Is Vince McMahon really the genius we think he is???

Savion83

Pre-Show Stalwart
Vincent K. McMahon has come along way with the WWF/E after buying it from his father Vince Sr. That's over twenty-six years now! McMahon bought out the competions in wrestling at the time (AWA, Mid-Atlantic, WCCW). Created the world famous Wrestlemaina event of course, and help lanched the career of Hulk Hogan and many others like Bret Hart, The Undertaker, and Stone Cold Steve Austin.

While McMahon's WWF/E was losing tv ratings to WCW at the time. Vince McMahon came with the "edgey" formula that was known as the "atittude era" in the late ninety's. Then in early 2001, Vince McMahon had bought out WCW and signed some of there top stars (Booker T, DDP, Goldberg). McMahon even went as far as the creating his own football league...by that didn't get over with the pro football crowd.

Vince McMahon has really brought the WWE in the mainstream to where it has never been before! And has a star on the hollywood "walk of fame" to prove. So the question really is. Is Vince Mcmahon the "genius" people say he is?
 
Short answer - yes, he is a genius. Anyone who can create the Undertaker gimmick and later the attitude era with Stone Cold, putting his own self against him, is a genius.
 
Of course..

The majority of wrestling fans do not realize the risk the McMahon family took on Wrestlemania. They see how big wrestling is today and they think he just lifted up the couch and got the carriers to back him.

Vince and Linda declared bankruptcy and built their company back up the smart way.

Their is a reason today you are watching Vince McMahon, and not Jim Crockett and GCW. Crockett had the better talent, and arguably the smarter fans... he just didn't want to listen to people when it came to finance.

In 1993 when Vince got indicted of course he hit a bump in the road and when his back was turned the competition raped his roster. Which arguably brought us the two worse years in wrestling history (94-95... The story lines were awful IMO)

It'll be a sad day the day he lets someone take over his creation, but he will always be remembered as a genius.
 
of course look at what he did he turned a tiny little company his dad that was probably not making a huge profit had to a company that makes millions easily

he has gave everything to make it esp for the first WM all his money his whole life and he will even get in the ring and take a good ass kicking for it how many chairmen will do did u ever see billionaire ted get in the ring
 
of course look at what he did he turned a tiny little company his dad that was probably not making a huge profit had to a company that makes millions easily

he has gave everything to make it esp for the first WM all his money his whole life and he will even get in the ring and take a good ass kicking for it how many chairmen will do did u ever see billionaire ted get in the ring

I wouldn't necessarily call it a tiny little company.

They arguably had the best territory (notice in my prior post I said Crockets had the smarter fans... but Vince had the northeast which at that time was considered the best market.
 
This guy deserves awards for his work..well i'm guessing the walk of fame is an award...but anyway...Yes...he is a genius...and I think he still is..this guy took pro wrestling to a level that no expected it to reach...

He bought out all his competition, he killed it...so his company could be at the top with no disruptions...

Vince is the wrestling GOD...
(I think I went too far..)
 
Vince is wrestling and will always be wrestling anyone that says anything that Vince is not wrestling is completely stupid!!!

1.Okay first of all he create the most successful wrestling company around and in my option and the will never be a better one.

2.He destroyed the competition and brought wrestling under one banner (I would not be able to see wrestling if it was the WWF/E)

3.He made wrestling what it is today a profit.

4.He made the only pay per view event I will buy in wrestling which is Wrestlemaina.

So if anyone thinks Vince is no wrestling god then go back to what you do because you are not worth the time and effort!!!
 
No he is not. Vince McMahon is overrated. He's living off of his accomplishments from the 80s. I give him credit where it's due but nothing Vince McMahon has done after WrestleMania has been original. He has stolen other people's ideas, dubbed it as his own, and has been riding that wave ever since.

Attitude Era=ECW Revolution imitation
Steve Austin=Sandman
DX=NWO ripoffs.

And look at current day WWE. The product sucks. If not for the fact that he's been on cable tv so long and has built such a huge audience over the years, no one would watch. His show is trash.

Also let's think about it. What does he really do now? He doesn't come up with any creative ideas. He signs these trash writers from Hollywood and when they come up with scripts, all he does is cosign those ideas and look over it for approval but that is about it. From the attitude era from this day, I will not credit him because those ideas weren't his.

Vince is past his prime. His brain is finished. He has nothing more to contribute. And even though his company has kept up with the times, it was because he rode the work of others. By himself, he is pure shit!
 
Vince is definably a smart businessman that knows the industry but calling him a genius is quite a hyperbole. He's had victories and stumbles along the way ( things like the XFL, The body building federation, the lukewarm performances of WWE Films, and smaller things like the ECW PPV and Brock Lesnar turning face comes into mind in showing Vince has his share of stumbles.

I always felt Vince stumbles into things by accident and has a knack of capitalizing on it. Case in point ....

... later the attitude era with Stone Cold, putting his own self against him, is a genius.

With Austin, Rock, DX, and the Mr. McMahon character during the attitude era. I kind of felt they were accidental discoveries instead of any attempts to understand the trend of the market. I recall DX and their antics did not set well with Vince McMahon early on (as discussed by Shawn Michaels a few years back), Austin was meant to be a mega heel, Rock was groomed to be a goodie-two shoes baby face, and Mr. McMahon character came because of Montreal.

So saying he came up with the Attitude era is stretching it a bit; but I see him more of a person who capitalized on upon stumbling on it by a string of events.

All in all I wouldn't call him a Genius, much less a Wrestling God. I would knock him down a bit closer to Earth and say he is a Visionary.
 
Yes he is. With all that he has accomplished how can you not be if not a genius than at least extremely intelligent.

That being said he has had help along the way.

Wrestling was floundering until Hulk Hogan helped bring it more mainstream.

WCW was also a major factor in the success of WWE today. They had mega stars like Ric Flair, Sting, Booker T, the Steniers, and Goldberg to grab fans attention. The NWO was a monster angle that brought the two companies a lot of added attention because the WWE had to counter that awesome angle and in the process built up guys like the Rock, Steve Austin, HHH, HBK, and the Undertaker. Guys who helped bring profesional wrestling even more mainstream. That is TNA's problem right now they have not been able to creat that mega star to help them attract more fans. They use good guys like AJ Styles and Samao Joe and a bunch of WWE/WCW rejects. Competition was great for the business and unfortunatly the business is suffering right now because TNA is not competition for the WWE. Their failed move to Monday nights proved that.

Vince is also an egomaniac. He believes that every thought in his head is a million dollar idea. Take for instance the XFL. It was a joke, as will his movie projects be remembered as.

He needs to stick to wrestling and leave the other crap alone. Stick with what you know.
 
I don't see how this question could be answered in a way to say "no he's not" because it would be an outrageous lie.

Vince has taken what used to be a territorial wrestling promotion under the NWA and turned it into a world wide mainstream million dollar promotion, he went head to head with NWA in terms of taking over the territories that they once ruled, he went head to head with WCW as well and broke them down as he introduced Stone Cold Steve Austin.

While Stone Cold weren't the only one to drag down WCW, Vince as well invented and created the other superstars that followed along with Stone Cold: The Rock, Triple H, Mankind etc.

All of these wrestlers, alongside with The Attitude Era, was created by Vince (partially) and brought to life through the bookers and writers (Vince Russo in specific being credited for the Attitude Era).

Vince is the one to have the final say in things, if he doesn't like something, it's not happening, and seeing as WWE is quite so successful, sure there's things some hate, people that some hate as well, but nonetheless WWE is going strong, and Vince is the brain behind it.

Vince is definitely a genius, I would love to see the person that says no, just so I can prove him wrong.
 
Well a bit off topic, but being a successful company doesn't mean you need a genius leading it. You just need someone who is smart enough to run an organization, have a clear goal, objective, and vision, and be surrounded by good people who share that same vision.

I read that in a book once, that that great companies do not have one genius or god like person leading it. Rather its about being consistent in what you are good at, what you are passionate about, and the people around you.

So if we are going to base the WWE's success based on one man; that wouldn't be realistic. Yes McMahon has a huge hand in it taking the company in that direction but I hardly doubt he turned the WWWF/WWF/WWE as big as it is today solely on his own smarts.
 
Vince McMahon is a genius. However, no matter how smart you are or how much of a genius you are... you can make bad decisions. Vince McMahon has made some very good business decisions in the past, but not always the best. Who can blame him though? When you're such a rich businessman like him... it gets quite stressful. You're tired most of the time. Even though you don't do everything yourself, it's still hard work. Despite all that... Vince McMahon still deserves all the credit he gets and is a genius.
 
No he is not. Vince McMahon is overrated. He's living off of his accomplishments from the 80s. I give him credit where it's due but nothing Vince McMahon has done after WrestleMania has been original. He has stolen other people's ideas, dubbed it as his own, and has been riding that wave ever since.

Yes, it's very easy live off your accomplishments from the 80's. That is clearly why McMahon is making millions upon millions every year. Clearly.

Attitude Era=ECW Revolution imitation

This is one of the funniest claims ever. Did ECW help bring in the Attitude era? Yes, yes it did. However, you are (most likely, though I do not know you personally) one of those guys who watches ECW stuff on Youtube, watched One Night Stand, bought the Rise and Fall DVD and declares themselves an expert. ECW was a place where guys who couldn't work for the other companies could go and be different.

ECW was crash TV just like the Attitude era but the Attitude era did NOT feature storylines ripped off from ECW, they did not use blood and weapons every match, every night. Hell, the Attitude era didn't even develop characters like ECW did. They are NOT the same, there are similarities but they are NOT the same and ECW do not deserve anything more than a small amount of credit for ushering in Attitude. The angle that properly ushered in the Attitude era and, I would argue, turned WWE's business around was McMahon/Austin, an angle that (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't play out in ECW and had no ECW counterpart.

Steve Austin=Sandman

PMSL! To even insinuate that The Sandman had even a fraction of the talent that Stone Cold Steve Austin had is completely and utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Were the characters similar? Yes, they both drank beer, yes they both beat people up. Does that mean the Sandman and Heyman are responsible for Austin? Not at all.

Did the Sandman and Heyman create the cool catchphrases? No.

Did the Sandman and Heyman create the marketing machine behind Austin? No.

Did The Sandman and Heyman cut the 3:16 promo? No.

Did The Sandman and Heyman create the McMahon/Austin angle? No.

Did The Sandman and Heyman create the Stone Cold character? No. The characters both drank beer and beat people up, that's hardly copyright infringement.

Vince McMahon was involved in almost all of the things that made Austin the biggest wrestling star ever and Austin took the company onto his shoulder. To insinuate he simply copied the Sandman is ridiculous, if the Sandman's gimmick was that amazing surely he would be starring in movies and ECW would be making millions but....he's not and they're not. The Sandman and Paul Heyman are NOT responsible for Stone Cold, Stone Cold and Vince McMahon are.

DX=NWO ripoffs.

This is the only one you I will partially admit is slightly true....but not very. They were both controversial groups, that's the only REAL similarities. One was a group of sophomoric goofs and the other were edgy, cool and bad ass. They didn't participate in similar angles, they didn't use the same gimmicks. They're different. Vince McMahon was involved (albeit only lightly at the start judging by Michael's book) in the creation of this group that greatly benefited WWF's business.

And look at current day WWE. The product sucks. If not for the fact that he's been on cable tv so long and has built such a huge audience over the years, no one would watch. His show is trash.

Your logic is flawed. Look at Scrubs, a show who's second series averaged at 15 million viewers, it was cancelled in season 9 after averaging only 3 million. Why was it cancelled? Because it was getting old and nobody liked the new characters. If nobody liked the new characters on Raw, or the product it wouldn't still be doing ratings and it still wouldn't be still on the air after 15 years. Simply because you don't like the product and the IWC community doesn't like the product isn't necessarily to say nobody else does, I personally don't like it but the ratings speak for themselves.

Further, no matter how much of an audience you build up the public are not mindless idiots who'll watch any drivel and like it because they're trained to. If they were, we wouldn't see tv shows like Scrubs being cancelled after 9 or 10 years and they built up just as much, if not more, of an audience than Raw. If people didn't like it they wouldn't watch it and it wouldn't be on TV.

Also let's think about it. What does he really do now? He doesn't come up with any creative ideas. He signs these trash writers from Hollywood and when they come up with scripts, all he does is cosign those ideas and look over it for approval but that is about it. From the attitude era from this day, I will not credit him because those ideas weren't his.

Because you've clearly worked so intimately with him that you know EXACTLY what he does and doesn't do, you know exactly who wants to push which wrestler, who created which gimmick, who worked on which segment and who has decided upon angles and events that, regardless of your or my opinion (and my opinion is that much of them have been crap), have made him quite a bit of money. 'Mania 26 may have been down on 25 but PG or not it made McMahon millions.

If you have not worked directly with an individual and obtain all of your information from websites that are not known for their accuracy you haven't got the first clue what they do or don't do. You don't have a clue if or how McMahon works but his pocket book speaks to the contrary anyway.

Vince is past his prime. His brain is finished. He has nothing more to contribute. And even though his company has kept up with the times, it was because he rode the work of others. By himself, he is pure shit!

Again, you've clearly worked so closely with him. This is the EXACT reason stars like John Cena, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Taker, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart (someone who despised McMahon up until recently) all credit McMahon for guiding them, helping them, developing them and making them into stars. He helped forge ALL of those men into megastars, despite the differences and disagreements all of those men have with him they still regard him as a genius and a good businessman; they've worked with him. You haven't.

I will apologize for the sarcastic tone of this post but to insinuate Vince is resting on his laurels and has done nothing since the 80's when his company has put on events like Wrestlemania 17, dominated the wrestling market, put WCW out of business and continues to make millions and millions every single year is ridiculous. Your claims of Vince not being involved are also ludicrous, how do you know? A lot of Vince's employees disagree with you.

Vince has survived the test of time, something he couldn't possibly do by merely copying others while others innovated. Vince McMahon is the reason you're able to watch Pro-Wrestling because it's arguable wrestling would not be half as popular globally if it weren't for him. There's a reason he has created numerous megastars that are household names while TNA, a company currently employing an individual you claim Vince ripped off, has created the some total of none. AJ Styles is not and never will be a household name. Vince is a great business man and, indeed, a genius. Albeit, a flawed genius like the rest of them.
 
I don't think there's even a question about whether Vince is a genius or not. It's a simple fact that without VKM, we would have the huge stars that are Hulk Hogan, the Rock, Steve Austin, John Cena, etc. Yeah, stars were made before Vince, and TNA might be able to make a few more, but even Sting never really got to the point of Hulk Hogan popularity (it was close in WCW, but it wasn't the same). Vince has made some really terribly decisions in the past and in the present, and will probably make a lot in the future, but in all honesty he's bound to make a few bad calls.

I hear a lot of people claim that he's lost his way because he allowed WWE to go down the PG route. Here is a man who wanted his own family to be involved in sexual story lines. Here was a man who would cheat on his own wife on live television. Here was a man who allowed a live sex scene to go on in the middle of the ring. Vince McMahon is anything but PG, but he is a business man. Don't you think that if he could be making more money with sex and violence, he would? THe guy has always been successful, and he's making a shit ton of money right now, just like always. He realized that the market was getting younger, and he could make more money with the teens who would buy his products by the boatload. He also realized that he could stay on networks like USA if he lowered his rating, and there's no way he could have kept the income flowing or the ratings stable on a network like Spike. TNA is full of sex and violence, and their ratings aren't going anywhere. However, UFC is fourishing, so the case could be made that it's possible. But Vince wouldn't want to partner with Spike or UFC, because it could hurt business. USA is a huge famous network that almost everyone in the country can pick up on. He'll do whatever it takes to maintain ratings and keep his business going. Now, if the television market changes, maybe one day we'll see sex and violence on WWE programming again. But for now, they'll just have to be a little more creative. And is that really such a bad thing?

There's been a bit of talk about Paul-E boy on here, and at the risk of getting off-topic I won't say a whole lot. I do think that Heyman is another wrestling genius. I think some of my favorite times in the WWE are when Vince and Heyman worked together on ideas. Vince is a business man, and Heyman is a creative man. The two together should equal great and wonderful things. But it turns out they both want complete control over what they're doing, and that's just not going to work. But Heyman is a genius, and he didn't need huge name stars in ECW to make things work. He could turn anybody into a great character. Maybe they would never reach John Cena level popularity, but they would be damn entertaining to watch. This is why I think Heyman and Vince should work together again. Because Heyman can make characters, and Vince can market them into stars. If they can ever really figure out how to get on the same page, they could turn wrestling into paradise for the fans. But that's just my opinion. Two different geniuses, from two different places, who do things completely differently.
 
Absolutely. He built a multi million dollar corporation and no one's been able to compete with him, with the exception of WCW which eventually faltered because it had people of significantly lower intelligence running it. He created the greatest sports entertainment spectacle of all time, WrestleMania, he's expanded business all over the globe, he has successfully turned wrestling back into a family friendly business after the crash/shock television prominent in the Attitude Era. Sure, we might disagree with his opinions of certain superstars, such as not wanting to push Christian and getting fascinated with every new big guy he sees, but that doesn't make him any less of a genius on the business side of things. And on the creative side, he's created some of the best characters and storylines ever seen in wrestling, such as The Undertaker and the Austin vs. McMahon feud, both mentioned earlier in this thread. The guy wouldn't be where he is today if he wasn't a genius, plain and simple.
 
It depends on what you mean by "genius."

Marketing genius? Absolutely - he did something nobody else thought of doing; he made pro wrestling "national". Until then, it was regionalized. (Never mind that WCW was on WTBS; that wasn't the NWA taking it nationwide as much as it was wrestling piggybacking on WTBS's expansion.) Keep in mind that Vince didn't take California away from the NWA; the two main promotions had long been abandoned by the time WWE showed up (the first northern California house show was in April or May of 1984 - at least two years after the NWA promotion had folded, and at least five after it had been on TV).

As for WCW not succeeding in part because of Crockett having a financial problem, keep in mind that Crockett, like McMahon, put his eggs in one PPV basket (speaking of which, remember that the first WrestleMania was not on TV; you had to go to movie theaters to see it if you weren't at the arena), but McMahon knew he had the upper hand with the main PPV company in the USA and threatened to keep the next WrestleMania off if they even considered showing the first Starrcade. And how many times did a WCW or AWA PPV have an unannounced substitution because Vince had signed a wrestler away earlier that day?

(And while we're listing Vince's dubious "accomplishments", here are a couple; he was in charge of the broadcast of Evel Knievel's Snake River Canyon jump, as well as Sugar Ray Leonard's second comeback fight against Donny LaLonde (which I for one consider about as close as you can get to rigging a fight without somebody actually throwing it, considering the conditions they put on LaLonde in part so Leonard could claim to be the first boxer to win titles in five weight classes; in fact, they hyped the fight on WWE programming, with the faces all behind Leonard and the heels backing LaLonde.)
 
It depends on what the word genius means to you. I mean I don't know his IQ, I am sure it isn't that low but in the wrestling world is he a genius...OF COURSE HE IS!

Seriously I don't even understand this thread. Vince McMahon created the biggest wrestling organization known to man. First off he and the WWE have created some of the greatest angles, characters, matches, etc. in wrestling history all by themselves. Secondly, some may argue he stole ideas from other companies, but isn't that just smart business. He looked at WCW, ECW, NWA...whoever and took the ideas that could work and made them even better. Everyone steals each others ideas. WCW stole ideas from the WWE all the time. I mean they pretty much stole there roster from the early 90s. How much more stealing could you do. Third, people have to realize how big of a task Vince has with the WWE. Of course there are going to be crappy storylines from time to time. The WWE has to make story lines for Raw and Smackdown EACH once a week with NO OFF SEASON. Sorry if the storyline quality are not CSI or 24. Lastly, if Vince McMahon wasn't a genius somebody would have taken over the wrestling industry by now. Wrestling brings in millions and millions of dollars. People wouldn't just sit back and let Vince take the industry if they didn't think he could do it better then them.
 

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