This was something I always thought to myself. I see a lot of Mick Foley in Bray Wyatt. Both are very weird, odd wrestlers. Both are loved and hated by the WWE universe. Heck, even Mick himself stated that he sees a lot of him self in Bray. I just can't help it anytime I see Bray on TV I see a lot of Mick in him. Even though their move sets are different, I still think of Bray as a Mick foley of this generation. But I am sure he will be a lot better than Mick. What are your thoughts?
Is Bray Wyatt This Generation's Mick Foley?
- Thread starter AlexWWE21
- Start date
CrucifiedRaven
The Evenflow Effect
It's hard to compare any new star to Mick Foley, because like it or not Mick got over by doing some crazy shit.
Bray Wyatt might be comparable to pre-HAIC 98 Mankind. Like you said, weird, odd, misunderstood yet charismatic. But post-HIAC Mick Foley is on a whole other level. The bumps he took in ECW, Japan.. or HIAC/KOTR 98, at RR99, at RR2000 or No Way Out 2000... I don't think anyone, ever, will be comparable to post-HIAC Mick Foley.
He got over by doing some of the most insane things ever in the business. If anyone could do that, or top that, of course they'd get over and they'd deserve it, but it will never happen. Bray will never be as over as Mick in this regard because he's 1) not the dare-devil Mick was 2) will never be allowed to be the dare-devil Mick was.
Bray Wyatt might be comparable to pre-HAIC 98 Mankind. Like you said, weird, odd, misunderstood yet charismatic. But post-HIAC Mick Foley is on a whole other level. The bumps he took in ECW, Japan.. or HIAC/KOTR 98, at RR99, at RR2000 or No Way Out 2000... I don't think anyone, ever, will be comparable to post-HIAC Mick Foley.
He got over by doing some of the most insane things ever in the business. If anyone could do that, or top that, of course they'd get over and they'd deserve it, but it will never happen. Bray will never be as over as Mick in this regard because he's 1) not the dare-devil Mick was 2) will never be allowed to be the dare-devil Mick was.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
For the most part, I'm not really seeing a whole lot of similarities between them. Wyatt's deceptively athletic and hasn't had to resort undertaking career & life threatening spots to get himself over. I don't mean that to sound like a jab at Foley, I've always been a huge fan of him from his days as Cactus Jack. Also, while Foley's dangerous bumps and hardcore style have been essential to his legacy, his passion and ability to connect with the fans has as much to do with him becoming a major star. Not to undercut Foley's hardcore stuff but, to be fair, he was doing all that stuff a full decade before coming to the WWF, but it wasn't until he really was given opportunities to connect with fans through passionate promos instead of just his unorthodox antics inside the ring.
Anyhow, I've gotten off track a bit. Foley's Mankind character circa 1996 through much of 1998 was more along the lines of some deranged mental patient with sadomasochistic tendencies. Wyatt's a charismatic, albeit deranged, backwoods preacher who's message is chaos and death to the world as we know it. If the two of them were to be paired together, I'd see Mankind as a tool or weapon Wyatt would use to help spread his gospel with Wyatt ultimately being the one holding Mankind's leash.
Anyhow, I've gotten off track a bit. Foley's Mankind character circa 1996 through much of 1998 was more along the lines of some deranged mental patient with sadomasochistic tendencies. Wyatt's a charismatic, albeit deranged, backwoods preacher who's message is chaos and death to the world as we know it. If the two of them were to be paired together, I'd see Mankind as a tool or weapon Wyatt would use to help spread his gospel with Wyatt ultimately being the one holding Mankind's leash.
Reflection
is a happier and wiser man
Maybe, but in a different way. I don't think Wyatt can (or will look to) outdo Foley in the hardcore style of wrestling; in fearlessly pulling off painful and dangerous stunts. Mick will always be the number 1 to me in terms of that. Bray Wyatt can be great in his own cryptic and mysterious ways, but for that to happen, he will have to keep delivering brilliant performances consistently while necessarily remaining unique but not becoming repetitive. The "he's got the whole world in his hands" song got boring after a while but he kept singing it week after week. He'll have to take notice of things like that. Then we have the world championship picture which is already quite full, and the mid card championships which are more of a curse than a boon for a wrestler aiming to be in the main event. Can he win enough titles and have enough memorable moments to become a legend of this era and be seen in the same level as the Hardcore Legend? Time will tell. He still has a lot to prove and accomplish. It's still too early. Hopefully the "it's coming" thing will play out well.
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
No...not at all. The comparison doesn't work because both were different styles in the ring and out of it. Foley was never the "preacher" type, even in his "Cane Dewey" phase... he was more the man angry at the world/fans. Bray is more about "seducing them" to his way of thinking. Character wise the truer comparison is Bray and Jake The Snake during his heel turn with Warrior and Savage.
Foley became a hardcore icon but many forget he could work when he wanted to as a solid brawler as well. Bray is neither. It amazes me that some diss his in ring work, it just proves how desensitized some have become and how used to the WWE template being guys like Edge, Punk, Shawn or giants rather than the traditional WWE "big man".
Bray is agile and still relatively new... he is closer to a Big Bossman in his style in the ring. What Bray doesn't do in terms of moves all the time, he has in terms of facials and taunts. The Spider Walk is arguably the best in the WWE for a LONG time... Where it doesn't link into a move, it can have some great impact. Imagine Bray facing the Rock and Rock beginning the People's Elbow... taking off the pad, off the 2nd rope and BANG... Bray is in the Spider Walk... imagine Dwayne's reaction and the pop...
Where Foley and Bray ARE similar is that they are connecting with the fans outside of the normal WWE channels and using innovative means to do so... Much is made of the Foley "cheap pop", and it's something Bray also uses. It's not actually cheap at all, it's pretty clever. It only becomes cheap if everyone does it... cos most don't it worked for them and they had a connotation that fit the character... with Foley there was the ironic humor of it... "I don't NEED the cheap pop, but I'm gonna take it any way and give the fans a kick..." even down to his promo this week with the "undisclosed sum per month"... Foley was using the convention against itself... with Bray, it's a fear and anticipation builder, it's a "turn on your flash now" and the mood changes. They used music and entrances and even exits, Mankinds first iteration for example is still one of the best ever, where ominous music played on the way to the ring and after the win a piano lullaby and he'd rock like a toddler hugging a teddy. Bray uses the chair/lantern on the way in and the kneeling pose on the way out...
I could see Bray taking on multple characters or variations like Foley did and we're kind of seeing that with the "It's coming" and freeing Harper and Rowan.
Foley became a hardcore icon but many forget he could work when he wanted to as a solid brawler as well. Bray is neither. It amazes me that some diss his in ring work, it just proves how desensitized some have become and how used to the WWE template being guys like Edge, Punk, Shawn or giants rather than the traditional WWE "big man".
Bray is agile and still relatively new... he is closer to a Big Bossman in his style in the ring. What Bray doesn't do in terms of moves all the time, he has in terms of facials and taunts. The Spider Walk is arguably the best in the WWE for a LONG time... Where it doesn't link into a move, it can have some great impact. Imagine Bray facing the Rock and Rock beginning the People's Elbow... taking off the pad, off the 2nd rope and BANG... Bray is in the Spider Walk... imagine Dwayne's reaction and the pop...
Where Foley and Bray ARE similar is that they are connecting with the fans outside of the normal WWE channels and using innovative means to do so... Much is made of the Foley "cheap pop", and it's something Bray also uses. It's not actually cheap at all, it's pretty clever. It only becomes cheap if everyone does it... cos most don't it worked for them and they had a connotation that fit the character... with Foley there was the ironic humor of it... "I don't NEED the cheap pop, but I'm gonna take it any way and give the fans a kick..." even down to his promo this week with the "undisclosed sum per month"... Foley was using the convention against itself... with Bray, it's a fear and anticipation builder, it's a "turn on your flash now" and the mood changes. They used music and entrances and even exits, Mankinds first iteration for example is still one of the best ever, where ominous music played on the way to the ring and after the win a piano lullaby and he'd rock like a toddler hugging a teddy. Bray uses the chair/lantern on the way in and the kneeling pose on the way out...
I could see Bray taking on multple characters or variations like Foley did and we're kind of seeing that with the "It's coming" and freeing Harper and Rowan.
OYDK
King Of The Ring
Call me crazy, but to me personally, I think Dean Ambrose more resembles the Mankind character than anybody else. Obviously, I'm not necessarily talking about looks or in-ring ability here, but more their backstory and the style they take when cutting promos. Bray Wyatt is more calm and calculated whereas Mankind and Dean Ambrose come off as more psychotic. They both scream and rant make weird noises when they cut promos (and in the ring for that matter), and pull stupid stunts when they don't get what they want like Foley throwing Rock's "$10 000" into the crowd or Ambrose "rigging" Rollins' briefcase.
The crowd loves Dean Ambrose with a passion despite the fact that he may look a little.... greasy(?) and is not built like a Cena or Rock, much like they did Mankind. Also, they both come from an extremely hardcore background and you can see similarities in the ring; Dean Ambrose is hitting big spots weekly and taking some risks, and I think he's actually incorporated both the Double-Armed DDT and the outside elbow drop in his moveset the past couple of weeks. If Dean Ambrose were competing in the Attitude Era I would pay BIG money to see an Ambrose/Mankind Street Fight, as I think Ambrose is obviously restricted in a lot of things with the PG rating.
Just my opinion, but every time I see Ambrose in the ring, I'm reminded of a watered down version of Mankind, and that's not a knock on Ambrose. I think he's great but like I said restricted. If WWE went back to TV14, I think the similarities would show much more.
The crowd loves Dean Ambrose with a passion despite the fact that he may look a little.... greasy(?) and is not built like a Cena or Rock, much like they did Mankind. Also, they both come from an extremely hardcore background and you can see similarities in the ring; Dean Ambrose is hitting big spots weekly and taking some risks, and I think he's actually incorporated both the Double-Armed DDT and the outside elbow drop in his moveset the past couple of weeks. If Dean Ambrose were competing in the Attitude Era I would pay BIG money to see an Ambrose/Mankind Street Fight, as I think Ambrose is obviously restricted in a lot of things with the PG rating.
Just my opinion, but every time I see Ambrose in the ring, I'm reminded of a watered down version of Mankind, and that's not a knock on Ambrose. I think he's great but like I said restricted. If WWE went back to TV14, I think the similarities would show much more.
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
I can understand the tendency to compare them, yet, except for their girth, they aren't very much alike. The closest Foley came to Bray-ness was at the beginning of his depiction of Mankind; both Bray & Foley were hard to understand because it was difficult to decipher what in hell they were talking about: the words were clear, the message wasn't.
As Foley went along, he became more normalized, and by the time he was fighting Rock for world championships, he no longer resembled the old Mankind who spoke to us from boiler rooms.
Bray Wyatt, on the other hand, has remained as weird as he was when introduced. He's been on a mission, although it's virtually impossible to tell what kind, while Foley had no real direction, at least at the beginning. No one knew why he wanted to war with Undertaker....he just did.
Plus, while Bray needs followers, Foley went it alone. I don't look at his teaming with Rock as having needed him; by the time this phase of his career arrived, the Foley/Mankind we watched in the ring could almost qualify as comedy relief.....and no comparison to Bray would be applicable.
I'd be interested to read exactly what Foley thinks he sees in Bray Wyatt that's similar to himself.
As Foley went along, he became more normalized, and by the time he was fighting Rock for world championships, he no longer resembled the old Mankind who spoke to us from boiler rooms.
Bray Wyatt, on the other hand, has remained as weird as he was when introduced. He's been on a mission, although it's virtually impossible to tell what kind, while Foley had no real direction, at least at the beginning. No one knew why he wanted to war with Undertaker....he just did.
Plus, while Bray needs followers, Foley went it alone. I don't look at his teaming with Rock as having needed him; by the time this phase of his career arrived, the Foley/Mankind we watched in the ring could almost qualify as comedy relief.....and no comparison to Bray would be applicable.
I'd be interested to read exactly what Foley thinks he sees in Bray Wyatt that's similar to himself.
Good Golly It's Ollie
Magical Girl
I would love for you to explain what you think makes good in-ring performances, or why you think Bray is worse in the ring than Mick.
I actually think Bray is stronger in the ring but weaker on the mic than other people seem to think. Example: his promos, while weird and cool, often lose vocal clarity as he drops down on the end of sentences and goes really quiet. Occasionally the scripting leaves you thinking "Okay, what the hell is he trying to say? I get that everyone is "sheep" but beyond, that, what?" It is in danger of becoming the Del Rio situation (yes I am about to compare Bray and Alberto on the mic, shut up), where basically he started off good but just ended up saying the same stuff ... for three years: "win title tore groin destiny destiny destiny etc." I think that's why we're seeing a reduced TV time, so that they can actually put some thought into new material.
Athletically, as Jack-Hammer said, he's deceptive. His spine is ridiculously bendy (you try bending over backwards like that, there's a reason that is an expression for putting in a lot of effort for something), he is surprisingly fast, and I've seen the guy do really awesome looking running sentons.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you all now.
I'm a big fan of Bray Wyatt and I hope to see him succeed. I want to see Bray Wyatt as a WWE champion and I want him to have as good a career as Mick Foley. I think in order for him to be successful, sooner or later he will need to turn face. I think as a face he could feud with the Authority and who wouldn't love a Wyatt-HHH match?
I'm a big fan of Bray Wyatt and I hope to see him succeed. I want to see Bray Wyatt as a WWE champion and I want him to have as good a career as Mick Foley. I think in order for him to be successful, sooner or later he will need to turn face. I think as a face he could feud with the Authority and who wouldn't love a Wyatt-HHH match?
Papa Pillman
I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan
I concur with most that the comparisons are limited.
Their body size is definitely a similarity, and the early Mankind promos are definitely comparable in some manner to Bray's shtick on the mic. But beyond that they are two very different personalities.
Bray is a second generation wrestler brought up in the WWE system who has gotten over on presence and owning a unique character. While Mick was already a seasoned performer around the world before getting his real shot in WWE, and he got over on sacrificing his body and just in general exuding heart and being easy to root for.
If you want to look for a more direct comparison for Foley, the closer parallel may be Kevin Steen. Beyond the obvious physical similarities, there are many other things that link the two performers. Both are wrestling "lifers" who grew up big fans and started training and debuted while still teenagers. Both established and a name and built a fanbase wrestling across North America and other parts of the world before getting their WWE break. Both often did that while working a more hardcore style. They are similarly strong and convincing on the mic as well. As another bit of symmetry, Steen turned thirty years old earlier this year, the same age Mick was when he debuted as the Mankind character in WWE.
Their body size is definitely a similarity, and the early Mankind promos are definitely comparable in some manner to Bray's shtick on the mic. But beyond that they are two very different personalities.
Bray is a second generation wrestler brought up in the WWE system who has gotten over on presence and owning a unique character. While Mick was already a seasoned performer around the world before getting his real shot in WWE, and he got over on sacrificing his body and just in general exuding heart and being easy to root for.
If you want to look for a more direct comparison for Foley, the closer parallel may be Kevin Steen. Beyond the obvious physical similarities, there are many other things that link the two performers. Both are wrestling "lifers" who grew up big fans and started training and debuted while still teenagers. Both established and a name and built a fanbase wrestling across North America and other parts of the world before getting their WWE break. Both often did that while working a more hardcore style. They are similarly strong and convincing on the mic as well. As another bit of symmetry, Steen turned thirty years old earlier this year, the same age Mick was when he debuted as the Mankind character in WWE.
While they may have the same body types that's where the similarity ends. There is only one Mick Foley and there will never be another. No one today would take the kind of bumps he did.
The day that Cole yells "God Almighty they've killed him. As God is my witness, they broke him in half", I'll say they are similar. Until then just no.
The day that Cole yells "God Almighty they've killed him. As God is my witness, they broke him in half", I'll say they are similar. Until then just no.
Wyatt has all of 4 moves maybe... and that's it...
I don't think he sells things particularly well for his opponents working on the offense.
I also can see him talking to his opponents a lot throughout a match, and while I know wrestlers need to do this to set up moves properly, he doesn't hide his communication well at all.
Finally, all his matches feel the same to me. Whether on RAW, Smackdown or a PPV. The best seem to find a way to elevate PPV matches, but I don't think Wyatt has done that. His matches with Cena on PPV's were decent, but Cena makes everyone else look better by how he works.
Good Golly It's Ollie
Magical Girl
I personally don't have an issue with this, there are plenty of wrestlers on the roster for whom this is the case, and I'm sure it's part of the WWE match style that means he uses less moves than he can actually do.
Okay, I will have to see about this when he's next on. I haven't noticed it myself.
Yeah, fair enough. But the HD world and improved sound tech make this harder to do well anyway, I think. Cena's just as guilty, as are many other guys there.
I don't personally agree with this, or rather, I see what you mean but consider it a non-issue. Match structure is generally quite limited in WWE from week to week. As for PPV it probably could be better but they're selling the storyline, not the technical ability. The reason why Daniel Bryan is such a success for example, is not because of his technical ability. He got everyone into his character, producing several memetic phrases while presenting the appearance of a downtrodden, suppressed midcarder which made people pull for him to succeed.
Nice to hear back from you, I see where you're coming from a bit better now.
A lot of wrestlers do this. John Cena is notorious for this. It's not uncommon in the WWE anymore.
I can see some similarities but there will won't be another Foley due to the circumstances now and regulations. Foley defied all odds and had arguably one of the worst wrestling physiques any "top guy" has probably ever had (was a huge Foley fan, not taking anything from him). As it was mentioned he had already had runs in several companies and had his ear ripped off by Vader before he had ever even made to WWE. Bray is only 26 and is IRS' son/comes from a wrestling family. Foley was toothless and pulling chunks out of his hair during segments and matches.
I think a more accurate comparison is Dean Ambrose - fought through the indies, plays the unhinged character, basically brawls, isn't super physically imposing and yes - now using the Double Arm DDT. His character isn't as developed as Foley's and I think the limitations of the PG era make it difficult to fully do the "crazy" gimmick.
I have to disagree with everyone saying how bad Bray is in the ring. He has a unique style and a pretty cool moveset - the Senton, the big Uranage slam, he smashes people with the running diving forearm thing and of course Sister Abigail which I think is one of the coolest finishers in recent years. He's also deceptively fast and agile for a guy of his size. The "cult leader" gimmick reminds me of the Ministry of Darkess and I think he may eventually form a new stable.
All in all more remains to be seen with this redeployment of him on past night's PPV. Hopefully WWE doesn't screw it up again.
I think a more accurate comparison is Dean Ambrose - fought through the indies, plays the unhinged character, basically brawls, isn't super physically imposing and yes - now using the Double Arm DDT. His character isn't as developed as Foley's and I think the limitations of the PG era make it difficult to fully do the "crazy" gimmick.
I have to disagree with everyone saying how bad Bray is in the ring. He has a unique style and a pretty cool moveset - the Senton, the big Uranage slam, he smashes people with the running diving forearm thing and of course Sister Abigail which I think is one of the coolest finishers in recent years. He's also deceptively fast and agile for a guy of his size. The "cult leader" gimmick reminds me of the Ministry of Darkess and I think he may eventually form a new stable.
All in all more remains to be seen with this redeployment of him on past night's PPV. Hopefully WWE doesn't screw it up again.
Scrotie McBoogerballs
Occasional Pre-Show
Bray is this generations Papa Shango. Cut's vignettes talking some voodoo nonsense and jobs out to the bigger stars. There are a few jobber to the stars in WWE right now.
Bray Wyatt
Cesaro
Kofi
Miz
Mark Henry
Big Show
Kane
Their sole roles are enhancement of others.
Bray Wyatt
Cesaro
Kofi
Miz
Mark Henry
Big Show
Kane
Their sole roles are enhancement of others.
