Int'l Region, Fourth Round, 60 Min Iron Man Match:(2) The Rock vs. (3) Shawn Michaels

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the International Region. It is a 60 Minute Iron Man match, held at the First District Arena in Leeds, England.

Rules: The match will run for sixty minutes and the most falls in that time wins. A fall is decided by pinfall, submission, countout or disqualification.

#2. The Rock

Vs.

#3. Shawn Michaels

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

The Rock could not have been placed in a worst stipulation match with Shawn Michaels. He was only in one and it was in a losing effort to Triple H- the guy who gets poked fun at a lot for "not being as good as HBK". Triple H would go on to lose another Iron Man to Benoit and a ringside Eugene at the height of Evolution. Shawn Michaels won the first ever Iron Man Match against a prime Bret Hart, and set the record for longest Iron Man at over 60 minutes in overtime. He was only in one other Iron Man, but it was a tie with Kurt Angle. If allowed to go into overtime, it could be argued Shawn Michaels would have won that too.

Shawn Michaels has never lost in an Iron Man Match. Rocky has. Michaels didn't lost any title in said match. Rocky has. If anyone can provide a good argument for The Rock here I'm willing to change my mind and thus my vote but until then I'm voting for Shawn Michaels.

 

[Big Sexy]

The Rock could not have been placed in a worst stipulation match with Shawn Michaels. He was only in one and it was in a losing effort to Triple H- the guy who gets poked fun at a lot for "not being as good as HBK". Triple H would go on to lose another Iron Man to Benoit and a ringside Eugene at the height of Evolution. Shawn Michaels won the first ever Iron Man Match against a prime Bret Hart, and set the record for longest Iron Man at over 60 minutes in overtime. He was only in one other Iron Man, but it was a tie with Kurt Angle. If allowed to go into overtime, it could be argued Shawn Michaels would have won that too.

Shawn Michaels has never lost in an Iron Man Match. Rocky has. Michaels didn't lost any title in said match. Rocky has. If anyone can provide a good argument for The Rock here I'm willing to change my mind and thus my vote but until then I'm voting for Shawn Michaels.

Not all matches are created equal.

1. Prime Rock >>>>>>>>> Prime Bret Hart
2. The Rock lost his Iron Man match because he was screwed by a BS finish that gave Triple H the winning fall by DQ despite the fact that HHH had far more interference on his side.

Rock and HBK are two of my favorite wrestlers of all time but The Rock is better and would win here.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The Rock could not have been placed in a worst stipulation match with Shawn Michaels. He was only in one and it was in a losing effort to Triple H

That match he put on ten times the performance that HBK did in his respective Iron Man match?


Comparing a VCR to a Blu-ray player here. Not to mention the Rock could draw more in a month than HBK did for his entire prime.


People will probably vote for Shawn because of his "great in ring work" while bypassing the fact that the Rock is pretty much superior on every level. The former is just what you have had shoved down your throat for the last decade by WWE.

 

[Tastycles]

I just think the fact that the Rock is a bigger star, more decorated and more widely known than Michaels means that he would win this match. Michaels has lost a lot of matches over the years to wrestlers exactly like Rock - ones that were more over with the audience than he was. Michaels deserves respect, but I don't care that he's won one of these matches before - I just don't see him ever beating The Rock.

 

[Bernkastel]

That match he put on ten times the performance that HBK did in his respective Iron Man match?


Comparing a VCR to a Blu-ray player here. Not to mention the Rock could draw more in a month than HBK did for his entire prime.


People will probably vote for Shawn because of his "great in ring work" while bypassing the fact that the Rock is pretty much superior on every level. The former is just what you have had shoved down your throat for the last decade by WWE.

Rock isn't better on every level. Rock had shit longevity, and it was clear that he was never going to reach the heights he had seen previously prior to leaving the company. So I'm torn about how big a star the Rock was in 2000. Since he did little to improve WWE's standings once the industry as a whole took a dip a few years later.

However he's still better than Shawn Michaels, and would win here even if Shawn has a bit of a stipulation advantage. Rock versus pretty much anyone Shawn has beaten thus far would have been more interesting to debate. Shame.

 

[klunderbunker]

Here's the stat of the match.

Rock's record in matches where he competes 25 minutes or more: 1-7-1

Wrestlemania XXVIII – 30:33 W
Wrestlemania XVII – 28:06 L
Royal Rumble 2001 – 38:42 L
Armageddon 2000 – 32:14 L
Judgment Day 2000 – 60:08 L
Wrestlemania XVI – 36:28 L
Summerslam 1998 – 26:01 L
Fully Loaded 1998 – 30:00 D
Royal Rumble 1998 – 51:34 L

Shawn's record in matches where he competes 25 minutes or longer: 10-10-2

Wrestlemania XXV – 30:41 L
Unforgiven 2008 – 26:53 W
Royal Rumble 2008 – 32:39 L
Raw – April 23, 2007 – 55:49 W
Wrestlemania XXIII – 28:21 L
Raw - October 3, 2005 D
Vengeance 2005 – 26:54 L
Wrestlemania XXI – 27:25 L
Bad Blood – 47:23 L
Backlash 2004 – 30:08 L
Raw – December 29, 2003 – 29:12 D
Armageddon 2002 – 35:25 L
Summerslam 2002 – 27:19 W
In Your House XVIII – 30:01 W
In Your House X – 26:25 W
King of the Ring 1996 – 26:25 W
Wrestlemania XII – 61:25 W
Royal Rumble 1996 – 26:09 W
Summerslam 1995 – 25:03 W
Royal Rumble 1995 – 38:41 W
Royal Rumble 1994 – 29:17 L
Survivor Series 1992 – 26:40 L

Rock can talk and can draw, but he sinks when matches go long. Shawn is one of the only guys in the modern era with extensive experience in longer matches and he's one of the few with a solid record in them. With this one going 60 minutes guaranteed, I see Rock's guard going down late in the match and him eating a few superkicks to give Shawn some quick falls. Yeah there will be Rock Bottoms and elbows, but Rock will choke, as he did so often. Rock doesn't win the long matches, especially if we're talking in his prime. Shawn has won long matches in both sections of career and should win here.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Have to give it to the Rock here and I really hate to say that as I like and respect HBK a hell of a lot more, however, here's why:

The Rock is the bigger draw, bigger name, better on the mic, and all that. We all know that. However, he can't hold a candle to Shawn Michaels in the ring. Few can. Also, HBK is known as the man that can go and he won the most important Iron Man match in history. An argument could definitely be made for HBK, but here's why he loses this match, IMO. Shawn's best ring work and most important moments are arguably all in losing efforts. Sure he has the one foot Rumble moment and the Boyhood Dream moment, but those are just about his only significant winning moments and those were nowhere near his best performances. What I'm saying, is that this is going to be a hell of a match. Shawn is going to go out there and he's going to have everybody believing that he'll win. After all, he's the Showstopper, the Main Event, the Icon. Unfortunately, the Rock is the Great One and one of the three biggest names in wrestling history and ole HBShizzle just doesn't perform well against the guys on the Rock's level. Hogan beat HBK, Austin beat HBK, Cena beat HBK, and if he had've ever faced the Rock, he would've beaten HBK too.

Vote Rock.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm gonna be voting Shawn because when I think or iron man matches, especially the hour long variety, I'm taken back to six year old me watching Wrestlemania with my dad and grandpa and watching my guy HBK beat Bret Hart, then celebrating along with Shawn as the boyhood dream came true.

 

[zhaff2004]

The Rock wins this one.

The Rock drew more, was the better talker, was more charismatic and was a better guy backstage than HBK. HBK is the better in ring wrestler, no doubt there, but Rocky can certainly go as well.

The Rock beat just about everyone that there is in the industry, beating Austin in his prime, Taker in his "prime," Hogan right after the NWO and even Cena in his prime. Not many people can boast that resume. Hell, a washed up, broken down Hogan beat HBK at Summerslam.

HBK is great, but The Rock transcends the business.

There is a reason HBK tried to hold The Rock back all those years ago, he knew that Rocky was going to take his spot.

Rock over HBK irrespective of the match type.

 

[stingray11214]

People are giving HBK no love, huh? Well, to quote a famous Blackpoolian, "I'm afraid I've got some bad news." HBK wins this. Everyone forgets that HBK was not just an accomplished singles wrestler. He was an accomplished tag wrestler as well. He spent time with Marty Janetty in both the AWA and WWF. He was an incredibly gifted wrestler. When he came back after his back injury, he was even better. The Rock, though he might transcend the business, had a very limited career. Sure, he drew money and could talk. But, in a 60 minute Iron Man? HBK would make the Rock smell what HBK was cooking. Vote HBK.

 

[Dragon Chief]

I think when it comes down to it The Rock would go over here simply because he is the bigger star. Shawn Michaels is known for putting over young talent including the likes of Steve Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, John Cena, Jeff Hardy etc.. The Rock is a bigger star than almost all those guys and in a big match like this I don't see the company putting HBK over The Rock, even if it is an iron-man match.

Vote: The Rock

 

[klunderbunker]

I think when it comes down to it The Rock would go over here simply because he is the bigger star. Shawn Michaels is known for putting over young talent including the likes of Steve Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, John Cena, Jeff Hardy etc.. The Rock is a bigger star than almost all those guys and in a big match like this I don't see the company putting HBK over The Rock, even if it is an iron-man match.

Vote: The Rock

What company? This is international and held in England, where Shawn was put over both John Cena and British Bulldog. There is no company here.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Well, here is the deal.

HBK has been in one 60 man Iron Match and won, Rock's been in one and lost. And you know, people have made a lot about not putting emphasis on stips. Well why the fuck do we have stips then? If we don't do this fucking thing to be competitive we could just throw in Rock, Hogan, Austin, Cena and have a vote every year.

Its because you have to take the stip, region seriously too for fucks sake! I hate it when people just go ' Oh but he is a bigger draw har har' like bloody sheeps.

Here is the deal, Rocks prime was after Austin left till lets say 2002? Shawns starting from 96 from 98. Ok so how are they in long matches compared:

Here's the stat of the match.

Rock's record in matches where he competes 25 minutes or more: 1-7-1

Wrestlemania XXVIII – 30:33 W
Wrestlemania XVII – 28:06 L
Royal Rumble 2001 – 38:42 L
Armageddon 2000 – 32:14 L
Judgment Day 2000 – 60:08 L
Wrestlemania XVI – 36:28 L
Summerslam 1998 – 26:01 L
Fully Loaded 1998 – 30:00 D
Royal Rumble 1998 – 51:34 L

Shawn's record in matches where he competes 25 minutes or longer: 10-10-2

Wrestlemania XXV – 30:41 L
Unforgiven 2008 – 26:53 W
Royal Rumble 2008 – 32:39 L
Raw – April 23, 2007 – 55:49 W
Wrestlemania XXIII – 28:21 L
Raw - October 3, 2005 D
Vengeance 2005 – 26:54 L
Wrestlemania XXI – 27:25 L
Bad Blood – 47:23 L
Backlash 2004 – 30:08 L
Raw – December 29, 2003 – 29:12 D
Armageddon 2002 – 35:25 L
Summerslam 2002 – 27:19 W
In Your House XVIII – 30:01 W
In Your House X – 26:25 W
King of the Ring 1996 – 26:25 W
Wrestlemania XII – 61:25 W
Royal Rumble 1996 – 26:09 W
Summerslam 1995 – 25:03 W
Royal Rumble 1995 – 38:41 W
Royal Rumble 1994 – 29:17 L
Survivor Series 1992 – 26:40 L

Rock can talk and can draw, but he sinks when matches go long. Shawn is one of the only guys in the modern era with extensive experience in longer matches and he's one of the few with a solid record in them. With this one going 60 minutes guaranteed, I see Rock's guard going down late in the match and him eating a few superkicks to give Shawn some quick falls. Yeah there will be Rock Bottoms and elbows, but Rock will choke, as he did so often. Rock doesn't win the long matches, especially if we're talking in his prime. Shawn has won long matches in both sections of career and should win here.

Advantage Shawn. Look, Rock was a way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger draw than Shawn but in their primes and taking the stip into consideration I think HBK takes it with the slightest edge.

And ye, people like to be cool sometimes and say how WWE is being braying about how awesome HBK is. Thats coz he was. He was fluid and smooth and by gawd when greats like Austin (who is biased to no fucking one), Flair (maybe biased) and Bret fucking Hart (come on) say it, believe it.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think we all know who the bigger draw was- The Rock. HBK wasn't a hugely grossing Champion like Rocky was, but I don't think that's the biggest factor here. The stipulation is. And Shawn's won the only Iron Man match he's ever been in, becoming WWE Champion in the process.....and The Rock lost his, ending up dropping the title to HHH.

KB has posted the career records of both men in matches going longer than 25 minutes, and Shawn's is far superior to The Rock's. In his later career I'd say Shawn would have come up just short, but in his prime I see him taking a beating but eventually hitting a Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere to get the deciding pinfall- winning 3-2.

Vote Shawn.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

I hate HBK with all of the passion you can hate a person you have never met before. Most of his matches suck, he couldn't talk, he is apparently even a total prick post-finding The Jesus, DX was lame, etc.

...But this is the perfect stipulation for him against Rock. He can go the distance, Rock not so much. And this isn't a situation where Rock would outsmart HBK like Bork did to Angle when he gave up a fall on purpose to weaken Kurt significantly later on - Rock was dirty but it was always far more an in the moment dirtiness.

Begrudgingly, vote HBK.

 

[nightmare]

I can see Rock going for a People's Elbow, Shawn jumping up as Rock bounces off the rope & hitting him with Sweet Chin Music.... and that is just one way HBK will take out Rock in this match.


For as athletic as Rock is, he sure does not have great stamina at times or has ever shown the ability to really get the job done in longer matches. Sure he is great at selling some close call near falls, but when it comes down to it he has lost those matches more often than not. Evidence of that has been shown thanks to KB & based on that I have to give this to Shawn.


I love The Rock & HBK both, but this one give Shawn enough of a edge to justify my choice without feeling bad.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I would like to use this opportunity to draw attention to just how much better The Rock's sixty minute iron man match is than Shawn Michaels' sixty minute iron man match. Like, watch them. Just watch them. In terms of rivalries, give me Rock versus Triple H over Michaels versus Bret Hart any day.

It's also important to point out how The Rock only lost his match because a) The Undertaker is thick as shit and b) Shawn Michaels is a politicking little bastard, even as a referee.

Michaels is rivalled perhaps only by Flair as far as having his legacy inflated by the WWE machine goes.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

The Rock wins this one.

The Rock drew more, was the better talker, was more charismatic and was a better guy backstage than HBK. HBK is the better in ring wrestler, no doubt there, but Rocky can certainly go as well.

The Rock beat just about everyone that there is in the industry, beating Austin in his prime, Taker in his "prime," Hogan right after the NWO and even Cena in his prime. Not many people can boast that resume. Hell, a washed up, broken down Hogan beat HBK at Summerslam.

HBK is great, but The Rock transcends the business.

There is a reason HBK tried to hold The Rock back all those years ago, he knew that Rocky was going to take his spot.

Rock over HBK because I'm a huge mark.

That's the real reason, right? Rock avatar, you admitting that HBK is the better wrestler etc...

HBK goes over Rock here. The Ironman match against Bret Hart is proof of it.

Shawn Michaels goes over Bret Hart, 1-0. In the 61:56 that this match lasted, Shawn Michaels was pinned & submitted a total of ZERO times. Bret Hart never once got a 3-Count, or made HBK tap.

Triple H went over The Rock in an Ironman match 4 years later. Yeah, you'll all say HBK isn't as great as HHH, but we've all got our heads up our asses for someone. My point is, Triple H beat The Rock, 6-5. That means, in the 60:00 that the match lasted, The Rock was pinned, or made to tap out FIVE whole times.

Shawn Michaels can last an entire hour without taking a pin, or tapping out, should he need to. Rock doesn't have that, at all. Technically, once every 12 minutes, HBK could make Rocky tap, or pin him quick. The Sweet Chin Music is a huge advantage too, a finishing move that you could surprise him out of nowhere with.

I like that your Rock hard-on is playing into the match, but sometimes, as Rock would here, you just have to admit defeat.

 

[Shocky]

Did Shawn Michaels actually win a 60 minute iron man match, no? He wrestled to a draw, the match ended while he was locked in the sharpshooter, and he won in sudden death, a stipulation the champ didn't even agree to. Michaels lucked out with the bell ringing and Hart letting go of the hold. The Rock is more than capable of hanging with Michaels, and physically he was more superior than Hart or Michaels.

 

[klunderbunker]

Did Shawn Michaels actually win a 60 minute iron man match, no? He wrestled to a draw, the match ended while he was locked in the sharpshooter, and he won in sudden death, a stipulation the champ didn't even agree to. Michaels lucked out with the bell ringing and Hart letting go of the hold. The Rock is more than capable of hanging with Michaels, and physically he was more superior than Hart or Michaels.

Again, I'd point out that Rock doesn't last well late into matches. He gets sloppy and prone to errors, like a superkick to the face. As for your point about the Bret match, that puts Shawn at 0-0-2, which is better than Rock's 0-1.

Rock is good, but Shawn is the better choice in the ring for a long match like this. He pinned Cena clean and he beat Bret Hart in a match lasting over an hour clear. Rock has one win when a match breaks thirty minutes and he got lucky in that one. This is Shawn's.

 

[Bernkastel]

Oops, voted for Michaels on accident. Didn't realize that the match was that close. If the match does come down to a tie, then I'll write in a vote for Rocky.

Although to be fair the arguments for Michaels do make sense. So I can see the justification.

 

[GI Cake]

No amount of eyebrow wiggling can get Rock out of some Sweet Chin Music. Shawn Michaels has the manliest chest hair in the world and the Rock was seen with a fanny pack. Shawn takes this one easily.

 

[klunderbunker]

I know this seems like Rock's win if you don't think about it all that much, but let's think about it instead. Along with the records in long matches (Rock is really, really bad in them), there's this to consider: Shawn is at his best when he looks like he has no chance. Yeah Shawn looks like he's in over his head here, but that's happened before.

In Your House VII vs. Diesel in a no holds barred match: Shawn wins a classic.

In Your House XVIII vs. Undertaker inside the Cell: Shawn wins a classic.

Summerslam 2002 vs. HHH in an unsanctioned match: Shawn wins a classic.

Raw on April 23, 2007 vs. WWE Champion John Cena in a 53 minute match: Shawn wins a classic.

Shawn wins the matches where he comes in as a huge underdog, and what better kind of match is there for him than one where he's down late and makes a big comeback? It's what Shawn did in his three WWE Title reigns which combined for 396 days. By comparison, Rock won it eight times for 367 days. Shawn was able to hold onto the belt a lot longer than Rock because, as we've covered, Shawn is better in the big matches when the pressure is on and that's what's going on here.

Vote for Shawn because this is the perfect scenario for him.

 

[Tastycles]

Shawn is at his best when he looks like he has no chance.

Yeah, remember at WrestleMania 25 when he looked like he had no chance and then... oh he lost. And WrestleMania 26 when he looked like he had no chance and then, and then, oh yeah he lost. And WrestleMania XIV against Austin when it looked like he had no chance. Yep, turned out he had no chance and lost. And then there was WrestleMania 23 against John Cena where the odds were stacked against him and he... lost.

Or what about the ladder match against Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X, against a bigger opponent. Yep. Lost that one too. But then he went up against his bigger, stronger, former body guard in Diesel at WrestleMania XI. Nobody thought he had a chance, and well, he didn't. Because he lost yet another big match.

You've picked out four examples from his entire career when he overcame the odds, and included obscure In Your House matches and something off Raw. Just by looking at WrestleMania alone, it's easy to see loads of examples of him not overcoming the odds. At all.

Whatever way you look at it, Shawn Michaels is a loser. His singles win against Bret Hart at WrestleMania XII is one of 4 wins he had in his entire career at WrestleMania. The other wins were against Jericho - the only main eventer that loses more than Michaels, Ric Flair, aged 59 and Vince McMahon, a non-wrestler.

Shawn Michaels isn't as good as The Rock, didn't achieve as much as The Rock and in no way deserves to beat The Rock. Whether you 'think about it' or not.