anybody can dispute how impressive they are. But any sort of magazine or forum who votes this as a match of the year either hasn't watched the match, or they just pick the biggest match of the year.

Edit: Which match should have won?

It's between the HHH/Rock Ladder match at Summer Slam. Triple H's last match before he became a total bore. Or Austin vs. Dude Love. Both from Unforgiven & Over The Edge. Both are great. But I still feel the ladder match was better. Especially considering it still holds up today, where ladder matches are far more risky.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's impressive, that's for sure. It's entertaining, that's for sure. It's between two my favourites and two of the biggest names in wrestling history. Is it 1998's match of the year? No. It'll go down in history and will forever be talked about amongst wrestling fans, but not as a great match. It's regarded as the greatest bumps ever to happen in WWE history.

That being said, a case can be made for it being match of the year. Like I said, it is a very, very significant moment in wrestling history and something that both The Undertaker and Mick Foley and synonymous with to this very day; thanks in no small part to the aforementioned overuse by the WWE. And hey, maybe it was a great match. Maybe spots and bumps and what the hell ever do make a great match.

However, it lacked any real sort of flow or intensity. It juttered about from spot to spot, the only visible transition being Mick Foley taking a few hours to get the fuck up from one to the next. So I maintain my position that it was in fact not match of the year 1998. I'd give alternatives but quite frankly I struggle remembering what matches go with certain years, even recent ones.

EDIT: Oh, and it inspires backyard wrestlers to this very day too. Never a good thing.

 

[Starchild]

The match was a landmark in the history of WWE and wrestling in general. It was really the birth of big spots like that. Only after did we see the TLC matches, HIAC falls, etc. Now in the first, Shawn did take a fall but clearly not as impressive as either of Foley's. I def. have to say this is one of my favorite matches in the history of wrestling because of it's entertainment value.

Having said that, and I could see why it would be moty, but I'd have to agree with Jake..the best match that year was HHH/Rock in the ladder match at Summerslam. That was just an unbelievable show of talent from both. It was the match that would really propel both to stardom and eventually multiple world championships each. Remember this was at the height of the Nation vs DX feud and was for the IC title.
I must disagree on one thing with Jake though, Trips had many exciting matches following this. I'd say this match and the Mankind/HHH cage match as well as being in DX were really the kickstart to his career.

 

[X]

Without a doubt this match deserves match of the year people, are you kidding me here?

As you all said, the actual action involved in the match is shit at best, and the entire match can be described as "Taker Throws Foley Off Cell---Foley Gets Up---Taker Throws Foley on Thumbtacks---Foley Doesn't Get Up". That is the entire match pretty much.

But PWI has never voted for this annual prize based on what was the best technical wrestling match, but what was the most entertaining and important. That HIAC match is synonymous with the entire year of 1998 and is without a doubt one of the most important matches in the history of wrestling. It set the bar for bumps; from there on out, fans would be pissed if a PPV didn't atleast have one good bump. Whether this is a good or bad thing is debatable. The effect of the match is not.

Personally, my favorite matches of 1998 are the Taker-HBK Casket match at the Royal Rumble and the Rock-HHH 2 out of 3 Falls Match at Fully Loaded. Their ladder match the following month at Summerslam gets most attention from fans, but they had an absolute classic the previous month that couldn't be topped in my book.

 

[xmoshx]

at them time no one was expected to see mick foley thrown off the top of the cage and that was an insane spot never done in the wwe. but besides that spot and the choke slam through the cage the match was and will alwlays be over rated MOTY def not

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

First and foremost...IC...that is a horrendous video. I almost sprayed ant killer all over myself when i was watching that. No one watch that...it in no way does justice to this match.

Secondly, I wonder what criteria that PWI uses to determine its match of the year. During the Attitude Era, it seems as though it was based on a combination of sheer entertainment and overall impact on the industry. 97 you have Hart v. Austin...the double turn. A good selection in terms of both entertainment and impact, but some may argue that Montreal was more significant. It's debatable.

But with those criteria assumed, Mankind v. Undertaker HIAC is hands down worthy of match of the year in 98. This match set the pace for all of the high flying spots that the WWF/E has seen over the past decade, and it really solidified Foley as a top guy. Sure, he could cut promos like nobody's business and was creative enough to pull off three characters, but this match gave him that "it" factor. It was an industry changing match.

I think many of us take for granted the fact that Foley got back up after being thrown off the first time. Sometimes I'll flop on the ground, and then I'll get up and think..."wow, that really freaking hurts." I cannot imagine being thrown off something 20 times higher and then landing on a table. The fact that he got up after that is just phenomenal.

But wait...

Then Foley gets freaking chokeslammed through the cage and falls to the ring. Jeeez oh pete. Holy crap. At least when he got thrown off of the side he landed on a table which would absorb some of the impact. But this time, he falls right onto the mat, which is a little less devastating than hitting the ground floor. Furthermore, a chair comes down and hits him on the head at the same time. There's no way that Foley gets up from that...

But he does. He goes and gets freaking thumbtacks. And then UT backdrops and chokeslams him onto the thumbtacks. He does this all while having kidney damage, a concussion, a dislocated shoulder, and a tooth shoved through his lip.

Not only do you have to give props to Mick and UT, but Lawler and J.R. sold this match as being comparable to a war. You could really feel the impact and depth of what was occurring through their commentating.

To even consider that this match is not match of the year is doing a great disservice to the effort of both men. Not only did Foley have to go through all those spots, but the Undertaker had to experience the reality that he might be ending Foley's career. That CANNOT be underestimated.

As a wrestling community, we have become desensitized to this match. TLCs and Jeff Hardy have made us forget how truly revolutionary this match was in a mainstream cable televised federation. ECW was doing things like that, but what they were doing could not begin to compete with the impact that this match had on the lives of those who watched and the industry as a whole.

Match of the year? No question.

 

[Uncle Sam]

As you all said, the actual action involved in the match is shit at best, and the entire match can be described as "Taker Throws Foley Off Cell---Foley Gets Up---Taker Throws Foley on Thumbtacks---Foley Doesn't Get Up". That is the entire match pretty much.

As a bunch of what I suppose you could call smarks, I think that's the reason right there. However, I do agree with your reasoning. I think most of us are thinking of what we thought should be match of the year; judging by our own criteria. By PWI's criteria, that match was in fact that most significant and important of the year - it was more prominent than any match that year and for that, I do think that it should be the PWI match of the year.

 

[klunderbunker]

For me this is the match of the year. Without thinking that hard about it, I can't htink of a flat out better match from that year. The other thing is, in my mind, the match of the year should be the most entertaining, and to me this was the entertaining match of the year. A Hell in a Cell match is supposed to be just what the name implies: Two men, trapped in Hell. To have a technical classic or even a traditional wrestling match here would make little sense. If you were in a fight with a person you hate, I don't think you'll use a wristlock and go around into a hammerlock. You'd use whatever you can to hurt them as badly as possible, which is what this match was based on. It did exactly what it was supposed to do, and did it at a very high level. It was a brutal fight between two of the biggest stars in the company and it blew the doors off of the place. That video has been seen thousands of time since then, not to mention it was the match that changed what a gimmick match was in WWE and probably America. Match of the Year by far.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

First and foremost...IC...that is a horrendous video. I almost sprayed ant killer all over myself when i was watching that. No one watch that...it in no way does justice to this match.

Yeah, I can't view You Tube on my work computer, so I just found a code on Google and posted it. I will post a better one later when I am at my home computer. Damn surf control rules.


1998 was fairly light on MOTY candidates, so I can see how it'd be easy for the Taker / Foley match to come up in first. But think of what it did for the two men's characters. It reminded everyone that Undertaker was pure evil and would put his opponent's life on the line to win a match - a mystique he lost in the mid-90's. It cemented Foley as the difinitive Hardcore Legend of this generation (post-Funk) and really launched him to the WWF Title ranks.

Bam Bam Bigelow vs Taz has been mentioned as a viable option, but also remember Michaels vs Austin was that year as well. And of course, Goldberg vs Hogan - one of the most important title changes in a long time.

This was also a year when no mid-card match trult stole the show as it had in prior years. Usually the Intercontinental Title could be depended on for some pop, but most of the top rated matches were main events or involved World Titles.

 

[Gelgarin]

I made a comment during the LD last night about 'nobody using the lengthy sections of Mick Foley being injured to go get a packed of crisps', and I think that pretty much sums up why this match won the award.

Let’s be honest here, all the matches that would be considered MotY candidate... we've probably already watched them all more times than would traditionally be considered healthy. And I think the reason a lot of us cast doubt upon the Taker-Foley match is because it NEVER comes close to looking as good on the second viewing.

Once you've seen the cell drops, once you know they're coming, and most importantly you know that Mick Foley gets up again, writes a book and lives happily ever after; the spots loose a great deal of their intensity value, and the stop start motion between them becomes laborious.

With that in mind, if you judge match of the year on the criteria of one you can watch over and over again and never get sick of, then Rock-HHH is probably a far more logical choice. I can detect no rhyme of reason behind PWI's award scheme and personally think they just draw names out of a hat... but that’s another issue.

If I drop the pretence of PWI match of the year however; and as if it was "Gelgarin's Match of the Year" TM, then the only answer I can possibly give is "Hell Year!".

The primary focus of any match is to capture the interest of the crowd. And as someone who remembers watching the match for the first time, I have never, ever been as captivated by any sporting sceptical (including real ones) as I was that night. The long pause after the first cell drop wasn't spend channel surfing or chanting "boring" at the TV; it was spent with my eyes glued to the screen wondering if the Undertaker had just legitimately killed Mick Foley. After that point, match quality went out the window. The fact that Mick got up and carried on told a batter story and captured more hearts and minds than any degree of textbook chain wrestling could ever hope to.

It's like Hogan-André. You show someone a tape of that match now and, chances are, they'll respond with a resounding "Meh", and wonder what all the fuss is about. But when it actually happened (I'm told, I'm not that old myself) it was one of the most amazing spectacles in pro wrestling history.

So match of the year? Sure thing. Match of all time... debatable; but if you ask me you could do one hell of a a lot worse with your vote.

 

[donne25]

For sheer shock value and brutality, the Hell in the Cell between Undertaker and Mankind was amazing. Never before or since has there been such insane brutality in the ring, and just for that it deserves recognition as one of the most important matches of all time. However, while I think the match deserves top five recognition for its originality and gore, I believe that the match of the year is an underrated classic that happened in the very beginning: Royal Rumble 1998: Shawn Michaels versus the Undertaker in a casket match. The conclusion of an interesting trilogy that began at Ground Zero, the Michaels-Taker casket match had everything: Great wrestling between the two who possessed remarkable chemistry. Great spots (michael’s piledriving the undertaker on the steps, Michaels elbowing the undertaker in the casket, and the tombstone in the casket by the taker). Great additional drama (the run-ins by the other wrestlers, kane’s inevitable heel turn, and the casket being set on fire (something totally copied in the Ortons-Taker casket match). And finally it possessed great historical importance in that it was the match where Michael’s hurt his back, ending what could be one of the greatest three year periods for any wrestler in terms of matches and persona. Usually, casket matches suck, but the Taker-Michael’s casket match took it to a level that will probably never be reached again.

 

[FlairFan2003]

"It's like Hogan-André. You show someone a tape of that match now and, chances are, they'll respond with a resounding "Meh", and wonder what all the fuss is about. But when it actually happened (I'm told, I'm not that old myself) it was one of the most amazing spectacles in pro wrestling history."

Hogan/Andre had great intensity and emotion, built up from tremendous story telling and the viability of the two characters...Hogan was the hottest guy on the planet and Andre was the freak of nature with the 20 yr undefeated streak. Purely on athleticism it was not a great match but it WAS HUGE at the time due to so many other factors.

Personally, I think the HHH/Rock 2 out of 3 falls match was the best of 1998, Austin's WM Title win was good (both a good match and incredibly important). I agree the Taker/Foley, while having some of the most brutal spots was mostly a slow paced boring match. The one moment in time however with Taker tossing Foley off the cage will be forever remembered, just like Jimmy Snuka truly "Super Flying" off THE TOP OFTHE CAGE onto Bob Backlund in the World Title Match (1982 I think, maybe 81?).

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Im sure there were better matches that year, none of which come to my mind, becuase those were back in the days before I possesed the ability to watch PPV. But do I ever remember the next night on RAW, being a young kid, absolutely not being able to belive what I was seeing. Its a bump that remains impressive today, but AT THAT moment in time, there had never been ANYTHING remotely close to that insane happening in WWE. The closest was HBK falling off of ladders, and the like. I mean, if you watch it, and truly think about the perameters, Foley actually stood a higher chance of DEATH than living. Inches further in any direction, and he wouldve DIED. And thats just for the spot that was actually PLANNED. I guess its just the criteria you use to base MOTY off of. If we are talking emotional investment, and entertainment, this is unmatchable. I gurantee you everyone, ESPECIALLY the long time WWE marks, were totally invested, on the edge of their seat the entire match. Its a hard one to gauge to be honest.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Personally...I think there were probably better matches around that yr. given it was just before it i started wrestling, i can't actually suggest any alternatives.

However, I think the Match did have two SICK spots. I mean it was unthinkable that someone would actually be thrown off/through a cell, let alone TWICE in one match! the spots in the match were ridulously impressive though. I think it's the fact that no-one had seen it before and will probably never see it again. As much as spots are awful for winning the match of the year, they were impressive.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

I admit, im a huge Foley mark. However, if you watch the match itself, it was pretty sbland match, paart form the two huge bumps which made people sit up and take notice.

However, this seems to be the best match i remember(mainly due to the bumps and the fact I was in tears when I watched it back in 98). Jim Ross was at the top of his game in it, he sounded legitimately concerec(which im sure he was) when Foley got thrown off.

And the standing ovation that Foley got afterwards I will never forget.

 

[mulvey187]

shut up j2jake if not for this match mick foley wouldnt have goten on the map or they coudnt of branded undertaker as being sick and sadistick this is a prime moment in wrestling. and everyone knoes wrestling would not be popular if it was just 30 min mat matches all the time.

 

[MVP4WWEChamp!]

I think it is not the best WRESTLING match of the year, but it was the most important match of the year. I think the MOTY honor shouldn't only signify the best wrestling match, but also the match that most remember from that year, and that is this match.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

shut up j2jake if not for this match mick foley wouldnt have goten on the map or they coudnt of branded undertaker as being sick and sadistick this is a prime moment in wrestling. and everyone knoes wrestling would not be popular if it was just 30 min mat matches all the time.

That match single handedly ruined every other Hell In A Cell match. Everyone always bitches about how nobody goes on the cage anymore.

I don't think anybody has said that this wasn't an important match, or that it didn't get Foley over huge. I said it was shit. Because it is, from a wrestling standpoint.

I think it is not the best WRESTLING match of the year, but it was the most important match of the year. I think the MOTY honor shouldn't only signify the best wrestling match, but also the match that most remember from that year, and that is this match.

No. The HBK/Austin match from Mania is the most important. Although this one is the most famous.

 

[Shocky]

Without question this is match of the year. Hell this maybe the match of the decade in the WWE, if not one of the top five all time matches in the history of the WWE. Is it a technical masterpiece, hell no, but why would it be with Mick Foley and the Undertaker.

I think people fail to remember this in the context of the times, especially when it came to the Foley vs. Taker feud. That feud was brutal, very brutal for the times. Mankind had the Undertaker's number. They wrestled numerous times which resulted in someone getting their ass kicked badly. This match was the only logical way to end this feud, and what a way to put an explanation point on it.

Mick Foley was the only character to that point that had the Deadmans' number, and I can list the number of crap wrestlers the WWE tried to push into that spot. The Undertaker also was riding a wave of being almost a cute and cuddly version of the Deadman. Not since locking the Warrior in a casket in the Summer of 1991 had the Undertaker been brutal or viscous.

Michaels and the Undertaker set the bar high for the cage match after the first one, and Mick Foley being the crazy son of a bitch he is, wanted to out do it. This match did so much for the three involved. It solidified the Undertaker as an evil bad ass once again willing to do whatever he wanted to to anyone, including his arch rival. It made Mick Foley a sympathetic character leading to his championship runs and finally gave him credability amongst regular wrestling fans. Finally, it solidified the Cell as themost dangerous match in the history of the company.

It raised the bar, hell yes, is it a disapointment when someone doesn't go to the top, meh, not really. Hell in the Cell's have sucked since then. There have been two great cell matches since, Foley again busting his ass to make Triple H look good, and the Undertaker and Brock Lesnar. Outside of that, the matches have been terrible to average at best.

 

[kieran_devlin]

Rather than being a technical match it was more entertainment factor, the wow factor and the lasting effect of the match. I mean there were probly better RAW singles that year but this match had some of the most widely recognised bumps ever in history of wrestling.

IF it wasnt for Foley getting thrown off the cell i dont think wrestling would have so many high spots or those spotacular shows of Jeff Hardy. Really high bumps like throw off off cages and laders wouldnt be happening if it wasnt for Foley.

Plus when was the last time you saw someone go right through a cage like that!
It wasnt even mean to happen! He was only supposed to hit the cell.

If anything Taker totaly f'd up Foley and it is in wrestling history!

Im a BIG TAKER fan so you can guess how cool it was to watch for me.

Im with you guys tho that there is plenty of other more technical matches that year. It was full of great matches truly a good year for wrestling.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Okay, so one more time with the correct year this time. Why Mick Foley v. the Undertaker is anything BUT MOTY quality. And a whole LIST of matches that easily top it.

1. Wrestlemania XIV: W.W.F. Championship: Shawn Michaels v. Steve Austin: Shawn Michaels, with a broken back, out performed Mick Foley's bumpfest from KOTR. Steve Austin, quite possibly his best technical match to date, was this match against Shawn Michaels. You can't have a Wrestlemania match with H.B.K. and call it anything less than great. (short of it being against Mr. McMahon) This was the coming of age match for Steve Austin, the passing of the torch, and it was at the time what many people felt was Shawn's last match.

2. Triple H. v. The Rock: *(any match) It doesn't matter if you take their time limit draw from Fully Loaded, their Ladder match from Summerslam, or their KOTR qualifying match from Raw, not to mention any others I've missed. Triple H. v. The Rock, in 1998 was the underrated feud of the year. And any one of their matches out performs the HIAC match from KOTR.

3. Summerslam: W.W.F. Championship: Steve Austin v. The Undertaker: So you want an Undertaker match? Why not pick the best one hes ever had against Steve Austin, from Summerslam of 98. At one point in this match, Taker does something hes rarely if ever done before.. leg dropped from the top rope, to Steve Austin, through the announce table! You want a bump, there you go.

4. Souled Out: Ric Flair v. Bret Hart: Bret Hart's first p.p.v. match for W.C.W., and it was a technical gem of a beauty. Hart and Flair from Souled Out is vastly underrated and forgotten about, and I have no clue why. These two stole that show, and if you get the chance to watch it. It might not have fan popping bumps all over the place, but its definately a mat classic for true wrestling fans.

5. Uncensored: U.S. Championship: D.D.P. v. Chris Benoit v. Raven: This rivalry, between the three of them was quite possibly my favorite rivalry of all time. I wasn't a huge D.D.P. fan, but I was very big on Benoit and huge on Raven. This was an E.C.W. meets W.C.W. hardcore match, at its finest. Inwhich D.D.P. finds himself becoming part of the Uncensored lightening sign. And the finish saw Raven take a wicked Diamond Cutter from the top rope, through a botched table spot. Definately better than HIAC.

6. Best of Seven: Chris Benoit v. Booker T.: (all 8 of them) Much like the W.W.F.'s version of H.H.H. v. Rock, W.C.W. didn't disappoint with Benoit v. Booker T. You could take any one of their Best of matches, or their Spring Stampede match, and it would top the KOTR HIAC match in an instant. When I'm asked what match/feud I love, the Benoit/Booker T. classics come to mind almost instantly.

7. Nitro: World Championship: Goldberg v. Hulk Hogan: Wasn't the most technical of matches, or the greatest. But if you want a changing of the guard, and one of the largest pops (against Hogan) you'll ever hear.. it was when Bill Goldberg took the World Championship off him, in Atlanta, on Nitro.

8. Halloween Havoc: U.S. Championship: Bret Hart v. Sting: The entire Halloween Havoc p.p.v. to me is one of the great Pay Per Views I've ever witnessed. But the one match that sticks out to me, as great.. Bret Hart v. Sting. The match that thousands of fans wanted to see for the longest time, and with exception of the ending, the match didn't disappoint. (least of all, me)

9. E.C.W. T.V. Championship: Taz v. Bam Bam Bigelow: I can't remember which Pay Per View it was, but one of the most talked about moments in E.C.W. history was when Bigelow sent Taz through the rampway. They had two classics, at Living Dangerously and Heat Wave. Take your pick, as dispite his size. Bam Bam Bigelow was and will forever be one of the best big man workers of our lifetime.

Now then, the list of matches I won't go into detail about, yet deserve to be mentioned are as follows.. All of which could out-shine the HIAC match, in which it was nothing more than a bump off the Cell, through the Cell, then onto tacks.

Note-Worthy Mentions: D Lo Brown v. X-Pac from Fully Loaded, Steve Austin v. Dude Love, (either) The Rock v. Ken Shamrock from King of the Ring, H.B.K. v. Taker from Royal Rumble, Curt Hennig v. Bret Hart from Uncensored, Randy Savage v. Sting from Spring Stampede, Chris Jericho v. Rey Mysterio from Bash at the Beach, Halloween Havoc, (the p.p.v.) Bret Hart v. D.D.P. from World War 3.

 

[X]

1. Wrestlemania XIV: W.W.F. Championship: Shawn Michaels v. Steve Austin: Shawn Michaels, with a broken back, out performed Mick Foley's bumpfest from KOTR. Steve Austin, quite possibly his best technical match to date, was this match against Shawn Michaels. You can't have a Wrestlemania match with H.B.K. and call it anything less than great. (short of it being against Mr. McMahon) This was the coming of age match for Steve Austin, the passing of the torch, and it was at the time what many people felt was Shawn's last match.

C'mon Will, this match was A) No more technically sound then the HIAC match, and B) Of little major impact. The only reason this match is remembered and regarded so highly is because it was Austin's first title win, but Austin was already clearly the Number One man in the company, and had been since mid 1997. I see why this is an important match, but more important than Foley falling off the cell? No. This match here didn't make anyone's career as the HIAC did with Foley.

2. Triple H. v. The Rock: *(any match) It doesn't matter if you take their time limit draw from Fully Loaded, their Ladder match from Summerslam, or their KOTR qualifying match from Raw, not to mention any others I've missed. Triple H. v. The Rock, in 1998 was the underrated feud of the year. And any one of their matches out performs the HIAC match from KOTR.

Couldn't agree more about the greatness of Triple H vs. Rock in 1998. My personal favorite was the Fully Loaded 2 out of 3 falls match, an absolute classic that gets overlooked far too often for their Summerslam encounter a month later.

But none of those matches had even 1/10th of the impact or effect on wrestling as the HIAC did. No other match can EVER rival the effect that the second HIAC match had, it set the bar for bumps in wrestling and overnight turned the business from the long, mat-wrestling fixated feuds that dominated the WWE in 1996 & 1997 into the short, bump-filled, shocker moments that comprised the Attitude era.

Again, while those matches are certainly superior to the HIAC match in terms of a technical match-up, PWI does not award MOTY to the best technical match, but rather the most important match.

3. Summerslam: W.W.F. Championship: Steve Austin v. The Undertaker: So you want an Undertaker match? Why not pick the best one hes ever had against Steve Austin, from Summerslam of 98. At one point in this match, Taker does something hes rarely if ever done before.. leg dropped from the top rope, to Steve Austin, through the announce table! You want a bump, there you go.

Again, another great match. But it had no impact. It was just another PPV main event. While being an extremely entertaining brawl, this match did nothing to match the impact and effect of the HIAC. Great match, yep, more important then Foley falling off the cell? Not even remotely close.

4. Souled Out: Ric Flair v. Bret Hart: Bret Hart's first p.p.v. match for W.C.W., and it was a technical gem of a beauty. Hart and Flair from Souled Out is vastly underrated and forgotten about, and I have no clue why. These two stole that show, and if you get the chance to watch it. It might not have fan popping bumps all over the place, but its definately a mat classic for true wrestling fans.

Did you just call this match a technical gem? C'mon Will, we're talking about a match involving RIC FLAIR in 1998. The man was already jello by then and any in-ring talent he had was absolutely gone by 96. A solid match, but nothing that great. Doesn't come close again to the impact of Foley flying off the cell.

5. Uncensored: U.S. Championship: D.D.P. v. Chris Benoit v. Raven: This rivalry, between the three of them was quite possibly my favorite rivalry of all time. I wasn't a huge D.D.P. fan, but I was very big on Benoit and huge on Raven. This was an E.C.W. meets W.C.W. hardcore match, at its finest. Inwhich D.D.P. finds himself becoming part of the Uncensored lightening sign. And the finish saw Raven take a wicked Diamond Cutter from the top rope, through a botched table spot. Definately better than HIAC.

Another great match, but yet again another match with zero impact on the business, versus the unparalleled impact of Foley off the cell. Again, not even close.

pqyite[6. Best of Seven: Chris Benoit v. Booker T.: (all 8 of them) Much like the W.W.F.'s version of H.H.H. v. Rock, W.C.W. didn't disappoint with Benoit v. Booker T. You could take any one of their Best of matches, or their Spring Stampede match, and it would top the KOTR HIAC match in an instant. When I'm asked what match/feud I love, the Benoit/Booker T. classics come to mind almost instantly.[/quote]

I know I'm just repeating myself here, but it's true. Great matches, little to no impact on the business, nowhere in the league of the HIAC.

7. Nitro: World Championship: Goldberg v. Hulk Hogan: Wasn't the most technical of matches, or the greatest. But if you want a changing of the guard, and one of the largest pops (against Hogan) you'll ever hear.. it was when Bill Goldberg took the World Championship off him, in Atlanta, on Nitro.

8. Halloween Havoc: U.S. Championship: Bret Hart v. Sting: The entire Halloween Havoc p.p.v. to me is one of the great Pay Per Views I've ever witnessed. But the one match that sticks out to me, as great.. Bret Hart v. Sting. The match that thousands of fans wanted to see for the longest time, and with exception of the ending, the match didn't disappoint. (least of all, me)

9. E.C.W. T.V. Championship: Taz v. Bam Bam Bigelow: I can't remember which Pay Per View it was, but one of the most talked about moments in E.C.W. history was when Bigelow sent Taz through the rampway. They had two classics, at Living Dangerously and Heat Wave. Take your pick, as dispite his size. Bam Bam Bigelow was and will forever be one of the best big man workers of our lifetime.

Now then, the list of matches I won't go into detail about, yet deserve to be mentioned are as follows.. All of which could out-shine the HIAC match, in which it was nothing more than a bump off the Cell, through the Cell, then onto tacks.

Note-Worthy Mentions: D Lo Brown v. X-Pac from Fully Loaded, Steve Austin v. Dude Love, (either) The Rock v. Ken Shamrock from King of the Ring, H.B.K. v. Taker from Royal Rumble, Curt Hennig v. Bret Hart from Uncensored, Randy Savage v. Sting from Spring Stampede, Chris Jericho v. Rey Mysterio from Bash at the Beach, Halloween Havoc, (the p.p.v.) Bret Hart v. D.D.P. from World War 3.

I decided to just throw the rest of those matches together, because I've said the same thing to all of them.

Were they all good matches? Yeah, most of the ones you listed. Did any one of them match the impact of Foley flying off the cell? Not even close, not one of 'em.

I'll say it again: The HIAC match in 1998 was the single most important match in the WWF that year, if not the entire decade. Wrestling was changed FOREVER after this match. Not too many matches can lay claim to that, and certainly no others from 1998.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

X, another fantastic post in response to a great statement by Will. You both make so many great points, it's hard to refute.

I will disagree with XFear on one thing, though. The Hulk Hogan vs Goldberg match was very influential. It signaled Goldberg as THE new go-to guy in WCW, a force in pro wrestling, and showed a true chink in the armor of the seemingly impenatrable nWo. Luger's win over Hogan had been short lived, but Goldberg's win was dominant. The crowd was ultra-hot for that moment, with Goldberg holding Hogan in Jackhammer position. It also signified Hogan's willingness to put over the young gun in the business.

Was Hogan / Goldberg AS big as the Foley bump? I don't know. Maybe not. But we cannot file Hogan/Goldberg with the likes of DDP/Benoit/Raven - a truly great but meaningless match.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

C'mon Will, this match was A) No more technically sound then the HIAC match, and B) Of little major impact. The only reason this match is remembered and regarded so highly is because it was Austin's first title win, but Austin was already clearly the Number One man in the company, and had been since mid 1997. I see why this is an important match, but more important than Foley falling off the cell? No. This match here didn't make anyone's career as the HIAC did with Foley.

X, come on. You just boldly stated that a bump off and through a gimmick match was more impactful to the wrestling world, than a 'passing of the torch.' While I agree with you that Steve Austin had already been the top guy since mid 1997, the fact is his first Championship reign and coming of age into the main event guy holding the title is far superior to a guy taking bigger staged bumps.

But none of those matches had even 1/10th of the impact or effect on wrestling as the HIAC did. No other match can EVER rival the effect that the second HIAC match had, it set the bar for bumps in wrestling and overnight turned the business from the long, mat-wrestling fixated feuds that dominated the WWE in 1996 & 1997 into the short, bump-filled, shocker moments that comprised the Attitude era.

I agree that in terms of more impactful, the Mick Foley/Taker HIAC match was more long-term and meaningful than the Rock/H.H.H. feud. So I'll give you that. However once again, this feud was something that should be viewed as impactful because it was between the two Superstars who would later become the cornerstones of the industry, while guys like Foley, a year later, were still trying to relive the glory days of falling through HIACs.. but one of the two involved in this feud.

Again, another great match. But it had no impact. It was just another PPV main event. While being an extremely entertaining brawl, this match did nothing to match the impact and effect of the HIAC. Great match, yep, more important then Foley falling off the cell? Not even remotely close.

This I'll disagree with, and this is why. Steve Austin v. Undertaker at Summerslam might not seem like much on the outside looking in, but when you look at it, this was Austin's first true test as a Heavyweight Champion. Sure, he defeated Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania.. but after that, it was Dude Love (twice) Kane (after losing to him) and a tag match. This was impactful in the sense that it helped re-establish Steve Austin as a guy who can take on the biggest of challenges and overcome them. Taker = solid Main Eventer in the business, and people questioned if he would've taken the Championship then. Which is why it was a statement and impactful.

Did you just call this match a technical gem? C'mon Will, we're talking about a match involving RIC FLAIR in 1998. The man was already jello by then and any in-ring talent he had was absolutely gone by 96. A solid match, but nothing that great. Doesn't come close again to the impact of Foley flying off the cell.

Once again, I agree and disagree. I agree that Ric Flair was no "spring chicken" in this match and it wasn't purely perfect. However it was impactful for W.C.W.

It was Bret Hart's first W.C.W. match and the beginning of a new era in W.C.W., as it related to the Hitman being on their side instead of opposite them. HIAC might of made Foley, but Bret Hart brought new life in W.C.W. and two major bumps and a tack drop shouldn't overshadow the importance of his debut in the company.

I know I'm just repeating myself here, but it's true. Great matches, little to no impact on the business, nowhere in the league of the HIAC.

The only thing (for me) that the Chris Benoit/Booker T. rivalry and series of matches did, was the same thing the Rock/H.H.H. series did. They built two midcard wrestlers into Main Event players.

I'll give you the point that at the time, just like the H.H.H./Rock situation.. the Foley/Taker match had more impact at that time.

I decided to just throw the rest of those matches together, because I've said the same thing to all of them.

Were they all good matches? Yeah, most of the ones you listed. Did any one of them match the impact of Foley flying off the cell? Not even close, not one of 'em.

On this note, as much as I'm NOT a Hulk Hogan fan.. I have to agree with Irish, and you should be checked regarding your ideas of comparing.

Goldberg was horrible to me, and Hogan was even worse. But make no mistake, they were the two biggest things that happened to W.C.W. (not including the n.W.o.) And for you to say two bumps and a tack spot was better and more impactful then Goldberg/Hogan.. no, no, no.. thats just outlandish.

Like Irish said, when Hogan dropped the Championship to Lex Luger, it was for 5-6 days. When Hogan lost to Sting at Superbrawl, it even had its controversy. But when Goldberg defeated Hulk Hogan, there was NO controversy, and Goldberg steam-rolled Hollywood and replaced him atop the mountain in W.C.W. It was THIS MATCH that made Goldberg truly great in that company, and not just some guy with an undefeated streak over 70% of no-names.