Kiryas Joel - A Curious Case

[IrishCanadian25]

I was thumbing through some Wikipedia pages regarding recent census data, and I was particularly interested in some of the information involving the extreme highs and lows of per capita incomes and poverty rates across the United Stated. I found that while my area in Northern NJ boasts several of the top 100 in the nation, only 35 minutes away from me is the municipality listed as "Poorest Place in the United States."

Welcome to Kiryas Joel, NY.

I learned that Kiryas Joel is a Hasidic Jewish Community near Monroe and Woodbury, NY. The town has a decent sized population - 13,138 and growing - with a per capita income of $4,355. More than 66% of residents live below the poverty line, and more than 40% receive food stamps.

Another facinating peice to the "KJ" puzzle is the median age of the 13,138 residents - 15.0 years old. That means that more than half the population cannot even legally drive. The women of KJ do not use birth control as a result of religious beliefs. No pill, no condom. The women marry young, and after they have their 2nd child, they do not return to work. The average household is 6 people, though 8-10 is fairly common.

Kiryas Joel has a great deal of friction with local communities. With such a high percentage of the population on welfare and food stamps due to the high poverty rate, and the exponential population growth due to woman bearing children young and often, the local municipalities' tax dollars go in large part to the exclusive residents of KJ.

Because of the sheer size of the families (the average household here has six people, but it is not uncommon for couples to have 8 or 10 children), and because a vast majority of households subsist on only one salary, 62 percent of the local families live below poverty level and rely heavily on public assistance [government welfare], which is another sore point among those who live in neighboring communities.

The local language is Yiddish, and many of the residents don't speak English at all. KJ also has the highest percentage of people who indicated on the census a Hungarian Heritage.

There were 2,229 households out of which 79.5% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 93.2% were married couples living together, 1.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 4.1% were non-families. 2.8% of all households were made up of individuals and 2.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 5.74 and the average family size was 5.84. In the village the population was spread out with 57.5% under the age of 18, 17.2% from 18 to 24, 16.5% from 25 to 44, 7.2% from 45 to 64, and 1.6% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 15 years. For every 100 females there were 116.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 118.0 males.

Here's the interesting debate. KJ school district was once deemed by the Supreme Court as being in violation of the first ammendment because the cirriculum only accomodated the Jewish faith. The rapid growth of the population makes local residents feel that the village of Kiryas Joel is encroaching on them. Concern about dwindling local property values resulting from the high poverty levels in KJ is a major concern.

Where do we draw the line as it pertains to religious freedom and suburban sprawl / economic sustainability? Is it right for the local municipalities to pay higher taxes for a community such as KJ, which is voluntarilly poor?

 

[Барбоса]

It is very difficult to criticise a religious group when I know little or nothing about them. It could just be that that community is currently going through an anomalous boom in population due to certain demographic changes. It is certainly small enough that to be affected in such a way.

However, there is something fishy about these guys. Government protection of a religious freedom is all very well until someone starts to take advantage of it. They sound like what we would call "dole-scroungers." Large numbers of them live on government handouts rather than get a job. You should only be receiving government handouts if you are either actively seeking work or physically unable to do so.

Perhaps in the past this community was self-sufficient and able to look after itself without much government help, but when they are prospering whilst damaging their neighbours then they become a problem although I doubt that anything can be done about it

 

[LigerBomb]

To be sure, people on the fringes of any standard societal bell curve will always have the hardest time being brought into the fold of any society. That said these outliers should be afforded some assistance with such a process. That seems to be the case here, as in good faith the non-Hasidic community has tried to be acclimating.
Clearly however at this point adjustments are in dire order. Laws and rules should be enacted that set in motion progressive changes to the area. Obviously these rules needed to be applied to the total population and not towards a specific religious group, likewise these rules should go into effect gradually and perhaps after a 3-5 years to give people time to adjust accordingly, or decide that since these new laws aren't for them perhaps it's time they consider moving.

 

[Razor]

Where do we draw the line as it pertains to religious freedom and suburban sprawl / economic sustainability?

There is no limit to religious freedom in the United States. No law can be passed down to limit religious freedom by the United States Congress, as outlined in one of the Amendments that I can't remember. 1st, probably.

The simple fact of the matter is that we can't go in and tell these people they can't be poor if that is how their religious views tell them to live. If a sect of Catholics want to live in caves, then the United States Congress has no right to tell them no.

We give them food stamps because without them, their children couldn't eat. We can't pass a law telling them to stop procreating, can we?

Is it right for the local municipalities to pay higher taxes for a community such as KJ, which is voluntarilly poor?[/B]

It's what taxes are used for.

I mean, the United States is seen as a melting pot of individuals from all types of religions and cultural values.

That's why we have Muslims alongside Jews alongside Christians alongside Buddhists, that's we don't have a national language. That's why our Constitution expressly prohibits laws against religious practices or ethnic backgrounds.

Sorry, but the Constitution gives these Hassidic Jews the express right to live as they want. We can't do anything to stop them, unless you want to start curtailing everyone's reproductive rights and limit us to a set number of children.

You might get away with a limit to Food Stamps or Social Aid. It'll get messy, but the argument can be made that we shouldn't keep sinking money into single families that keep sucking up tax payer dollars. Put a cap on it, and the problem is at least theoretically solved.