Is Dave Meltzer past his prime?

[Psykohurricane55]

First of all, this isn't a anti-meltzer thread. This is just something i wanted to post based on some of his reports that came out lately that were proven to be false, either by WWE doing the complete opposite or by other wrestling reporters or other people in the business and podcasters calling him out on some of the stuff his reported through the years.

I'm not the bigger Meltzer fan, in fact, i'm not a big dirt sheet guy to begin with. I think that getting info from a third hand source and then publishing that is dumb and shouldn't be publish if you're a good reporter. But i've got to give it to Meltzer, the guy is a wrestling fan first and a reporter second. When he writes stories about guys that just past away, i think he's probably one of the best in the business. It's just everything else that kinda feel sketchy at best, especially now in the social media age when you can pretty much publish anything you want and can fact check any story out there. I feel like Meltzer way of doing things doesn'T work anymore. It easier then ever to make him look like a complete dumbass just by reading anything he reported and then coming up with facts that proven the complete opposite of what he reported.

When he started the newsletter, a small group of fans cared about finding out what was going on backstage. The internet didn't really exist or was in his infancy and it was easier to fabricate stories that would sell because nobody would be able to verified those stories. Now, it's easier then ever and we know as much about meltzer himself and then we know about the inside of the wrestling business. Still, he's still regarded as the godfather of newsletters and that something he earn, the only problem his that i feel that time has past him buy and that what his way doesn't work as well in today's culture where everything is out then when he first started in the business.

 

[LibSuperstar]

Doubt it. He seems to nail most things. Taz said on his podcast that sometimes promotions leak stuff out to throw which I definitely believe. Given the nature of the wrestling business is plans can change so it makes it trickier to verify things as w/ other fields.

 

[Remix]

Dave Meltzer has always sucked in whatever regard you want to use. Real talk, he is a shit journalist he was just one of the first on the scene. He writes like a constipated middle schooler. He talks like a rambling freshman who hasn't rehearsed a damn thing. He doesn't investigate shit, he just posts what his friends tell him. His views and respect towards women are abhorrent.

Dave Meltzer is less a journalist and more a guy with a blog that made connections years ago and uses the fact that he's established in the scene to gain the only credibility he has. I'll respect him and his opinions when he can out report a 10 year-old

 

[FromGlasgow]

To be honest I don't know a lot about him or follow anything he says, I hear his name mentioned often and know he first started the 5 star match rating but I have never cared about knowing this either as I prefer to draw my own opinions about matches, I have watched highly rated matches in the past to me felt like fake acrobatic nonsense with about 200 near falls, Probably some I agree with but I don't care enough to research it to check. Too many sheep who only think certain wrestlers or matches are good because Meltzer says so.

 

[enviousdominous]

Dave Meltzer is nothing if not consistent. As the OP alluded; the environment has changed, but Dave Meltzer has always been good old Dave Meltzer. Does his style work for this new age of information proliferation? Sure, if you're a discerning prowrestling fan.

I remember reading the Wrestling Observer Newsletter back in early 1990s, it was pretty mindblowing. He didn't deliberately try to ruin kayfabe for those of us who still believed that it was all real, more like he was weaning us off of kayfabe and into the business aspect of the artform.

These days the internet pretty much ruins everything, mostly by accident. Kayfabe is effectively dead for anyone old enough to use the internet. I think the majority of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter patrons are reading it for Dave's insights into backstage politics, and cautious interest in his predictions. There's also the fact that it's probably the most cited publication for prowrestling news websites like this one.

I think that Dave has never changed, I've always taken his assumptions with a grain of salt. He obviously has a better mind for journalism than most prowrestling fanatics.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

I think that getting info from a third hand source and then publishing that is dumb and shouldn't be publish if you're a good reporter.

How do you think most news on TV these days is reported? Actually, I take that back. Most news these days is just analysts breaking down what someone wrote about someone else's third hand source.

Dave hasn't changed in 30 years. He's still an autistic rambling dude who can't string a sentence together, and he's still the foremost and most reliable wrestling journalist ever.

 

[ABMorales787]

So here's an anecdote. I write about wrestling in Puerto Rico. I have sources that work inside the local promotions. WWC, WWL, CWA, etc. This time last year, WWC's top title, their Universal Championship, was vacant. The reason being they had no top star to hold it. Mr. 450 was injured in 205 Live. In the midst of that, they had a mass exodus. Why? Because the title was vacated in January. I was told the plan was to bring in guys like Bobby Lashley, Jeff Hardy and Damien Sandow to work with younger talents from the promotion in a "Foreigners vs Youngsters" type tournament. As that was going on at the same time as a heel faction started up.

But then they scrapped the foreigners because they were very expensive. Idea 2 was veterans vs youngsters. Then came problem #2. No veteran wanted to lose to a youngster. As that was going on, PW Insider's #2 Rookie of 2017 Ray Gonzalez Jr was being pushed to the moon. Problem is he sucks. Badly. Especially in comparison to the guys on the roster. He was being paid above them. Pushed above them. And that tournament they spoke of in January hadn't started up yet by March or April. So these guys left for greener pasture. Why stick around if no one has a clue of what's going on? Hell, some of those guys were telling me they were promised a program with someone, next week, they're told something else.

In the end, the tournament ended up in this very lousy 4 person format that somehow resulted in Mr. 450 winning it a month after against a 5th person, the booker Ray Gonzalez Sr, losing the title the next night for a very stupid reason and he split. Making the whole reason the title was vacant in the first place pointless.

Now why did I tell this seemingly irrelevant story? Well, for one to brag about getting "insider knowledge". Two, to show just how truly insane a promotion's creative process can be. If a small time promotion has that hard a time with one story imagine a company as complex as WWE that has such a gigantic workforce. Dave Meltzer has to sort all of that out to write a weekly newsletter and weed out as much useful information as you can.

Insider sources are a risky thing and you gamble with every single story you write because a company, especially one as fickle as WWE, can very well just go the opposite route for the sole purpose of screwing with a news source. Hell, they do it with the betting odds now too.

Is Dave fucking horrible at radio? Oh, hell yes he is. Thank God he has Bryan Alvarez as the main podcaster of the website because holy shit, is Dave a drag to listen to. But there's a reason he's the one every one looks to even after 30+ years of reporting. You may have other great reporters out there like John Pollock, Sean Ross Sapp and so on. But in the end, Dave Meltzer is the one everyone looks to. And that will always be the case for as long as he's around because he knows the utter pain sorting out the "hear-says" of any person willing to snitch info to him better than anyone else.

 

[LibSuperstar]

So here's an anecdote. I write about wrestling in Puerto Rico. I have sources that work inside the local promotions. WWC, WWL, CWA, etc. This time last year, WWC's top title, their Universal Championship, was vacant. The reason being they had no top star to hold it. Mr. 450 was injured in 205 Live. In the midst of that, they had a mass exodus. Why? Because the title was vacated in January. I was told the plan was to bring in guys like Bobby Lashley, Jeff Hardy and Damien Sandow to work with younger talents from the promotion in a "Foreigners vs Youngsters" type tournament. As that was going on at the same time as a heel faction started up.

But then they scrapped the foreigners because they were very expensive. Idea 2 was veterans vs youngsters. Then came problem #2. No veteran wanted to lose to a youngster. As that was going on, PW Insider's #2 Rookie of 2017 Ray Gonzalez Jr was being pushed to the moon. Problem is he sucks. Badly. Especially in comparison to the guys on them roster. He was being paid above them. Pushed above them. And that tournament they spoke of in January hadn't started up yet by March or April. So these guys left for greener pasture. Why stick around if no one has a clue of what's going on? Hell, some of those guys were telling me they were promised a program with someone, next week, they're told something else.

In the end, the tournament ended up in this very lousy 4 person format that somehow resulted in Mr. 450 winning it a month after against a 5th person, the booker Ray Gonzalez Sr, losing the title the next night for a very stupid reason and he split. Making the whole reason the title was vacant in the first place pointless.

Now why did I tell this seemingly irrelevant story? Well, for one to brag about getting "insider knowledge". Two, to show just how truly insane a promotion's creative process can be. If a small time promotion has that hard a time with one story imagine a company as complex as WWE that has such a gigantic workforce. Dave Meltzer has to sort all of that out to write a weekly newsletter and weed out as much useful information as you can.

Insider sources are a risky thing and you gamble with every single story you write because a company, especially one as fickle as WWE, can very well just go the opposite route for the sole purpose of screwing with a news source. Hell, they do it with the betting odds now too.

Is Dave fucking horrible at radio? Oh, hell yes he is. Thank God he has Bryan Alvarez as the main podcaster of the website because holy shit, is Dave a drag to listen to. But there's a reason he's the one every one looks to even after 30+ years of reporting. You may have other great reporters out there like John Pollock, Sean Ross Sapp and so on. But in the end, Dave Meltzer is the one everyone looks to. And that will always be the case for as long as he's around because he knows the utter pain sorting out the "hear-says" of any person willing to snitch info to him better than anyone else.

Thank you for your insight. You touched on the few reasons why I give Meltzer much leeway as I mentioned above.

 

[Steak]

Go to his wiki page. Read it. You'll find out that it's often not that he's wrong, it's that plans actually do change because people find out he knows and will spoil it.

You can't get mad at it, it would happen to you too. When he says but 'plans could change at anytime', he's not saying that as an excuse, it's happened to him thousands of times.

Same thing as 'possibility of overtime' at our jobs.

His job is to report things we aren't supposed to see or know, you know how hard that is to do as accurately as he does it?

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Go to his wiki page. Read it. You'll find out that it's often not that he's wrong, it's that plans actually do change because people find out he knows and will spoil it.

Yeah I do find it funny people make fun of Meltzer when he's wrong when the same fans 99% were probably predicting predicting that Reigns would win the title at this year's Mania.

The thing is plans do change in the WWE on the fly and, as Cornette mentioned before, Vince seems to change his mind on something 5 times a day. As much as we have social media now its still hard to keep up with up to date information when McMahon can't seem to make a firm decision when it comes to booking.

I think the best example of this is when they decided that Rollins would cash in his MITB contract at WM31 while the event has already started. I mean if at WM decisions are still being made while the event is already going on, what more for other shows?

A lot of people who hate Meltzer seem to just for the sake of it. When Meltzer criticizes the WWE but praises NJPW people accuse him of being a WWE-hater but somehow when Meltzer said he liked the Reigns/Lesnar match at this year's Mania they also bash him for praising the WWE.

 

[Louis The Giant]

I say no. Dave still has his pulse on what is going on in the wrestling business. He is the man to go to to either confirm a rumor or deny a rumor. He is still at the top of his game as a wrestling journalist.

 

[d_henderson1810]

So here's an anecdote. I write about wrestling in Puerto Rico. I have sources that work inside the local promotions. WWC, WWL, CWA, etc. This time last year, WWC's top title, their Universal Championship, was vacant. The reason being they had no top star to hold it. Mr. 450 was injured in 205 Live. In the midst of that, they had a mass exodus. Why? Because the title was vacated in January. I was told the plan was to bring in guys like Bobby Lashley, Jeff Hardy and Damien Sandow to work with younger talents from the promotion in a "Foreigners vs Youngsters" type tournament. As that was going on at the same time as a heel faction started up.

But then they scrapped the foreigners because they were very expensive. Idea 2 was veterans vs youngsters. Then came problem #2. No veteran wanted to lose to a youngster. As that was going on, PW Insider's #2 Rookie of 2017 Ray Gonzalez Jr was being pushed to the moon. Problem is he sucks. Badly. Especially in comparison to the guys on the roster. He was being paid above them. Pushed above them. And that tournament they spoke of in January hadn't started up yet by March or April. So these guys left for greener pasture. Why stick around if no one has a clue of what's going on? Hell, some of those guys were telling me they were promised a program with someone, next week, they're told something else.

In the end, the tournament ended up in this very lousy 4 person format that somehow resulted in Mr. 450 winning it a month after against a 5th person, the booker Ray Gonzalez Sr, losing the title the next night for a very stupid reason and he split. Making the whole reason the title was vacant in the first place pointless.

Now why did I tell this seemingly irrelevant story? Well, for one to brag about getting "insider knowledge". Two, to show just how truly insane a promotion's creative process can be. If a small time promotion has that hard a time with one story imagine a company as complex as WWE that has such a gigantic workforce. Dave Meltzer has to sort all of that out to write a weekly newsletter and weed out as much useful information as you can.

Insider sources are a risky thing and you gamble with every single story you write because a company, especially one as fickle as WWE, can very well just go the opposite route for the sole purpose of screwing with a news source. Hell, they do it with the betting odds now too.

Is Dave fucking horrible at radio? Oh, hell yes he is. Thank God he has Bryan Alvarez as the main podcaster of the website because holy shit, is Dave a drag to listen to. But there's a reason he's the one every one looks to even after 30+ years of reporting. You may have other great reporters out there like John Pollock, Sean Ross Sapp and so on. But in the end, Dave Meltzer is the one everyone looks to. And that will always be the case for as long as he's around because he knows the utter pain sorting out the "hear-says" of any person willing to snitch info to him better than anyone else.

Maybe Dave should stay away from revealing spoilers or match results before they happen then.

It is one thing if he were reporting things we would never find out on our own, like some backstage incident or a wrestler's personal life, but I can understand wrestling companies not wanting things they planned or results to leak out, and changing plans in order to protect their plans. People here complain about "predictability", but that happens when Dave tells you what will happen on RAW before it is broadcast.

Also, Dave makes allegations he has never backed up. He insists that WM3 only had 70,000, not 93,173 in attendance, and people believe him, despite failing to produce one shred of evidence to back up his claim (and he is the one making the allegation, and calling WWE liars, so he has to PROVE that ONLY 70,000 attended).

It is easy for a journo or a blogger on here to get liked and respected. Just tell the masses what they already think, and confirm their biases, prejudices and mistrust, and you have a loyal audience. Dave has survived so long by giving his audience what they want. So, he knows what sells, and it isn't always truth that sells.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Yeah I do find it funny people make fun of Meltzer when he's wrong when the same fans 99% were probably predicting predicting that Reigns would win the title at this year's Mania.

The thing is plans do change in the WWE on the fly and, as Cornette mentioned before, Vince seems to change his mind on something 5 times a day. As much as we have social media now its still hard to keep up with up to date information when McMahon can't seem to make a firm decision when it comes to booking.

I think the best example of this is when they decided that Rollins would cash in his MITB contract at WM31 while the event has already started. I mean if at WM decisions are still being made while the event is already going on, what more for other shows?

A lot of people who hate Meltzer seem to just for the sake of it. When Meltzer criticizes the WWE but praises NJPW people accuse him of being a WWE-hater but somehow when Meltzer said he liked the Reigns/Lesnar match at this year's Mania they also bash him for praising the WWE.

I don't think Meltzer is biased towards WWE if he thinks Lesnar/Reigns at WM was something he liked. I think it means that he is blind! That was a shit match!

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Here the reason I started this thread in the first place. I get that Meltzer as a job to do and that for a legion of fans, his word is gold even if in recent years, he's been expose by some peoples in the industry as fabricating stuff to get fans interested in his newsletters.

The problem is that, Meltzer is pretty much what mean gene was in the 90's with the wcw hotline, he's kinda a relic of the past with everybody that is able to write and fabricate stuff easier then Meltzer is. Sure, Meltzer as a great mind and respect for wrestling and the best stuff aren't reporting the "news" anymore, it's his obituary article and stories about the past. As for as everything else is concern, he's like everybody else, he a fan that has a opinion, he like a certain style of wrestling and will put that over stuff that he don't like. In the end, he did as much harm to the business as he did good and is a respected guy within the community, but I feel just like alter then he really needs to move on and leave this to the younger generation.

 

[ABMorales787]

Maybe Dave should stay away from revealing spoilers or match results before they happen then.

It is one thing if he were reporting things we would never find out on our own, like some backstage incident or a wrestler's personal life, but I can understand wrestling companies not wanting things they planned or results to leak out, and changing plans in order to protect their plans. People here complain about "predictability", but that happens when Dave tells you what will happen on RAW before it is broadcast.

Also, Dave makes allegations he has never backed up. He insists that WM3 only had 70,000, not 93,173 in attendance, and people believe him, despite failing to produce one shred of evidence to back up his claim (and he is the one making the allegation, and calling WWE liars, so he has to PROVE that ONLY 70,000 attended).

Child, calling a box office and asking for attendance clicks is not that hard. And secondly, WWE admitted in their Wrestlemania quarterly conference call that they inflate attendance for ''storyline purposes''. No shit that they didn't have 101,000 fans because a huge chunk of the stadium was used for the entrance stage. There's plenty of proof. By WWE itself that releases their earnings and tickets. You're just in denial because you can't accept he's right.

It is easy for a journo or a blogger on here to get liked and respected. Just tell the masses what they already think, and confirm their biases, prejudices and mistrust, and you have a loyal audience. Dave has survived so long by giving his audience what they want. So, he knows what sells, and it isn't always truth that sells.

Sure. Believe that if you want. Even though there's 30 years worth of Observers to prove you ignorant.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Sure. Believe that if you want. Even though there's 30 years worth of Observers to prove you ignorant.

Not to defend the guy but how much of what dave as written in these 30 years is true and how much was pure speculation to get fans to buy is newsletter? In the age where every major name in the business as a podcast, it's getting harder and harder for dave to hide the fact that he did fabricated stuff just to sale his newsletter. He'S pretty much what Gene okerlund was in WCW with the hotline, he'S a salesman selling what the hardcore wrestling fans wants. They want to know what's going on backstage especially in WWE and that'S what he's been giving them for 30 years. Not everything is true but really does it really matter to that fanbase of his, Not really, he'S still going to be respected for what he did for all the time just like Bill apter was for another generation of fans.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Child, calling a box office and asking for attendance clicks is not that hard. And secondly, WWE admitted in their Wrestlemania quarterly conference call that they inflate attendance for ''storyline purposes''. No shit that they didn't have 101,000 fans because a huge chunk of the stadium was used for the entrance stage. There's plenty of proof. By WWE itself that releases their earnings and tickets. You're just in denial because you can't accept he's right.


Sure. Believe that if you want. Even though there's 30 years worth of Observers to prove you ignorant.

But what was the point in Meltzer pointing it out, and also, how does he know it was "closer to 70,000".

Even if it wasn't the same number the WWE stated, why did Melzter do this other than to embarass the WWE?

Meltzer is definitive that it was 70,000, even though it could have been more.

Besides, has Meltzer ever said that WWE have underestimated their figures, and more attended than they thought? No, because, as a journo, he gets more hits on his site by reporting negative news about WWE, rather than positive news.

You just believe it because you hate WWE.