Is success the problem with WWE?

[whoopin' ass]

I was flipping through the channels and hit a Raw rerun from Monday with The Shield/Evolution and was hit by an idea - is being a success the problem with wwe? Here is what I mean: before 2000, things were different as you had regions, territories and finally WCW/EWC/WWF so you never really saw the same group of wrestlers together on the same show for any extended period of time. Every few years a contract would come up and someone would jump ship and before that, moving from territory to territory was just a fact of life. Then things changed and wwe was the only real option. Now we are seeing guys spend a decade plus in the same company. Guys like Hogan and Flair may have been multi time champs but they did it in a couple companies where as guys like Orton and Cena are multi time champs in the same company.

I am not thinking so much about the lack of competition as are we just not used to seeing guys around for this long and that is why we have issues with the wwe product? Look at when Hogan left WWF and went to WCW - people got tired of him quickly there too. In the past, you had your mainstay talent but there was a lot of people coming and going which doesn't happen as much anymore. Was this problem going to happen no matter what? Is it simply a matter that we are not used to seeing guys around this long that we dislike the product even if the ideas are as good as ever and make sense for the characters?

 

[TheICChampion]

Definitely thought-provoking. I think success is a problem with the E because they seem to think that since there's no more real competition then they don't feel they have to try as hard. ROH is another company that people seem to think as just another independent wrestling promotion. TNA, as hard as they try sometimes, people just don't seem to care anymore. No other promotion comes even remotely close. I agree that back in the day you had 3 legit wrestling promotions, thus causing each of them to bring out their best to make sure they don't go under. Not to say that sometimes WWE doesn't have good storylines and what-not, they just don't feel the constant need to churn out the best because they know their alternatives aren't even close to competing with them.

 

[Y2JBL]

Yes, just another aspect of the whole "no competition" thing. My heart aches every time I read something about how originally Bischoff was trying to buy WCW and there was going to be a relaunch etc. The business would be so much better off today if 2001 never happened the way it did. Seeing guys jump ship and end up on another company's show were some of the most exciting moments. I just realized I'm inadvertently speaking as if there is no other company on TV right now. That just goes to show how little of an impact TNA has made that I have to remind myself that there is another televised wrestling show out there. But at this point guys go to TNA when they are tired and like the lighter traveling schedule there, not to shake things up or create a big TV moment.

Some guys can be in the same company for 10+ years and not get boring but certainly not with the terrible writing and booking these days.

Bottom line is that you can pull up a youtube episode of RAW from 1998 and you will feel more excitement in whatever the opening segment might be than you get from a combined month of WWE programming at this point. And many of those moments happen to be things like Y2J debuting etc. That can't happen anymore when there is no other company competing at the same level.

 

[GeneralKarim]

I'm sure it is. If there was competition you bet your ass WWE would step up their game.
Even Cena said in the SCSA interview that he didn't like the fact that for the longest time WWE didn't really build new stars or even tried. Now that they are seeing that there are barely guys left to wrestle they have started really investing in people.

WWE seems to work a lot better under pressure. This time it wasn't another company, it was themselves and lack of main-event talent. I mean, the talent was clearly there, but they weren't pushed enough. All they did was flavor of the months type deals, which didn't help at all.

At this point in time I think WWE has really changed quite a bit and really started to push new guys as you can see. I just hope this time they see clearly and not push people only to forget about them, latest example being someone like Sandow ( I remember his promo when he said smth to the effect that he wouldn't give up until he got rid of cena or smth along those lines, dont quote me on that one, but he did say smth that would imply him being featured in a more prominent role ).

Another one is Big E. They made him champ. And then nothing. The guy has charisma and is funny as hell. He just said in his interview with notSam that they are slowly getting to the point of him being himself in the ring/on the mic. Lets hope they get to it faster cause he isnt getting the pops he once got.

They are doing a good job with the Shield and Wyatt atm. And a decent job with Cesaro, tho I'm still not quite getting this heel manager with face wrestler. It's entertaining cause it's Heyman but it still a bit weird. We'll have to wait and see.

They are at this point where success is their problem but it has caught up to them because they don't have enough stars and they had to get a move on and they did. Here's to them not fucking The Shield/Cesaro/Bryan/Wyatt/Paige up.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The problem with this point of view is that, realistically speaking, you can't really blame WWE because they've managed to survive. There was an interview with Jim Cornette with Jim Ross recently in which they talk about the territory system, I think someone created a thread on it. WWE tends to be named the reason why the territory system went under, but there was also the huge impact that the increasing availability of cable television and syndicated programming had. By the time the first WrestleMania came around, a lot of long established territories were either out of business or on their way to being out of business with or without the WWF in the picture. Prior to this, if you wanted to watch a wrestling program on TV, you had to watch whomever operated in your particular geographic area; if those companies had a TV program. If you lived in Tampa, Florida then you were relegated to Championship Wrestling from Florida, but that either had changed or was changing by the mid 80s.

As far as the handling of WCW goes, it became personal to Vince McMahon and, as a result, MAYBE he didn't make the best choices from a business perspective. Then again, I can understand if his judgment was clouded. After all, I'd be pretty steamed if Eric Bischoff came right out and said that he wanted to put my company out of business. Maybe it was bluster and bravado, maybe it wasn't. I know that some of us like to believe that he could've kept WCW going as its own company, which is possible I suppose, but it's no guarantee that he could've gotten WCW as new TV deal.

There are other wrestling companies out there with a presence on television. TNA's been on television regularly now for nearly 10 years and Ring of Honor has a syndicated TV deal with episodes airing at different days & times during the week. However, if people don't watch them because they're just not on their radar, they forget about them or they're not really even interested, then that's the viewers' problem. There's no real competition for WWE right now in terms of anyone being a "threat" to its spot at the top of the mountain, that's true, but I don't see how WWE can be blamed for that. It isn't WWE's fault that TNA hasn't been able to get to the ever elusive "next level" that Dixie Carter or on-air authority figures bring up in promos every so often.

I think the biggest perceived problem lies with the fans themselves. Not saying that WWE doesn't fuck up sometimes, God knows they do, or that it's wrong to point that out or criticize something you're not into. However, it just seems that more and more fans simply cannot be satisfied or that wrestling just isn't what it used to be. Of course it's not what it used to be: we're grown men watching a fictional sport where men & women play fictional versions of themselves or completely different characters that engage if fictional feuds rather than 10 or 12 year old boys watching something that we think is 100% authentic. Today's booking & writing isn't perfect but, let's be honest, when was it ever??? It wasn't perfect when Dusty Rhodes was "suspended" and masqueraded as the "Midnight Rider." It wasn't perfect in regards to the whole Ric Flair/Black Scorpion debacle, Vince McMahon "forcing" people to literally kiss his ass on national television, Triple H having simulated sex with a "corpse" named Katie Vick, Chyna as the IC champ, Austin holding a "gun" to Vince's head and causing him to wet himself, etc. Pro wrestling writing and logic doesn't exactly aspire to Shakespearean levels of loftiness.

 

[whoopin' ass]

But I think no competition is only part if it. Look at TNA and ROH - we don't hear nearly as many complaints about people who have been there a while compared to wwe. No one really had any issue with Styles winning the TNA title last year even though he was a multi time champ and had been with the company for a long time. Both of them have people coming and going on a fairly regular basis - be it wrestlers leaving or TNA just keeping them off tv for a while. Yet with wwe, you have a core set of guys who never seem to leave and are the ones people mostly have issues with. Look at Orton - up until he won the title, he hasn't had a storyline for a very long time yet wwe kept him on tv so he was still out there. Would we have as many issues with him if he was gone for 6-12 months when creative had nothing interesting for him? I think it is a matter of being not only overexposed but overexposed for an extended period of time. Because this was never really an issue before, I don't think wwe really knows what to do so they keep doing the same thing hoping it is cyclical and people will start liking it again.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Jack-hammer, I think you have an interesting idea but my question is simple: what do the fans want? If you are like me, you just want good matches. I don't need all the dumb storylines, the weird or over the top gimmicks, I just want do see a good match in the ring. I think a lot of fans are like that. So why does wwe seem to be straying from that? They are going for the entertainment side when fans are screaming for more wrestling. It isn't unreasonable.

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

I think in many ways, the WWE have become a victim of their own success. The business was stagnant for a good few years, it seemed like many were not hungry for the success or just did not care enough to grab it when it was there. Now they have started to invest in more younger, hungrier talent.

 

[TDFG]

The territory system won't work now with the internet, satellite & cable etc.

WWE will continue to bring in part-timers for the likes of Wrestlemania, because deep down they don't have the trust in the current talent.

I think ever since the end of WCW and lack of competition, WWE has been in auto-pilot, they got hurt badly when a bunch of main-eventers either departed or became part-timers within that short space of time and ever since then they've been trying to build that back.

Again the lack of competition, as much as I'd like TNA & ROH to succeed, they don't seem to have the finances to move onto the next level.

I think when WCW went under & WWE became more PG a lot of fans just deserted wrestling, I would say the rise of UFC has had some effect as well.

 

[whoopin' ass]

You all bring up good points. I guess this leads to another question then: could this success ultimately be the thing that puts them out of business? Sounds crazy but you have to think of the number of companies that have been very successful and then rapidly went out of business because they didn't change and keep up with what the customers wanted. We keep saying wwe has no competition but really there is UFC which is taking a large part of their audience. As well, there are people like me who have stopped watching wwe but will watch TNA instead. We have seen ratings and attendance drop over the past decade, could we see it keep happening to a point where wwe has no choice but to cut back on things like production, etc as the shows are not making the money they need to? As long as Vince is in charge, I don't see wwe shutting its doors but there have been more and more rumors lately about him selling it which is something people thought would never happen. I could see a company buying it and somewhere down the road thinking the video library is worth more than the new, live product and seriously cutting back to the point where it is not the machine that it is today.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I hate hate HATE when people say "no competition". Do you really think WWE has no competition? You think USA gives a shit who beats WWE? WWE competes with everything else on TV. People will switch to the NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs, breaking bad, etc. WWE TV is great right now. I feel like this thread is just like every thread I read from 2004-2011. WWE has younger guys, NXT is awesome, the future is bright. Maybe I'm a glass full kind of guy, but the product has definitely stepped up. They've clearly built new guys too. So I don't get it. What more do you want them to do? If this were 2004-2011 I'd say you have a point, but with all the new guys they have now, and all the new ones in the pipeline, I don't think the point is as valid.

 

[kadroan]

I think wrestling is still in a slump. They're going to have to redefine what they put out if they want to recapture those audiences from the late 90s.

The Reality Era is a start but can't get complacent.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I think wrestling is still in a slump. They're going to have to redefine what they put out if they want to recapture those audiences from the late 90s.

The Reality Era is a start but can't get complacent.

What are you really talking about though? In December of 1997, WWF was still only drawing 5,000 for a PPV. Late 1997. The spike was, in actuality, very short lived. It was mostly based on being trash TV. It was outrageous stuff. That's not sustainable.

I think that instead of trying to peak like the late 90s, which wasn't a very hardcore base at all. It was a ton of casual fans that probably went on to watch Jersey Shore, Jerry Springer, and all the other trend TV shows (that typically die in 2-3 years, at least in popularity).

What WWE seems to be doing now is growing a base of very loyal fans. In my opinion, that's the best long term goal.

With NXT and the performance center, WWE is set for a long time. Imagine a baseball team with a good MLB team, and also a stacked farm system. The talent is in the pipeline for years to come.