Lack of Respect VS Seniority

[Dagger Dias]

This is a growing issue that gets worse every day. Seniority used to mean something. Older people were regarded as wise mentors with very respected opinions. Not so much anymore. It isn't just the elderly that I'm talking about. The further down you go in age categories, the less respect you see.... Middle Aged people not respecting the elderly.... Young adults not respecting middle agers OR the elderly.... Teens not respecting anybody older than them.... It seems as though people just do not show respect for ANYONE who happens to be older than them, with a few exceptions.

I have experienced it as a non-traditional college student (24 year old, surrounded by the 18-21 crowd). I am a member of an organization on campus that I used to be proud to be a part of. Not anymore. When I first got in back in 2005 when I was a freshman, there were 70 members. I am the last remaining active member from that group of 70, as the others graduated or quit. Now, you'd THINK that the other actives would listen to my ideas and respect my opinions, as I know more about how the organization worked in the past and have the most membership experience, right? WRONG. I am treated rudely at meetings and no one in the active group seems to care about my say anymore now. I remember back when senior members of organizations were counted on when new directions for the group were needed.... not ignored constantly. I would have quit, but I decided to stick around since I care about what happens to the group that I devoted 10 semesters to being in. That, plus I am friends with a lot of the alumni members.

I don't understand what happened to make seniority a BAD thing. It used to earn someone respect, not the other way around. I'm just glad I'm seeing this now in my last year of college, rather than in the workplace once I get older. I'm guilty of it too, not always liking the opinions of those who are older than me, but I still make it a point to listen to them and take what they have to say into consideration! More people should do the same because it's the right thing to do, that person might know something that could benefit you!

Has this ever happened to you? Have people started treating you rudely if you became one of the older members of an organization? What did you do about it? What are your thoughts on the lack of respect shown by someone younger to someone older, regardless of how big or small the age gap is?

 

[falconsault]

This isn't just a problem in the civilian aspect, some of the new Airman coming in forget that they are at the bottom of the totem pole sometimes. It's only happened to me once, as an E-4 Senior Airman I was told to have this E-2 Airman do something, when I told him to do it, he told me that he didn't have to do what I told him that I was just handed my stripe.

Unlike the civilian side, I could do somethng about it and ordered him to perform the task, he still refused, so I called in an NCO to make him understand that he has to follow the orders of anyone appointed over him, including me as a Senior Airman. We were cool afterward but that moment just sticks out to me.

I don't like pulling rank on anyone, it hardly gains any ground with anyone, but sometimes you just have to.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I'm guilty of it too, not always liking the opinions of those who are older than me, but I still make it a point to listen to them and take what they have to say into consideration!

It's smart to take the opinions of others into consideration as long as you're making up your own mind in the end and not relying on the older person's experience as the gospel.

You're right, Dagger, too many young people disregard their elders input, but it's a two-sided problem: Many seniors have gained experience but not wisdom. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Just because they've "seen it all" doesn't mean they processed it all correctly.

There is value in experience and younger folks would be wise to listen to what their elders are saying...... then, do what they feel is right. You might be smarter than the older person, but they've seen more and we should use their experience to our own advantage.

Additionally, we shouldn't think that the young ignoring the old is something only today's youth is guilty of. Consider this quote:

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

If that sounds like an indictment of today's young people, consider that it was spoken by Aristotle in the year 350 B.C. (approx.)

 

[Eck]

I respect anyone who respects me. Most people older then me I look up to and respect. But if they don''t respect me I don't respect them. They could be younger then me and they don't respect me I don't respect them. That being said, everyone I meet i respect. I respect older people because they usually give me respect. I hate when people look down on me and that's when I don't respect them. I'll listen to people becausse if they tell me something it;s usually something worth hearing And even if it's not I still listen because I would hate if people didn't listen to me. Goes back to the rule we were taught when we where younger: "Treat others the way you want to be treated"

 

[One to Remember]

I am a member of an organization on campus that I used to be proud to be a part of. Not anymore. When I first got in back in 2005 when I was a freshman, there were 70 members. I am the last remaining active member from that group of 70, as the others graduated or quit. Now, you'd THINK that the other actives would listen to my ideas and respect my opinions, as I know more about how the organization worked in the past and have the most membership experience, right? WRONG. I am treated rudely at meetings and no one in the active group seems to care about my say anymore now.

I am going to address what you said separately from anything else in this thread because I feel your example is actualy no good.
If your group had 70 members and 69 are now gone but only 35 to 40 due to graduation why in the bloody hell would that not reflect badly on you? from their standpoint your actually a nerd that just doesn't no when to give it up. As a southerner I can smell a diehard from a mile away. Why would theythik your views on what the group should be serve any relevance if it did not keep their forerunners from quitting? Why would it make sense for the guy who couldn't maintain old members under old bylaws and old concepts to take leadership position over the new class who is keeping the roll call steady? You have seniority confused with experience. Your experience is obsolete in some manner. The problem with the old heads sometimes is they can't understand or come to terms with the fact that some bits of old skool have no contemporary use.

Its like some people will say the Cleveland Browns were not the Old Cleveland Browns even though its the same uniform, city, and name. The organization faltered under their predecessors and its now a new organization in every regard except name.

This isn't just a problem in the civilian aspect, some of the new Airman coming in forget that they are at the bottom of the totem pole sometimes. It's only happened to me once, as an E-4 Senior Airman I was told to have this E-2 Airman do something, when I told him to do it, he told me that he didn't have to do what I told him that I was just handed my stripe.

Thats also a bit off topic because what you described is not a seniority issue but one of insubordination. What you described could very well had been unlawful or criminal. The military is all about rank and compliance, in society we can take an older individual's know how with a grain of "sault" or not at all. It sounds to me like the E-2 had an issue not with rank but how you attained it.

I am not at all commenting on you personally but do you know how log are military was dormant? When I joined the NG in 2007 I was pretty much on my way to the front line. If I had remained in the NG most of my superior officers would be what we called all through out the '90s "weekend warriors.." I think that would had lead to resentment. Unlike a Persian Gulf War vet who served under those in Nam or a Vietnam vet getting barked orders from WWII and Korean War vets and so on. With not much going on I look at our generals today and Lt. Generals and wonder why they have so many ribbons and stripes sometime. They're in Iraq and Affy but before that where did the decorations come from? That could be an issue causing some contempt which shares a thin line with brattiness which a younger guy is more prone demonstrate by acting out.

My stance is someone personal being ingaged in battles with so many internet warriors on so many forums that at this point value the merit of so guy not how long has worked somewhere or merely avoided termination. I got soo tired of hearing online how n00bs/newbs were out of line and the seniority card being pulled attack people, their views, and their knowledge that i just became pure pro-youth.

I think socially society is so divergent that from what it is that with not enough common denominators misscommunication soon turns into conflicts with those viewed too alien to even have A right to contribute or way in. I have always felt like as someone born in the late '80s that a baby boomer was the most annoying person you could talk to and the most out of touch and uncompromising and attention hogging. I always love to hear from the "Greatest Generation" but not anyone about 55 or younger.

I think a huge issue today is how we learn and how often we must. Life has gotten so revved up you have to perform better and be prepared to compete. Retirement is now 67 years and people work longer or just start up again. Younot only have to learn tricks but you must have the ability to quickly learn new tricks and the capacity to have new tricks. The baby boomers want pensions and job security but today you must be of absolute use every time a new challenge arises.

And as far as netiquette is concerned I think seniority is used online to gang up on people. Forums are known for the wolfpack mentality as evident in my TNA PPV naming thread.. Seniority is used to hamper debate and is used as a veto card or as a means to blatantly speak over others. It often leads us into the realm of forced socialfication and bandwagonism which i can not stand. If any senior has anything of use to truly add to a young gun he will not rest until he is heard.. If your trying to help some body your going to have to fight hardheadedness and stubbornness with a passion, if helping and teaching is ur intention you won't be bitter, you'll just take it in strides..

 

[Dagger Dias]

I am going to address what you said separately from anything else in this thread because I feel your example is actualy no good.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.

If your group had 70 members and 69 are now gone but only 35 to 40 due to graduation why in the bloody hell would that not reflect badly on you?

What killed the organization was BS drama, clique problems, as well as lack of respect that resulted from the two previously mentioned issues. They were founded in 2001 by about 15 to 20 people. In 2005 when I got in there were 70 people. 5 were among the original founders, 15 from previous pledge classes, and 50 from my pledge class. The organization lost, I kid you not, half of its members due to drama the semester after I got in. Someone felt that one of the exec board leaders was not doing her job, and got her kicked out of office. A ton of people got pissed off and the resulting drama led to us shrinking down to 30-40. Then they changed the recruitment process to where the pledges had separate meetings from us regular actives, which resulted in more clique problems where the pledges only hung out with people from their pledge class, not us older members. I noticed this issue becoming a huge problem by 2007 and tried to unite the members, but was ignored. Then the issue of cliques kept growing as more of the older members graduated. The younger members did not care about the older members, thus the lack of respect that I mentioned. The 2009 class was the worst of all, only hanging out with themselves and never with older members, and starting more pointless drama, causing even more people to leave. So, it does not reflect badly on me because I tried to fix the problem by suggesting that everyone befriend and hang out with everyone, but they wanted to keep their little cliques and not want anything to do with the older members.

from their standpoint your actually a nerd that just doesn't no when to give it up.

Oh, are we resorting to name-calling now? Real mature. I might think you're an asshole, but I don't have to rely on that in my arguments. Plus unlike you, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that I don't even know you. Try getting to know somebody before making assumptions about who they are as a person.

As a southerner I can smell a diehard from a mile away. Why would theythik your views on what the group should be serve any relevance if it did not keep their forerunners from quitting?

People quit because of BS drama, and lack of respect. They were tired of putting up with idiots that deep down they didn't care about. I was too stubborn to leave, I wanted to remain loyal to the organization.

Why would it make sense for the guy who couldn't maintain old members under old bylaws and old concepts to take leadership position over the new class who is keeping the roll call steady?

I ran for many positions. They never gave me the ball to run with. Just last year I ran for the head of recruitment (basically the same as a pledgemaster for a fraternity) while including a powerpoint presentation showing my qualifications, as well as a print-out of planned events and rules for the next semester in its entirety. Everyone liked my presentation.... but the job ended up going to a stupid freshman who doesn't have a clue as to what the hell he's doing and had been active for one semester (I had been in for 10 semesters by that point).... Why is that? CLIQUES. The 2009 class only care about themselves because they are immature brats who don't have ANY ounce of respect for older members. This led to people saying hurtful things behind my back, and more drama. I couldn't take it anymore and tried to get the founders involved, but things only got worse so I said screw it and left.

You have seniority confused with experience. Your experience is obsolete in some manner. The problem with the old heads sometimes is they can't understand or come to terms with the fact that some bits of old skool have no contemporary use.

Older members know how things worked in the past, the younger members should at least have the decency to consider the fact that perhaps we KNOW what we are talking about, when they might be making a mistake that could hurt the organization. I'm not confusing the terms. They go hand in hand.

Its like some people will say the Cleveland Browns were not the Old Cleveland Browns even though its the same uniform, city, and name. The organization faltered under their predecessors and its now a new organization in every regard except name.

Unless the Browns fell due to drama-related issues stemming from cliques or LACK OF RESPECT FOR OLDER MEMBERS, then that is off topic and has nothing to do with our current discussion. If you want to call me out on my arguments, fine, but get the facts straight before accusing me of being the downfall of the organization. The person to blame for that would be the former president who refused to accept anyone that didn't fit his "utopian model" of how everyone should be and act like. When he took office in the Fall of 2006, everything went downhill immediately.

 

[One to Remember]

Mr. Dias perhaps you need to take lessons from coalition governments in the parliamentary systems? Why did younot address your gripes head on or attempt to break down the cliques by created subgroups in the organization? Ultimately I feel like you did not assert yourself in a strong enough manner. Where is Otto von Bismarck when you need him? :/

Oh, are we resorting to name-calling now? Real mature. I might think you're an asshole, but I don't have to rely on that in my arguments. Plus unlike you, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that I don't even know you. Try getting to know somebody before making assumptions about who they are as a person.

Why would you think I wasan asshole? I am simply telling you what those young kids were probably thinking. What they believe does not have to be factual you know. But when dealing with the children you do need to take charge, and definitely put some bass in your voice..

 

[Dagger Dias]

Mr. Dias perhaps you need to take lessons from coalition governments in the parliamentary systems? Why did younot address your gripes head on or attempt to break down the cliques by created subgroups in the organization? Ultimately I feel like you did not assert yourself in a strong enough manner. Where is Otto von Bismarck when you need him? :/

You do have a point, perhaps I was too nice about it. I try to be nice to everyone unless they legitimately tick me off. Rarely do I ever reach that level of anger, and I usually just shrug things off. I still have a few friends within the organization and because of the respect I have for those few, I chose to just walk away rather than not be nice about it. Could things have turned around if I bluntly told them all how stupid and disrespectful they are being? Perhaps.... but I was tired of dealing with them and no longer saw how that would benefit me.

Why would you think I wasan asshole? I am simply telling you what those young kids were probably thinking. What they believe does not have to be factual you know. But when dealing with the children you do need to take charge, and definitely put some bass in your voice..

I don't think you're an asshole.... I was using that as an example to illustrate my point. You do make a valid point though that I can't always be Mr Nice Guy and sometimes I do have to take charge even if it means hurting someone's feelings. I might go back to one of their meetings this semester and try one last time to address the cliques/respect issue, be as blunt as I can about it, and let them know what I truly think of the way they acted, regardless of how I feel about any of them.

Only one of them caused me to reach a level of anger to where I fought back with hurtful remarks. I mentioned him in my previous post. The former president who put down everyone that didn't fit his "utopian model" of how everyone needed to be. He put down my lifestyle choices, my video game, my college career, and the lowest blow of all.... he even said things about my wife.... That's something you NEVER do. I fought back, unloading all the hatred towards him that had built up for over 3 years, and now that idiot knows better than to ever mess with me again.

If I can face that jerk and let him know how I truly felt about his idiotic actions that emotionally poisoned the organization, then I should be able to face the rest of them about the respect issue because it could potentially save the group that I was once proud of. I'll take that into consideration and think about having one last chat with them at a meeting, if I decide to go or just move on.

 

[One to Remember]

yeah if you felt like the organization was becoming a whole new group i would had suggesting expelling every member. You would think with you being one of the last remaining originals that you would had just became leader by default. You know parliament sometimes dismiss itself too. I think that you should go back there and make a huge speak and tell them how divergent they have gotten from the original organization and its goals. Assert yourself Dias!! In Mexico Diaz is a revolutionary you know. Take back what is yours and teach those brats something. Younger youths today born during the mid 90s are so rogue and insubordinate. I definitely know what your complaining about, i have noticed it. Oh and if you do cuss out the president make sure he doesnt call you a reactionary lol.

 

[Slyfox696]

There's an old saying, "Respect is earned, not given". One of the reasons we were always taught to respect our elders is because they had earned it. They had worked long hours for minimal pay in poor conditions. They had served in our military, fought for our country. They had raised us, made sure we grew up to be good people. Their actions were, theoretically, honorable and worthy of our respect.

No longer do we have that sense from our elders. Due to both the abundance of exposure and media, and to the fact there are so many deadbeats in the world, that respect hasn't been earned by so many people, it just causes an entire society to no longer assume respect, but assume a lack of respect.

There's a difference in respect and politeness. You should always be polite, always do the right thing. But if I met a 45 year old alum of my college, why should I respect him? What has he done for me? Maybe he's done a lot, maybe he's done nothing. But if I find out the man has been an educator for years, has gotten many kids through school that never would have made it, and genuinely cares about people, then that person has my respect. If I find out he's worked 20 years selling hamburgers at McDonalds, never missed a day of work, and put food on his family's table for 20 years, then I'll respect that man.

Respect should never be given, it should be earned. Unfortunately, there are just too many people who haven't earned it.