Is Vince & The WWE playing us?

[Viola Moonlight]

I am one of those people that watch wrestling not only due to the fact that I love the profession so much that I wonder hope to make it through the glass ceiling into the WWE, but I like to analytically disect each little thing that happens during the whole show. One thing that I have noticed, which many others have also done... is the crowd's reactions to the face & the heels. Back in the day, the audiences where more inclined to cheer for the faces & boo the heels. VERY RARELY, did the crowd opt for the heel as their favourite of the match. Nowadays, it seems that the face antics are going downhill but still achieve something with the audience. We now get the crowds that seem to be split in the middle or leaning more in cheering the heels.

However, when I heard of the CM Punk heel turn against Jeff Hardy... something sparked in my mind. In this feud, you have the fan favourite Jeff Hardy playing the face role whom has had a history of taking drugs, having a no-care attitude to life & has no discipline. On the heel side, is CM Punk. The man is strict on his lifestyle, straight-edge & preaches to the people about making the right choices in life. Normally, the two would be switched around as the characters mimicks the other fan status alignment.

I would like to also point out before I ask the main question for discussion that there have been similar persona's to Punk's over the years like Kurt Angle & JBL whom are considered to be the "hero" of the roster. However, these characters like Angle's & JBL's have been corrupted whereas Punk is all-natural face concerning characters.

So centre of questioning for this discussion... is the WWE finally listening to the fans by utilising the inclination for the audience to cheer for the heels & pit those whom would normally have face charactistics into the heel scene so the fans can cheer for the right persona's? In other words, with heels being cheered, the WWE are using them to get the "right' messages across to the audience that supports them. Or am I looking too far into it?

 

[FoleyIsGod]

Cm Punk's best work was as a heel in ROH.

It was only right him and Hardy fueded, what with Hardy's well publicised suspensions.

The fans do not like being preached to or told what to do. Look back to the days of the old ECW. Foley did his anti hardcore promos and he was still getting cheered, even though in his early ones, he tore the ECW fans a new butthole by calling them bloodythirsty and sick etc.

Or even Stone Cold, he was playing a heel character and he was getting cheered. Why? Probably the fact he was doing what everybody in the World wants to do, which is kicking the crap out of their bosses.

Wrestling is about suspending disbeliief, ie "we" know its fixed, but we actas though its not. That is the magic of wrestling. And with Punks comments,they could actually be real, verging on shoot. Who knows.

 

[unique.enigma.666]

I think what makes Punk gaining heat from the crowd is that its as if him saying what he says comes across as 'I'm straightedge and I'm better than you!' I think we're all equal but for someone to say that would piss a lot of people off, I don't however because I'm old enough to know that its wrestling and kayfabe bar Punk's beliefs outside of WWE, but what makes or made Jeff the hero of the story was the fact that he over-came them problems in the past, he didn't speak down to the fans or anything, so morally yes Punk is right in saying what he says but its the way it comes across that makes him hated, added onto the fact that he went against the top face in wrestling (in my opinion that is), by attacking him and berating him and such. They had an amazing rivarly which is a feud of the year candidate. I just can't wait for this weeks SD to see how they'll build up Punk/Taker.

 

[davidslayer]

Hey guys, I get where your coming from thread poster..

I have been 'upset' about this for months, people like john cena and others that are supposed to be "Childrens role models".. Are like the worst role models ever, I mean we have tons and tons of pictures on wrestlezone of john cena, chris jericho, the divas, all drunk off their dumb asses.. and now rey busted, we dont know who to believe, some kind of role models for kids these people are..

when i think of role models in the wwe now, i do think of cm punk, because i know, he doesnt mean what he says, since obviously, it is just for the ones supporting jeff in their feud.. who is gone now.. but yeah, i hate smoking and drinking as well... And another role model/good influence, is jerry lawler, he said he's never drank either... well thats all i got for now..

 

[samboisdead]

Honestly I think the problem is most heels nowdays want to be the next Austin so instead of going all out heel they try to be cool heels and get fans to cheer for them on purpose. Punk while he is young is from the old school of wrestling and I just think he understands the phsycology..excuse me if I spelled that wrong...of a heel and should get alot of credit for what is happening. Chris Jericho and Edge are about the only other guys on the WWE roster that I think really get it. Orton is getting there but you can tell he still really wants to be cheered. Anyway I dont give the WWE that much credit I belive Punk probably went to them with this and his mannerisms, interviews, and even his ringwork have changed as a heel and that is what is making people boo him. Hardy gets some credit to as he is one of the biggest faces ever for whatever reason, but yea I dont think the WWE writers are smart enough to get this one of the boys had to give them this idea.

 

[samboisdead]

Hey guys, I get where your coming from thread poster..

I have been 'upset' about this for months, people like john cena and others that are supposed to be "Childrens role models".. Are like the worst role models ever, I mean we have tons and tons of pictures on wrestlezone of john cena, chris jericho, the divas, all drunk off their dumb asses.. and now rey busted, we dont know who to believe, some kind of role models for kids these people are..

when i think of role models in the wwe now, i do think of cm punk, because i know, he doesnt mean what he says, since obviously, it is just for the ones supporting jeff in their feud.. who is gone now.. but yeah, i hate smoking and drinking as well... And another role model/good influence, is jerry lawler, he said he's never drank either... well thats all i got for now..

All those guys you mentioned are over 21 and legally allowed to drink and have fun. They are celebritys so of course pictures are going to show up. Are they suposed to just quit doing things they enjoy just because they are famous. I hate to tell you but I bet the president drinks. Sounds like some freedom hating to me.

 

[davidslayer]

All those guys you mentioned are over 21 and legally allowed to drink and have fun. They are celebritys so of course pictures are going to show up. Are they suposed to just quit doing things they enjoy just because they are famous. I hate to tell you but I bet the president drinks. Sounds like some freedom hating to me.

call it what you want.. i dont think you really want to talk politics, i know most of you, won't agree with me. no ones ever liked my opinion anyway.. and i think i know, how old these people are, but its still irony... and oh yeah killing their bodys is so much fun.. and then taking pain killers later on...
but maybe if you thought of this: if wrestlers didnt drink and then do other stupid things, maybe some of the new generation could reach the age of 85..
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i'm sure obama drinks.. thats why hes so stupid, and a con man for the new world order..

 

[The Dewbliners]

Getting back on topic here:

Of course Vinnie Mac is playing us. Hell, that's the point of his job as a promoter! As far as making Punk the heel in his feud, it kinda makes sense, given his "I'm better than you" speeches. Anytime he pops up on my TV, I simply reach for another beer, and light up another smoke. I know, that sounds childish, but I'm kinda like Pavlovs dog, in that when somebody says "Don't do that", I instantly do the opposite.

Making Hardy the face does kinda make sense as well. It tells the kids that, if you try hard enough, you can beat any addiction you want to. How does that not make sense? Who wouldn't want to teach their kids, "You really shouldn't do drugs, but if you do, you can always work hard to overcome that"? I'm a shining example of this. I used to pop ecstasy, and drop acid, on an almost daily basis. I went off and overcame my addiction, and have been a contributing member of society since. I actually respect Hardy for being able to overcome meth, before it claimed his life.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

This mentality of cheering the Anti-Hero really started back with Austin vs Bret Hart, when those two actually switched roles and Hart became the Heel was Austin became the Anti-Hero (Face) .... so the concept isn't really anything new. And that transpired back in 1997. So, you are about 12 years too late on that theory.

However, yes they are still doing it to a degree today. With wrestlers like CM Punk and Chris Jericho being the goody-goody two shoe Heels. However, we really aren't seeing the Anti-Hero used in the same degree today that he was back in Austin's day. Basically, what I see is Modern-Day Babyfaces taking on Goody Two-Shoe Heels.

I do not see people of traditional Heel characteristics now in the role of today's Babyfaces (like what Austin used to be). If Cena perhaps was still doing his Rap Gimmick with raunchy humor, then maybe he could be considered today's Anti-Hero. Personally, I think he would be a Hell of a lot more over in this role and selling more tickets, but I digress.

 

[whoopwhoop12]

What I find very interesting is that there's a lot of lack in play when it comes to a development of a "wrestler/character" nowadays.

There is a lot of reasons why "fans" currently cheer for the "heel" more than ever before instead of the "face"

1. NO MORE (STANDOUT) GIMMICKS. When I reflect on the gimmicks that were back in the day, they were utilized as a way to expand an imagination about ones character. Sure, everyone in the WWE (currently) has, had or is a gimmick, but most wrestlers gimmicks reflect off of staying "real". The gimmicks are more reflected on who the real person is and not so much of the character that they are. Example: John Cena. Cena started in the WWE having "Ruthless Aggression", then transitioned into a "rapper", starred in a movie that had him embody a "Marine" and now being the face of the company..."Real recognizes Real". John doesn't need to have any gimmick at this moment because no matter what he is an instant draw to the young fans. The WWE thinks John being John is a gimmick and quite frankly, it gets boring. People want to imagine and explore with a certain persona, not by being real all the time. The fans want to imagine what it would be like if it "was" real. Like Stone Cold Steve Austin beating the crap out of his boss by being the craziest redneck he was. That was entertaining and something you couldn't help, but watch every time. That's why guys like The Undertaker is still popular to this very day. His gimmick is one of the most powerful gimmicks of all time. Nowadays when you relate to the word "gimmick" you look at guys like Santino Marella, Hornswoggle & Kung Fu Naki, which is just sad. Gimmicks used to mean something. Now if you have a (brand new) gimmick in this day and age, prepare to get your pink slip when the joke is not funny anymore and the character becomes a thing of the past. Sucks.

2. FANS OF THE OLD SCHOOL/ATTITUDE ERA. Well, let me think. Kids are attracted to such people like John Cena, Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio etc. etc., but how are the kids getting to the shows? Why is there so much booing for these stars if the kids love them so much? How are these kids watching WWE programming?

OH I KNOW WHY, because the fans of the attitude era are now the PARENTS and now allowing these kids to watch WWE programming. LIKE...CMON. DUH. You actually think that most of the people that bring young kids to a WWE show weren't fans of the WWE at some point in their childhood? The attitude era, I think, was innovative for its time. The fans were all about it. When it dimmed down, fans had to be content with what they had. The people that lived around the attitude/old school era were wrestling was all about imagination and excitement, still get that same buzz when they go to a WWE show. One of the most recognizable places where you see fans cheer for the heel, boo the top face and display appreciation for a great match no matter who they are cheering for is at WRESTLEMANIA. How many times have we heard John Cena get booed like crazy every time he was in or won a match at WrestleMmania? How many times have we seen heel characters get cheered for putting on a great match or let alone be cheered because they won the match? (HBK vs Angle WM 21), (Orton vs Cena vs HHH WM 24) How many times have we heard "the people" speak on who they want to see win matches only to be let down (CM PUNK 2009 MITB: people wanted Christian or MVP to win it, I think.) or embraced at the very end. (RVD 06, Mr. Kennedy 07, CM Punk 2008 MITB's). The generation that came before this PG status speaks in numerous volumes. I mean, do you think a kid that watches WWE programming now is gonna buy a $3,000 ticket to cheer for John Cena at Wrestlemania? Not saying he wouldn't, but who's gonna bring him? The people that don't like John Cena, that's who. The people that still live in the era that was grand. The era's that came before this PG bullshit.

The product and brand is not genuine as it used to be. The characters are somewhat played out. Though it is constructive in a sense, there is a lack of depth with what Vince wants and what the people want.

 

[Excalibur]

Heel and Face characters today are a reflection of today's society. It isn't like back in the day if the guy cheated = heel, played by the rules = face. It isn't that simple anymore.

Look at the top guys in WWE and TNA. Their gimicks are pretty much just themselves. Today instead of evil dentists, hockey goons or missing links you have movie heroes, street thugs, an Irish guy who likes to fight and a guy who pulls a sock out his sweats.

The Hurricane, Umaga, and Goldust are throwbacks.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Heel and Face characters today are a reflection of today's society. It isn't like back in the day if the guy cheated = heel, played by the rules = face. It isn't that simple anymore.

Look at the top guys in WWE and TNA. Their gimicks are pretty much just themselves. Today instead of evil dentists, hockey goons or missing links you have movie heroes, street thugs, an Irish guy who likes to fight and a guy who pulls a sock out his sweats.

The Hurricane, Umaga, and Goldust are throwbacks.

If we really had more movie-like heroes and villains in wrestling, I think it would be great.

Gimmicks aren't a bad thing. It's a grey issue. Some are great and some are awful. I was not a fan of The Goon, TL Hopper, Isaac Yankem, or such. But I was a fan of other more successful gimmicks like Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, Jake The Snake Roberts, Mr. Perfect, Ravishing Rick Rude, the Honky Tonk Man, etc.

And I strongly feel there is room in wrestling for gimmicks along those lines, however not along the lines of the lamer gimmicks you mentioned.

The problem with going for the Realistic personalities (as I refer to today's wrestlers as) is that they have become so toned down that they are bland and boring. I feel that wrestling should be somewhat of an alternative world ... and escape from the Real World. Or, that it should be viewed as the "Real World on Steroids" (not literally speaking, of course).

I don't feel that the realistic personalities route has been nearly as successful as the gimmick route as far as making the connection with the audience (ironically enough given that they are more "realistic" today) and getting the audience motivated to elicit reactions for them. They are just too toned down and bland.

 

[Tastycles]

The onus of crowd reaction is on what the wrestler says not what he does. People don't boo Punk becasue he cheats, they don't boo him because he attacks people, they boo him because he says that they are incapable of looking after their children. Punk's reaction was mixed until he turned on the crowd.

It took wrestling promoters a long time to realise that, hence our whiter than paper faces from the 1980s. However, with time, they came to realise the real thing that people despise in wrestling: the truth. They liked Stone Cold, because it was escapist, he's beating up his boss, I'd love to do that. Vince was the true reflection of what would happen. Take now, Jericho saying that wrestling fans are fickle, Edge is injury prone and that Shawn Michaels is past it. These are all completely true, and people hate him.

Wrestling is all about escapism, people want to see the hero win. The role of the heel isn't to stop the hero, it's to bring the audience crashing back down to earth. There are no heroes. There isn't a single person on planet earth that is remotely like Hulk Hogan but there are a million rich ********s, bullies and high acheivers who think that they're better than you.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

Falkon this thread is amazing, good job...

Now down to the issue, the fact is with any role a person takes the one thing they hate more (as Tastycles point out) is the truth, the truth is ugly, its annoying and brings people crashing down to reality.

take for instance a man whose lazy at his job, a bad father and just plain hates life, if someone came up to him and told him everything that was wrong with him he would be up and ready for a fight.

Thats what heels like Punk do, they tell the fans whats wrong with them and they hate it, the fact they succumbed to their vices on a daily basis, and mocks the things they enjoy doing, it leaves one to reflect.

"Who is Punk to tell me im an alcoholic, who is he to tell me im a druggie for taking paracetamol"

thats what people hate, back in the 80's it was all about the heels and baby faces, the guys allow you to escape from your life for an hour or so and just have fun, Vince knows this and bring Punks persona to the forefront, it allows the best part of Punk to shine, because what he does can't be imitated, it cant be replicated in a common gimmick thats what makes this situation so unique.

Punk has achieved something daring that really makes people think, hes made people despise him because in fact, they despise themselves and people don't want to hear right or wrong, they don't want to face their own reality, thats what makes the booking of punks character so great, good work WWE.

 

[dx32v]

call it what you want.. i dont think you really want to talk politics, i know most of you, won't agree with me. no ones ever liked my opinion anyway.. and i think i know, how old these people are, but its still irony... and oh yeah killing their bodys is so much fun.. and then taking pain killers later on...
but maybe if you thought of this: if wrestlers didnt drink and then do other stupid things, maybe some of the new generation could reach the age of 85..
----------------------
i'm sure obama drinks.. thats why hes so stupid, and a con man for the new world order..

So because CM Punk is straight edge you believe he is a good role model? I hate to break it to you, but to some parents a guy covered in tattoos might not be what they want their kids looking up to. Regardless if a guy like John Cena drinks or not, he isn't advocating it and has a clean look that parents would like. So people aren't living to 85 because they drink? Alright health expert, it couldn't be because of all the processed garbage food people stuff in their mouths everyday? You are probably guilty of this as well and want to preach about the dangers of drinking? These foods bring no health value whatsoever but on the contrary, studies have shown that drinking an alcoholic beverage, such as red wine which is rich in antioxidants, helps reduce heart disease. Now on Obama, you can choose to like him or hate him, but to call a man who holds degrees from Columbia and Harvard stupid, something you could only dream about doing, is moronic itself and shows you lack the intelligence to avoid speaking about things you know nothing about.

 

[Wrath]

If Cm Punk was a tweener you would be right. But no WWE's doing what they have been doing for years. They turned Punk heel to make us boo him. They did not give you a chance. They booked Punk as a %100 bad guy and booked Hardy as a %100 good guy. If they booked both as tweeners you would be right because we would have a chance to choose who to boo and who to cheer.

Punk's gimmick is not much more different than Sheik Abdul Bashir's. Bashir is right in a sense he might've had too many pains because of war maybe even lost his family but it doesn't give him the right to hate innocent American citizens. It's same with Punk maybe he is right in a sense but it doesn't give him the right to stick his nose to anyone's business. So no WWE is not playing with us they're just giving us a bad guy to hate and good guy to love. They don't leave choice to you.