Is Randy Couture a Hall of Famer to You?

[Turd Ferguson]

Recently in an interview with Ariel Helwani, James Toney was talking trash about Randy Couture. He made a comment on how Couture shouldn't be a Hall of Famer yet, because he's still an active competitor. He also remarked that because of Couture's record (he said he has 12 losses, but he's really 18-10), that he shouldn't even be a Hall of Famer in the first place.

There's been a lot of hate on Couture here lately, and I figured this would be a good debate to open up.

Anyone who doubts Couture is a Hall of Famer, or thinks he is overrated, I want to ask a question: Why?

You cannot judge a fighter by their record. I think the most recent example of overrating a fighter by their record came with Luiz Cane. He was listed on many top 10 lists and was considered a major prospect and a possible future champion. I was somewhat impressed by him, but he hadn't beaten anyone of real importance. Sokoudjou is literally a one hit wonder, Jason Lambert was never the same after Wilson Gouveia obliterated him, and Steve Cantwell is a decent fighter, sure, but beating him doesn't make you a top 10 fighter. Cane had a 10-1 record (with the one loss being a DQ), and people were praising him as the second coming despite him not really beating anyone of importance. All it took was Lil' Nog and Cyrille Diabate to end the hype train. A good record does not always mean that the holder of that record is a good fighter. In Couture's case, an average record doesn't mean you're an average fighter.

There's a reason why fights take place. Is Sherdog Fightfinder a useful tool? Absolutely. However, it doesn't give you anything else besides the result. The Fightfinder doesn't tell you that he's achieved all sorts of accolades in the UFC. He won the UFC 13 Tournament. He's won the Heavyweight Title three times, and the Light Heavyweight Title three times, making that six title reigns, the most in UFC history. He was the first man to win a UFC Title in two different weight classes. Those are some serious Hall of Fame credentials.

Not to mention, there's the level of competition he's fought. Three of those losses came in Japan, one in a very controversial stoppage. His losses in the UFC came to: A roided up Josh Barnett, and the following fighters in their prime: Ricco Rodriguez, Vitor Belfort (a cut that grazed his eye a minute into the first round... he later avenged that loss), Chuck Liddell twice (when he was considered the best fighter in the UFC), Brock Lesnar, and Big Nog. The level of competition he's lost to, at the very least in the UFC, is elite competition.

He's beaten the following fighters in their prime: Vitor Belfort (twice), Jeremy Horn, Kevin Randleman, Pedro Rizzo (twice, one of them being an absolute war), Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Tim Sylvia (back when he was UFC Champion, and not the joke he is now), Gabriel Gonzaga (back when he was considered fucking dangerous, and he did so with a BROKEN FREAKING ARM) and retired Mark Coleman.

Couture's record states he has 10 losses. It doesn't state that all he has ever really faced are tough and elite fighters. It also doesn't count for those three bullshit losses he had. And on August 28, I will be cheering loudly as he pummels James Toney into oblivion, and proves once again how great of an ambassador to the sport he truly is.

He is one of the best fighters in MMA history, period, and he deserves to be lauded as such.

 

[Fizzy]

Fuck yes Randy deserves to be in the UFC HOF. The guy has fought top competition his entire career even at 47 years old he still is. He along with Chuck and Tito were the first fighters to really get a fan base, and get the UFC more mainstream. He is one of the most popular fighters in UFC history, and has more title reigns than anybody ever in the UFC. Hes dominated two divisions, and his loses come from some of the all time greats. At an age that 95% of the fighters are retired he won the heavyweight title from Tim Sylvia. A man who not only outweighed him by a huge number, but was towering over him, and was much younger. Randy didn't just win that fight. He dominated Sylvia for five rounds in all areas of the fight.

Randy is easily a legend in the sport, and is one of the greatest of all time. At 47 years old he is fighting top competition, and wants to fight the best in the world. What other man at his age actually wants to fight Fedor? I really wish that fight happened a few years ago. The point is Randy was one of the first fighters to really help push the UFC into the mainstream, and helped develop a much larger fanbase. Fuck people who say hes gifted title shots. If he can beat the current champ easily then he obviously deserved it. Randy will go down as one of the greatest of all time, and completely deserves his spot in the HOF.

 

[INDYjon22]

Yes. Randy Couture is a Hall of Famer. He has accomplished a lot in his career. Been a multiple time champion and has successfully defended his championships. His credentials as champion are what put him in the Hall of Fame, that and the tough competition that he has faced and defeated in his career. The only thing I can really say is that if the UFC removed him from the Hall of Fame because he is still fighting then that would be fine, but no matter if he won or lost he would go right back into it. His career to this point has been great and deserves the honor of being in the Hall of Fame. Even if Couture lost the rest of the fights he has, I would not change my mind about that.

 

[jmt225]

I can't stand James Toney, but I agreed with his statements on this one.

Listen, I love Randy Couture, but I agree with Toney that no one should be a Hall of Famer if they're still active. I think the UFC should implement a rule that says your last fight had to be 3 years ago before you get inducted into our Hall of Fame. That would make their HOF a lot more legitimate, in my opinion.

Now, if the UFC refuses to go that route and choose to not care if they're inductees are active or not, then yeah... Couture deserves a spot in it much more than most you could give a spot to, that's for sure (except for Don Frye, who quite frankly outside of Royce Gracie should have been the first member inducted, if you ask me ). He's done so much for the sport, and the fact that he was able to do it at such an old age is just astonishing. There's nothing you can take away from Couture's accomplishments, nothing.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Hey Yo!

Randy "The Natural" Couture

Hell Yeah! He deserves to be in the UFC Hall of Fame, he is a living legend in the sport. Look at all his accolades, 6 Time Champ, First guy ever to win in titles two different weight classes. He has been there from the beginning. Time and time again he has been able to show people he can put on an entertaining spectacle that is called MMA and be darn good at it. I love Randy Couture. He is a living legend period....and he has the accolades to back that shit up. Come August 28, UFC 118, James Toney is gonna get his big mouth shut and get pummeled by the living legend, and DESERVING HALL OF FAMER Randy Couture.....Can i get an amen?

 

[Ferbian]

I don't see why not. I mean Randy as everybody has said. Has accomplished stuff. He is a very well known MMA fighter. And has had a lot of great fights. Just look down at his resume and it just screams surefire Hall of Fame inductee.

Randy has contributed to the business for a long period of time. And has grown to become somewhat of a legend (I would assume. Mind you my knowledge is lacking). Anybody who could firmly be credited as a legend has some belonging spot in the Hall of Fame. And I believe it doesn't matter what kind of contribution.

Like I said in the Tank Abbott thread. He contributed to the business. He got over. And he actually still accomplished things. The fact that he stuck around for a longer period of time. And did it with a passion as well as even though he had a negative win-loss record. He still did stuff that made him in a position to deserve a Hall of Fame spot.

The exact same thing goes for Randy. So yes he is definitely a Hall of Famer to me.

 

[gd]

He's easily a Hall of Famer, isn't he? I mean, he's one of the few names I think of when I think of MMA. His record doesn't really mean anything. It's not like he's never won a fight. Haven't most of his fights been title fights anyway? That means he's facing a high level of competition everytime out.

Plus, the way he fights and the way he's connected with the fans and made the sport so popular, I don't see how anyone can argue to he doesn't deserve it. Him and Chuck are probably the two biggest and most important UFCers ever, and they've both had their fair share of losses.

 

[Via Armbar]

Couture is one of the few fighters perioid, let alone well know fighters who is above their record. A loss for every two wins is what his record is at right now. Not overly impressive by any means, yet people mention his name almost every time an all time greats conversation is born. To me, Randy has always been ''the fan's fighter''. Almost an mma version of Dusty Rhodes. An image portrayed onto the fans of a man, despite age, record and odds has risen above to beat the favorite. It's a made-for-television Disney sports movie come to life. Always entertaining, always inspiring is Couture and the fans will always love him for it. Even with his age being one of the most overused topics of discussion in mma, the talk is warranted. Never should Couture be considered too much of an underdog. He can still beat at least 75% of the top 20 fighters at LHW. He's the man that beats who he shouldn't and loses to fighters he shouldn't.

With all that being said, there is no way that Couture isn't hall of fame. Him, along with Liddell are probably the two most well known and popular fighters in the UFC's history. There are newer legends still sculpting their legacies today like Silva and GSP, but the UFC's Mt. Rushmore already has Couture's face on it.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Plus, the way he fights and the way he's connected with the fans and made the sport so popular, I don't see how anyone can argue to he doesn't deserve it. Him and Chuck are probably the two biggest and most important UFCers ever, and they've both had their fair share of losses.

The difference between Randy and Chuck is this:

-Randy has lost 36% of his fights. That's an ASTONISHINGLY high percentage of losses for a HOF'er.Considering that he's not even retired yet. This number could jump as high as 45% by the time his contract is fulfilled.

-Chuck is sitting at a 28% losing percentage. Not too shabby, but consider this, Chuck also lost 5 out of his last six fights. Many people felt that Chuck's chin probably went out around 4 fights ago. You remove 3 of those losses from Chuck's W/L column and he's got a 19% losing percentage. This more accurately reflects the PRIME Chuck Liddell that all of us knew. I'd say that against Chuck in his prime, his opponent probably had about a 20% chance of beating him.

-Randy, on the other hand, has his losses sprinkled throughout his career. His absurdly high losing percentage is due to the fact that he, despite a high age, hasn't fought that often, and didn't start fighting until he was in his mid thirties. Randy started fighting at age 34. He's only been fighting for 13 years. And before people go and praise him for doing it at such a late age. I have a nice little number you should consider.

-In Randy's 13 year career, he's averaging JUST above 2 fights per year. No wonder he's still winning at a late age, he's only fighting once every 5.5 months.