Int'l Region, Fourth Round, 3 Stages Match: (4) Bret Hart vs. (9) Ultimate Warrior

Who Wins This Matchup?

  • Bret Hart

  • Ultimate Warrior


Results are only viewable after voting.

klunderbunker

Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
This is a fourth round match in the International Region. It is a 3 Stages of Hell match, held at the First District Arena in Leeds, England.

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Rules: This match is the best 2/3 falls. The first fall is a street fight, the second fall is a ladder match and the third fall is a steel cage match with wins coming by pinfall, submission or escaping the cage.

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#4. Bret Hart

Vs.

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#9. Ultimate Warrior



Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
 
Ultimate Warrior only conceded 2 falls in 5 years, he's not going to concede two in a match. 1st up the Street Fight. Hart wrestled in one, but failed to win it. Warrior has shown himself to completely no-sell weapons shots in the past, and I see no reason why he wouldn't here.

The ladder match is probably Hart's best bet, but he lost the only two he was ever in.

He also has lost a cage match to Sycho Sid - a guy much bigger and more powerful than him, just like the Warrior.

I honestly think I'd give Warrior the win in any of those stipulations, but here he can afford to lose one of the falls and still win, and that is what I think he'll achieve here.

Bret Hart may have had more interesting matches, but it is of absolutely zero coincidence that the company started a downturn in business with him on top. He was a great wrestler, but not up to the standard and scratch of being the top man in the promotion. There were other factors, sure, but the fact remains that under Warrior, the numbers remained pretty constant, so it's not just the effect of the Hogan vacuum.
 
Bret Hart isn't fucking with Warrior in a street fight or a cage match. Straight up.


He is however, for all intents and purposes, the originator of the ladder match.

Hart was more prolific for longer, but never reached close to the heights the Warrior did at his apex.

Hart obviously is the superior worker, but its probably a lot closer than people think. Common opinion is that Warrior was carried and "given" his best matches by great workers, but close examination of some of those "great" workers show they had many of THEIR best matches with Warrior, and boring matches elsewere. So maybe Warrior was far above average, and really got things going when paired with another great worker?


Id say a vote either way could be justified, with the stipulation slightly tilting towards Warrior.
 
Have to go with Warrior here.

Tasty has already said it, but I'll say it again as I see it as the main point in this match. The Ultimate Warrior is not going to lose two falls(twice) in one match. Hell, Warrior probably wouldn't lose twice in the same month.

Whether you're one of those that like to argue criteria: Drawing, ring work, mic skills, influence, etc. Or you're one of those that like to argue Kayfabe; the Warrior is easily the choice here. Hart was never as over as the Ultimate Warrior in his prime and, as has already been said, the Warrior just isn't going to lose twice in one match.

I don't even think Hart will get the ladder match victory.

Vote Warrior.
 
I think people are looking at this stop in entirely the wrong way. You see Warrior having to take two falls to lose. I see "holy shit, in two of these matches, Bret doesn't even have to pin Warrior to win."

Bret is A LOT smarter than Warrior. He could use that first match to fuck Warrior over for the other two. Just work his legs the entire night. I'm not saying he'd sacrifice it, I'm saying he would use it to beat him long term and get the fall in the first if he can.
 
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It is apparent that Bret Hart drew more than Ultimate Warrior, therefore Hart would go over just like many others should go over this round based on their drawing power. Just look at the way Hart captures Ric Flair's essence with the words "Watch Out For The Chop Kid". Truly one of the greats and could draw practically unrivaled in this tournament. Since of course that's what most of us are going with in these matches.
 
Fan of both these guys and I can see Warrior coming out on top in the street fight but the other two stipulations seem to favour Bret Hart more, he is much more agile and intelligent in the ring and would have no issues keeping Warrior down long enough to climb up the ladder and escape the cage. Also keep in mind Warrior isn't use to going the distance in matches, most of his matches lasting about five minutes while Bret Hart goes the distance in almost all his matches. Bret Hart took out Goldberg with a steel plate tucked in his abdomen and I'm sure he'd have no issue playing dirty and outsmarting Warrior who is similar in wrestling style to Goldberg, to come out on top.

Vote: Bret Hart.
 
I'll put up a testament later but I think, and I maybe right on this

Didn't Warrior lose to Savage in a cage match in MSG? And that maybe his only cage match experience
 
This is quite an interesting match, one I would have definitely enjoyed seeing.

The way I saw it initially, Warrior didn't lose often at all, so it would be incredibly difficult for Bret to beat him twice in one night, but the longer I considered it...I think he could.

Yeah, I'd definitely give Warrior the advantage in the street fight. A guy with that strength, that intensity coming at you with a weapon...damn! Hart would have to focus on trying to chop Warrior down, injuring his legs as much as possible in the first fall...but I still think he'd lose, and probably pretty quickly too.

Bret's advantage would come in the 2nd fall. He's quicker and more agile than Warrior, plus has more experience in ladder matches. If he'd been successful in wearing down Warrior's legs in the first fall, he could use that weakness to his advantage too, as Warrior would be slower and less mobile than before. If your legs are damaged, it's alot harder to climb a ladder. In this fall too, Warrior would start to blow up, he didn't work long matches, unlike Hart who could go for a long time and would start to pick apart Warrior's limbs with submissions. I expect we'd see The Sharpshooter and Figure 4 round the ring post.

With the score tied at 1-1, we head into the cage. This is where the stamina really comes into play and Warrior would be exhausted here, and barely able to stand. Bret's a very intelligent competitor, he'd find a way to take advtange of one of the multiple ways to win a cage match.

2-1 win for Bret here, but both men would have taken a beating.
 
The whole basis for Warrior going over Flair last round was at A.) He drew allot B.) he was nearly unbeatable. Let's keep that consistent because Bret did neither and he's nothing compared to Ric Flair.

Ultimate Warrior sweeps both falls in less than 10 minutes, while Bret Hart cries in the ring.
 
The whole basis for Warrior going over Flair last round was at A.) He drew allot B.) he was nearly unbeatable. Let's keep that consistent because Bret did neither and he's nothing compared to Ric Flair.

Ultimate Warrior sweeps both falls in less than 10 minutes, while Bret Hart cries in the ring.

I like this logic, I REALLY like this. I would pay to see that crybaby finally break down in tears. Waahhh Attitude Era, waahhh degenerates, waahhh Shawn gyrates his hips in the ring, waahhh!


Truth be told this match has so many elements that I am trying to imagine all the scenarios, I ll take a stab here:

The first fall is Street fight and Bret tries to keep sharpshootering him because dumb dumb won't do anything 'illegal' and 'dishonorly' to beat Warrior. Warrior keeps powering out. Hart finally snaps and hits him with chair shots but Warrior just shakes the ropes Gorilla Press on chair and pin. WHAMO! Warrior....

Go on someone do the second fall...
 
I think I will take Warrior on this one even though Bret has always been my favorite alongside Macho Man. Realistically this match is going 1-1 into the 3rd fall, I don't see either guy taking 2 straight victories so it would come down to the cage match. Both guys have had good success in the cage but since the Warrior often wrestles like a caged animal the cage would be right down his alley. Granted, Bret is a smart guy and could use his knowledge to help tilt the scale in his favor, he could most certainly win but I got to give the advantage to Warrior.

A cage match really seems to suit someone like Warrior, I don't think Bret could make Warrior tap (although that could have changed since rumor has it Warrior was supposed to lose to the Sharpshooter at RR '93) or keep him down long enough for Bret to escape as he isn't the fastest guy getting out of the cage. I could see Bret catching Warrior for a quick 3 but I think there's a better chance of Warrior hitting the Gorilla Press Slam, big splash and climbing over the cage just before Bret can crawl out the door.

If the 3rd fall was the ladder match I probably would've taken Bret but since its the cage I think Warrior is the safer bet. I'll reserve my vote for later as I can definitely be persuaded but as of now my vote goes to Warrior.
 
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hogan-steroid-king.jpg



flair-cartoon.jpg


It is apparent that Bret Hart drew more than Ultimate Warrior, therefore Hart would go over just like many others should go over this round based on their drawing power. Just look at the way Hart captures Ric Flair's essence with the words "Watch Out For The Chop Kid". Truly one of the greats and could draw practically unrivaled in this tournament. Since of course that's what most of us are going with in these matches.

The Ultimate Warrior drew too. Not only that, he could write pseudo-intellectual inspirational quotes.

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Also, you know, he wrestled Bret Hart in tag matches in WCW and won them all.

Always Believe,
Tastycles
 
I think this is a match more suited for Bret Hart's style than Warriors, particularly the three type of matches for each fall. I definitely don't think that Bret could pin Warrior two times out of three matches. No do I think Warrior would submit either. But you don't have to win by pinfall or submission in a Ladder Match, nor a Cage Match (though you can in that case, but you don't have to), which works in Bret's favor.

Bret is smart and crafty in the ring as he's proven so many times. He played possum on so many guys and and pinning them out of nowhere with crafty roll-ups, or moves no one would've thought of. And his strategy in matches is second to none. He always had a game plan and was always a step ahead in the ring, no matter how good his opponent was. Bret would easily outsmart the Warrior. It's just a matter if Warrior would beat Bret quickly and easily.

I think ultimately Warrior would win the Street Fight, as this is the match where the winner has to win by pinfall, and Warrior was pinned far less than Bret. Bret would put up a fight but Warrior would win. As crafty as Bret is, he would probably try to wear Warrior down with submissions, particularly with Warrior's legs. But in the end Warrior win. This would not be a quick 2-3 minute match like others are saying. For those thinking Bret is just a technical wrestler and couldn't win a Street Fight, look at his Submission Match at WM 13 against Steve Austin (which he won). Look at his match at In Your House with Davey Boy Smith that was No DQ. Davey his similarly powerful to Warrior. Bret won that one. And then there's the title match against Diesel at Survivor Series. Another No DQ match, against a guy much bigger than Warrior. Bret won that one too. Bret would put up a good fight, but ultimately lose.


Then we're onto the Ladder Match. A brutal match that Warrior never wrestled in and that Bret originated. But more importantly, no pinfalls or submissions. This match, is all about craftiness and the ability to climb the ladder. All Bret has to do is wear Warrior's legs down (which he would more than likely do in the Street Fight), and he could tie him up in the ropes, just long enough for him to climb the Ladder. Or something crafty like that. Bret would do anything to win, and that's exactly what he'd do here.


Then we get to the Cage Match, a match that both were successful at, particularly at Summerslam. As Warrior beat Rick Rude at Summerslam 90 in the cage, and Bret did the same to Owen Hart at Summerslam 94. This would probably be the most even match, as by the time this fall takes place, both men will be extremely worn out (Warrior probably moreso). Bret has the advantage though as he doesn't have to pin Warrior or make him submit. He can climb to escape the cage or leave the door. Warrior obviously can too. But in the end, I could see Bret finally getting the sharpshooter on Warrior. Warrior starts to power out of it, but Bret doesn't let him and puts the Sharpshooter back on. This time Warrior doesn't get out of it and passes out. The ref can either stop the match and award it to Bret, or Bret simply lets go and exits the cage, advancing in the tournament.


Bret should win this.
 
If we're going to call out Bret for not drawing, we may want to look at Warrior in the same light. When was Warrior a massive draw? He wasn't. He had one huge match... with Hulk Hogan. When it was Warrior's turn to carry the flag, he failed. It didn't even last a year and he never recovered.

Do I think Warrior was the problem? No, not at all. No one was going to follow Hogan and do well, which is the trap Bret fell into.

I agree Warrior would probably win due to the type of match they're in, but calling it due to Warrior being some major success is inaccurate. Neither men did huge business while on top.
 
If we're going to call out Bret for not drawing, we may want to look at Warrior in the same light. When was Warrior a massive draw? He wasn't. He had one huge match... with Hulk Hogan. When it was Warrior's turn to carry the flag, he failed. It didn't even last a year and he never recovered.

Do I think Warrior was the problem? No, not at all. No one was going to follow Hogan and do well, which is the trap Bret fell into.

I agree Warrior would probably win due to the type of match they're in, but calling it due to Warrior being some major success is inaccurate. Neither men did huge business while on top.

The business under Warrior dropped off, no doubt, but the Saturday Night Main Events etc he headlined were getting 10s as opposed to Hogan's 13s. Bret Hart never drew anything close to that.
 
The business under Warrior dropped off, no doubt, but the Saturday Night Main Events etc he headlined were getting 10s as opposed to Hogan's 13s. Bret Hart never drew anything close to that.

Bret Hart only had one Saturday Night's Main Event episode occur while he was champion, and that was the November 1992 episode where Shawn Michaels won the I-C Title. Yes, he had one shot at drawing as much as Hogan and Warrior, but Warrior had 3 episodes as champion to draw. Not to mention WWE was already in the decline of ratings by the time Bret became champ. And another thing to add was this episode of Saturday Night's Main Event (the last one until 2006) aired on FOX, which in 1992 was not near as prevalent a TV channel as NBC was. Nothing on FOX (except maybe the Simpsons) at the time, got the ratings that shows on NBC did.

So yes, you could say that Bret's episode on Saturday Night's Main Event as the champ was a ratings failure. But again, he only had one episode on a smaller network compared to Warrior's three episodes and Hogan's 20+ episodes on a much bigger TV Network. So it's really not all that fair to compare.
 
Hart may take this and will be squashed in the next draw. He will be the easiest to beat next draw.
 

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