Int Region, New York Subregion, Second Round: (8) Rey Mysterio vs. (9) Vader

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round match in the International Region, New York Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under International Rules, meaning the match is held under the standard rules of the country the match is held in. It will be held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York. Assume one week has passed since the first round match.

#8. Rey Mysterio

Vs.

#9. Vader

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[D-Man]

No chance for Rey Rey here.

Vader has superhuman agility, size, and power. Rey's speed can't really help him against someone as resilient and experienced as Vader.

Vader breezes through this round.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I like Rey and did a ton to revolutionize cruiserweight wrestling, and wrestling in general. With that said, he is going to get beaten pretty easily by Vader. Vader isn't a slow, lumbering big man. He has some of the best agility anyone has ever seen from a man that size and, while he can't keep up with Rey, Rey won't be able to run circles around him either.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Rey Rey seems to have a decent record against Kane, and that's about the only argument I can make for him. He doesn't do well against big men, especially big men in their prime. Vader, in his prime, would take this. Mysterio would put up a really nice fight, the crowd would love him, etc. He wouldn't win, though.

Vader moves to the next round.

 

[SSJPhenom]

It's time, it's time, it's Vader time......

I mean, what can really be said here?

Vader has been a huge deal both in the States and abroad. In his prime, he was damn near unstoppable. What could Mysterio do to Vader to hurt him? Honestly?

Vader wins this one easily enough.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Vader gets this one. Good fight, but Rey just isn't powerful enough to overcome this monster. Vader may be one of the most deceptively athletic guys in the history of the business and he's going to just eat Rey alive here.

 

[Bernkastel]

I thought Mysterio was seeded way to high this year - above Blue Demon and Mil Mascaras, and now he's going to pay for it.

While it's true that Rey did make somewhat of a career out of slaying giants, he's also been crushed by them a number of times. Even when he was world champion, Rey was flattened by the likes of Henry and Khali on a weekly basis, and was destroyed by Kane - and this was right after both had gone through grueling matches. Rey against Swagger and Kane the MITB.

Rey chances here are reaaaaaaaaaaally slim.

 

[deem]

Yh refer to my previous post for Rey Vs Bobo for his flattering reputation against big men, when the reality is very different. Just here, Vader>>>>>>>>>>>>Bobo, way more hard hitting, way more strong and agile, just an almost insurmountable task for Mysterio.

There is absolutely no way for him to get out of the round, Vader is a force in this tournament now he's at the gimmick stages. Him against Austin is gonna be fun.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

rey has always taken down the bigger man throughout his career and does it again here by 619 then frog splash 1...2...3

The only thing Rey would get is a 10-bell salute the following week on Raw after being killed in the ring by Vader.

Vader dominated the US and Japan, has world titles on four different continents, and has beaten guys like Antonio Inoki and Sting to within an inch of their lives. If I were Rey, I'd bump my knee into something and require surgery to avoid Vader Time.

Vader wins this in a squash.

 

[nightmare]

Rey tries to run around, kick the legs & goes for a springboard hurricanrana at some point.

Vader hits a powerbomb to reverse.


1 2 3

Vader leaves Rey in the ring trying to move his lifeless little body. Very minimal effort for Vader to win here. Rey may have had some success against larger men in the past, but none as agile & downright nasty as Vader.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Vader would annihilate Rey, absolutely destroy him. Rey has the heart of a lion but he may as well be wrestling a lion here. Vader was a big name everywhere he went. Japan, Europe, North America it didn't matter and beat the best and often.

Best case scenario for Rey is he gets a 1 count and leaves on stretcher worst case he dies.

Vadr wins this easily.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

rey has always taken down the bigger man throughout his career and does it again here by 619 then frog splash 1...2...3

[YOUTUBE]eNoBsdmgH5Y[/YOUTUBE]​

In particular, from the 8 minute mark on... that particular combo didn't work too well there and Henry is nothing compared to the Mastodon.

This would be the sort of match to make Vader look a favorite for the whole shebang.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

I can't think of any scenarios where Rey has a chance, but I can think of a scenario I would find entertaining:

It's Vader's first night in ___(insert company here) and he wants to make an impact. So he comes to the ring during a 6 man tag match and lays everyone out, with Rey showing the most fight. So Rey, being the G he is, challenges Vader to a fight, which Vader accepts with a smile. Rey puts up a valiant effort, attacking Vader's legs with ferocity, but nothing works. Vader Bomb after an 8 minute struggle. Flex on em Vader.

 

[Con T.]

Rey may have had some success against larger men in the past, but none as agile & downright nasty as Vader.

Um, Bam Bam Bigelow?


You know, it's funny that this thread has devolved into a circle jerk of a 400 pound stiff bloke who really needs a lesson in how to not hurt his opponents, talking about what Rey can't do to Vader. Because it seems to me, Rey did something Vader never did.

Make it to the top of the WWE. Vader, for all we talk him up, had his chance to wrestle for the top wrestling company at the time, and was an abject disappointment. Whether it be choking in the clutch against Shawn Michaels (a guy similar to Rey), being made to be Kane's baby back bitch, or just all out dicking around in the mid card, Vader had a shitty stint, when he got the chance to join WWE. He is, and I mean this with all of the humor of a switchblade, a really big fish, in a small pond.

Hell, even in WCW, you could argue that when the best options were around to wrestle, Vader fell short when it really mattered. Against Ric Flair? Choked. Against Hulk Hogan? Choked. The only person that Vader beat that really impresses me is Sting. That's it. Without Sting, Vader is a massive jobber to the stars; he is King Kong Bundy.

And, while we're at it; Vader has some losses where you can argue Vader came in overconfident, and got upset. He came in overconfident against Ron Simmons, and lost the WCW title. He came in overconfident against Ric Flair at Starrcade, and lost the title. He came in overconfident against Shawn Michaels, and lost his big chance at the WWF title. Sure, when Vader is focused, he looks great. When he isn't focused, he loses to a debuting Edge on Sunday Night Heat, and a sparingly used Bradshaw. Vader is a bully, one who when he isn't prepared, comes up making a fool of himself. And this is the perfect kind of opponent to have that happen against.

Professionally, for as much as we make out of Vader, he's a guy who really doesn't get that the main point of professional wrestling is to make your moves look like they hurt, without actually hurting the man you work with. And spare me that whole Japanese hard style crap:

1. Vader was trained over here in America, by Brad Rhenigans

2. Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero also spent plenty of time working in Japan, and not one person has complained that either men are stiff, so it's not an excise that just because you worked Japan, you get to be stiff with everyone.

Meanwhile, Rey has made it to the top if professional wrestling, and he did it by proving that his speed and agility can get him through matches. His whole career is built on doing the impossible. He's won a world title in WWE, something I can never say for Vader, and you know what? He also proved himself to be a draw in Mexico and in WWE, something Vader didn't do while in WWE. And actually, I'm not so sure Vader even proved it, in general.

In the long run, Rey Mysterio means more to the world of wrestling than Vader does. Rey Mysterio will be remembered as a guy who tells magnificent stories in the ring, and as one of the greatest babyfaces of all time.

Vader? He'll be remembered as a good to great wrestler, but also a guy who never lived up to his full potential, and when pushed to the biggest stage, was an abysmal failure. While Rey thrived, Vader proved a complete disappointment

 

[Bernkastel]

Vader was overrated as an entity... his WWE run was a flop, he achieved big success in Japan but was never a top draw, I think WCW when he was feuding with Sting was probably the highlight of his career. Vader was primarily a heel throughout his life, and was damn good at it; but there were top face guys of all calibers that beat him. The real question... is determining if Rey Mysterio would be one of these faces.

There's no denying that Rey was a top face. His popularity skyrocketed after the death of Eddie Guerrero. But he wasn't the type of face that I could see beating Vader. The faces that have beaten Vader... Sting, Misawa, Michaels. They have a certain enigmatic allure to them that Mysterio doesn't have. These guys were true giant slayers, guys that you can put up against any big man and they could hold their own... the giants Rey slayed are the one's in the mid card. A prime Vader in any company was not a mid card giant.

I think Rey's out of his league here.

 

[HBsam31]

Rey can go against big men, but not against Vader. Vader had it all in his prime. Size, speed, strength, agility. I would even go as far as to say Vader would squash Rey in this one.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Definitely going to parrot the majority.

Rey had a admirable modicum of success against the modern American big man type that really flourished in the last 30 years. Guys with limited arsenals who got by on an imposing look. Rey's speed and cunning payed dividends against those types of opposition. But Rey also suffered his share of devastating losses to these types of perfomers as well.

Vader is not that guy anyway. Vader was a huge, quick, mobile man who destoyed all comers and was a huge star in both America and Japan because of it.

Rey would get a handful of minutes to try and make the match cute before he was squashed like a bug. Vader in his prime is a big obstacle for anyone, let alone a miniscule luchador, no matter how talented that luchador may have been.

Also Vader's Masks > Rey's Masks

 

[D-Man]

Um, Bam Bam Bigelow?

So what you're saying is that because Rey beat Bam Bam once in WCW (wayyyyy after Bam Bam's prime) then he's a surefire win over Vader?


Zack Gowen also has a win over the Big Show. I guess he should go far in this tournament.




While your defense of Rey is very strong, anyone could win a match on any day.

And we're comparing wrestlers' primes so I put a win by Vader over Sting (during Vader's and Sting's prime) over Rey's win over Kurt Angle and Randy Orton (questionable primes.) I just can't see Vader making a mistake and losing to Rey. Vader's prime was nearly unstoppable.

 

[Tastycles]

Fuck me, I thought with IC25's semi retirement that we would see an end to the Vader wankathon. No dice.

Mysterio is a Mexican-American tiny wrestler who wears a mask. He can't really talk. He is the antithesis of what American wrestling promotions, and particularly the WWE push. He is a multiple world champion there, and the reason for that is that he is that fucking good. Vader is a big guy that does a few cool moves. He totally flopped in the WWE and achieved in a WCW struggling without Ric Flair. Seriously, Ron Simmons was a world champion around the same time.

If you think Mysterio, the man who has been booked better, beaten bigger names and been more successful would lose, you are misguided. If you think this would be a Vader squash, you are literally a fucking moron. Mysterio basically never gets squashed. You know who does get squashed? Vader. Against Edge. In 1998. Sweet, well done mate.

I'm not going to put any more effort in, it will be futile, but sweet lord, Rey Mysterio is a far better wrestler than Vader.

 

[Big Sexy]

One of the most overrated things on this forum is the talk of American wrestlers success in Japan. I know Vader was great in Japan but you want to know who else has been great in Japan. Scott fucking Norton. How many of you would vote Scott Norton over anybody in this tournament? You want to know who else has had some success in Japan. A-Train aka Albert aka Tensai aka the Hip Hop fucking Hippo. Yes, that same fat ass who dances around like a ****** every Monday night on your television screen was a fairly big deal in Japan. Now that we've got that out of the way let's move on to their careers here in the states.

Vader was a main event player and a dominant force in WCW..... In the early 90's. Early 90's WCW is the worst era of WCW there is (yes, it is 100% worse then even 2000 and 2001). Hardly anyone watched and even less cared. Especially once Ric Flair left for a couple years it was completely in the shitter. After Ric Flair leaves, Vader exchanges the title a couple times with Sting and Ron Simmons. Once Flair comes back he wins the title from Vader and Vader never wins the title again. Then he goes to the WWE where he starts out strong but fails to capture the WWE title and eventually becomes a low mid card jobber.

Now none of this means I'm definitely voting for Rey Mysterio because while I've always liked Rey and loved his in ring work, I thought he was completely unbelievable as a World Champion. However, he has been a world champion and he has defeated the likes of Batista, Kevin Nash, Kane, Bigelow, so he can beat bigger guys.

I'm leaning towards Mysterio because of the awful Vader dick sucking session that is currently taking place.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Yawn at Tasty and Big Sexy, the leaders of the Vaderhaters. This match is a 6 minute squash. And yes, there's an over rated talent in this match, but it's not Vader. It's over-REY-ted Mysterio.

Rey Mysterio is one of the worst - repeat - WORST WWE Champions in history. Nobody cared, and if Big Sexy wants to make silly remarks about Vader dick sucking sessions, then take this to the bank - Rey only won the World Title so WWE could kiss the ass of Eddie Guerrero's legacy and to try to move further into the Mexican market. He never should have won a Royal Rumble or a World Title in the era he won in.

And don't try to discount Vader's accomplishments in Japan. He beat - and often destroyed - some of Japan's legends. Guys like Antonio Inoki, who is as big a legend in Japan as Austin or Hogan in the US, fell to Vader. Add into that the fact that Vader was also a World Champion in Germany. The man was dominant EVERYWHERE he went, because his style is so versatile and translates so well. He's huge, but he's fast. He's strong, but he's crisp. He's powerful, but he's agile. He's brutal, but he's technical.

Vader beat Cactus Jack in a Hardcore Texas Death Match, beat Sting in a series of matches (Sting has Rey's speed and agility but 5 times Rey's strength), and carried WCW during a down time. If you want to cliam that Vader's title reign wasn't comparable because of the fact that WCW wasn't strong at that time, then let's drop Bret Hart down a notch, since his title reigns were at a time when WWF was getting its ass kicked.

Vader '92-'93 beats damn near everyone in this tournament, and rightfully so. Rey doesn't have a hope in hell.

EDIT: I'd vote Scott Norton over 50% of the field in this tournament.

 

[Con T.]

At least Mysterio was a heavyweight champion in WWE, something that never can, and never will, be said about Vader.

Oh? Vader was WCW Champion? Yeah, during a time when WCW was losing their ass in money every year. Being WCW champion meant dick during Vader's run. And when better choices came around to take the belt off of Vader? Well, they did.

I've seen Vader lose by count out out to Mick Foley, and I've seen when Vader doesn't come into his matches focused, he loses. I've seen some losses from him that are absolutely perplexing, even in his prime. Again, without Sting, what win does Vader have that should impress me? He never beat Hogan, never beat Flair, never beat HBK.

Edit; for what it's worth, I also think Bret Hart should be dropped down several pegs, so there is that. So should HBK. Did I mention I can't wait for Brock Smash?

 

[Tastycles]

Yawn at Tasty and Big Sexy, the leaders of the Vaderhaters. This match is a 6 minute squash. And yes, there's an over rated talent in this match, but it's not Vader. It's over-REY-ted Mysterio.

That is literally the worst pun I've ever seen in my life.

Rey Mysterio is one of the worst - repeat - WORST WWE Champions in history. Nobody cared, and if Big Sexy wants to make silly remarks about Vader dick sucking sessions, then take this to the bank - Rey only won the World Title so WWE could kiss the ass of Eddie Guerrero's legacy and to try to move further into the Mexican market. He never should have won a Royal Rumble or a World Title in the era he won in.

You know that's not the only era he won the title, right? He is a three time world heavyweight champion.

And don't try to discount Vader's accomplishments in Japan. He beat - and often destroyed - some of Japan's legends. Guys like Antonio Inoki, who is as big a legend in Japan as Austin or Hogan in the US, fell to Vader.

You know what else Inoki did? Made Vader submit. You know how old he was when that happened? 53.

Add into that the fact that Vader was also a World Champion in Germany. The man was dominant EVERYWHERE he went, because his style is so versatile and translates so well. He's huge, but he's fast. He's strong, but he's crisp. He's powerful, but he's agile. He's brutal, but he's technical.

Oh shit, Germany? The wrestling epicentre that is Germany. Other holders of that prestigious title: Otto Wanz, Road Warrior Hawk, Ludwig Borga.

Vader beat Cactus Jack in a Hardcore Texas Death Match,

Every fucker beats Mick Foley in a hardcore match. Bear in mind this was pre-ECW Foley, when nobody was arsed.

beat Sting in a series of matches (Sting has Rey's speed and agility but 5 times Rey's strength)

,

Sting has Rey Mysterio's agility and speed? What the fuck are you on? If Mysterio took his body weight in ketamin, he'd still move faster than Sting.

and carried WCW during a down time.

Carried them closer to bankruptcy. Ron Simmons was also a champion then. Ric Flair returned, won the title and normal service was resumed.

If you want to cliam that Vader's title reign wasn't comparable because of the fact that WCW wasn't strong at that time, then let's drop Bret Hart down a notch, since his title reigns were at a time when WWF was getting its ass kicked.

Happy to do that.

Vader '92-'93 beats damn near everyone in this tournament, and rightfully so. Rey doesn't have a hope in hell.

Ric Flair beat him then. So did Ricky Steamboat. And Davey Boy Smith. And Sting. So basically anybody with any sort of credentials who faced him in this unstoppable period beat him.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

During his prime, Vader simply would have swallowed Mysterio whole. Mysterio, frankly, he would have been lucky if he got Vader off his feet.

I'd say the peak years for Vader were from about 1987 through the end of 1993. During that time period, Vader went over guys like Riki Chōshū, Tatsumi Fujinami and Sting in IWGP & WCW Championship matches. While Mysterio has gone onto have a few World Championship runs under his belt, and has gone much further than the VAST majority of men his size ever have or will in American wrestling, Rey is probably still best remembered as a cruiserweight. I simply have a difficult time seeing Mysterio, who in his prime was less muscular and even more of a high flyer than he is now, defeating someone like Vader. In their primes, Vader would have outweighed Mysterio about 250 to 300 pounds. Mysterio's offense consisted so much of the lucha libre style. Lots of flips, suicide dives, hurricanranas, etc. and I think it would take everything Mysterio had just to get Vader off his feet, let alone pin him.

It's not an impossibility, but it's so slim that it might as well be for Rey to win. Rey would give it his best effort. He wouldn't be intimidated by Vader and would go at him with everything he had. I do think he'd potentially have Vader in trouble at some point in the match in which it looked like there was hope for Rey pulling out an upset, but those hopes would be dashed quickly.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I wasn't going to touch this with a barge pole (a barge pole with a sledgehammer or a pink slip or a small child on it, seeing as this is professional wrestling) but then I saw a legend being disrespected. How dare you people. How dare you! Vader's squash of Heath Slater was the best and you all know it!

My feelings on Rey Mysterio aren't exactly a secret - he's a bona fide legend and one of the best wrestlers of the last fifteen years. Having watched a lot of the last fifteen years of professional wrestling, that's a claim I can make without leaving a brown stain in my underpants.

Of course, Vader will win the vote. He's a bigger bloke and, for some reason, even after all these years, it seems wrestling fans still don't understand quite how the David vs. Goliath dynamic actually works.