Kotre's Kemical Korner

Remix

Is a thin rope
Hello, I'm Kotre I. and I like drugs.

Now, don't look surprised I've never made a secret of that and I decided to make a thread just so I can talk about them. Isn't that neat?

Today I'm going to talk about

Steroids

Now we've all heard of steroids, in fact Sin Cara just got suspended for using them. But it occurs to me that most people outside of medical professions know next to nothing about them, so I figured why not tell you a little bit about them.

As much as I'd love to, I'm not going to talk about their chemistry or how they work in the body. I'm going to stick to the basics, and if you want to know I'll answer any questions you have.

With that said, the first thing that you need to know about steroids is that there are more than one type of steroids. They aren't all anabolic, and in fact the vast majority of them aren't. The two broad groups are corticosteroids (which are made up of glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids) and sex hormones. I'll talk about each in order.

Glucocorticoids

2rzfalk.gif


The image you see above is cortisol (or hydrocortisone, if you prefer), the glucocorticoid that your body produces. I'm sure you've used it for something or other in the past, and if you have, I'm sure most of you remember what it did. But either way, glucocorticoids have several effects in the body, but I'll mention just three. The first is that they increase blood sugar levels (hence the name), However they are primaraly used for their effects on imflammation and the immune system. This is because they have a potent anti-inflammatory effect (i.e. they make your rashes or swellings disappear). They also suppress your immune system, which makes them very useful in preventing organ rejection in transplant patients or for people with conditions such as Chron's Disease, where the body's immune system starts attacking itself. Within the body, cortisol is released at times of stress. Which is why you get coldsores or get ill when you're dealing when life's making you run the gauntlet.

Mineralcorticoids

2ihtevq.png


The image above is aldosterone which, like cortisol is naturally found within the body. Unlike glucocorticoids, mineralcorticoids have only one effect. They act in the kidneys to reduce the of salt and water, and increase the loss of potassium. This, in turn increases blood pressure. In addition to the pharmaceutical uses of mineralcorticoids, suppressing them can be useful as well. Doing so increases the loss of water and salt in the blood, while retaining potassium. This effect makes them very useful in patients who are suffereing from heart failure.

Female sex hormones

xdwp60.jpg
f2993a.jpg


The subtitle here is slightly misleading, as all sex hormones are to be found in both genders. However because oestrogen and progesterone (seen above) are responsible for pretty much everything for everything that makes a woman a woman from ovulation to lactation they are referred to as such. Clinically they are used as contraceptives and to treat menstrual disorders. And that's all the detail I'm going to get into because going further would result in me recapping sex education and I like chemicals, not coitus.

Androgens

35bcp54.jpg


Shown above is testosterone, which as I'm sure you know is responsible for masculine characteristics and have several clinical uses which range from treating hair loss to impotence. However, the most well known use of synthetic androgens is to build muscles. We've all heard of anabolic steroids and know why they're used, even if you don't admit to it (Just ask Luis Alvirde) . In short they aid muscle growth, and enable people to gain results in the gym that would otherwise require a lot more work. It should be noted that not everyone who does steroids ends up looking like this:

iyj38k.jpg


Again, just ask Luis Alvirde for confirmation. They simply make it possible to get better results with less work. This naturally means that if you do the same amount of work (or more, of course) you will end up getting bigger. However, if you do less work then you avoid looking like a "gashead".

It should also be noted that in responce to excess amounts of sex hormone, the body will produce less of its own and produce more opposite sex hormone. Which is why body builders take oestrogen blockers so they don't start developing breast tissue.

This concludes the first edition of Kotre's Kemical Korner. If you have any questions about steroids or any other drug, feel free to ask.
 
Wait....what? You enjoy talking about drugs and you use them? This is news to me sir Remix-athon. As WZ's resident veteran stoner (fuck you for stealing my gimmick SSC!) I obviously would approve of this thread and it's idea. Several years ago I was very, very heavy into drug experimentation of all kinds, mostly psychedelics though. If I were to try and even come up with a list of all the things I've tried, I don't think I could. A little bit before that I was into heavier shit but luckily got clean of that stuff and decided to stick to more "natural" chemicals and compounds, as well as carefully synthesized ones. I've eaten psilocybin mushrooms probably a good 100-115 times, was heavy into dextromethorphan for awhile years back and have done that 100s of times, was into MDMA (pure MDMA, aka Molly, not the stepped on, crushed herbal shit you get at most college campuses) for a bit. I've tried various alphabet soup drugs, things like 2CB, 5-MeO-DMT, etc as well. Shit I even tried some ayahausca once, but not enough to actually accomplish anything (didn't feel like vomiting for several hours in return for the trip). Surprisingly I was never that big into LSD, mainly because it's very hard to get around these parts. I've probably only done it a dozen times, max. Quite crazy though. Went through all kinds of different crazy stages during my teen years, was on pills for awhile, got sick of that (you feel like shit all the time after awhile). These days I just stick mainly to good old marijuana though, alongside tobacco, alcohol, and the occasional ecstasy consumption (though that's becoming less and less frequent these days). I would gladly eat a shitload of psilocybin if I had the dough for it and the connections, but alas, these days about the only things I can find relatively easy are marijuana and ecstasy.

For a lot of years I considered myself a bit of a psychonaut, but over the last few years I've really mellowed out. I've plenty of experience and knowledge on the field though, so this could be a fun thread. Where's Ty at? He too was once a fellow psychonaut and could supply some expertise here as well, we've had many fine PM conversations about our trips and experiences.

Shocked that you started this thread Remix. Never touched steroids for anything other than medical purposes though, so your first post wasn't very relevant to me. I'll keep my eye on this though.
 
Before I start my second entry in my Kemical Korner, I'd like to thank LSN for reminding me that the thread exists and providing me with the subject matter for todays wall of text which are...

Benzodiazepines

Now that word may be less familiar than steroids, but I assure you that you've all heard of at least one Benzodiazepine, who here's unaware of Valium? That's one of the 20 or so clinically used benzodiazepines.

What is a benzodiazepine?

Benzodiazepine_a.svg


Above is shown the generic structure of all benzodiazepines. Now I'm sure that most people reading this thread haven't got a clue what that diagram is actually showing; which is two benzene rings, one of which is fused to a ring with seven carbons and four "R-Groups". These R-Groups show where different molecules are added to change the effects the drug has inside a patient's body. However, it should be noted that Benzodiazepines are a very rare class of drugs. This is because you can add almost anything to the molecule at those points and it will still have an effect in the body, even if it is not as effective as it would be with different groups in those locations.

It should be noted that benzodiazepines remain in the body for different times. Diazepam can remain in the body for up to 48 hours, while midazolam lasts less than 6.

How do they work?

Benzodiazepines act in the brain and spine (The Central Nervous System) on receptors for a chemical called "GABA", which (for want of a better term) "slows down" the brain, making it send fewer impulses. When benzodiazepines interact with these receptors, GABA binds more strongly to them. This means that if the same amount of GABA is released, it will have a greater effect. This increased reaction to GABA has several effects, which means benzodiazepines can be used to treat a wide range of things.

Why are they used?

Benzodiazepines are used for three main reasons. To treat anxiety, to treat insomnia and as anti-seizure drugs. These will be talked about below.

Anxiety

For the purposes of this paragraph, I'm going to define anxiety in a simplified manner. Anxiety is when a person experiences the reactions associated with fear independently of what is going on around them. For their part, benzodiazepines are lisenced for (and I quote) "the short-term relief of severe anxiety" and it is not reccomended that they be used long term, as evidence for long term effectiveness is unclear and they can be addictive.

Insomnia

As with anxiety, benzodiazepines are indicated for short term use to treat insomnia. The reasons for this are twofold, they're addictive and if taken regularly their effectiveness decreases within a couple of weeks. However, if only taken occasionally (e.g. by shift workers or plane travelers) they retain their effectiveness.

Seizures

For the most part, Benzodiazepines are not used in the day to day management of conditions such as epilepsy, both because of their addictiveness and there being drugs that are simply better for the job. However, they are the first line treatment for status epilepticus (where the brain enters a persistent state of seizure).

Risks associated with benzodiazepines

Now seeing as I've mentioned addictiveness repeatedly, I think at this stage it goes without saying. However there are several other things to bear in mind when prescribing benzodiazepines, such as patients with liver problems can get put into a coma and can cross the placenta. If you want more information on this, please ask your friendly neighbourhood pharmacist.

Metabolism

30ho876.jpg


To spare you all the grizzly details of the metabolism of this class of drug (which is both confusing and tedious) I've condensed the relavent molecules and their relationships to one another into the above flow chart.

The coloured boxes are all active drugs, with the ones in blue being available for clinical use, while Nordazepam is active but is only obtained via metabolism in the body of a patient.

I think I've covered everything LSN asked for, but if anybody would like me to fill in any blanks... please, just ask :)
 
I'll start be freely admitting that I've tried a bunch of different drugs in my day. Started simply enough with Weed and Shrooms. Then acid got thrown into the mix, followed very shortly by Cocaine in college. When I found Coke, I pretty much did it every time I drank, which was anywhere from 3-6 nights a week. I was also doing about as much extasy/molly I could get my hands on. If you are careful w/Ex and only do it every so often, it can be the most fun you've ever had. I stayed in that phase for about 5 or 6 years, maybe longer, but eventually, I couldn't deal with the hangovers anymore. So, I quit doing that and really just phased out of smoking refer as well (though I wish I could still get stoned and enjoy it like I used to). In my mid-late twenties, I started messing with Vicoden and Percoset, bad fucking move that was. They start loosing their effects after a while and you move on to Roxi's and Oxy's, which I WOULD SUGGEST EVERYONE STAY AWAY FROM!!! Fuck those things man. I'm glad I got out of that game and didn't end up moving to the Horse (heroin) like a bunch of younger guys I am/was cool with. Opiates, to me anyway, are far and away, the worst most addictive drug I've ever done. Now, I pretty much don't do anything, I guess I just grew out of it. I'll get Fucked up once and a while, but nothing regularly.

Anyway, one thing REALLY REALLY trips me out. I don't know how/why anyone could get hooked on Benzo's? I've tried them a few times, and just don't get it? All that shit does to me is make me pass the fuck out. Can anyone explain to me what it is about them that gets people hooked for recreational use? I hear Benzo withdrawls are worse than opiate withdrawls, which I can only imagine SUCKS BIG TIME. So, what is it about them? What kind of High do people get? Obviously, I'm not judging anyone, I'm just curious.
 
Anyway, one thing REALLY REALLY trips me out. I don't know how/why anyone could get hooked on Benzo's? I've tried them a few times, and just don't get it? All that shit does to me is make me pass the fuck out. Can anyone explain to me what it is about them that gets people hooked for recreational use? I hear Benzo withdrawls are worse than opiate withdrawls, which I can only imagine SUCKS BIG TIME. So, what is it about them? What kind of High do people get? Obviously, I'm not judging anyone, I'm just curious.

I can answer this: Long term, daily use. Benzos, along with being addictive, are also used to treat seizures, relax muscles, and for sleep. They're generally good for a short period of time in treating anxiety and dealing with sleep issues, but long-term use has an extremely addictive property. As with any addictive medication, the longer one uses it, the more one needs. Say a doctor starts off by prescribing Xanax(Alprazolam), 1mg, twice a day. That may be effective for a few months, or even up to a year. But generally after a period of time, the medication becomes less and less effective at its current dosage. So many psychiatrists/doctors then raise the dosage of the medication, which furthers the addiction.

Everyone reacts differently to Benzos, to be honest. For most, even short term abuse, such as taking 2-3 times the recommended dosage, will cause someone to feel extreme relaxation as if all their cares in the world have melted away. Ive seen people try this for a week, run out, and go through extreme withdrawal symptoms. Other people, as you said, do pass out from them, especially when used in combination with other drugs. And some experience the exaact opposite, which is such a feeling of relaxation that it gives them energy. There's no set "way" the medication works for everyone, it's a case to case basis.

The withdrawal, from what Ive seen in patients, is terrible. Coming off them rapidly can cause seizures, ridgitity of muscles, difficulty breathing, uncontrollable tremors, and in some severe cases, death. It's easily the most effective type of medication out there in treating anxiety immediately, but with that immediate effect comes a half-life period in which the medication leaves one's system. For someone whose been on them long-term, this can have devastating effects when they come off them suddenly, even if they've taken them as prescribed. Its a slippery, dangerous slope the longer one takes them. Some people, even if weened off the medication slowly at the smallest dosage decrease, will get extremely sick anyhow. There are some people who may need the medication forever at some dosage if used long enough. There are some very good qualities in these medications, but there are some equally, sometimes worse problems that arise with them as well.
 
Anyway, one thing REALLY REALLY trips me out. I don't know how/why anyone could get hooked on Benzo's? I've tried them a few times, and just don't get it? All that shit does to me is make me pass the fuck out. Can anyone explain to me what it is about them that gets people hooked for recreational use? I hear Benzo withdrawls are worse than opiate withdrawls, which I can only imagine SUCKS BIG TIME. So, what is it about them? What kind of High do people get? Obviously, I'm not judging anyone, I'm just curious.

I'll answer this question as well, though from a different standpoint.

Benzos are addictive for the pretty much same reasons as opiates are. Because it increases the responce to GABA, the brain responds by removing receptors for GABA. This means that when use is stopped and the brain's responce to GABA returns to normal there will be a smaller reaction to it due to there being fewer receptors. This smaller responce to GABA means that all of the things that Benzos can be used to treat can happen in responce to it not being there.

A safer example of this that you can (but probably shouldn't) try at home is to use nasal decongestants to just widen the airways when you don't need to take them. do that too often and when you don't take them your nose will be congested because receptors will have been removed to "normalise" the response to it.
 
Ah, benzodiazepines. Interesting family of drugs for both medical and recreational purposes and an increasingly popular one in the last twenty years thanks to more and more pharmaceuticals being manufactured and distributed in mass quantities. I was never heavy into them like I was other families of chemicals and compounds, but I did quite a bit of experimenting with Ambien, Xanax, Klonopins, Ativan, Seresta, Lunesta, all sorts of stuff like this is pretty widely available in any major northeastern city to anyone with minimal street drug connections. Not to mention how frequently shit like Ambien and Xanax are prescribed to people who often times don't even really need them. Anything for a buck for the pharmaceutical companies though, right? Same racket with ADD/ADHD drugs. Anyways, they do have their pluses. Highly hypnotic but still somewhat dissociative, heavy body high similar almost in nature to the effects of an opiate high but less relaxing and a bit more alert. They can be fun in moderation, but using them for an extended period of time can lead to nothing but bad things from my experiences myself and from friends and family. I had a few fun times with Xanax but then had one really bad experience and haven't messed with them since, though that was probably because I drank entirely too much alcohol with them, which those who have dranken and eaten Xanax know creates a ridiculous synergy of total sedation and intoxication which can be fun, but also led me to a violent mood swing and panic attack. Ironically enough there's a chance I might wind up prescribed to Xanax pretty soon for medical purposes for what I've come to realize has been untreated social anxiety disorder for the last decade of my life, so I suppose this is a topic I'll be revisiting again shortly. Not sure I want to experiment recreationally with it again though. Ambien is a curious drug that I was into for a bit and can produce some of the most absurd states of near hallucinatory bliss at times in heavy doses, leading to the wonderful creation of the "Ambien Walrus" character among Ambien users to describe a metaphorical entity that seems to take over your body under Ambien's influence and make you do and say things you absolutely normally would never do, and sometimes often make no sense whatsoever in retrospect the next morning. I'm talking call every girl you ever dated at 2AM, try to give yourself a hair-cut, get into a fight with a door kind of insanity. Really loosens one inhibitions from my experiences in a dramatic way that can be fun to experiment with, but again it's not something I'd recommend for long-term recreational purposes. Medicinally I don't think I'd recommend it either since you can get much the same drowsing effect from over the counter diphenhydramine pills for much cheaper and with far less danger of mental or physical addiction over time.

Fun topic. I'll chime in whenever the topic is relevant to my own experiences as a psychonaut.
 
*blows dust off thread*

It's been a while, but I've got some time, so I'm going to post in it. Today we're going to be talking about...

Morphine, Diamorphine and Codeine

Diamorphine is the chemical name for Heroin, if you weren't aware. I'll explain why later. There are a lot more opiates than those three, but at that point the pharmacology gets more complex and I don't want to want to alienate anyone. If you have some more specific questions about anything from methadone to fentanyl, ask away.

Why those three?

They best illustrate the simplest pharmacology of opiods - a class of drugs which come from or have similar activity in the body to natural chemicals obtained from the latex of the opium poppy. Of the three relevant to this post, morphine is the standard against which all other opioids are judged, codeine is weaker and diamorphine is stronger.

How so?

To answer this question I'm going to need the aid of a few diagrams.

Morphin_-_Morphine.svg


This is the chemical structure of morphine, the archetypal opioid. It effectively binds to opiod receptors throughout the body, most notably in the lungs (which is what causes people who overdose on opioids to stop breathing) and brain. The brain is where the most well known effects take place, dulling pain, getting you high and causing addiction. I'm not going to go into the biochemical pathways here though.

Codein_-_Codeine.svg


This is codeine. As you can see, the two drugs look very similar. In fact there is exactly one difference. Codeine has a methyl (CH3) group on, while morphine does not. However, this is a key difference as Codeine is only about 10% as strong as morphine. This is because codeine itself has no activity. That methyl group prevents it from binding to the various opioid receptors throughout the body. However, while it is within the body it can be converted into morphine giving it some activity (the reduced level is because it is only slowly converted, meaning some will be removed from the body before it is all converted).

Heroin_-_Heroine.svg


As you can probably guess, this is diamorphine. The name itself comes from diacetylmorphine because that's exactly what it is. Morphine with two acetyl groups bolted on. If you were paying attention earlier, you might be wondering why diamorphine is stronger than morphine if - just like codeine - it shouldn't be able to bind to opioid receptors. The answer is that it can't, however it is rapidly converted into forms that can, like morphine itself. The reason for its increased strength is that the self same groups that render it inactive, enable it to cross the blood brain barrier far more easily than morphine can and once it has, it is very rapidly converted into these active forms.

Essentially, Heroin is a morphine delivery system for the brain.

Other than the obvious, what are they used for

Assuming "as painkillers" falls under the obvious, the answer is very little. Codeine can be sold as a cough suppressant and to treat diarrhoea. Kaolin (a type of clay) and morphine can be used to treat the latter as well. However, they're not recommended for obvious reasons.
 

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