Lets go CENA!/CENA SUX!

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No, by being corny and cheesey and the all american good guy he is BOTH working the people who cheer and the people who boo him. he does this on purpose. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying so I'll spell it out.

JOHN CENA ACTING LIKE AN ALL AMERICAN BABYFACE IS A HEEL ACT WITH THE PEOPLE WHO BOO HIM.

Don't think that "acting like a heel" means cheating. That's stupid and dumbed down. Cena knows that the side that boos him knows it's a work. He also knows that they know he can wrestle (vs angle and other matches early) and that he can be ruthless and crude on the mic (again, early on before Benoit screwed everyone over). So he acts extra corny, extra "good" and gets MORE cheers from the kids and MORE boos from you guys.

do you get it now? stop thinking you're too smart for Cena and Vince to work you. Don't think "WELL HEZ NOT CHEATUN AND I'M GIVING HIM TEH BOOZ, HE'S DON A BAD JOB" because the FACT is that he wants you to boo. He wants you to boo because you'll boo any muscular all american babyface. You booing just makes the kids cheer louder and makes the show more entertaining to watch.

And how the fuck is ONS, a crowd FULL of up their own asses smarks who cheer a pothead fuckup who doesn't know the meaning of match coherency or selling spot monkey like RVD an example of anything?

 

[RockAndRoll]

I completely disagree. I can’t stand SuperCena...not even one bit. This isn’t about the man outside of the ring; this is about the character he plays on TV. That’s right...first and foremost this is a TV show like any other where there are some characters you like and some you don’t and I simply DO NOT like the SuperCena character.

I can understand that, but the poster was asking about all the hate and how it felt. I was simply stating that I didn't believe the hate was legit toward the man himself outside of the show. Nobody has a good reason to do that. I understand some people don't like the character he portrays.

When you say he is one of the greatest who exactly are you comparing him to?

In ring ability...nope...he doesn’t begin to compare to a Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Randy Savage or a Ricky Steamboat just to name a few.

Muscle/Size...nope...he doesn’t compare to a Kevin Nash, Brock Lesnar, Scott Steiner or a Batista, again just to name a few

So who exactly are these greats that you are comparing him to? If the WWE wasn’t such a watered down version of what it used to be Cena would be a jobber or mid carder at best.

These guys plus guys like Austin, Rock, Hogan, Flair, Triple H, etc... I'm not saying he's as good, just making the point that he has skill comparable. All of these guys could arguably be greats but the best ones didn't master just one of the categories you mention, they had a bit of all of it. My point was that Cena can be ranked with them, and someday WILL be. He's not the best wrestler, mic guy, muscle man, or what ever else.. but he's pretty solid in all of the major categories a star would need. Not because I'm saying it, but because Vince saw it and pushed him there. The fans see it and react to him. His peers see it, and speak on their respect of him. I'm sorry, we'll never know how Cena would have faired in the Attitude era or whenever it was that you're considering the WWE not "watered down," but I think to count out his work ethic to put him at a top player is a mistake.

When you say he won all his arguments what were you basing that comment on? The Rock was routinely getting monstrous pops from the crowds throughout every promo while Cena was getting booed like crazy...to show how bad it got if you go back and watch the Wrestlemania Press Conference, Cena paused a few times because the boos got so bad he was unable to hear himself speak. That’s not what should happen to the Top Face of your company just because a Legend comes back to host a show...not even wrestle...all he had to do was be in the building and all of Cena’s fan base turned in seconds...

If you wanna say that all Rock did was repeat catchphrases then fine, but in reality those catchphrases killed Cena...

Fair enough, but this part is just a matter of opinion. I happen to disagree, but I know people who would get behind what you said and people who would also disagree. To answer your question though, I felt that attacking things like The Rock appearing in The Tooth Fairy wasn't a contradiction on Cena's part. That's more toward The Rock, in that if you're gonna attack someone for being kid-friendly, you should take a look at your own career. And yeah, maybe I can see the whole 4th wall breaking down thing, but all of that's fair game if you're the Rock, and you come back acknowledging you left for Hollywood, and that you're Dwayne Johnson outside of the ring. He even made that exact statement. So, again.. your complaint aimed at Cena actually belongs to The Rock. The catchphrases did kill Cena... the first three or four times. I'm just saying The Rock added nothing new. And Cena defended his point well. No points were being awarded though, so it's just a matter of opinion.

Say what you want about 5 moves of doom...it doesn’t matter if Hogan, Rock, Austin or anyone else did that...we’re not talking about them so it’s irrelevant. Just because one wrestler gets away with something doesn’t mean every wrestler can. If it got to a point where every wrestler only used 5 moves then the business would be out of business.

It's not irrelevant in that I was commenting on the fact that the poster had mentioned that it seemed like people hated Cena for only using 5 moves. The point I was making is that it doesn't matter if that's what he does. He's not the first, nor the last. Not saying it's right or wrong, and I'm not saying whose 5 moves were better. Just saying it's been a pretty standard formula.

Could’ve fooled me with your post defending everything about him....

Heh. Maybe I'm in denial of my Cena fandom. But in reality, I just think that people are negative toward him without acknowledging the positives. Somebody's gotta play Devil's advocate.

I don’t deny his work ethic or who he is as a person. My gripe as a fan is that he is over-promoted and I don’t like his gimmick. I see a lot of people on the boards that just say oh yeah he sucks and blah blah blah without any sort of logical reason. This is the reason for my long winded reply. We all as fans have personal preferences and like certain guys while disliking others. The current product that the WWE puts out week after week is watered down in my opinion with a lot of guys that I think would’ve been jobbers on Superstars of Wrestling back in the day. Either there is nothing really special about them or they are currently being booked improperly...either way there is no one on the current roster that I look at and say wow....



Why would being a heel mean less T-shirt sales...Is that to say that the now, The Rock, Randy Orton, Macho Man and a list of others suffered from poor merchandising sales because they were heels....cuz unless you have sales figures I would be highly inclined to disagree.

To sum up this painfully long diatribe...for me to get behind a guy like John Cena he needs to change himself up...plenty of guys have completely repackaged themselves and become phenomenal successes...Stone Cold was the ringmaster...The Rock was Rocky Maivia...Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were tag team guys and HHH was once a French aristocrat...its not like he can’t become someone I’m interested in...just gotta lose this rap crap look and jean shorts as well as the Superman tag and maybe I could see myself supporting him...but the current portrayal onscreen is just not something I’m into at all...

I think the lesser t-shirt sells was simply something I based on articles I've read at Wrestlezone.com. I don't have sales figures. It's just been reported, and seems to make sense that kiddies having a Face John Cena to look up to means more hats, t-shirts, arm bands, etc...

Lot's of guys get repackaged, things get stale. Those guys you just mentioned were repackaged more than just the times you mentioned. Stone Cold had a looney phase, the Rock had a Hollywood "better than you" phase, Bret went tag, then singles Face, to an America hating Canadian. Eh, it's all part of the game.

My point was never that Cena SHOULDN'T be repackaged. Just simply that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to WWE. His career path hasn't strayed far from other stars... Well.. except maybe that they're sticking his gimmick out for whatever reason. Which I guess, sucks. Or makes it unique and special. I don't really know. Only time will tell.

But if I did learn anything today it's that you do seem to hate Cena's clothes and style. Hey, it's not my look either. We can agree the Rock nailed the "Fruity Pebbles" comment.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

When you say he is one of the greatest who exactly are you comparing him to?

In ring ability...nope...he doesn’t begin to compare to a Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Randy Savage or a Ricky Steamboat just to name a few.

Muscle/Size...nope...he doesn’t compare to a Kevin Nash, Brock Lesnar, Scott Steiner or a Batista, again just to name a few

So who exactly are these greats that you are comparing him to? If the WWE wasn’t such a watered down version of what it used to be Cena would be a jobber or mid carder at best.

One of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read. "IN RING ABILITY=MOOOOOVEZ AND TEH TEKNICALZ!!!!"

how about this, storytelling in the ring, he compares on par with EVERYONE you mentioned. this isn't just my opinion, but the opinion of most people who get paid to either wrestle, or write about wrestling. You are a tool and you have been worked.

To sum up this painfully long diatribe...for me to get behind a guy like John Cena he needs to change himself up...plenty of guys have completely repackaged themselves and become phenomenal successes...Stone Cold was the ringmaster...The Rock was Rocky Maivia...Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were tag team guys and HHH was once a French aristocrat...its not like he can’t become someone I’m interested in...just gotta lose this rap crap look and jean shorts as well as the Superman tag and maybe I could see myself supporting him...but the current portrayal onscreen is just not something I’m into at all...

YOU don't matter. He's OVER like fucking crazy. He gets 70% massive cheers, 30% boos, and the boos he WANTS and works to get. Yea, those other guys were repackaged. However, they went from not over to massively fucking over. Not massively fucking over to....whatever dumbass would repackage a guy who is massively fucking over is just that, a dumbass and has never had a job in pro wrestling so I don't have an example of what happens when you repackage your biggest draw because a few ****** smarks want it to be cool to cheer a guy they secretly respect.

Say what you want about 5 moves of doom...it doesn’t matter if Hogan, Rock, Austin or anyone else did that...we’re not talking about them so it’s irrelevant. Just because one wrestler gets away with something doesn’t mean every wrestler can. If it got to a point where every wrestler only used 5 moves then the business would be out of business.

MOVEZ!!!! MOVEZ!!!! FAP FAP FAP I LOVE MOVEZ!!!!!

Moves don't matter. If every wrestler only used 5 moves, but told incredible stories in the ring (like hart, Cena, race, Austin, Hogan, Rock, etc) then the business would very much be in business.

I completely disagree. I can’t stand SuperCena...not even one bit. This isn’t about the man outside of the ring; this is about the character he plays on TV. That’s right...first and foremost this is a TV show like any other where there are some characters you like and some you don’t and I simply DO NOT like the SuperCena character.

because he doesn't want you to. He WANTS you to boo him. he WORKS YOU. yes, you, the "smart" mark, he WORKS YOU. He is a "real" character because in real life nobody is universally liked or hated, and that's a boring character. He gets a mixed reaction but everyone is totally one way or another.

I guarantee you that if Cena was cussing and rapping on guys and being ruthless in the ring like it's 2003 Cena, you'd be cheering him. It'd be "cool" to cheer him even if he was a heel. However, you and most of the IWC will boo ANY muscular all american babyface. It just so happens, that's kinda who Cena is. You don't like the character, guess what, kids don't like the Miz character, it's called a heel.

No, it's not a heel in the traditional cheating sense. It's a heel in the sense that you don't like what the character does, John Cena knows you don't like what the character does, and he milks it out of you by doing it more. This is obvious to a lot of people and it's laughable when dellusional people like you think you're too sophisticated to be worked to feel a certain way about a character.

If Cena was truly disliked for being boring or corny or whatever the fuck the flavor of the month excuse is, then they wouldn't boo him, they'd go to the bathroom. His segments wouldn't get big ratings, you'd change the channel. The fact that you watch and make noise proves that he's working you. Just like kids booing Miz proves that he's working them.

When you say he won all his arguments what were you basing that comment on? The Rock was routinely getting monstrous pops from the crowds throughout every promo while Cena was getting booed like crazy...to show how bad it got if you go back and watch the Wrestlemania Press Conference, Cena paused a few times because the boos got so bad he was unable to hear himself speak. That’s not what should happen to the Top Face of your company just because a Legend comes back to host a show...not even wrestle...all he had to do was be in the building and all of Cena’s fan base turned in seconds...

If you wanna say that all Rock did was repeat catchphrases then fine, but in reality those catchphrases killed Cena...

the mania press conference? I'm guessing there weren't a lot of kids there, it was probably mostly adults (Rock fans) so yea, that makes about as much sense as using ONS to say "SEE CENA IS TEH SUX". During their promos the kids were still cheering, the adults were just marking like little girls so they were much louder. In their promos against each other, Cena won every time. They basically looked like this

Cena: "Rock, I respect you, but you hate on me even though you're never here, you say you love this business but you're never here"
Rock: "shut up fruity pebbles lol who in the blue hell smells what the millions are cookin?"
Cena: "......you didn't really respond to anthing?"
Rock: "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAY, they'll sing a long with the rock no matter how many times the rock says the rocks catchphrases or how annoying the rock talking in third person gets the rock the rock the rock"
Cena: "what you're saying has no substance"
Rock: "the rock will say this, the rock LOVES this business"
Cena: "you're talking to us via satellite"
Rock: "the millions......and millions of the rocks fans have satellite TV"
Cena: "again you're not really saying anything"


Maybe because you have a massive hard on for the Rock you didn't catch that, but that's how those promos really looked. Cena called rock out on everything and Rock didn't say shit other than his silly metaphors and his catchphrases.

 

[hollowpoint]

No, by being corny and cheesey and the all american good guy he is BOTH working the people who cheer and the people who boo him. he does this on purpose. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying so I'll spell it out.

JOHN CENA ACTING LIKE AN ALL AMERICAN BABYFACE IS A HEEL ACT WITH THE PEOPLE WHO BOO HIM.

Don't think that "acting like a heel" means cheating. That's stupid and dumbed down. Cena knows that the side that boos him knows it's a work. He also knows that they know he can wrestle (vs angle and other matches early) and that he can be ruthless and crude on the mic (again, early on before Benoit screwed everyone over). So he acts extra corny, extra "good" and gets MORE cheers from the kids and MORE boos from you guys.

do you get it now? stop thinking you're too smart for Cena and Vince to work you. Don't think "WELL HEZ NOT CHEATUN AND I'M GIVING HIM TEH BOOZ, HE'S DON A BAD JOB" because the FACT is that he wants you to boo. He wants you to boo because you'll boo any muscular all american babyface. You booing just makes the kids cheer louder and makes the show more entertaining to watch.

And how the fuck is ONS, a crowd FULL of up their own asses smarks who cheer a pothead fuckup who doesn't know the meaning of match coherency or selling spot monkey like RVD an example of anything?

Oh I get it now! YOU are the resident expert when it comes to the RASSLIN BINESS and everyone else should go to YOU for prior approval before posting. If you would of read the Fn post clear enough I think I said it was probably both. As in working both sides. Hence the "6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other" cliche'. (did I just quote myself?) To explain that to you in your words...IT MEAN DA SAME THANG! Do You get it now?

As far as the other part of your meaningless tirade, the only reason ONS was brought up was because it was the first time as a face that he decked the ref purposely (heel tactic).

If anyone thinks they are too smart to be worked, it's probably you because you seem to be the ONLY one who knows how everything works. Why don't you have a job with the WWE already? Posting on here is clearly beneath you...CHAMP.

 

[berlinbrawler]

What would it take for Cena to become a legitmate face again?

Ironically I think it would take a heel turn. It would bring fresh wind into a stale character and it might turn him into a cool heel so people would eventually start cheering him again, this time with less of a split reaction.

Why so much hate for a guy who doesn't change his approach?

Because he's gotten stale. He doesn't need to be the best wrestler or have new moves - God knows some of the greatest in the business got along just fine without that as well. The people aren't tired so much of his limited moveset as they are of the man himself. Criticizing his never changing moveset is just a symptom of fans lashing out at something they got bored with.

Is it wrong to for him to "never give up" or have "hustle, loyalty, and respect"?

Yes. Because it's lame.
Remember Kurt Angle when he had his three Is? Integrity, Intensity and Intelligence. That was cool, because it was designed so the fans would hate him. It was a comedic spoof of corny slogans that made wrestling heros popular in the 80s (Training, Prayers, Vitamins) but are just too flat to fly with today's fans. The fallacy with Cena is that they are pushing those values and slogans as seriously as they did in the 80s.

Would you hate him even more if he were a heel?

Ironically I probably wouldn't. I'm aching for him to turn heel.

Why does a top draw in the company get disrespected as much as he does?

If you are the face of a company, expect to be a target. It's as simple as that. As the head figure you are responsible and will always get dissected and criticized for everything you do or don't do. It comes with the job. Cena knows that. He never bitched about it.
Also, it is as the Rock said on his last night on RAW - there are plenty of aspects about John Cena that warrant respect. And I bet he does have that from most fans - even the Cena haters. But what it comes down to is that many fans simply. don't. like. him.

 

[The Universal Re-monster]

Oh I get it now! YOU are the resident expert when it comes to the RASSLIN BINESS and everyone else should go to YOU for prior approval before posting. If you would of read the Fn post clear enough I think I said it was probably both. As in working both sides. Hence the "6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other" cliche'. (did I just quote myself?) To explain that to you in your words...IT MEAN DA SAME THANG! Do You get it now?

As far as the other part of your meaningless tirade, the only reason ONS was brought up was because it was the first time as a face that he decked the ref purposely (heel tactic).

If anyone thinks they are too smart to be worked, it's probably you because you seem to be the ONLY one who knows how everything works. Why don't you have a job with the WWE already? Posting on here is clearly beneath you...CHAMP.

No, I believe he simply stated things in terms that actually make sense, which for some people is harder to process than the bullshit most like to spew. You can't get into a shouting match online son, deal with it. On the point of him generating heat, that's actually a very clever way to look at things, it really would be unique for a gimmick, and if its true I hope he doesn't change a damn thing.

 

[Italian9979]

One of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read. "IN RING ABILITY=MOOOOOVEZ AND TEH TEKNICALZ!!!!"
How about this, storytelling in the ring, he compares on par with EVERYONE you mentioned. This isn't just my opinion, but the opinion of most people who get paid to either wrestle, or write about wrestling. You are a tool and you have been worked.

I am a tool and I have been worked? What is your basis for that comment? Is is because my preference isn’t toward your mancrush? If you go back and reread my original post I actually had good things to say about Cena as a person outside of the ring. This isn’t some personal gripe with him as a human being, I simply don’t like his “gimmick” for lack of a better word.

He is a good worker and he is dedicated to his job, that I will give him respect for and again at least IMHO this isn’t about John Cena the man, this is about the character he portrays on a weekly basis that I don’t like. I have heard that he commits himself to various charities and looks for many ways to benefit the community and for that I respect him as a man. It’s his onscreen portrayal that I can’t get behind.

YOU don't matter. He's OVER like fucking crazy. He gets 70% massive cheers, 30% boos, and the boos he WANTS and works to get.

Oh he wants to get booed...no sir you are flat out wrong...when the Cena boos were getting louder and louder you could visibly see on his face it made him uncomfortable and he didn’t like it too much...This is a guy that I HAVE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED as someone that works hard at being that clean cut guy, reppin the kiddie demo and giving back to the community and then all of a sudden to be showered with boos was a shock to him...maybe he has warmed up to the idea since then but no...he did not want those boos...

His big selling point the entire time was that The Rock left and he stayed to service the fans...he compared the Rock to a father that abandons you so he was a single mom and the fans jumped all over him and booed the hell out of him for it...he was not in anyway trying to be a heel...it just turned out that way cuz the fans preferred The Rock to Cena

Yea, those other guys were repackaged. However, they went from not over to massively fucking over. Not massively fucking over to....whatever dumbass would repackage a guy who is massively fucking over is just that, a dumbass and has never had a job in pro wrestling so I don't have an example of what happens when you repackage your biggest draw because a few ****** smarks want it to be cool to cheer a guy they secretly respect.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa....whoa...! It’s not ******ed to like or dislike a particular wrestler...I gave the man respect as a person for doing his job, for being a hard worker paying his dues, for giving back to the fans he represents and being from what I heard an all around guy...BUT!

This is about how I feel about the on-screen portrayal of John Cena, which is something I don’t like and happen to find really stale and boring...that doesn’t make me a ******...I’m not a smark (Who invented this stupid terms anyway)...I am a fan and as a fan that pays to see a certain event I’m entitled to have any opinion on anyone I want...I pay for that right...now if you wanna be childish about it...it seems you are the biggest smark of all that you have to resort to poor spelling and grammar and then name calling to make yourself feel more important...

MOVEZ!!!! MOVEZ!!!! FAP FAP FAP I LOVE MOVEZ!!!!!
Moves don't matter. If every wrestler only used 5 moves, but told incredible stories in the ring (like hart, Cena, race, Austin, Hogan, Rock, etc) then the business would very much be in business.

Ok this shows you are probably 15 or something. Moves don’t matter? You are a wrestling fan and you wanna sit here and say moves don’t matter? Bret Hart, Harley Race and Steve Austin could wrestle their asses off...these men had talent in the ring that few others have. Look at other successful names...Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Curt Hennig, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle...those men had incredible in-ring ability...they could tell a story without even doing promos if they had to cuz they had the moves to back it up...Hogan and Rock were good examples of not having spectacular ring ability but the others you mentioned did...

He WANTS you to boo him. He WORKS YOU. Yes, you, the "smart" mark, he WORKS YOU. He is a "real" character because in real life nobody is universally liked or hated, and that's a boring character. He gets a mixed reaction but everyone is totally one way or another.

I think you’re the mark here...

P.S. the whole mark thing is an annoying term to me...it implies that you think what you see in the ring is real life which I pretty sure everyone on here outside of you knows it’s scripted. A mark is a fool who doesn’t know he’s been conned.

I KNOW IT’S NOT REAL!!!! Just like when I go see a Sylvester Stallone movie I know he is not really Rocky and I know Bruce Willis isn’t really a cop from NY. But that doesn’t mean I am going to like every movie they make and it doesn’t mean I won’t...It means that as a paying customer I am entitled to like and dislike what I want.

I guarantee you that if Cena was cussing and rapping on guys and being ruthless in the ring like it's 2003 Cena, you'd be cheering him. It'd be "cool" to cheer him even if he was a heel. However, you and most of the IWC will boo ANY muscular all American babyface. It just so happens, that's kinda who Cena is....No, it's not a heel in the traditional cheating sense. It's a heel in the sense that you don't like what the character does, John Cena knows you don't like what the character does, and he milks it out of you by doing it more.

OK so you know me enough to say that I like guys that come out and rap? Again if you read what I wrote that’s exactly what I don’t like. This isn’t about booing any All-American babyface. This was a thread promoting a discussion about what you do or don’t like and why. I clearly and intelligently described what I don’t like without being the casual “oh he sux” poster I see on here. I give the man the credit he deserves as a person while explaining what I don’t like about the character on TV.

So what you are saying then is that Cena wasn’t a superface for all this time and that in reality he wanted to be genuinely disliked by a majority of posters in this thread and then he purposely does it even more so as to be booed out of the building as soon as a guy who was out of the business for 7 years? Wow...I had no idea...maybe I don’t know anything

If Cena was truly disliked for being boring or corny or whatever the fuck the flavor of the month excuse is, then they wouldn't boo him, they'd go to the bathroom. His segments wouldn't get big ratings, you'd change the channel. The fact that you watch and make noise proves that he's working you. Just like kids booing Miz proves that he's working them.

So you know the ratings on each segment and know how each one does or who goes to the bathroom and all that? I am changing your name from TWJC to OZ cuz it seems you know all.

The mania press conference? I'm guessing there weren't a lot of kids there, it was probably mostly adults (Rock fans)....During their promos the kids were still cheering, the adults were just marking like little girls so they were much louder.

OK so by saying this then you are actually saying that the only fans he has are children so in your mind anyone over the age of 12 is a mark cuz they don’t like the guy...this further tells me your age...

In their promos against each other, Cena won every time. They basically looked like this
Cena: "Rock, I respect you, but you hate on me even though you're never here, you say you love this business but you're never here"
Rock: "shut up fruity pebbles lol who in the blue hell smells what the millions are cookin?"
Cena: "......you didn't really respond to anthing?"
Rock: "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAY, they'll sing a long with the rock no matter how many times the rock says the rocks catchphrases or how annoying the rock talking in third person gets the rock the rock the rock"
Cena: "what you're saying has no substance"
Rock: "the rock will say this, the rock LOVES this business"
Cena: "you're talking to us via satellite"
Rock: "the millions......and millions of the rocks fans have satellite TV"
Cena: "again you're not really saying anything"

That’s funny cuz to me they seemed like this...
Rock: Wrestling went from being the Rock and Roll Wrestling Hulkamania era...to the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin Awesome Attitude Era to...this...the you can’t see me peekaboo garbage era!
Cena: Oh yeah...well you do tons of kid friendly movies and are immensely more popular than me and even though you’ve been gone for 7 years you get more pops then I have the entire time I’ve been here so I am going to rap to all the kids about your personal life.
Rock: You’re a clown with bright colored shirts and raps to hide that fact that you absolutely suck! I accomplished everything I wanted to in the WWF and now moved on to a second career to open the doors for future talent like YOU to be able to branch out into other things so I don’t turn into Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair...
Cena: Oh yeah well I will come out and rap some more...this time its real!
Rock: I will kick your monkey ass, you called me out in a magazine like 2 years ago for no good reason other then you thought you could get some publicity now im here so whats up?
Cena: this is what I wanted...I wanted you to come back cuz the people are obviously tired of me rapping and beating everyone for the title every couple of weeks...we needed the ratings bump and worldwide media attention...but even though I insulted you for doing everything I do only much much better...im still proud of what I do...

Man my girlfriend doesn’t even watch wrestling and when we watched the go home show she said he seems like he’s kissin the Rock’s ass...yes...Cena was almost turned into a full blown heel because of just words man...Rock lit him up...I know your 12 and he’s your hero and you only see what you wanna see but the only reason they backtracked on the hate was cuz they had the Rock come out the night after Mania and say he respected him so the fans would warm back up...it was damage control on Vince’s part....rumors were flying all over the place that Vince was hectically rewriting Raw up til the cameras were rolling...

Come on man....Rock has feuded with Hall of Famers and never cut a promo talkin about respecting anyone...Austin, HHH, Undertaker, Hogan and literally a who’s who of wrestling and all of a sudden out of everyone he ever feuded with CENA is the one he respects? That was Vince tellin Rock to ease up cuz your burying my top star and when you leave I won’t have anyone as a credible face...get him some pops...do me the favor...

Maybe because you have a massive hard on for the Rock you didn't catch that, but that's how those promos really looked. Cena called rock out on everything and Rock didn't say shit other than his silly metaphors and his catchphrases.

Again...you’re a diehard Cena fan and you’re probably 12 so you don’t see the meaning between the lines...he’s your hero and it kills you people don’t like him so you resort to name calling and insults cuz you hope that will change people’s minds but it won’t...it is what it is...

 

[Italian9979]

I can understand that, but the poster was asking about all the hate and how it felt. I was simply stating that I didn't believe the hate was legit toward the man himself outside of the show. Nobody has a good reason to do that. I understand some people don't like the character he portrays.

This is how you intelligently debate a topic. You make a point, I respond and then we discuss in an adult manner...oddly refreshing to see on a forum board. I have no reason to intelligently hate a person I have never met as a human being but like any performer in any other profession I just don’t dig his onscreen portrayal.

I felt that attacking things like The Rock appearing in The Tooth Fairy wasn't a contradiction on Cena's part. That's more toward The Rock, in that if you're gonna attack someone for being kid-friendly, you should take a look at your own career. And yeah, maybe I can see the whole 4th wall breaking down thing, but all of that's fair game if you're the Rock, and you come back acknowledging you left for Hollywood, and that you're Dwayne Johnson outside of the ring. He even made that exact statement. So, again... your complaint aimed at Cena actually belongs to The Rock. The catchphrases did kill Cena... the first three or four times. I'm just saying The Rock added nothing new. And Cena defended his point well. No points were being awarded though, so it's just a matter of opinion.

Nah to me it seems kind of inconsistent for going out of your way to state you represent a segment of your fans and then slam another performer for doing the exact same thing in another medium. The tooth fairy was no cinematic gem but my kids liked it and that’s who the Rock was aiming for. When you’re going on about how ridiculous he looked in those movies you are personally attacking a guy for doing the same thing you are and in effect taking a backhanded stance towards the kids that did enjoy it. It almost comes off as petty and jealous on his part. Also at the end of the whole war of words Cena came out and basically kissed his ass saying this is what he really wanted was for the Rock to come entertain his original fan base and he should give them what they want...this is after weeks of him coming down on the Rock for leaving in the first place...that to me are big inconsistencies and what took me out of all his promos...

Rock did his usual catchphrases and played to the crowd in the same manner he always does and if you wanna say he should’ve said something new then ok...but the method of delivery and his central theme was consistent in every promo...to me it seemed Cena hopped back and forth...

My point was never that Cena SHOULDN'T be repackaged. Just simply that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to WWE. His career path hasn't strayed far from other stars... Well.. except maybe that they're sticking his gimmick out for whatever reason. Which I guess, sucks. Or makes it unique and special. I don't really know. Only time will tell.

Yeah to me the on screen is tiresome and boring lol...IMHO with the exception of Hogan I can’t recall a guy sticking to the same gimmick for so long...it seems like everyone changed themselves up in some subtle way to keep it fresh whether it be a heel/face turn or whatnot that made it different...he’s pretty much had the same gimmick for the last few years and from what I have read and seen and heard that’s a big knock on him...

We can agree the Rock nailed the "Fruity Pebbles" comment.

Lol I will leave it off like this...
http://youtu.be/bU6idBZYHbo

 

[RockAndRoll]

This is how you intelligently debate a topic. You make a point, I respond and then we discuss in an adult manner...oddly refreshing to see on a forum board.

Agreed.

Nah to me it seems kind of inconsistent for going out of your way to state you represent a segment of your fans and then slam another performer for doing the exact same thing in another medium. The tooth fairy was no cinematic gem but my kids liked it and that’s who the Rock was aiming for. When you’re going on about how ridiculous he looked in those movies you are personally attacking a guy for doing the same thing you are and in effect taking a backhanded stance towards the kids that did enjoy it. It almost comes off as petty and jealous on his part. Also at the end of the whole war of words Cena came out and basically kissed his ass saying this is what he really wanted was for the Rock to come entertain his original fan base and he should give them what they want...this is after weeks of him coming down on the Rock for leaving in the first place...that to me are big inconsistencies and what took me out of all his promos...

I see your point. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I mean to say...it's not that I disliked Rock's promo's exactly. I just thought Cena was able to hang with him. And maybe it impressed me so much because I thought he'd get buried and really didn't feel like that happened. Whatever the case, I was actually impressed and for a moment shocked that I found myself on Cena's side for a bit. I guess when you look at him being against the Rock, it made me respect him more.

Yeah to me the on screen is tiresome and boring lol...IMHO with the exception of Hogan I can’t recall a guy sticking to the same gimmick for so long...it seems like everyone changed themselves up in some subtle way to keep it fresh whether it be a heel/face turn or whatnot that made it different...he’s pretty much had the same gimmick for the last few years and from what I have read and seen and heard that’s a big knock on him...

You're right about Hogan. But even with him, they eventually turned him heel. Hell, maybe that's what they're doing with Cena. They'll wait until he gets 10 years of Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect under his belt and then have him flip it into an awesome heel gimmick. Personally, I'm with a lot of people and would go ahead and take that now. I don't know why he hasn't done it. But I have to admit that there's some part of me that is intrigued that he's staying the course through all of love/hate response he's getting.

But if I were to answer the question about how to make him a legitimate full-on Face, I'd definitely have to say there's no turning back, and the only path to that takes a trip through "heel" land.

http://youtu.be/bU6idBZYHbo[/url]

Classic.

 

[LFC till i die]

Well the reason i hate Cena is because he just doesn't appeal to me like others do. He appeals to kids and women. I'm a female but i don't like him. Reason why kids like him is because their kids. Kids are fucking stupid. Tell them anything and they'd believe it. They don't understand the wrestling business like us older fans do. Women and young teenage girls like him because they think he's fit. I have great taste in men and i can say Cena is fu*#in angin. He is too cheesy for me. Most of times he is so cheesy it's unbearable for me to watch. I'm so sick of seeing him either winning a world title or competing for a world title. Give others a chance. To me he doesn't posses great wrestling abilities (or he's not showing it). I eff-in hate his super cena gimmick. He gets his arse whooped for the whole of the match and towards the end comes up with the same shity routine (irish whipped into ropes, ducks, shoulder block, shoulder block, spin out back drop, hand in the air, u cant see mii, 5 knuckle shuffle and then the AA for the win (this is if he wins of course). He just cant sell a move, after a match he acts as if nothing happend, as if he just didn't get battered.

IMO for him to gain the respect and be over with the older fans who don't like him is if he goes back to his rapper gimmick. I think everyone liked him as a rapper and was best during this time. He is also way better on the mic during his rapper gimmick. No need to turn him heel, change his gimmick to his old rapper gimmick. But i would love to see a heel Cena. That would be bigger than when Hogan turned heel.

 

[hollowpoint]

Well the reason i hate Cena is because he just doesn't appeal to me like others do. He appeals to kids and women. I'm a female but i don't like him. Reason why kids like him is because their kids. Kids are fucking stupid. Tell them anything and they'd believe it. They don't understand the wrestling business like us older fans do. Women and young teenage girls like him because they think he's fit. I have great taste in men and i can say Cena is fu*#in angin. He is too cheesy for me. Most of times he is so cheesy it's unbearable for me to watch. I'm so sick of seeing him either winning a world title or competing for a world title. Give others a chance. To me he doesn't posses great wrestling abilities (or he's not showing it). I eff-in hate his super cena gimmick. He gets his arse whooped for the whole of the match and towards the end comes up with the same shity routine (irish whipped into ropes, ducks, shoulder block, shoulder block, spin out back drop, hand in the air, u cant see mii, 5 knuckle shuffle and then the AA for the win (this is if he wins of course). He just cant sell a move, after a match he acts as if nothing happend, as if he just didn't get battered.

IMO for him to gain the respect and be over with the older fans who don't like him is if he goes back to his rapper gimmick. I think everyone liked him as a rapper and was best during this time. He is also way better on the mic during his rapper gimmick. No need to turn him heel, change his gimmick to his old rapper gimmick. But i would love to see a heel Cena. That would be bigger than when Hogan turned heel.

So that puts you on the CENA SUX side. LOL. Anyway like a previous poster stated, you feel the way they want you to feel right now. They put alot in to making him one of the most "controversial" wrestlers in the history of the WWE and it's finally come to pass. If you've watched earlier versions of Cena, you know he can wrestle.
Kids are actually great when it comes to the WWE. They never try to figure out if something is fake or real or anything like that. They buy into whoever their favorite wrestler is and pull for them no matter what. I believe that is the basis of why this show was created in the first place; To try and separate from reality for a couple of hours and enjoy a show. We as adults are too busy trying to figure out if something was real or not and trying to decide who rightfully deserves a chance, but in the end, it's not up to us.

Your arguments are exactly what I put in my original post.
"5 moves of Doom"
"no sell of moves"
"always comes back to win no matter what"

If you want to say he is cheesy thats fine, because right now his character is cheesy. That's what the kids love. The moves argument can be made for any popular wrestler on the roster. Every one of those guys has a way to finish a match and Cena is no different. As far as him winning no matter what, he hasn't been the Champ since June of last year and since then, he's only had what 3 title shots? Like I said, if this were '05-'07 your argument would be valid, but now it's just not. He's the top draw in the company so even if he's not in the title picture he's the main event.

I do agree that he doesn't need to turn heel, but if he did, it wouldn't be bigger than Hogan's turn back in the day. We've seen Cena as a heel. Before Hogan turned, he was never a heel (at least not in the WWE). It shocked everyone.

 

[ringthebell]

What would it take for Cena to become a legitmate face again?
Cena, in most fans eyes is a legitimate face. The only problem here is, he has went into that spiral, he does come out every time to the same old tune, his pattern of matches is the same old song, is that Cena's fault? No, it's the creative teams fault for not going into something new and refreshing. He'll be back on top of his game whenever they let him, but I admit, it's starting to get a little old.

Why so much hate for a guy who doesn't change his approach?
Like I said previously, let's face it, the same old five moves of doom get old and quick, I'm not saying change his whole move set, but I would like to see them let Cena have a more aggressive approach and maybe not label him as the kids hero so much anymore.

Is it wrong to for him to "never give up" or have "hustle, loyalty, and respect"? It's not wrong for him, the wrongness goes to the creative writing team that labels him with the same spots over and over again. A few months here, he's unstoppable, a few months there, his spotlight is shattered and given to The Rock or whoever.

Would you hate him even more if he were a heel?
I wouldn't hate him, I think maybe for a while, a heel would suit Cena, I think that if they let him play a little more aggressive and a little more street savvy, brutal kind of guy, he would thrive. I mean how many people didn't like the brutality of the NWO black and white old days. Three guys that were fan favorites turned heel, turning on their own company WCW. Sensational creativity there.

Why does a top draw in the company get disrespected as much as he does? Simple, same old, same old. Kick Cena up a notch WWE, let him propel himself if whatever direction he may want to go.

 

[FSWWE]

I completely disagree. I can’t stand SuperCena...not even one bit. This isn’t about the man outside of the ring; this is about the character he plays on TV. That’s right...first and foremost this is a TV show like any other where there are some characters you like and some you don’t and I simply DO NOT like the SuperCena character.

I think it’s stale and boring. I can’t stand a grown man in jean shorts with oversized gold chains and a spinner for a World Title that used to be the Gold Standard of Professional Wrestling turned into something you would see on a car. The whole hustle, loyalty, respect thing is a joke. This is the reason he appeals to kids. You rarely see a grown man in bright colored shirts wearing oversized chains and rapping in real life outside of maybe MTV. It just looks ridiculous.


When you say he is one of the greatest who exactly are you comparing him to?

In ring ability...nope...he doesn’t begin to compare to a Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Randy Savage or a Ricky Steamboat just to name a few.

Muscle/Size...nope...he doesn’t compare to a Kevin Nash, Brock Lesnar, Scott Steiner or a Batista, again just to name a few

So who exactly are these greats that you are comparing him to? If the WWE wasn’t such a watered down version of what it used to be Cena would be a jobber or mid carder at best.



Here is what I will agree with you on. He is a good worker and he is dedicated to his job, that I will give him respect for and again at least IMHO this isn’t about John Cena the man, this is about the character he portrays on a weekly basis that I don’t like. I have heard that he commits himself to various charities and looks for many ways to benefit the community and for that I respect him as a man. It’s his onscreen portrayal that I can’t get behind.



This one is my favorite.... What bothered me about Cena's promos against The Rock was that they were contradictory in every way. It seemed like every time he talked about how proud he was to rep the kiddie demographic, he would then turn around and slam the Rock for doing kid friendly movies. Seems just a little inconsistent doesn't it? I mean if your sooooo all about the PG Kid Friendly Demo, then why would you slam a man that caters to the exact same audience as you?

I thought The Rock won not only on style points but also in the fact that every promo he cut on Cena contained the same central theme. He flat out told him what he disliked about him and how he felt he was basically a pitiful clown.

Cena's promos were either inconsistent or in the case of the one leading up to Mania seemed like he was kissing ass the first half of it. The other part of it was that it seemed IMHO that while The Rock was attacking John Cena the wrestler, that Cena was attacking Dwayne Johnson the man and not The Rock. It was too much breaking down of the 4th wall for me to really engage myself in the promo itself...

Regardless of kayfabe or not, it didn't seem like Cena had much ammo to toss out against the Rock...he came off as petty and jealous of the success of Dwayne Johnson while the Rock just came out and completely tore down every aspect of John Cena the wrestler...he based his promos in more of a kayfabe manner then Cena as well.

When you say he won all his arguments what were you basing that comment on? The Rock was routinely getting monstrous pops from the crowds throughout every promo while Cena was getting booed like crazy...to show how bad it got if you go back and watch the Wrestlemania Press Conference, Cena paused a few times because the boos got so bad he was unable to hear himself speak. That’s not what should happen to the Top Face of your company just because a Legend comes back to host a show...not even wrestle...all he had to do was be in the building and all of Cena’s fan base turned in seconds...

If you wanna say that all Rock did was repeat catchphrases then fine, but in reality those catchphrases killed Cena...



Say what you want about 5 moves of doom...it doesn’t matter if Hogan, Rock, Austin or anyone else did that...we’re not talking about them so it’s irrelevant. Just because one wrestler gets away with something doesn’t mean every wrestler can. If it got to a point where every wrestler only used 5 moves then the business would be out of business.



Could’ve fooled me with your post defending everything about him....



I don’t deny his work ethic or who he is as a person. My gripe as a fan is that he is over-promoted and I don’t like his gimmick. I see a lot of people on the boards that just say oh yeah he sucks and blah blah blah without any sort of logical reason. This is the reason for my long winded reply. We all as fans have personal preferences and like certain guys while disliking others. The current product that the WWE puts out week after week is watered down in my opinion with a lot of guys that I think would’ve been jobbers on Superstars of Wrestling back in the day. Either there is nothing really special about them or they are currently being booked improperly...either way there is no one on the current roster that I look at and say wow....



Why would being a heel mean less T-shirt sales...Is that to say that the now, The Rock, Randy Orton, Macho Man and a list of others suffered from poor merchandising sales because they were heels....cuz unless you have sales figures I would be highly inclined to disagree.

To sum up this painfully long diatribe...for me to get behind a guy like John Cena he needs to change himself up...plenty of guys have completely repackaged themselves and become phenomenal successes...Stone Cold was the ringmaster...The Rock was Rocky Maivia...Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were tag team guys and HHH was once a French aristocrat...its not like he can’t become someone I’m interested in...just gotta lose this rap crap look and jean shorts as well as the Superman tag and maybe I could see myself supporting him...but the current portrayal onscreen is just not something I’m into at all...

You have to be the most annoying guy on earth!
First: Did u ever make your friends/family laugh? OMG you are a fail!

So let me get that, you just hate Cena because he wins without using starship pain and kicks in the head?? Well my generation likes Cena and just dont care about retired wrestlers that dont give a fuck about WWE!!

Myself and people who has humor probably think that Cena can own every single guy in the WWE!! He just destroyed The Rock with that rap, and i honestly think that The Rock only humiliated himself, by bitching to a kid, and with that hole story of Team BringIt (and Cena < Rock? WTF)!!
Now John Cena the person, is pretty much what he show us in is John Cena character!! So he just give us more realism in his promos and in case that you didnt notice, Wade Barret (ya a guy that Cena pushed to heaven) is IC Champion right now and he probably will be a major player in the WWE soon!!

About T-Shirts, well right now, it is generic, everybody hates Cena, because you have a friend, that has a cousin, that said that his best friend thinks that Cena is bad and well people now have to bitch about something, dont we? So, if he turns heel, KIDS will hate him, Adults hate him right now so if he turns, they wont give a fuck, so if he turns heel, he will only destroy every aspect of his merchandising part, SO that dont make any fucking sense.. Shiit you are crazy man!!

Wow and you hate rap, maybe if Cena dresses up as a ballerina you would like him!! And if Cena is a midcard (that owns GREAT CHarisma and the best talker in the WWE right now) what would you think about JoMo? or DB? You probably think that they are AWESOME and you want to fuck with them, maybe athreesome!!

OMG i am tired, you are a sad person!! Relax, dude and enjoy WWE, if you dont like it, well WWE dont need you at all!!

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Again...you&#8217;re a diehard Cena fan and you&#8217;re probably 12 so you don&#8217;t see the meaning between the lines...he&#8217;s your hero and it kills you people don&#8217;t like him so you resort to name calling and insults cuz you hope that will change people&#8217;s minds but it won&#8217;t...it is what it is...

Neither actually, I'm not a diehard Cena fan, I respect his work, I like how he works both sides. He's stated several times over the past few years about how he doesn't care that people boo him. that people don't like him, because that's who he is. If he didnt' want the mixed reaction, he'd change how he acts.

I'm not 12, I'm a 22 year old business/econ student, been watching wrestling since 1995, and have watched a ton of stuff from ROH to NOAH to old school Memphis. Cena is working both sides. Pretty obvious.


the guy who said "adults don't like Superman, they like Joker" pretty much summed it up. As for the italian guy, you don't like the character, that's why he's working you. If people weren't being worked, they wouldn't watch and they wouldn't make noise.

the term "mark" has evolved into anyone who is being worked. In carny terms, which is where it originated, that's all it means. If "mark" meant "people who think it's real" then NOBODY would be a mark.

Oh he wants to get booed...no sir you are flat out wrong...when the Cena boos were getting louder and louder you could visibly see on his face it made him uncomfortable and he didn&#8217;t like it too much...This is a guy that I HAVE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED as someone that works hard at being that clean cut guy, reppin the kiddie demo and giving back to the community and then all of a sudden to be showered with boos was a shock to him...maybe he has warmed up to the idea since then but no...he did not want those boos...

His big selling point the entire time was that The Rock left and he stayed to service the fans...he compared the Rock to a father that abandons you so he was a single mom and the fans jumped all over him and booed the hell out of him for it...he was not in anyway trying to be a heel...it just turned out that way cuz the fans preferred The Rock to Cena

He's trying to be a heel to the smarks who will boo any muscular babyface no matter what. He's orchestrated "lets go cena" "cena sucks" chants before. Can you not tell that he's CLEARLY working one side one way and the other another way? He's not a "heel" to smarks in the classic sense, only in the sense that he's getting on their nerves. He is who he is and they'll boo him. He doesn't care.

Ok this shows you are probably 15 or something. Moves don&#8217;t matter? You are a wrestling fan and you wanna sit here and say moves don&#8217;t matter? Bret Hart, Harley Race and Steve Austin could wrestle their asses off...these men had talent in the ring that few others have. Look at other successful names...Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Curt Hennig, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle...those men had incredible in-ring ability...they could tell a story without even doing promos if they had to cuz they had the moves to back it up...Hogan and Rock were good examples of not having spectacular ring ability but the others you mentioned did...

"tell a story" is ALWAYS done WITHOUT PROMOS. This is an in ring story. This is Harley Race and Jerry Lawler doing maybe 10 different moves combined (including punch, kick, headbutt) and telling the story of Race being a credible champion, using his smarts to run from Lawler without looking like a chickenshit, and Lawler looking like he could win if given just 5 more minutes. Pro wrestling is NOT about moves, Rock told stories with punches, a weak ass STO, and an elbow drop, Bret Hart did it with basic chain wrestling and his 5 moves of doom, flair did it by making the other guy look like a million bucks. Pro wrestling, like any entertainment, is about the story. Movies with the most effects don't win academy awards. Just like knowing the most moves doesn't make you the best wrestler.

So you know the ratings on each segment and know how each one does or who goes to the bathroom and all that? I am changing your name from TWJC to OZ cuz it seems you know all.

I don't know quarter hour ratings, but I do know that if they weren' big for Cena's segment that Vince wouldn't push him. I also know that the crowd is pretty damn loud during his matches, which would suggest people aren't in the restroom. Doesn't take a genius to see that Cena gets people watching.

OK so by saying this then you are actually saying that the only fans he has are children so in your mind anyone over the age of 12 is a mark cuz they don&#8217;t like the guy...this further tells me your age...

Cena's fans are generally women and kids, not the smarky crowd. using him getting booed by smarks as an example of how he sucks is pretty unfair.

Come on man....Rock has feuded with Hall of Famers and never cut a promo talkin about respecting anyone...Austin, HHH, Undertaker, Hogan and literally a who&#8217;s who of wrestling and all of a sudden out of everyone he ever feuded with CENA is the one he respects? That was Vince tellin Rock to ease up cuz your burying my top star and when you leave I won&#8217;t have anyone as a credible face...get him some pops...do me the favor...

Promos are scripted, you know this. I'm pretty sure Rock told Hogan he respected him during their ICON vs ICON thing. It's how those feuds work. He didn't say that to anyone in the attitude era because that wasn't the style of the era. Cena never respected anyone in 2003 either.

Cena called Rock out for not really giving a shit about the fans and Rock didn't have a response. Cena wasn't as harsh on Rock near the end either because Vince probably doesn't want Rock to get a backlash when people realize "hey, he tried football before wrestling, failed, then tried wrestling, then left for movies, now only shows up when it's convenient for him, maybe he doesn't care about us."

Bottom line is this, Cena is one extremely talented guy. If Vince or Cena didn't want smarks to boo him, they could easily change his character and style. They dont, because it's a much more fun reaction and show with a mixed reaction. It's also a lot more "real" because that's how people are in real life. You saying you don't like his character is no different than some kid booing Miz or some drunk southerner booing whoever was going against Jerry Lawler, is no different than a local at a carnival booing the champion wrestler there to challenge any man in the crowd. It's gotten more sophisticated over time, but wrestlers still work everyone in the building.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I love how some are actually attempting to convince us that Vince and Cena want a mixed reaction. They like that sort of thing. Marking out a bit much, yeah?

As for the OP, how does the heat not seem genuine? A good number of people do not like John Cena. I know it's incomprehensible for Cena marks to hear, but it's true. If it were merely a fad, it would have died off by now. That's how fads work. I'm not saying these people are justified in every criticism of Cena, but it's how they feel.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who boo him because they think it's cool, but if they liked him, they wouldn't be booing, so the point remains the same.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I love how some are actually attempting to convince us that Vince and Cena want a mixed reaction. They like that sort of thing. Marking out a bit much, yeah?

As for the OP, how does the heat not seem genuine? A good number of people do not like John Cena. I know it's incomprehensible for Cena marks to hear, but it's true. If it were merely a fad, it would have died off by now. That's how fads work. I'm not saying these people are justified in every criticism of Cena, but it's how they feel.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who boo him because they think it's cool, but if they liked him, they wouldn't be booing, so the point remains the same.

Is that why Cena has literally said "I want the men to chant Cena sucks and everyone else to chant lets go cena"? Is that why Miz has been basically mimicking the IWC calling him "supercena" etc? Is that why they haven't changed his gimmick? It's not that hard to figure out. The people who buy merchandise, kids, like him. the people who don't buy as much merch boo him and boo pretty much any muscular babyface who doesn't do fancy moves.

At first they probably didn't want a mixed reaction. However, after examing what was gonig on, Vince was probably like "wow this is kinda cool, the deuling chants" and stuck with it.

Personally I think Cena's character would be really boring if they made him more aggressive or edgy to appeal to the smarks. I like the cheesey corny all american cena that gets on the IWC's nerves, in part because I think most smarks are tools, and also because the deuling chants are awesome. The people who cheer Cena, really REALLY love him, the people who boo him really REALLY hate him, the character anyways. This isn't a bad thing. 100% of the audience is making noise and seem to be putting a lot of effort behind it because they really believe in what they're doing. That's awesome and is the goal of any pro wrestler.

Someone explain to me how people booing Cena proves he's bad? He gets cheers out of the people who they want to cheer him, the other side boos him and still watches. They don't dislike the person as many have pointed out, they don't like the character. They enjoy watching Cena the character get beat up and enjoy cheering for whoever he's against. To me that is no different than any other heel throughout history. Just so happens Cena is both a heel and a face, not a tweener, but his actions are liked by some and disliked by others. Just like real life. I don't see how smarks booing Cena proves in any way that he's bad.

Freddy Blassie and Shiek got geniune heat by working the audience. It lasted forever and wasn't just a fad. The IWC thinks of themselves as above being worked. They're not. By making noise, YOU ARE BEING WORKED. If you REALLY dislike the guy, don't make any noise. Don't watch his matches. That's the ONLY way Vince will change Cena. Otherwise everyone is making noise and everyone is watching, which is the desired reaction. If smarks were as smart as they thought they were, they would do this. booing Cena doesn't say "hey Vince, I'm not entertained" it says "hey Vince, this guy annoys me and I want to see him get beat up" which, by them saying that (booing) also happens to cause children and women to make even more noise.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

As has become the norm around here, Mr.TWJC has made most of you to look like froth mouthed idiots.

Wether booing or cheering, Cena gets the most reaction of the night, every night, without fail. Which, wether you all want to admit it or not, is the point of professional wrestling. From the front row to the back row, every age, gender and type, EVERY single person cares about what is going on in the arena when John Cena is involved.

Something no one else on the WWE roster can say.

 

[Italian9979]

So let me get that, you just hate Cena because he wins without using starship pain and kicks in the head?? Well my generation likes Cena and just dont care about retired wrestlers that dont give a fuck about WWE!!

What about my post gave you the impression of Starship Pain and kicks in the head...actually I think I made it a point to mention wrestlers like Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle...guys that could wrestle circles around most of the guys that have ever worn a pair of tights...great technical wrestlers that always put on a clinic whenever they were in the ropes...

Myself and people who has humor probably think that Cena can own every single guy in the WWE!! He just destroyed The Rock with that rap, and i honestly think that The Rock only humiliated himself, by bitching to a kid, and with that hole story of Team BringIt (and Cena < Rock? WTF)!!

I guess this just depends on personal taste...agree to disagree...I stated above why I didn’t like it buy hey...to each their own...

Now John Cena the person, is pretty much what he show us in is John Cena character!! So he just give us more realism in his promos and in case that you didnt notice, Wade Barret (ya a guy that Cena pushed to heaven) is IC Champion right now and he probably will be a major player in the WWE soon!!

What does Wade Barrett have to do with the conversation...

About T-Shirts, well right now, it is generic, everybody hates Cena, because you have a friend that has a cousin, that said that his best friend thinks that Cena is bad and well people now have to bitch about something, don’t we? So, if he turns heel, KIDS will hate him, Adults hate him right now so if he turns, they won’t give a fuck, so if he turns heel, he will only destroy every aspect of his merchandising part, SO that don’t make any fucking sense.. Shiit you are crazy man!!

I had someone else mention merchandising....I’m sure that whole nWo or DX thing hurt their merchandising a lot...cuz heels never have good merch sales...not to mention HHH, The Rock and Stone Cold when they were all heels...cuz people NEVER buy heel merch...

Wow and you hate rap, maybe if Cena dresses up as a ballerina you would like him!! And if Cena is a mid-card (that owns GREAT Charisma and the best talker in the WWE right now) what would you think about JoMo? Or DB? You probably think that they are AWESOME and you want to fuck with them, maybe a threesome!!

This is just a stupid statement...and there is a big difference between hating rap and having a rapper wrestler...the two are not mutually exclusive...if I want a white rapper I’ll throw on one of Eminem CD’s and get the real thing... why do people think if you curse and insult someone in an internet post it will hurt them in RL... and the gay slurs and stupid comments show your ignorance...

P.S. most people that make homophobic slurs usually are the ones with gay tendancies...ya know...just sayin....

OMG i am tired, you are a sad person!! Relax, dude and enjoy WWE, if you dont like it, well WWE dont need you at all!!

This part was great...I am a sad person cuz my opinion is at odds with yours? This is a forum dedicated to this exact conversation but I notice that all the Cena “marks” start throwing accusations of homosexuality and cursing and rude insults as soon as you give them intelligent reasons behind disliking something....its funny that men are calling other men gay for disliking “their guy”...

 

[Lucid]

Why can't "grown men" appreciate what it's like to look at the world through a child's eyes?
What IS exactly wrong IS the concept of children being some sort of illegitimate mutant that has no conception of good and bad.
What does that say about "grown people" who look down on their offspring in such a way?

 

[FSWWE]

What about my post gave you the impression of Starship Pain and kicks in the head...actually I think I made it a point to mention wrestlers like Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle...guys that could wrestle circles around most of the guys that have ever worn a pair of tights...great technical wrestlers that always put on a clinic whenever they were in the ropes...



I guess this just depends on personal taste...agree to disagree...I stated above why I didn’t like it buy hey...to each their own...



What does Wade Barrett have to do with the conversation...



I had someone else mention merchandising....I’m sure that whole nWo or DX thing hurt their merchandising a lot...cuz heels never have good merch sales...not to mention HHH, The Rock and Stone Cold when they were all heels...cuz people NEVER buy heel merch...



This is just a stupid statement...and there is a big difference between hating rap and having a rapper wrestler...the two are not mutually exclusive...if I want a white rapper I’ll throw on one of Eminem CD’s and get the real thing... why do people think if you curse and insult someone in an internet post it will hurt them in RL... and the gay slurs and stupid comments show your ignorance...

P.S. most people that make homophobic slurs usually are the ones with gay tendancies...ya know...just sayin....



This part was great...I am a sad person cuz my opinion is at odds with yours? This is a forum dedicated to this exact conversation but I notice that all the Cena “marks” start throwing accusations of homosexuality and cursing and rude insults as soon as you give them intelligent reasons behind disliking something....its funny that men are calling other men gay for disliking “their guy”...

Now you are just being a prick!!
- John Cena is the number 1 face of the WWE, you dont like because you dont want to like, and if you didnt smile with Cena's rap (to Rock) and his homophobic slur, well you have personality issues my man!!
WWE is PG now, and he didnt say "hey you're a fagot" he said an intelligent joke, in case you dont know Brockeback Mountain is a movie with homo characters, its not the word, is how he said that, it was cool and fun to watch!

- In case you didnt notice, im not discussing TNA or ROH, im talking about WWE- the E stands for entertainment you know that, dont you?
WWE have wrestlers, they have luchadores, high flyers, power houses etc, but what WWE has that no company has, is people with charisma that can sell!
Give Benoit or Bret Hart a microphone, and everybody would turn the channel!

WWE dont stand for wrestling ONLY!! A lot of WWE fans love The Rock, not because he is a good wrestler, because he entertain people!
And the same goes with John Cena, he is supposed to be the best of the business and if by any chance you dont agree with that, is because you're a little bit old to watch WWE and you only like to see guys with 6 pack abs doing suplexes and hurricaranas ...

One last thing the attitude era is over... Over!! U get that, dont u?
If you think that the PG era is lame, man stop watching WWE and stop posting here, where guys like TWJC like to be entertained and dont criticize what WWE has the best to offer!!
Go see Kurt Angle on TNA and go hate AJ Styles in the TNA Posting Section!!

P.S I rather be a child for thinking that is funny when John Cena called The Rock GAY, than being here and simply saying The Rock is not gay, you are :´(

Grow up, fuck i've wasted my time!!

 

[Italian9979]

Neither actually, I'm not a diehard Cena fan, I respect his work, I like how he works both sides. He's stated several times over the past few years about how he doesn't care that people boo him. That people don't like him, because that's who he is. If he didn’t' want the mixed reaction, he'd change how he acts.

You come off like a diehard and if you are then that’s fine...we all like who we like...but that’s not necessarily true...we don’t know how much creative control he has on his character and Vince is known for shoving things down the fan’s throats...sign pulling and other tactics are common knowledge in how the WWE operates.

I'm not 12, I'm a 22 year old business/econ student, been watching wrestling since 1995, and have watched a ton of stuff from ROH to NOAH to old school Memphis. Cena is working both sides. Pretty obvious.

12 or 22 you came off quite immature with the cursing and poor spelling and what not...seemed childish but whatever...This is like saying that Hogan wanted to be booed in the 90’s I don’t think Cena wants to be booed...I think he likes being the face of the company...that’s not a bad thing...I just don’t’ see it...

The term "mark" has evolved into anyone who is being worked. In carny terms, which is where it originated, that's all it means. If "mark" meant "people who think it's real" then NOBODY would be a mark.

Ok then there’s the explanation to that one...never got that term...

Can you not tell that he's CLEARLY working one side one way and the other another way? He's not a "heel" to smarks in the classic sense, only in the sense that he's getting on their nerves. He is who he is and they'll boo him. He doesn't care.

So what you’re saying is that he is a tweener then...not a face or a heel...more like an in-between character? That’s an interesting interpretation but he doesn’t really do heel like things to justify that type of characteration...

Pro wrestling is NOT about moves, Rock told stories with punches, a weak ass STO, and an elbow drop, Bret Hart did it with basic chain wrestling and his 5 moves of doom, flair did it by making the other guy look like a million bucks. Pro wrestling, like any entertainment, is about the story.

I don’t agree with this...yes there have been guys in the ring that didn’t rely on in-ring skills to get over but as I’ve mentioned before there were plenty of guys that used solid ring skills...Bret Hart was a very proficient technical wrestler...chain wrestling if that’s how you want to label it was a very good way to get it done...every wrestler has their own basic moves set but there were guys that sold it better and could do it for say 60 mins, guys like Chris Jericho, Ricky Steamboat, Curt Hennig, Shawn Michaels...Pro wrestling is about moves...even when people watch a Sin Cara or a Rey Mysterio it’s about the moves they do that make the crowd go nuts...the problem is that the idea of Pro Wrestling is being moved way too far into the realm of Sports Entertainment...I mean could you really tell me there are guys in the ring right now that could go 60 mins and keep you interested? Maybe this is an old school vs new school argument...

Cena's fans are generally women and kids, not the smarky crowd. using him getting booed by smarks as an example of how he sucks is pretty unfair.

Why is it unfair though? People think he is great and people think he sucks...you can’t say it’s unfair because one segment of the fans hate him and another don’t...that’s like me saying you can’t tell me he is great because women and kids love him...works both ways...

Promos are scripted, you know this. I'm pretty sure Rock told Hogan he respected him during their ICON vs. ICON thing. Its how those feuds work. He didn't say that to anyone in the attitude era because that wasn't the style of the era. Cena never respected anyone in 2003 either.

Promos are scripted now...This is because they don’t trust the guys on the mic and they just aren’t polished enough to just go out there and cut a promo...It is common knowledge and many wrestlers have gone on the record saying that promos weren’t scripted...they were given a few beats to hit but they came up with their own delivery and said the things they wanted...Prime examples of guys that could do promos on the fly are Randy Savage and Chris Jericho...

And the difference between ICON vs. ICON was that at the time Hogan’s career was winding down and The Rock was the one getting the torch at Mania...Rock was showing respect to a guy that paved the way for wrestling to become so mainstream and wildly popular...one can say without Hogan there might not have been a Rock... in this case it went the other way...if you wanna compare the two then right now Cena would be the Rock and The Rock would be Hogan... so if anyone professes respect it should be Cena not the Rock....

Cena called Rock out for not really giving a shit about the fans and Rock didn't have a response. Cena wasn't as harsh on Rock near the end either because Vince probably doesn't want Rock to get a backlash when people realize "hey, he tried football before wrestling, failed, then tried wrestling, then left for movies, now only shows up when it's convenient for him, maybe he doesn't care about us."

He did respond to that directly during his long winded (yes I’m a Rock fan but that promo went on wayyyy to long, he could’ve accomplished his point in half the time.) satellite promo...he talks about how he accomplished all he wanted to...how he wanted to try a second career and open up doors for future talent which begs the question of this...How enthusiastic would Vince have been to start the WWE Films division if he had not seen the mainstream success of the Rock in his earlier films?...He DID open opportunities to Cena cuz he went on to do a couple of movies as well as a few other superstars...Austin did a few...HHH did a few....how open would these guys have been if the Rock would’ve become another Piper or godforbid a Hogan...he DID address all of this... He out and out explained himself point by point...I don’t know why people say the Rock never answered back...is it blind hatred or ignorance?

You saying you don't like his character is no different than some kid booing Miz or some drunk southerner booing whoever was going against Jerry Lawler, is no different than a local at a carnival booing the champion wrestler there to challenge any man in the crowd.

That’s completely different...you are comparing rule breaking underhanded heels to an established face...now if you are talking about making him a full blown heel then ok then you can compare...but the boos he gets are a lot different from the Miz...A face’s job is get pops not booed...

 

[Italian9979]

Now you are just being a prick!!

This comment made me spit out my water...that was just too funny lol...I almost wanna make this my sig...

John Cena is the number 1 face of the WWE, you don’t like because you don’t want to like, and if you didn’t smile with Cena's rap (to Rock) and his homophobic slur, well you have personality issues my man!! WWE is PG now, and he didnt say "hey you're a fagot" he said an intelligent joke, in case you don’t know Brokeback Mountain is a movie with homo characters, it’s not the word, is how he said that, it was cool and fun to watch!

That’s right...I don’t like...hence my detailed explanations...thanks for making that clear cuz I wasn’t sure...

P.S. I didn’t say he had no good promos or even funny ones...and the homophobic slurs were directed at your comments not Cena’s...but it’s interesting that seemed to hit you so hard...maybe you have some questions you wanna ask yourself...seems you have some inner demons you are trying to work out...good luck on that...

In case you didn’t notice, I’m not discussing TNA or ROH, I’m talking about WWE- the E stands for entertainment you know that, don’t you?

Well actually my friend the E doesn’t stand for anything anymore but if you wanna really break it down you know the second W stood for Wrestling....don’t you?

Give Benoit or Bret Hart a microphone, and everybody would turn the channel!

Benoit was horrendous on the mic but I find that Bret was very underrated in his promo work...he wasn’t the best ever by any means but he could work the crowd well during his segments...check out his Hart Foundation run towards the end of his WWF career and see what I’m talking about...

WWE don’t stand for wrestling ONLY!! A lot of WWE fans love The Rock, not because he is a good wrestler, because he entertain people! And the same goes with John Cena, he is supposed to be the best of the business and if by any chance you don’t agree with that, is because you're a little bit old to watch WWE and you only like to see guys with 6 pack abs doing suplexes and hurricaranas ...

More gay slurs...does anyone else see the pattern here...you can’t go one post without a litany of anti-gay rants...I’m no champion of the Rainbow Colored Warriors (great new line btw) but it seems you got some issues to work out...it’s ok nowadays ya know....

One last thing the attitude era is over... Over!! U get that, dont u?

Sadly yes...but obviously it’s not so over that the best match of the WrestleMania were two Attitude Era wrestlers HHH vs. Undertaker...not to mention that the two faces of the Attitude Era were brought back in big spots to help sell their matches and PPV... Stone Cold as special guest referee and the Rock as the host...not to mention they also brought in the best Diva in history Trish Stratus to give some credibility...AND WRESTLEMANIA STILL SUCKED...no amount of star power was enough to save that horrible train wreck...

Seems like the Attitude Era is something they still need to keep the engine going...

Yes I know that burned...I just pissed on your dreams...no comeback for this...

P.S I rather be a child for thinking that is funny when John Cena called The Rock GAY, than being here and simply saying The Rock is not gay, you are :´(

Glad to see you want to have kids grow up to be gaybashers...thats awesome...ahhhh the future...cuz again with the gay issue....what’s up man...did you do something lately that’s making you harp on this...did you see someone differently and it make you start to ask questions...your post was the most gay centric one I have seen in ages...it was in damn near every response...it was eerie...

Grow up, fuck i've wasted my time!!

It’s never a waste of time to bring laughter to another person...

 

[FSWWE]

This comment made me spit out my water...that was just too funny lol...I almost wanna make this my sig...


That’s right...I don’t like...hence my detailed explanations...thanks for making that clear cuz I wasn’t sure...

P.S. I didn’t say he had no good promos or even funny ones...and the homophobic slurs were directed at your comments not Cena’s...but it’s interesting that seemed to hit you so hard...maybe you have some questions you wanna ask yourself...seems you have some inner demons you are trying to work out...good luck on that...


Well actually my friend the E doesn’t stand for anything anymore but if you wanna really break it down you know the second W stood for Wrestling....don’t you?


Benoit was horrendous on the mic but I find that Bret was very underrated in his promo work...he wasn’t the best ever by any means but he could work the crowd well during his segments...check out his Hart Foundation run towards the end of his WWF career and see what I’m talking about...


More gay slurs...does anyone else see the pattern here...you can’t go one post without a litany of anti-gay rants...I’m no champion of the Rainbow Colored Warriors (great new line btw) but it seems you got some issues to work out...it’s ok nowadays ya know....


Sadly yes...but obviously it’s not so over that the best match of the WrestleMania were two Attitude Era wrestlers HHH vs. Undertaker...not to mention that the two faces of the Attitude Era were brought back in big spots to help sell their matches and PPV... Stone Cold as special guest referee and the Rock as the host...not to mention they also brought in the best Diva in history Trish Stratus to give some credibility...AND WRESTLEMANIA STILL SUCKED...no amount of star power was enough to save that horrible train wreck...

Seems like the Attitude Era is something they still need to keep the engine going...

Yes I know that burned...I just pissed on your dreams...no comeback for this...



Glad to see you want to have kids grow up to be gaybashers...thats awesome...ahhhh the future...cuz again with the gay issue....what’s up man...did you do something lately that’s making you harp on this...did you see someone differently and it make you start to ask questions...your post was the most gay centric one I have seen in ages...it was in damn near every response...it was eerie...


It’s never a waste of time to bring laughter to another person...

LOL you talk a lot more about homos than I, thats for sure!!
You are like The Rock now, you just dont say anything rational to discuss!!

Now a couple of question:

• Why are you so interested in my sexuality?
• What the hell Cena has to being hated so much by you? Did he fucked your gf or something? (the last part is only a comedy job xD)
• Would you rather see Cena as a heel or being fired?
• Do you even like WWE - The sports entertainment company?
• Who is you fav. wrestler right now?

Sorry but you really looked like a 4 year old kid saying.
Im not gay, you are AHAHAHA C'mon dude!!

 

[Italian9979]

LOL you talk a lot more about homos than I, thats for sure!!

Actually all my comments were responses to your posts...so it is not I my friend...

You are like The Rock now, you just dont say anything rational to discuss!!

Actually I responded to each thing you said in detail and then for my own amusement mocked you...so that means either you can't read or you have reading comprehension problems...

Now a couple of question:

• Why are you so interested in my sexuality?
• What the hell Cena has to being hated so much by you? Did he fucked your gf or something? (the last part is only a comedy job xD)
• Would you rather see Cena as a heel or being fired?
• Do you even like WWE - The sports entertainment company?
• Who is you fav. wrestler right now?

I'm not...just wondering why you made it the central theme of EVERY post you made. Go back and reread your posts...in every comment you had some sort of anti-gay bias...I just thought it was humorous to point it out...

I don't hate the guy at all...go back and reread some of my prior posts on the subject...outside of the ring I have heard he is a hard worker that gives 100% to his career and he dedicates him to many many charities which tells me he gives back to his community...I would never despise a guy like that. My problem was his on-screen portrayal...just not something im into...I don't see the problem with that...you might but I don't...its boring and stale and not in any way interesting to me...at least I gave honest clear cut and intelligent reasons why..

I don't wanna see the guy fired...I would prefer him as a heel dropping the rap gimmick...something less kid friendly and SuperCena like...I feel the rap angle is boring...like i said before if i wanna hear a white rapper I will pop in some Eminem...change yourself up man...even Hogan reinvented himself in the nWo....do something drastic and stop being the same thing over and over...

I have been a fan of WWF/WWE since 1985...some periods were better then others but like any other entertainment venue you stick with the good and the bad...I'm from NY and I'm a Yankee fan...that doesn't mean if they start losing every game I'll like another team...I just wish there wasn't such a mad on by Vince to edit out every mention of the name Wrestling from his Wrestling company...

I don't have a particular favorite among the crop of current performers...some guys I like and some I don't...none of them seem to give me a reason to favor one over the other...

Sorry but you really looked like a 4 year old kid saying.Im not gay, you are AHAHAHA C'mon dude!!

I never said that....again...go read YOUR OWN POSTS...every single one was laced with anti-homo rants...I could care less I just thought it was funny....don't put it on me...had you said nothing I would've had no response to give...

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

So what you&#8217;re saying is that he is a tweener then...not a face or a heel...more like an in-between character? That&#8217;s an interesting interpretation but he doesn&#8217;t really do heel like things to justify that type of characteration...

Do you not read what I say? I'll spell it out to you.

HE'S NOT A TRADITIONAL HEEL OR FACE HE'S TOTALLY NEW. By doing BABYFACE THINGS he gets HEEL HEAT from the smarks. Because of this, he's a HEEL to them. A heel is just someone who wants to get booed. He wants to get booed by the IWC. It's a great reaction.

How are you so dense? How can you not grasp what I'm trying to say? Pretty much everyone else does. He's a fucking HUUUUUUGE babyface to the kids and that pisses off the IWC. So, he's a heel to the IWC and he likes that.

YES, he wants to be booed, not by everyone (which he doesn't, not even close) but by YOU. YOU don't like him because he doesn't want you to. He IS the biggest babyface in the company.

Holy shit man. I donno how else to explain what's going on to you. You just seem oblivious and unable to understand that he's a heel to some and a face to others, NOT a tweener, a tweener is like an anti hero. He's TOTALLY NEW TO THIS GENERATION. He's not 100% either way, but because the pro wrestling audience has this dynamic where a lot are kids and a handful are loud smarks, he MUST work both. He works both by doing the same things, just gets a different reaction out of each side.

That&#8217;s completely different...you are comparing rule breaking underhanded heels to an established face...now if you are talking about making him a full blown heel then ok then you can compare...but the boos he gets are a lot different from the Miz...A face&#8217;s job is get pops not booed...

goddman you're dumb. I mean that as an abjective, not an insult. As in, everyone else is able to comprehend this except for you. CENA ONLY WANTS CHEERS FROM KIDS NOT EVERYONE. Smarks will boo any all american babyface. However, parents will be much more apt to spend merch on their kids if he's an all american babyface. Smarks boo him, it makes kids cheer louder. YOU BOOING HIM IS WHAT HE WANTS, NOT EVERYONE, JUST YOU AND THE IWC. I type in all caps so you can read it. Jesus, how is it that multiple posters have understood what I'm trying to say and you can't get past thinking "he's a face, he doesn't want any boos". This isn't 1980, this isn't even 2000. The way the crowd is, you MUST be able to work BOTH types of fans to get everyone 100% making noise.

Here's how it works, Cena is corny and "aw shucks" like and just really really "good". This pisses the IWC off, thus, he's a heel with the IWC. This makes kids and parents love him, thus, he's a babyface with them. he's not a tweener, he's not an antihero, he's John Cena. John Cena is John Cena. Some people like John Cena, some people don't, but EVERYONE is making noise.

He does't suck and his character doesn't suck. If it did, there wouldn't be so much noise. If smarks aren't getting worked by him, they wouldn't make noise and they wouldn't watch his segments.

When I watch tough enough, and Rima is getting "put over" I change the channel because I think she's a joke and is making the show and pro wrestling look like a joke. I don't go "man this pisses me off I'm going to watch and get pissed" I change the channel because it doesn't entertain me, it makes me want to change the channel.



Seriously, explain to me how you don't understand that he wants cheers from the kids, and boos from the IWC. He's being himself, it gets a split reaction, but EVERYONE is reacting. The goal of a pro wrestler is to get everyone to react and watch, which he gets. He doesn't give a shit if the IWC cheers him, because they don't buy his merch. they boo him, and it's fun, and he works with it.