Is WWE Delusional?

[bk555]

A lot of reports on the main WZ site have indicated that WWE is citing the NFL's Monday Night Football as its competition for Raw. Personally, I'm a little surprised that WWE would do this. I can't even call it ambitious for WWE to view ESPN and the NFL as competition because quite frankly they have no shot.

Even in the face of adversity in what is being deemed a "PR Nightmare" of a week for the NFL, they are still a Multi-Billion Dollar industry with a rock-solid fanbase and on top of that Monday Night Football draws the best ratings of the Weekend for the NFL and the best ratings for ESPN as well. WWE on the other hand is struggling as we all know. Sure Brock Lesnar is must-see TV to a lot of fans including myself, but I'm sure that ESPN doesn't even have WWE in its radar for competition.

Is ESPN's MNF really competition for WWE?

Now I firmly believe that competition drives ratings but I primarily mean in terms of a reasonable and attainable viewership. WWE is so far behind the NFL in terms of popularity that it seems silly to construct a show around Monday Night Football or to even consider them real competition because they will always be ahead in my opinion.

 

[Mudlup50]

Well how many people on this site alone complain saying the Attitude Era was better because the WWE had competition? I've read it...a lot, to save the effort of counting that high. The E has a goal, they wanna be on the playing field level with MNF, that's a great thing, it should encourage them to keep producing great Raws(or for the people hating on Raw recently, to improve Raw). Yea they're aiming too high but as the saying goes shoot for the moon cuz if you miss you'll land amount the stars? Something like that I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

In Vince's mind it all adds up, we just don't see it that way..is he delusional, probably but we're all fans who tune in regularly to see his work so they must be doing something right.

Let them think like this, if it means more Lesnar, we win. If it means better writing, we win. I don't see the problem personally just so long as they don't start a direct war with the NFL

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I am interested in Raw and MNF. I would guess that a vast percentage of Raw's audience also has some interest in MNF. They are on at the same time. Raw is therefore competing with MNF to keep their audience. Thus therefore it is unto for to unto be there that it is reasonable to say that MNF is Raw's competition.

They are not saying that they are at near or will ever be near MNF's level but they do have to compete with MNF for fans and advertising.

 

[Pedigree1]

I actually record both MNF and Raw! Fantasy Football always gets me! Of Course MNF is Raws competition and its the only competition for Raw.. But WWE is not saying they can beat MNF they are just simply acknowledging their own competition.. Smart move on their part..

Look as long its football season MNF will always draw the bigger ratings and WWE knows that.. Football is King here in America competition is very good!

 

[Navi]

The WWE isn't delusional, Vince has gone effing senile. I suppose because he once owned the XFL, that miserable failure of a football league, now the WWE and the XFL are somehow the same thing.

RAW and the NFL will never be in competition with each other. A lot of football fans don't ever watch RAW even in the off season, and there are wrestling fans like myself who never watch the NFL. So there is enough viewers around to keep everyone happy.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

Guys. This is how business works. The NFL is competition for WWE because it is. The NFL is huge and has billions and billions more then the WWE, but the fact is that a lot of WWE fans are also NFL fans, and because of this, probably would choose Monday Night Football over RAW. I don't know if it's "smart" to say come back at halftime, but it's not a bad move. Tons of networks due the same thing during the Super Bowl, because that's a competitor to almost everything that's on TV. WWE isn't looking to take out the NFL or outdraw them. They're simply looking to keep their fans on their show.

You can look at this in kind of a similar way to the way people look at WWE and TNA. TNA is a competitor of WWE, but they are not necessarily competitive with WWE. Most TNA fans are WWE fans and would choose WWE. Similar.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

WWE just likes something on which to blame crap ratings for crap shows.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Personally, I don't give a crap about Monday Night Football. I never have and probably never will. I may be in the minority, but I just don't give the furry crack of a rat's behind about football in any way, shape or form. I've always found it to be extremely tedious and boring, not knocking anyone who feels differently whatsoever but it's just the way I feel about it.

As for WWE being delusional, how is it delusional exactly for acknowledging the fact that Monday Night Football is obvious ratings competition? All you have to do is to be able to do simple mathematics as Raw's ratings on television and social media take big hits during the last 3 months or so of the year when Monday Night Football airs. Does the NFL consider Raw to be competition? Probably not seeing as how, factoring in DVR viewership, Raw draws only about half of what MNF does on what MNF would view as a very slow night with an uninteresting game. Every show is in competition with each other, it's just that competition becomes more talked about when it comes to shows that target that males 18-49 demographic that makes up the majority of the viewership.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

On a funny side note, living in the uk where we don't give a about american rugby I just now realized what all that halftime stuff was about.

It was indeed a very confusing angle for whoever isn't american and stuff.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

WWE isn't delusional but Vince is...

Vince has this notion that he is the king of an "entertainment empire" rather than a wrestling promotion with some side-projects. It's not new, he's had it for a long time but the reality is everything he has touched outside of his core business basically turns to shit. WBF, XFL, WWE films in the main have not performed as hoped or bombed, this is ironic considering his "we make movies" bravado in Beyond the Mat.

It's actually gotten to the point where Vince's focus has been on other stuff for so long that he seems to have lost his touch, forgotten how to be a good wrestling promoter. He's more worried about Cena shirts than Cena matches. That is dangerous.

While Hunter is there at least you know the wrestling side is being "looked after well" but Vince could easily decide one day "it's not working" and try to move him off that project.

In terms of MNF it's not competition because Wrestling is a unique product when pitched right, it's how it got 9m viewers+ during the Monday Night Wars... but when Wrestling is presented as a soap opera as WWE does now then the competition isn't Monday Night Football, but Days of Our Lives, Eastenders and other soaps... the delusion is that the current product is anything else than a male driven soap set in a wrestling promotion.

If WWE is to compete with true entertainment, MNF or the like it has to be a Wrestling promotion that has all the razzmatazz (not even heard that word for years) but a legit sporting bias.

 

[TheJF]

On a funny side note, living in the uk where we don't give a about american rugby I just now realized what all that halftime stuff was about.

It was indeed a very confusing angle for whoever isn't american and stuff.

To say that 'the UK' doesn't care for NFL is a lie, is it as popular as football and/or cricket? Probably not, but the fact that there are probably 7/8 games of NFL on tv per week, as well as the fact that the NFL London games do so well means that you can't say nobody cares.

Back to the OP, of course MNF is a competitor to WWE Raw. Its on TV at the same time, and probably draws a lot of WWE fans over to watch, therefore it has to be considered competition.

However if WWE genuinely believe they can get more viewing figures than MNF and outdraw the NFL then, yes, yes the WWE are delusional.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

To say that 'the UK' doesn't care for NFL is a lie, is it as popular as football and/or cricket? Probably not, but the fact that there are probably 7/8 games of NFL on tv per week, as well as the fact that the NFL London games do so well means that you can't say nobody cares.

Well it surely has an audience, but it's not a mainstream one.
I'm not attacking nfl, simply stating that it is a quite obscure reference for any non-american.
I mean a lot of people like Neutral Milk Hotel but I can't see Jhon Cena shouting "I am the king of carrot flowers!"

 

[Hit with Dirty Deeds]

I live in England too and whilst I don't get the fuss about NFL being competition seeing as they are two separate entities. I do understand that since WWE considered itself an entertainment show as if it was ABOVE wrestling then any show that is on at the same tine is competition

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

I'm surprised at how few people understand the concept of competition.

A lot of people seem to think you can only compete for an audience within your genre.

Incorrect.

For WWE, competition is any programme - ANY programme - that is aired at the same time as Raw/Smackdown/Main Event/ppvs

For TNA, it is any programme that airs the same time as Impact or ppvs.

They are competing at a genre level against each other (as one sides as that may seem at the moment) but competing for viewers - for a market share of the audience, ie ratings - with other programmes, of which Monday Night Football is one.

So no, the WWE is not delusional. They've just finally woken up.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I'm surprised at how few people understand the concept of competition.

A lot of people seem to think you can only compete for an audience within your genre.

Incorrect.

For WWE, competition is any programme - ANY programme - that is aired at the same time as Raw/Smackdown/Main Event/ppvs

For TNA, it is any programme that airs the same time as Impact or ppvs.

They are competing at a genre level against each other (as one sides as that may seem at the moment) but competing for viewers - for a market share of the audience, ie ratings - with other programmes, of which Monday Night Football is one.

So no, the WWE is not delusional. They've just finally woken up.

Exactly this.

The Monday Night Wars weren't so intense just because it was two wrestling promotions in the same genre, but because they were on at the EXACT same time slot.

Vince didn't mind WCW being around on Saturday Night, prior to Nitro.

Any show that goes head to head with RAW, especially a LIVE sporting event should be considered competition.

 

[JJohns]

What WWE needs to compete with MNF is a viable number 2 promotion to nip at it's heels. Look at the WWF during the Attitude Era. Yes, it was edgy, but it was also amongst the most creative that McMahon's wrestling empire has ever been.

Vince needs to take more of a backseat, and possibly finally retire (agree or disagree, he deserves it) and allow more wrestling based and creative minds to take over.

 

[Garfan]

What WWE needs to compete with MNF is a viable number 2 promotion to nip at it's heels. Look at the WWF during the Attitude Era. Yes, it was edgy, but it was also amongst the most creative that McMahon's wrestling empire has ever been.

Vince needs to take more of a backseat, and possibly finally retire (agree or disagree, he deserves it) and allow more wrestling based and creative minds to take over.

Vince Russo was behind a lot of that and a lot of it isn't well remembered

 

[scomvp316]

WWE is the biggest hypocrite in all of entertainment
They say they don't compete with UFC because UFC is a real sport and WWE is entertainment but the last time I checked NFL is a real sport
Even though the UFC's PPV Buyrates have slipped as much as 20% they still average a little over 400,000 buys which is still better than WWE's average
Attendance in the same venue within 4 months of one another UFC hasn't given away tickets but WWE averages 10% giveaways
The one area VKM has the advantage is in their competing networks UFC Fight Pass is a rip off and WWEN for value crushes them
Lets not forget VKM lives in the 80's and still strongly believes that the current product should follow the 80's module
According to Nielsen nearly 85% of new programming over the last five years is TV-14 compared to in the 80's there was less than 5%
So of course WWE is delusional
On most trends VKM is way behind and always has been
I guess with no direct wrestling competition there are no ideas he can steal and pass it as his creation Yes I know alot of entertainment companies copy one another but all of them don't come out and say its an original concept either!

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

One night a week for approximately 3 months out of the year, the WWE competes with the NFL for viewers. The NFL, on the other hand, is carrying about its schedule, and probably feels like this competition is incidental. It competes with the WWE the same way they probably feel like they compete with Masterpiece Theater.

 

[FlairFan2003]

A lot of reports on the main WZ site have indicated that WWE is citing the NFL's Monday Night Football as its competition for Raw. Personally, I'm a little surprised that WWE would do this. I can't even call it ambitious for WWE to view ESPN and the NFL as competition because quite frankly they have no shot.

Even in the face of adversity in what is being deemed a "PR Nightmare" of a week for the NFL, they are still a Multi-Billion Dollar industry with a rock-solid fanbase and on top of that Monday Night Football draws the best ratings of the Weekend for the NFL and the best ratings for ESPN as well. WWE on the other hand is struggling as we all know. Sure Brock Lesnar is must-see TV to a lot of fans including myself, but I'm sure that ESPN doesn't even have WWE in its radar for competition.

Is ESPN's MNF really competition for WWE?

Now I firmly believe that competition drives ratings but I primarily mean in terms of a reasonable and attainable viewership. WWE is so far behind the NFL in terms of popularity that it seems silly to construct a show around Monday Night Football or to even consider them real competition because they will always be ahead in my opinion.

Is the NFL competition for WWE in terms of total viewership ? Not anymore, although if you go back to the 1998-99 years combined ratings for RAW & Nitro were in the 10 range every week, which was EXTREMELY HIGH for cable TV and very competitive with the Top 10 - Top20 shows overall on broadcast TV. There were article in entertainment news such as TV Guide & Entertainment Weekly Magazine stating that the wrestling audience was actually to blame for the decline in MNF Ratings at the time.

Although WWE audience today is a fraction of what the total RAW-Nitro audience was at that time (actually much smaller than just the RAW share from back then) the core demographic WWE aims at which is tweens & teens, basically the 10-20 year old range, mostly junior high age kids and some before that age group and some after through high school, this demographic is a major component to MNF ratings as well and NFL viewership in general. NFL does much better in that demo than MLB & NBA do among the other most popular national pro sports. Since that is the key demo almost all WWE programming is aimed at it makes sense they would worry, especially now with their over all numbers on the soft side compared to 10 years ago, that they would worry about the NFL in fringing on that group.

 

[FlairFan2003]

What WWE needs to compete with MNF is a viable number 2 promotion to nip at it's heels. Look at the WWF during the Attitude Era. Yes, it was edgy, but it was also amongst the most creative that McMahon's wrestling empire has ever been.

Vince needs to take more of a backseat, and possibly finally retire (agree or disagree, he deserves it) and allow more wrestling based and creative minds to take over.

If VKM retires and HHH takes over you wont see a return to the Attitude Era, you'll see a return to a more traditional, old school NWA style of programming, that's where his affinity is, and I shows in the direction of the NXT product which is well scripted but has an "old school" booking feel to it.

 

[FlairFan2003]

WWE isn't delusional but Vince is...

Vince has this notion that he is the king of an "entertainment empire" rather than a wrestling promotion with some side-projects. It's not new, he's had it for a long time but the reality is everything he has touched outside of his core business basically turns to shit. WBF, XFL, WWE films in the main have not performed as hoped or bombed, this is ironic considering his "we make movies" bravado in Beyond the Mat.

It's actually gotten to the point where Vince's focus has been on other stuff for so long that he seems to have lost his touch, forgotten how to be a good wrestling promoter. He's more worried about Cena shirts than Cena matches. That is dangerous.

While Hunter is there at least you know the wrestling side is being "looked after well" but Vince could easily decide one day "it's not working" and try to move him off that project.

In terms of MNF it's not competition because Wrestling is a unique product when pitched right, it's how it got 9m viewers+ during the Monday Night Wars... but when Wrestling is presented as a soap opera as WWE does now then the competition isn't Monday Night Football, but Days of Our Lives, Eastenders and other soaps... the delusion is that the current product is anything else than a male driven soap set in a wrestling promotion.

If WWE is to compete with true entertainment, MNF or the like it has to be a Wrestling promotion that has all the razzmatazz (not even heard that word for years) but a legit sporting bias.

Again it's not about total viewers here...it's the teen age demographic that the NFL does well in that happens to be the target demo of WWE. Although back in the late 90s it was the The NFL & MNF that were complaining about their ratings sliding due to the popularity of Monday Night Wrestling (RAW & Nitro combined). Back then the two shows were combining for 10-11 million viewers each week, and it was definitely presented as a soap opera back then, heavy on promos skits, shocking out of this world plot twists, we had HHH drugging Stephanie to marry her, Steph being kidnapped by Undertaker' army of the dead, we had Vince drugging Linda and having an affair with Trish, we had both Vince & Eric Bischoff paying evil bosses, we had the excitement of Goldberg's Streak, Flair's son turning on him to side with the NWO, Randy Savage as vengeful lunatic, we had the comedy of both Chris Jericho I WCW & Mick Foley in WWE, the late 90s was soap opera style presentation at it's most insane by both promotions.

Saying that wrestling presented as a soap opera makes its competition Days Of Ou Lives is ludicrous. Daytime soaps play mostly to a female demographic 25 and over. Wrestling plays largely to a male demo that skews younger.

Wrestling is soap opera...always has been and always will be. During the 1980s the whole reason people watched for the soap opera aspect. Was Hogan vs Andre a great match ? No, but it was epic due to the soap opera like storylines between the characters. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes was an epic 80s feud, yes, there were some really entertaining matches in there but wrestling fans don't watch to see matches, they watch to see the storyline develop and are enthralled by the twists and turns. No one ever tuned in randomly to see Flair-Rhodes just because they thought it would be a good match, fans tuned in to watch them wrestle because they were invested in the SOAP OPERA STORYLINE and wanted to see a conclusion. In a movie the conclusion is typically the final showdown between the hero & villain, but the interest in the showdown comes from the storyline of the movie itself. No one cares about James Bond fighting some random dude in a plane, but they care when they’ve been watching the last 90 minutes of that random dude kill innocent people and try to destroy the world.

Rock-Austin produced some great matches. No one tuned in because they expected a great match, they tuned in because they were invested in the soap opera like storyline and wanted to see who would win.

One of the all time best televised matches Brett Hart ever wrestled was on Nitro against Van Hammer. Of course, Van was mostly a failed gimmick and mid card (at best) wrestler no one cared about. The individual match was excellent, ratings for it tanked however, even though most of RAW during the bout was promos and in ring skits. Fact was those promos & in ring skits on RAW were advancing the soap opera storylines we were already invested in. There was no storyline between Van & Brett, no history, and fans tuned out in droves. They missed a great match, but fact is without the soap opera like storyline we don’t care about the match.


Wrestling has always been a soap opera and always will...it's just a soap opera that targets the tween & teen demo, junior high age kids and little younger & a little older, mostly male, which coincidently is major part of the NFL demo.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It may have been presented to resemble a soap opera but wasn't it was still Wrestling... today's product isn't. It's more about the drama, the angles and sometimes there is a match to drive that. The focus is not about the action anymore or even the live events. It's about the storyline... The Bella story is a prime example, where the actual payoff of any match in wrestling terms is NEVER going to be good, but WWE think we should be more englaged with that story than caring about wrestling matches...

When WWE does it right, like the Rock Austin feuds then it is the best of a "real" sport rivalries where there is an athletic display you know people want to see, with a "take" through a storyline to make the tension and drama more but the end product is a killer MATCH. Skits and promos are a vehicle to drive the match rather than the other way round which WWE does today which is where the comparison to other soaps set in. It isn't wrestling any more but as I said a Soap set in a wrestling show... that's a big difference and regardless of demographics, it's a conscious choice Vince has made.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

It may have been presented to resemble a soap opera but wasn't it was still Wrestling... today's product isn't. It's more about the drama, the angles and sometimes there is a match to drive that. The focus is not about the action anymore or even the live events. It's about the storyline... The Bella story is a prime example, where the actual payoff of any match in wrestling terms is NEVER going to be good, but WWE think we should be more englaged with that story than caring about wrestling matches...

When WWE does it right, like the Rock Austin feuds then it is the best of a "real" sport rivalries where there is an athletic display you know people want to see, with a "take" through a storyline to make the tension and drama more but the end product is a killer MATCH. Skits and promos are a vehicle to drive the match rather than the other way round which WWE does today which is where the comparison to other soaps set in. It isn't wrestling any more but as I said a Soap set in a wrestling show... that's a big difference and regardless of demographics, it's a conscious choice Vince has made.

I've seen today's product described as not a wrestling show but a "reality show about a wrestling show". Jim Cornette goes further and describes it as "not pro-wrestling but a parody of pro-wrestling".

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It is competition. Everything on TV at the same time as WWE is their competition. That's why it's such an idiotic thing to say when people say "WWE needs more competition". No, right now they have more than ever. With streaming, less millenials owning a TV, more channels, etc. USA doesn't care that WWE is specifically the highest rated wrestling show, they need to be the highest rated show period.

As for all the ridiculous "today's product isn't about wrestling"....do you even watch the show? Yes, it's story oriented (how wrestling has actually always been). There is more wrestling, and BETTER wrestling on the show weekly now than there has been at any other time except maybe early 2000s Smackdown. I don't care what Jim Cornette says. He's a bitter, delusional, angry old man.