Main Event Right of Passage

[kylexxx]

It might just be me but it just seems like to be considered in the upper echleon of WWE main eventers you need to be associated in some way, usually physically or verbally going over, the Mcmahons. You have The Rock, Austin, Mick Foley, HHH, Kurt Angle, Kane and Taker, Jericho, HBK, Big Show and now Orton. I think even Cena had a mini run with Stephanie on Smackdown.
It just seems that one good storyline with the McMahon family is all it takes to shoot a star in superstardom.
This angle with Orton has so many viable twists and turns available to it, that as already mentioned will make Orton and Legacy into the shoulders for the weight on the company.
Do you think a rub off a Macmahon is needed with all superstars that are to be pushed to the moon or they should stay away?

 

[klunderbunker]

It would make sense. The McMahons are the one true constant in the company. Some form of them have been around since anyone can remember as Vince is seen in footage before Wrestlemania 1. The people know that they're the real bosses at the end of the day and therefore there's an aspect or realism to the angles. It's something you can't get from any other character. Putting someone with one of them is an instant huge rub as it makes people think they could be the next Austin. After Vince screwed over Bret he was suddenly real. He feuded with Austin and since then he's the best heel on the roster or he can be the true savior as his word is the final law. It makes sense that people would get over when interacting with them.

 

[kylexxx]

What I am getting at is what is going to happen when vince retires? Are Shane and Steph going to be more active in storylines, who will be there to give that final rub?
I think HHH might end up playing the role of Vince but if not, what then?

 

[midnightrider09]

As stale as the McMahons get sometime with the Super-Shane punches and the Stephanie dirty looks, and yoooooouuuuurrrrrrrr fiiiirrrrreeeeeeddddddd. I think wrestlers today need to deal with them in order to make it. Do to the fact that wrestling has changed so much since I was a kid. Back in the day if a wrestler wanted to get over he had 2 get made by a top guy or be veeeeerrrrryyyyyy charasmatic. Seeing how now a wrestler can be main event on Sunday and injured on tuesday and taken off of TV for 9months alot of wrestlers do not get a chance to work with that established wrestler. Undertaker is to much of a Phenom and a legend to build every new prospect main eventer, And Triple H and Shawn michaels "won't" do it unless they can get something out of it I.E. Jeff Hardy. John Cena is either injured for 6 months or spending 6 months making a movies that suck worse than they blow. So the only people left with history that connects through all three eras of the WWE with instant recognition is the Mcmahons.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Edge is one of the few superstars since the late 1990's to CONSISTENTLY get over without the aforementioned McMahon rubs. Now while that may say a lot about the McMahons, you also have to think that's a bit of an issue that the writers can't get many wrestlers over with the fans without using the McMahon family in some sort of creative capacity. From the moment McMahon kicked at Steve Austin during the Mike Tyson announcement, the characters themselves have been the most identifiable in the industry, and because they are backed by so much realism, they are easily adapted by fans.

Even Chris Jericho's first major heat came because he first verbally attacked Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley, and then aligned with her after winning the undisputed title.

Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit also managed to get over without "the rub," but there's no comparing with Austin, Rock, Foley, Orton, Flair, HBK, Hogan, etc.

 

[travistragic]

I think the answer is simpler than you guys are making this. The McMahons are the main event. If you are going to the top, you don't have the option as to getting involved with the McMahons or not, because they've already put themselves at the top. Edge and Guerrero got to the top without due to the simple fact that the McMahon's don't bother to show up on SmackDown where they made their most significant marks in wrestling.

And IC25, I hope you aren't suggesting that Eddie Guerrero didn't get over as well as those other guys got over (with or without a "rub") and that I'm simply reading that last statement of yours wrong.

 

[jmudbake]

Edge might not be the exception to the rule. Think about it. Sure, he was already in the main event before this thing with Vickie, but SHE is suppose to be the GM. The authority. Not unlike the McMahons. And since about 2004, the McMahons have almost completely stayed off of Smackdown! so with him being on Smackdown! he "hooked up" with the authority, not unlike Triple H. He stays in the main event because she allows him to. Its sad his character seems to overshadow his ability, because anymore it seems he can't get the job done without someones help.

 

[Harthan]

It's probably because the McMahons are simply the best at putting people over. Look at them - they're never afraid to look weak, to get their asses whipped, and they range from solid (Shane & Steph) to brilliant (Vince) on the mic. Shane and Vince are also decent wrestlers when called upon it, and can put over guys in the ring. Clearly, Vince is the master at this, having helped propel the Rock into the main event (the Corporation) and of course, Austin with the feud that made Austin. Whether Vince feuds with someone or allies with someone, if he puts his heart into it, and the natural spark of talent is there, he can make a guy main event. Shane & Steph are great at putting guys over as well, and working with them - just look at Orton right now.

So yes, most main event guys have passed through the McMahons because they're just good at making them stars. All of them can put a guy over, and Vince is superb on the mic and when he feuds with talented opponents and talented allies, he makes them into gold.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I think the answer is simpler than you guys are making this. The McMahons are the main event. If you are going to the top, you don't have the option as to getting involved with the McMahons or not, because they've already put themselves at the top. Edge and Guerrero got to the top without due to the simple fact that the McMahon's don't bother to show up on SmackDown where they made their most significant marks in wrestling.

And IC25, I hope you aren't suggesting that Eddie Guerrero didn't get over as well as those other guys got over (with or without a "rub") and that I'm simply reading that last statement of yours wrong.

My point is that Guerrero got over without the McMahon rub, but he did not get over at the level Rock, Austin, Michaels, Hogan, etc. did who DID have the McMahon rub.

The top 6 or so stars of all time have all had a rub with the McMahon's at some point, which goes to prove the point of the thread. Guerrero was over, and was a good champion, but he was no where close to the 4 I listed above.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Can I get a Hulk Hogan??? Macho Drink Savage?? Ultimate Warrior?? Bret Hart?? HBK?? Before Austin, this Mcmahon rub stuff wasnt even really in existance, so I surely hope this threa dis reffering to the modern era. The vast majority of the legends we know today had little to no, if not zero contact with the mcmahons, storyline of course. Its amazing how the newer generations act as if History never took place. Some of the best, brightest, and most poular superstars of ALL TIME had zero contact, so of course, obviously, it can be done, and was done exceedingly well for years and years.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

I don't think its necessarily the fact that they're involved with the McMahons that gets them over, but rather, the fact that the writers actually give the wrestler a storyline and a push that they FOCUS on.

Think about it. Right now, the main story on Raw is with Orton, correct? How much focus is it getting? Constant. Its not just Orton coming out and squashing someone for 40 seconds and the announcers saying "watch out for this guy". Its giving the fans something to play off - something to pay attention to and follow the progression.

Now, what are some of the other storylines that helped get people over recently? There was Jericho/Michaels (didn't include the McMahons) and Edge/Taker (didn't include the McMahons). These helped Jericho and Edge greatly and its because they were actually building a feud that had a purpose to it other than "these two are in a feud, so, pay attention".

Now look at the unsuccessful feuds that have happened. Kane and Mysterio went all over the place, had no clear direction, had the same match over and over again (Mysterio dominates Kane by kicking him in the shin 1000x and then does a splash and beats him), and there were weeks where we wouldn't get ANYTHING for the feud. Literally, nothing at all. Then there were a few weeks where the only thing that had to do with the feud was Kane + Mark Henry versus Mysterio + Partner, again having the exact same match repetitively. R-Truth and Kendrick are in a feud right now, I guess, and if they didn't wrestle each other or no mention of it occurred tomorrow night on Smackdown, would anybody notice? Nope.

The WWE has a tendency to want to push one person at a time, throw all their focus on that, and then the writers scramble at the last second to throw a couple of other people into mini-feuds that consist essentially of Person A beating Person B one week, the opposite happening the next week, and then a third rubber match. If the feuds that have no focus aren't of that formula, then its simply "heel attacks face, face has a match with the heel but loses (or wins and is attacked), they have another rematch and the face either loses or wins and is attacked..." So when they actually have a storyline that they want to use where they really want someone to get over in a big way, they actually take more than 20 seconds to think about it and they pay more attention to it, and that focus leads to a more interesting product, which leads to the audience being more entertained, which leads to them associating entertainment with that performer, thus resulting in them booing or cheering him according to his status.

The McMahon connection isn't simply "McMahon + Superstar = Superstar gets over", its "McMahon + Superstar ----> Creative pays attention and puts actual work into it = Superstar gets over".

Unless of course, its such a god awful idea or so poorly executed that it couldn't possibly work for anybody. Cough*illegitimate child*cough.

 

[RBH]

That is in fact how they officially got Lashley over...they put him in a program with McMahon and let it happen. I always question why they never had a pay-per-view match between Cena and Vince. That would have been the best because it would have given people the ultimate reason to cheer Cena and he would have never been half booed in the first place. There are still a few superstars who I want to see feud with a McMahon or allign themselves with one. Batista is one that comes to mind. Imagine him feuding with the entire McMahon family. That would totally vault Batista to the top of the business. I hope the McMahons end up fueding with Cena after this mini-feud with Orton is over.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I disagree that a McMahon is needed. I mean, Randy Orton has always been over to a degree. He's only just evolving into a more crazy-like character, thanks to using the McMahon's in doing so.

The thing is, for this storyline anyways, you need to be capable of showing how deadly you can be with putting someone "on the shelve" without that individual needing to be on the program, yet also being a high profile name. Mr. McMahon, Shane & Stephanie are all high profile names, but none of them need to constantly be on the show for the program to run. Unlike the likes of a Cena, Triple H., Edge, Taker, etc, etc.

As far as needing a McMahon to constantly get over, I don't believe that either. Infact, if someone can't get over unless they ride the coat-tails of a McMahon, that's honestly pretty pathetic. Triple H. was over before using the McMahon's. He just evolved by marrying (storyline & real) Stephanie, and running a program regarding that. He was always over before that point, he just became a bit more deadly.

Big Show would've always been over without being brought in specifically by a McMahon, due to his height. Austin would've always been over, regardless of the McMahon feud, because strictly his attitude wasn't centered around McMahon, so much as "authority" in general. The Rock got over with how he worked with the crowd, long before a McMahon ever got near him. See my point?

If the future of this industry, guys like Punk, Kingston, M.V.P., Kennedy, Morrison.. if they need a McMahon to truly become a Main Event type player, then they shouldn't be in the Main Event to begin with.

 

[Tastycles]

I think I disagree with the theme of this argument entirely. The majority of the superstars mentioned were those who where main eventers in 1998-99. The fact tat McMahon had the big stable and the overarching storyline was that he was in complete control of the company, there was no way you could possibly be on WWF programming and not have something to do with a McMahon.

Even so, it is still quite tenuous. The Undertaker was a main eventer for 7 or 8 years before the Corporate Ministry storyline, and I don't think it will go down as something that defines him. The Rock had programmes with McMahon, but to suggest he wouldn't have been as over otherwise is wrong.

You can then look to the past and see that every single main eventer before 1997 got there by means outside of feuding with/ alongside anyone in the McMahon family. Even now, Orton was already a top heel in the company before this storyline, and the list of superstars who reached the top of the bill without a significant McMahon storyline is long: The Hardys, Edge, Cena, JBL, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Batista... When you couple that with the fact that The Undertaker, Kane and Shawn Michaels were estblished main eventers before their Mcmahon programmes, the premise looks very weak indeed.