Int Region, San Fran Subregion, Round 1: (10) Chris Benoit vs. (23) Frank Gotch

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the International Region, San Francisco Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the Cow Palace, San Francisco, California.

#10. Chris Benoit

Vs.

#23. Frank Gotch

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[IHW]

Benoit, in his prime, was the best in-ring guy IMO. He could handle a beating. He could dish out a beating. Benoit will take this win because of the amazing in-ring skills he had through out his career.

 

[Gelgarin]

But for the whole 'slaughtering his family' thing, Chris Benoit was a footnote. A smark favourite footnote to be sure, but ultimately still an irrelevant detail in the annals of history. When the most attention you ever receive is when you die it's a pretty good sign that you weren't that big a deal.

Chris Benoit was often thought of as one of the greatest technical wrestlers of his generation; but unfortunately he's going against one of the greatest catch wrestlers of all time, and he doesn't stand a change. He'll still win, but that's simply a result of the whole 'people are ******ed' problem that I have already spoken on at length.

Chris Benoit was never good enough to be a top guy in the company. He had his little insignificant run near the top of the card (playing a very obvious second fiddle to HHH even when he was the world champion) before being demoted back down to the world of the US championship and ECW. It's going to cost me points of IWC street cred, but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway:

But for the murder suicide, Chris Benoit was not that big a deal.

And then we have Frank Gotch. Undisputed king of his generation. The man who brought pro wrestling to the US and without whom Benoit wouldn't even have had a job. Arguable best catch wrestler of all time. Holder of the record for highest live gate longer than anyone in the history of the business. I'd give you a prolonged post on Gotch's accomplishments but, truth be told, if you aren't already aware of why this man was so critical then there's probably no hope for you, and I've just been served curry.

Vote Gotch because it's the only sensible option.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Chris Benoit was always a great midcarder until he hit his stride in the WWE years and dominated with intensity and in-ring prowess. That being said, Frank Gotch was never a midcarder. Frank Gotch is a name that will be remembered fondly by wrestling historians for generations. Chris Benoit is a name that is reviled and spat upon. Gotch beat Hackenschmidt to be the second every world heavyweight champion (the real kind), and retired undefeated.

On the kayfabe side, Benoit always had great offense, but his defense was not always up to par. There's no way Chris Benoit gets out of Gotch's punishing finishing holds.

Gotch, by northern lights suplex pinning combination. 53 minutes.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Chris Benoit was always a great midcarder until he hit his stride in the WWE years and dominated with intensity and in-ring prowess. That being said, Frank Gotch was never a midcarder. Frank Gotch is a name that will be remembered fondly by wrestling historians for generations. Chris Benoit is a name that is reviled and spat upon. Gotch beat Hackenschmidt to be the second every world heavyweight champion (the real kind), and retired undefeated.

On the kayfabe side, Benoit always had great offense, but his defense was not always up to par. There's no way Chris Benoit gets out of Gotch's punishing finishing holds.

Gotch, by northern lights suplex pinning combination. 53 minutes.

Seriously, how are people coming up with the timings for these things!? That's such a specific timing for a victory and I have no idea where that number is coming from? Is there a secret formula or something!?

Anyway, from what I've read on Wikipedia and Gelgarin, it seems that Gotch is where the smart money is. However I feel uncomfortable just going for someone down to text on a page and having not seen them perform. Due to the time period in which Gotch performed in I know this is impossible, but having seen Benoit perform regularly I know the man was a good performer. His lack of mic skills is often brought up, but this wouldn't play a part and having seen how closely these guys were matched physically as well as how intense a performer Benoit could be, I would LOVE to have seen a simulation or something with these two guys competing. Gotch would likely still win, but Benoit did have a wealth of experience from wrestling in different promotions and countries that would have made it an interesting match to behold. Oh well!

 

[Poop Master Flex]

EDIT: I read it wrong as I am talking about Karl not Frank. Ironically was reading about Karl Gotch when I saw this thread so yeah my bad, so lets start again.

Frank Gotch would take this one easily. Considering the guy was world champion at a time the results weren't pre-determined so there is no question that he was tough. Also he was a legitimate draw during his time.

Chris Benoit was one of my favorites growing up, was a tremendous technical and submission wrestler and I'm sure this match would go for a long while but Gotch was simply better in pretty much every aspect.

Frank Gotch wears down Benoit's ankle and foot eventually making him tap to the Ankle Lock.

Thanks for the correction Gelgarin.

 

[The Gribbler]

I saw Chris Benoit in his prime, I did not see Gotch. I can only say that Benoit in the ring was near flawless. I cannot see anyone dominating him, and due to my lack of knowledge I am selecting Benoit.

HOWEVER, I will google, wiki and youtube Gotch before I actually cast my vote.

 

[jazzua]

I saw Chris Benoit in his prime, I did not see Gotch. I can only say that Benoit in the ring was near flawless. I cannot see anyone dominating him, and due to my lack of knowledge I am selecting Benoit.

HOWEVER, I will google, wiki and youtube Gotch before I actually cast my vote.

You're going to youtube Frank Gotch huh? Let me know how that goes.

This goes to Gotch. A bigger deal than Benoit ever was. Gotch was one of the fathers of wrestling in this country. Benoit, while always worth a good match, was really nothing more than that. Gotch wins this because he's Gotch. But he also wins it for everything Benoit wasn't. It's probably a long match, but Gotch would tire down Benoit in the end.

 

[Jaffa]

I'm voting for Benoit don't really care about what Gotch did for wrestling in America as I'm Australian. Benoit could do everything that is why i am voting for him as well as it does not matter who the bigger deal was.

 

[The Gribbler]

You're going to youtube Frank Gotch huh? Let me know how that goes.

This goes to Gotch. A bigger deal than Benoit ever was. Gotch was one of the fathers of wrestling in this country. Benoit, while always worth a good match, was really nothing more than that. Gotch wins this because he's Gotch. But he also wins it for everything Benoit wasn't. It's probably a long match, but Gotch would tire down Benoit in the end.

Lol after having Wiki'd him I realize that Youtubeing him will be impossible. I will point out when I made that comment I had little idea who Gotch was and admitted to that .

After the wiki search, I think Gotch would pull the victory in the context of who they were in the time they were in. However straight up one on one, I think benoit would win if they ever fought, ninety years of wrestling innovation would not go unrewarded.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Benoit will win, but he shouldn't GOtch is a bonafide wrestling legend. Benoit was the original "smark favorite" who could never draw money. His biggest asset was his workrate which was great, but he's outgunned here against a truly feared shooter. Basically, GOtch did everything Benoit did, but he also drew massive amounts of money, because, you know, people wanted to see him do it. People can piss and moan about Benoit all they want, but the facts are that people did not turn out to see him in masses.

Oh yeah, and he's a murdering scumbag asshat who doesn't deserve to be recognized with any honor for anything, ever.

Vote Gotch. He did everything Benoit did, but better, and he drew money. And he didn't kill his wife and child.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Seriously, how are people coming up with the timings for these things!? That's such a specific timing for a victory and I have no idea where that number is coming from? Is there a secret formula or something!?

Anyway, from what I've read on Wikipedia and Gelgarin, it seems that Gotch is where the smart money is. However I feel uncomfortable just going for someone down to text on a page and having not seen them perform. Due to the time period in which Gotch performed in I know this is impossible, but having seen Benoit perform regularly I know the man was a good performer. His lack of mic skills is often brought up, but this wouldn't play a part and having seen how closely these guys were matched physically as well as how intense a performer Benoit could be, I would LOVE to have seen a simulation or something with these two guys competing. Gotch would likely still win, but Benoit did have a wealth of experience from wrestling in different promotions and countries that would have made it an interesting match to behold. Oh well!

I have a general rule about time limit matches, and its more related to the quality of the opponent and the technical ability / entertainment value of the match. Considering Benoit and Gotch were both technical mat wrestlers of high quality, I gave the match considerable length. Plus Gotch regularly wrestled for hours, and that goes for something.

But in the end, it's a bullshit metric that I came up with

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Ok wait wait I think this needs to be clarified:

This is Karl Gotch.

This is Frank Gotch.

I hope noone is confusing the two. What I can say about Frank Gotch is Mr. Inventy did all that you see. Atleast the basic stuff and gave it a set of rules and norms as to how presentation should be. But with being said:


Benoit would murder Frank Gotch. The ruthlessness would give it to Chris. I have good faith in Benoit to go over Frank here.

 

[Natural Selection]

I am completely bias in this. I always found Benoit to be overrated and Gotch is a legend. This one seems pretty easy to me, Gotch by pinfall in 27minutes.

 

[Natural Selection]

Oh yeah, and he's a murdering scumbag asshat who doesn't deserve to be recognized with any honor for anything, ever.

Vote Gotch. He did everything Benoit did, but better, and he drew money. And he didn't kill his wife and child.

Couldn't of put it any better myself. I'd have trouble voting for Benoit in anything. Kid killers don't deserve recognition. Benoit is where he should be...Hell

Benoit was the original smark favorite and is only ever judge on his in ring work despite the fact that EVERYTHING else he did was as boring as watching ice melt. Oh and don't forget he was NEVER the main the draw anywhere he was.

 

[Danger Burger]

Gotch changed everything... Benoit, i'll always remember as the best...

Benoit could take bret, and Bret could take anyone...

It kills me, but i have to go gotch, the guy changed everything, 154 wins to 6 loses, in the top ten longest title runs of all time!

Iv got a benoit poster on my wall, but gotch wins!

 

[The Brain]

I voted Benoit here. I know Gotch was great like a hundred years ago but for the most part he was in a different sport. Wrestling was so different for almost everyone else in this tournament. I don't think Benoit is going to lay in a headlock for an hour. I'm not taking anything away from Gotch but it's a different game now. If Cy Young were a pitching today do you think he'd have anywhere near 500 wins? Not by a long shot. Same concept here.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I voted Benoit here. I know Gotch was great like a hundred years ago but for the most part he was in a different sport. Wrestling was so different for almost everyone else in this tournament. I don't think Benoit is going to lay in a headlock for an hour. I'm not taking anything away from Gotch but it's a different game now. If Cy Young were a pitching today do you think he'd have anywhere near 500 wins? Not by a long shot. Same concept here.

I can't get behind this. People can only compete in the era they competed in. They should only be judged as to how they compared to their contemporaries. Gotch meant far, far more and was far more dominant than Benoit. Are Babe Ruth's accomplishments diminished because they happened in the 1920's and there were no black guys? Nope. How about BOb Gibson's unbelievable ERA, even though he got to throw off an elevated mound? AGain, nope. You're judge based on your contemporaries, not everyone who's ever done what you did.

Gotch is the clear answer here. GOtch filled a 30,000 seat stadium in the early century. Benoit couldn't fill a 30,000 seat stadium if his corpse crawled out of hell and resurrected itself.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Put Gotch and Benoit in the ring, who would win? Forget drawing power and that Gotch was the Edison of scripted wrestling, if these two lock up, Benoit makes him tap hard.

Just because someone did it first, doesn't mean they did it best.

Vote Benoit.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Put Gotch and Benoit in the ring, who would win? Forget drawing power and that Gotch was the Edison of scripted wrestling, if these two lock up, Benoit makes him tap hard.

Just because someone did it first, doesn't mean they did it best.

Vote Benoit.

Gotch was an actual shooter and a legitimate bad ass. Benoit was not. He can really take out women and prepuscent children with no issue, though.

Vote Gotch.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Gotch was an actual shooter and a legitimate bad ass. Benoit was not. He can really take out women and prepuscent children with no issue, though.

Vote Gotch.

I don't know, man. I wouldn't want to fuck with a dude who could murder his family. That's pretty hardcore.

I'll probably be called ignorant by the old school enthusiasts around these parts, but I don't give a shit about Frank Gotch. Or Karl Gotch, or Lou Thez, or fucking anybody who wrestled in belly-button-high wrestling trunks. In fact, I can't even watch anything before 1998 these days. It's just so fucking boring.

I'm taking Chris Benoit simply because his birth doesn't predate the Mayan Empire.

 

[Tastycles]

I think Gotch is actually past the point where you can really compare eras, and in many circumstances, I would have voted against him, despite his influence. This is not one of those times. From his time in WCW through to his murder of his child, I never really had much time for Benoit. He'd sporiadically have great matches, but he wasn't a Kurt Angle- Bret Hart figure who could get a good match out of everyone.

Now, the one thing that you could level against wrestlers from before people like Thesz and Ed Lewis is that they wouldn't have had the showmanship. I'm not sure I agree, especially given that wrestling was then like boxing, with fights planned ages in advance, but for the moment lets say that Gotch had no showmanship. Well neither did Benoit, and indeed his principal point of selling was that he's a great technical wrestler. That may be so, but is he likely to have been better than an actual wrestler who went unbeaten for so long? Nope.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

My sincere dislike for anything Benoit's ever done is known around Wrestlezone Forums. It might not be, but who cares? There's a term most announcers use when they talk about a piss poor match. They'll say, "Well, this won't be Hackenschmidt and Gotch, but it's still a match."

Frank Gotch is that guy. Gotch is a winner and won in an era of stiffer shots, shoot-style wrestling, and just much tougher wrestling. Benoit was a risk-taking nut job who depended on hurting himself in hopes of hurting his opponent more. I mean, who can vote for someone that stupid? Not to mention he's morally bankrupt and a psychopath.

Hopefully, Gotch would break Benoit's neck and kill him in this match.

Gotch for the win via death blow to the head.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Same as most posters here, I know little about Gotch other than a few of his accomplishments, which are impressive.

However, Benoit is one of the most intense performers I have ever seen. He showed no intimidation no matter who he was facing, and when he got in the zone there was little you could do to stop him. His crazy intensity would give him the advantage here, and once he locked in the Crossface, there was no escape.

I would put Benoit as the victor against ALOT of the wrestlers in this tournament, he was just that good in the ring, and Gotch is no exception.

Winner: Chris Benoit