If Heaven Is So Great Why Are We Afraid To Go There?

[The Brain]

I'm going to preface this by saying I am one of the least religious people on this forum. Basically religion does not exist in my life. Some of the things I'm going to say in this post are a lame attempt at humor and some may be said out of ignorance. I don't mean to offend but am curious to read some thoughts.

Not coming from a religious home and never stepping foot into a church aside from the occasional wedding or funeral my limited knowledge of what Heaven is perceived to be comes from tv shows, which I'm sure exaggerate things for the purpose of their stories. From what I've seen Heaven is a magical paradise that you get to go to once your life on Earth is over. There is no hate, no crime, and no responsibilities. You don't have to work or pay bills or worry about how you're going to survive. You can basically do whatever you want and are happy at all times. You even get to be reunited with all your loved ones that have passed. If cartoons have taught me anything about Heaven it's that you can come into contact with anyone that has ever died. From what I gather random run ins with anyone from Abraham Lincoln to Elvis are commonplace despite Heaven supposedly being occupied by millions upon millions of people. Some even think that you get to come back to Earth in some sort of ghostly form anytime you please if you want to check in on your still living loved ones. I can just float down at sit ringside at WrestleMania if I want.

So if Heaven is such a wonderful place why should we be so determined to stay on Earth? I think most people are either afraid to die or at the very least don't want to die. Let's say you are in a life threatening situation. You would be terrified of dying and do anything you could to survive. Human instinct I suppose. Would it ever occur to you that if you die you get to go to Heaven? Why struggle so hard to survive? If Heaven is such a wonderful place why would you try so hard to avoid going there?

I think even the strongest believers must have at least some doubt as to whether Heaven exists. Nobody really knows what happens when we die. It's much more comforting to think that our loved ones are enjoying a happy afterlife instead of ceasing to exist as their bodies rot away in the ground somewhere. Not to mention there has to be some comfort in thinking we have more in store for us than the limited time we get on Earth.

So if there really is a Heaven and you truly do believe that tell me why I should wait so long to get there. Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking to check out. It's not like I'm suicidal. Just curious if Heaven is so great why should I want to stay on Earth so badly.

Moderator's note- This is NOT a science vs religion debate. Please carefully read the OP before you post your response.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I think even the strongest believers must have at least some doubt as to whether Heaven exists.

I would think the problem is sooner that if folks believe Heaven exists, they feel Hell must exist, too.....and they aren't sure which one is being selected for them. Now, when you take the people who kiss the mirror each morning, self-assured that they're the most wonderful, virtuous people on Earth....they're the ones I would think can't wait to make the transition to the next life......yet, they seem to hang around as long as they can, too.

Some even think that you get to come back to Earth in some sort of ghostly form anytime you please if you want to check in on your still living loved ones.

If that's the case, I'm never getting undressed again.

 

[Dirk]

It's interesting. Christ told the guy on the cross next to him "Today you'll be with me in paradise", but there are much less mentions of heaven (or at least our Western concept of it) in the canonical bible than one would think.

What there ARE, are many mentions of a "new heaven and a new earth" that fully manifests on "the day of the Lord". Many theologians believe that the new heaven and earth is the one we inhabit now, going to be remade anew. I'm inclined to agree.

The heavenly domain gets mentioned, but it's mostly angels praising God non-stop. Also, the notion that deserving humans turn into angels upon death isn't supported by the bible, so that's not us. Even the idea of an immortal soul was influenced by the Greek philosophy, so it's not set in stone that there isn't some sort of dormant in-between period between death and life after death.

It may be a cliché, but it's called "faith", not "knowledge". I'm pretty sure the Lord is there, but I don't know for sure. Nor do I know whether I believe in the right revelation of Him (or even if there IS one) and if I'm getting the good ending.

So I'd say doubt (and the many variables it includes) is a very big part of it, but I'd say the question isn't "Why am I afraid of heaven?" but boils down to "What happens when I die?".

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As The Brain mentioned, there are points in time where even the most ardent, hardcore believers have doubts. If you've ever read the Bible, even Jesus' apostles had doubts at times. The phrase "Doubting Thomas" is taken directly from the Bible as it talks about Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples, refused to believe that Jesus appeared to the ten other apostles post crucifixion until he could see the wounds Jesus received on the cross. So, taking into consideration that one of the 11 remaining men who viewed Jesus, followed him in life, witnessed the miracles he performed, etc. could have doubts that Jesus was resurrected, it goes to reason that it's perfectly understandable for the rest of us ordinary folk to have fear and doubts bloom up sometimes some 2,000 years later.

Some believe the Bible is the word of God, written by men who were divinely inspired by God. Some believe the Bible isn't the exact word of God and that it was written by men, though the overall teachings are valid. It's ultimately impossible to know what the truth is because we don't really even know who the man or men were who ultimately put pen to paper and wrote The New Testament. Human beings are screw ups, all you have to do is look at our history to know that. Some scholars believe mistakes were made in translating the original Aramaic to Greek, some believe that powerful individuals in the later church centuries after Jesus' death used their influence to put certain books within the Bible and leave some stuff out. Does the Bible tell the whole story? Have men mucked about with it so much that the truth & what's written don't mesh?

If you're looking for true, 100%, solid as Beyoncé's ass proof, then it goes directly against having faith. We've all seen or heard about some people who've had their religious beliefs challenged via scientific discoveries react violently or negatively with said scientists responsible using it as an example of the irrational effect religion has had on the human race. At the same time, the reverse is also true in that there are some within the scientific community that are genuinely terrified at accepting or facing the possibility that they're wrong because there are some questions that they don't have the answer to. If they can't see it, touch it, measure it or fully understand it, some are terrified. Sure, they have theories but is a theory really any more solidified than religious belief? Evolution is a theory, it's a widely accepted theory that many accept as fact, but it hasn't been verified as a fact. Doesn't mean that it's wrong, but it doesn't mean it's right either.

Death is the ultimate mystery and one we won't learn the answer to until we're no longer part of this world. As a mystery, what ultimately happens after death can be extraordinarily frightening. It's in our nature to want to live, to want to be here among our friends & loved ones for as long as possible. We have to give up what we know and hope for something that's even better. It's a gamble with the stakes being the answer to whether or not you possess an immortal soul.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

As The Brain mentioned, there are points in time where even the most ardent, hardcore believers have doubts. If you've ever read the Bible, even Jesus' apostles had doubts at times. The phrase "Doubting Thomas" is taken directly from the Bible as it talks about Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples, refused to believe that Jesus appeared to the ten other apostles post crucifixion until he could see the wounds Jesus received on the cross. So, taking into consideration that one of the 11 remaining men who viewed Jesus, followed him in life, witnessed the miracles he performed, etc. could have doubts that Jesus was resurrected, it goes to reason that it's perfectly understandable for the rest of us ordinary folk to have fear and doubts bloom up sometimes some 2,000 years later.

Some believe the Bible is the word of God, written by men who were divinely inspired by God. Some believe the Bible isn't the exact word of God and that it was written by men, though the overall teachings are valid. It's ultimately impossible to know what the truth is because we don't really even know who the man or men were who ultimately put pen to paper and wrote The New Testament. Human beings are screw ups, all you have to do is look at our history to know that. Some scholars believe mistakes were made in translating the original Aramaic to Greek, some believe that powerful individuals in the later church centuries after Jesus' death used their influence to put certain books within the Bible and leave some stuff out. Does the Bible tell the whole story? Have men mucked about with it so much that the truth & what's written don't mesh?

If you're looking for true, 100%, solid as Beyoncé's ass proof, then it goes directly against having faith. We've all seen or heard about some people who've had their religious beliefs challenged via scientific discoveries react violently or negatively with said scientists responsible using it as an example of the irrational effect religion has had on the human race. At the same time, the reverse is also true in that there are some within the scientific community that are genuinely terrified at accepting or facing the possibility that they're wrong because there are some questions that they don't have the answer to. If they can't see it, touch it, measure it or fully understand it, some are terrified. Sure, they have theories but is a theory really any more solidified than religious belief? Evolution is a theory, it's a widely accepted theory that many accept as fact, but it hasn't been verified as a fact. Doesn't mean that it's wrong, but it doesn't mean it's right either.

Death is the ultimate mystery and one we won't learn the answer to until we're no longer part of this world. As a mystery, what ultimately happens after death can be extraordinarily frightening. It's in our nature to want to live, to want to be here among our friends & loved ones for as long as possible. We have to give up what we know and hope for something that's even better. It's a gamble with the stakes being the answer to whether or not you possess an immortal soul.

Jesus Christ, yes it has. We've been over this nonsense so many times it isn't even funny anymore. It's just aggravating as hell to see you parrot again and again and again.

You have absolutely no idea what the term "theory" means in science, and you sure as shit haven't a clue what "facts" are either. They don't mean what you think they do. They don't conform to your standards either. They conform only to the standards set forth by science, which rely on reason and logic.

So, once again, this time hopefully the last time, it goes like this:

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred.

Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

So please, please, please stop with this shit. It's tiresome having to crucify you over it every time you raise it from the dead (all pun intended).

Now, so as not to make this response completely off-topic, the answer is pretty clear to me — whatever afterlife you (the proverbial you, no longer directly speaking to Jack-Hammer) think you believe in has some level of doubt, which is why your natural instincts to cling to survival kick in when faced with the choice between life and death. Even the most hardened believers, I would argue, question, even if it's at the last possible moment, the risk they are taking in dying with the hope of reaching a second life.

Me? Well, until someone can demonstrate that the supernatural realm exists in the first place, I'm going to do everything I can to live and enjoy the only life I know I will experience to its fullest.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Jesus Christ, yes it has. We've been over this nonsense so many times it isn't even funny anymore. It's just aggravating as hell to see you parrot again and again and again.

You have absolutely no idea what the term "theory" means in science, and you sure as shit haven't a clue what "facts" are either. They don't mean what you think they do. They don't conform to your standards either. They conform only to the standards set forth by science, which rely on reason and logic.

So, once again, this time hopefully the last time, it goes like this:


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

So please, please, please stop with this shit. It's tiresome having to crucify you over it every time you raise it from the dead (all pun intended).

Now, so as not to make this response completely off-topic, the answer is pretty clear to me — whatever afterlife you (the proverbial you, no longer directly speaking to Jack-Hammer) think you believe in has some level of doubt, which is why your natural instincts to cling to survival kick in when faced with the choice between life and death. Even the most hardened believers, I would argue, question, even if it's at the last possible moment, the risk they are taking in dying with the hope of reaching a second life.

Me? Well, until someone can demonstrate that the supernatural realm exists in the first place, I'm going to do everything I can to live and enjoy the only life I know I will experience to its fullest.

Blah blah blah. Yes yes, we all know you're an atheist, we all know you abhor everything to do with religion. It has its drawbacks, no question. Here's the thing though: I don't really care what your opinions are. I don't really care if you think you're right and that everyone who has religious beliefs is a fool. I just don't care about any of the various debates on religion vs. evolution because it's not worth the trouble of getting into. Neither side has been able to convince the other side and I've read that same link you posted in the past. If I tried, I could find another link to another site denouncing evolution just like you could find another link denouncing religion and promoting evolution.

I have my beliefs, you have yours, more power to you. I live and enjoy my life and I'm glad you do the same. I wouldn't try to tell you how to live based on my beliefs, it sort of defeats the purpose of what Christianity is all about in the first place. It's there, believe it or don't believe it. It's all about choice. I choose to respect your beliefs, but if you're not mature enough to respect those of others, then that's your problem.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Yeah, and I'm sure your links would all spout the same rhetoric you do about it, by plugging your ears and blah blah blah-ing your way through an argument. An iron-clad indication you've lost a reasonable foundation in a debate, mind you. This isn't about wanting to be right or wrong. It's about actually being right or wrong. When it comes to evolution, you are just wrong. Flat out. The theory of evolution is a scientific fact. Facts are not things that only exist when they support your beliefs. They exist irrespective of your opinions.

You are entitled to your own beliefs. You aren't, however, entitled to your own facts, and evolution is a fact. What is unknown about it are the exact processes by which it occurs, not that it actually occurs. Just like climate change. Just like gravity. Both of which are "just theories".

And it's not about convincing you. If you can't accept clear-as-day evidence, that's on you. But your refusal to accept fact doesn't negate it.

 

[Reflection]

Why are people afraid to go to heaven?
1. No bodies, only spirits. So that will pretty much be a world with no hot women... or any woman, for that matter.
2. No sex, no *********ion even. Damn.
3. No internet, no porn, no wrestling, no driving, no porn, no weightlifting, no books, and no porn.
4. Cannot use "fuck" or "shit" in statements, otherwise will get kicked to hell.
5. Judgement/getting your shit fucked for every small mistake you have done in your life.
Overall, it will get very boring after about 48 hours or so.

 

[JamJam]

Oh boy. Every time religion is talked about on the internet, it never really ends well but it's always interesting to read what the rest of the world thinks about religion. Here's my answer.

First, I'll say that I'm a religious person, pretty religious you could say. To answer Brain's question, I think it's pretty simple. It's not really about if you're religious or not. It's not even if we should argue if heaven even exists or not. But does anyone really know the answer to the question? I don't think so. We can spit out all the facts and arguments we have against one another but do we really have the RIGHT answer? I don't think so. So if NO ONE has the right answer to this question, then there is no wrong or right way to answer this. It's simply all a matter of perception. If you ask a religious person, then you'll get a religious answer. If you ask a person who isn't religious, then you won't get a religious answer. Simple as that.

As for me, I believe we were put on this earth to live a life we could be proud of. The Lord created us in his image and while there are doubts as to why bad things happen, that's simply to test our faith. The Lord didn't create humans to be robots. He created us to have free will, to make our own choices. If He had created robots, then that would mean we would probably conform to all of His commands. But that isn't what's happening here.

So why are we afraid of heaven? Because of it's mystery. If you don't know what happens next then it's human instinct to be scared. Any question that doesn't have a DEFINITE answer is a question we should all be afraid of.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The answer is simple. Despite all the literature that is available on heaven and all the depictions of heaven, you don't know if it exists. Even the most ardent believer does not. He is she is bound to have doubts. I think that most people fear death because most people don't know what will happen to you after that. It is the challenge of the unknown that frightens man the most. It's perfectly fine to have faith, but I think that on most occasions, logic trumps faith. And logic suggests that heaven may or may not exist. That uncertainty certainly exists in everybody's mind, no matter how religious a person is. It must exist, in my opinion, because it is human nature to question theories. Otherwise we would have never advanced from the stone ages.

Also, I think that survival is just a human instinct. Hell, it is probably the strongest of the human instincts. Think of it this way, everything that we do, from working to cleaning ourselves and what not, is in order to survive. We don't just give up thinking that even if I don't do this, I'll always have heaven to go to. We have just been hard-coded that way, I guess.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I think that most people fear death because most people don't know what will happen to you after that.

There's that, isn't there? Makes me think it might be a good thing if we did know that there is, in fact, a Heaven and Hell and that we're all going to one or the other. If it were unequivocally true and everyone knew it, can you imagine the massive wave of people no longer doing the killing, stealing & other bad things because they knew for sure that stuff like that was going to warrant the "Go to Hell....Go straight to Hell....Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200" card that they never let influence their behavior before?

In courtrooms, I can just imagine the prosecutor winning his case involving someone who did do bad by telling the jury: "Guess the defendant doesn't care if he goes to Hell or not" and having the jury gasp in horror.

Hmmm.....might be a good thing to know for sure, y'know? Just a thought.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I think it really comes down to 3 reasons:

1) Despite what the strongest believers may think or feel there is no guarantee that there is an afterlife.
2) If there is an afterlife there is no guarantee one is going to Heaven
3) Its human instinct dude

Coming from a person that is non-religious its really quite simple for me, I only have so much time on Earth before I die at which point I have no idea what lies next, maybe I'm resurrected as someone else, maybe I go to some sort of afterlife or maybe the lights go out and that's all she wrote, I have no idea and frankly I don't put too much thought or effort into figuring it out either. Since I don't know I see no reason to live for religion or someone else's ideals, I live my life the way I feel, my moral compass essentially comes from asking myself "if this happened to me how would I feel?" and since I'm only here for so long it seems like a waste not to make the most of it. For all I know we only live once so make the best of it while you can.

From a religious person's standpoint there is much fear that comes from dying. The 1st fear is when you die is when you truly find out if there is a god, its also finding out if your belief system while you were alive is ultimately correct. Some religions don't believe in afterlife but for a religion like Christianity its not set in stone one is going to Heaven. The 2nd fear is finding out if the belief you dedicated a chunk (if not all) your life too is ultimately correct. The whole idea of afterlife is a big reason why a lot of people follow a certain religion, so if I am a devout Christian and I follow Christianity essentially so I can get into heaven only to find out when I die the one true faith is Hinduism or something I'm going to be pretty choked.

The last reason pretty much anyone can understand, its basic instinct to survive and to keep going as long as we can. Humans can't control what happens when they die or afterwards but they can control what they do while they are living, we can decide if we want to just scrape by, they can decide to live on the street, they can decide to accumulate massive wealth, we can decide if they want to be remembered and we can decide if all we want to do is be happy and enjoy life but in order to do anything I just said though one needs to survive, its really that simple. Some people think there is no point to living and simply end it early but for most of us we have a reason for living, we have a reason to survive, therefore we survive as long as we can.

 

[Lee]

I remember reading something George Whitefield said to John Wesley who was a bit depressed at the time.

Sitting day to day thinking "I want to die and go to heaven" is like being a worker in a field, doing no work and sitting down saying "I want to go home". He'd not last long in the job.

Basically some people feel like they have a role on Earth and we may as well make the most of it.

 

[CyberPunk]

As so many have already said, human beings don't know whether there's a heaven. It's the fear of unknown. Whether people believe or not, there's no way to know for sure if heaven exists.

A man can preach as much as he likes. Still, there's no way he can determine or test what's it like after death. Afterlife is not even a theory, it's just based on faith. You can choose to believe it or you can ignore it.

Also, if there is a heaven, no one has ever come back to tell what's it like. So why think about going somewhere you can't return?

 

[Trance Metaphor]

The idea of living forever by either worshiping a deity or just doing random humanly-unimaginable things doesn't appeal to me. I've lived 31 years and I'm already long bored of all the mundane tasks, uneventful happenings and countless predictable outcomes that I've had to experience/endure. I can't imagine reaching 100+ years in some foreign territory beyond the universe. That's like a curse to me rather than a blessing. I'd like to think that if I die, I just return to the state that I was in before birth and that's being completely unaware and remaining in nothingness. That's my idea of peace. As far as why people don't want to die and experience heaven? A) People are intrinsically survivors and B) People are afraid of the unknown mystery that lies beyond death. As for me? I don't value living all that much because I don't really find any meaning in it and I'm kind of suicidal.

 

[Trill Co$by]

As for why people fear dying, even when some of us believe there is a heaven or a hell is a mixture of things such as not knowing if our sins are forgiven, not knowing if there is a heaven or hell, or even fear of being forgotten. At least that's my theory on the matter. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop believing, nor does it mean I'm going to stop being the best I can be.

 

[ABMorales787]

It's not Heaven they fear, it's Hell. Even the nicest of people will have the doubt of whether they were good enough or not peek into them. It's the basis of the Devils work. To make you doubt your worth. To make your regret the tiniest mistake in the face of death and make you believe that's good enough to send you to hell.

Others are scared of the things they'll leave behind. Imagine how terrified a parent would feel at the thought of leaving their young children orphaned. At that point, it's not a fear to yourself. It's a fear of what happens to everyone else. An understandable one too because what if without you those children lose their way and have miserable lives? It's a truly scary thought.

Also, I get the feeling Jack-Hammer and IDR would drop their jaws if they got a listen of Pope Francis.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

We fear the other side because man teaches us to be afraid. That's pretty much the gist of it. Can you prove it exists? no. Can I prove it doesn't? No. All I can tell you is what the buddha said: Look within, and you will find your answers.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

I think you are looking at it in a wrong way. Christianity was founded as religion in Roman Empire where it wasnt so good to believe in something like that. Having the term of "Heaven" was just something that would ease the pains they got on Earth. You suffered heavy opression from Roman Empire, it was nice to know that you would get something for your sufferings on Earth. From todays perspective that seems silly because most of the world is free to believe in what they want, but then it was something that Christians offered to people. And it worked, from just minor religion they managed to get major and even in few centuries Roman Emperor was believing in them.

Plus its not christians way to rush to Heaven but to be good christians and celebrate life. Not to mention that major flaw in your plan is to kill yourself to get there. Thats a big no-no if you want to go to Heaven.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

It's not Heaven they fear, it's Hell. Even the nicest of people will have the doubt of whether they were good enough or not peek into them. It's the basis of the Devils work. To make you doubt your worth. To make your regret the tiniest mistake in the face of death and make you believe that's good enough to send you to hell.

Others are scared of the things they'll leave behind. Imagine how terrified a parent would feel at the thought of leaving their young children orphaned. At that point, it's not a fear to yourself. It's a fear of what happens to everyone else. An understandable one too because what if without you those children lose their way and have miserable lives? It's a truly scary thought.

Also, I get the feeling Jack-Hammer and IDR would drop their jaws if they got a listen of Pope Francis.

In what regard?

He's not revolutionary in any way, except in direct comparison to Pope Pediphilious, or whatever his name was who he succeeded. Considering the stark reality of the sets of beliefs both men have, sure, he can appear revolutionary to the faith, but the only truly revolutionary thing he's said to date was that atheists can get into heaven too (which he later redacted) early into his Pope-dom. Everything else, including his support of evolution, had already been supported by the Vatican prior. It was undone by the Hitler Youth guy, and simply re-done by Frank.

He seems like a nice guy and all, but there's nothing jaw-dropping about his philosophy, and at the end of the day, he still hinges all of his beliefs on the belief in something he can't demonstrate to exist in the first place. You'll always lose me on that mark. You, Francis or anyone making a positive claim for a god.

 

[ABMorales787]

In what regard?

He's not revolutionary in any way, except in direct comparison to Pope Pediphilious, or whatever his name was who he succeeded. Considering the stark reality of the sets of beliefs both men have, sure, he can appear revolutionary to the faith, but the only truly revolutionary thing he's said to date was that atheists can get into heaven too (which he later redacted) early into his Pope-dom. Everything else, including his support of evolution, had already been supported by the Vatican prior. It was undone by the Hitler Youth guy, and simply re-done by Frank.

He seems like a nice guy and all, but there's nothing jaw-dropping about his philosophy, and at the end of the day, he still hinges all of his beliefs on the belief in something he can't demonstrate to exist in the first place. You'll always lose me on that mark. You, Francis or anyone making a positive claim for a god.

His entire stance since becoming pope has basically been "stop being so fucking intolerant". Its not about being a revolutionary but for having an opinion of his own instead of just advocating for the Catholic religion, but for accepting that not everyone shares or should share the same opinion. Plus he caught some flack for wondering what was the problem with homosexuals attending church.

This world has basically degenerates into "I'm right, you're wrong, just because" and seeing people with open opinions is worth while to me.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

His entire stance since becoming pope has basically been "stop being so fucking intolerant". Its not about being a revolutionary but for having an opinion of his own instead of just advocating for the Catholic religion, but for accepting that not everyone shares or should share the same opinion. Plus he caught some flack for wondering what was the problem with homosexuals attending church.

This world has basically degenerates into "I'm right, you're wrong, just because" and seeing people with open opinions is worth while to me.

Sure, he seems like a good dude. I already said that. But this is all too reminiscent of a classic Chris Rock joke where the lead-in is [black] fathers who boast proudly that they take care of their kids, and don't go to prison. The hilarious punch line? "You're supposed to you dumb mother fucker!"

So yeah, I tend not to be overly appreciative when a person in a position of power exerts common human decency and relies on logic and reason when dealing with things like morality the way Francis has. He's supposed to. We're all supposed to. Showering him with praise for doing the job everyone is supposed to do on a daily basis is a type of mediocrity championing that doesn't belong in an intelligent society.

Now, this isn't to say it isn't a good thing when politicians and men in power do in fact advocate basic human rights. It is. Of course it is. Let's not go argumentum ad absurdum here, because so many of them don't. All I'm saying is let's not let that distract us from the fact they're simply doing the jobs they were hired to do as decent human beings.

So again, jaw-dropping? Not really. More like mild applause... for doing the job you should do. That the men you've succeeded should have done. That all men and women should do.

Though, of course, none of this says anything about his religious beliefs and how well (or not so well) founded they are when subjected to the same set of basic reason and logic.

 

[Cos]

Seems to me that if religious groups are touting that heaven is paradise and we will see all our loved ones , what happens when somebody decides they would rather go there ... would the churches be liable when that happens?

 

[sikkbones]

im going to hell. I have a throne to rule.

whose coming with me?