How Would You Solve The Problem?

[Lugar]

This is the first in what I hope will be a regular topic. There are a lot of good ideas floating around the forum and I'm sure that if we put our heads together then we can solve wrestling's problems.

The first question is:-
How do we solve the problem of "cookie cutter" wrestlers?

In my opinion this problem has been building up ever since the WWE started using 1 developmental fed.

With the guys in the back they could use (Arn, Dusty, Dustin, Regal et al) would it not make sense to set up a number of developmental's possibly along the old territorial boundaries. For example Arn could run a Georgia, Carolina developmental, Dusty could run a Minnesota, AWA teritory etc. (I'm not to good on american geography so I don't know how the area would be defined. The different territories would each have a different style of wrestling and promising stars could be switched every so often to learn a different style and adapt their basic ring and mic skills.

I believe this would assist young superstars when they make it to the Majors.

I would appreciate hearing other opinions in this and also if you want me to post more questions.

 

[crippler]

Maybe the 1 developmental federation is the reason but also not having manager like Bobby Heenan and Jimmy Hart around to help the guys that can wrestle but lack the mic skills. If it wasn't for Jimmy Hart and Jim Niedhart Bret Hart would have never been as big as he was since Jimmy Hart and The Anvil helped him with the interviews and improve on the mic. Some very talented guys could use the same kind of help look at Tyson Kidd 1 of the most talented guys but lacks mic skills so he is poorly used cuz of it. Since WWE stopped the manager role alot of talented in ring guys but no mic skill never made it where they could have if they had a manager. Mason Ryan will never be the next Batista like people have said he is unless he can get a manager or someone to help him with mic skills.

 

[Lugar]

Good point for the first few years of his WWE tenure Batista had D-von talking for him followed by Flair and Tripple H. Managers the caliber of Heart, Heenan and further back Blassie, Captain Lou and the Grand wizard are few and far between.

 

[The Duke]

What the hell is a "cookie cutter wrestler"? that's twice I have seen that now lol

I believe it's a wrestler cut from a certain mold i.e. Batista, Cena, Ryan, etc. Big dudes who spend more time in the gym than most. I semi agree with people throwing around that stigma since most established guys (CM Punk, Rey Mysterio,Bryan) are guys who have come along and have either been successful in other feds or due to the IWC(Daniel Bryan was brought into the E because he's a net darling). I think this thought is a very dumb one since guys that are big in the E mostly suck on the mic. But I do agree that they need some better managers in the fed who can talk for those who are awful on the mic.

 

[themusicman]

This is a really interesting question, thanks for posting. I live in the UK where we dont really have an outstanding promotion, there are loads of small promotions that produce great talent, but there isnt a promotion that has any T.V. coverage to speak of or a prominant place in the media in the same way TNA or WWE does. I get the feeling this is kind of the same issue across Europe. Which leads me to answering your question. I would keep 1 developmental promotion in the U.S but I would also open a European development programme. We have seen a number of European wrestlers break through in recent years and I think there are several who were good enough for one reason or another that didnt make it. If WWE were to open a Europe wide promotion working with wrestlers from across the continent it would give them a chance to teach them the "american style" early. In addition if they had some U.S. guys floating around not doing much (Tyson Kidd etc) they could send them across for a few months, they could be pushed into M.E. type roles and be allowed to lead the company, giving them experience of doing that before returning to the main roster having gained the experience. What do you think?

 

[Lugar]

I'm actually Welsh so I totally agree with having a european developmental group that way wrestlers such as Robbie Brookside, Spud and Prince Devitt might have broke through the ranks.

Even growing up watching World of Sport wrestlers such as Kendo Nagasaki, Mark Rollerball Rocco would have been top mid card additions in the 70's and 80's. Plus could you have seen Hogan vs Giant Haystacks at wrestlemania 2

 

[themusicman]

I'm actually Welsh so I totally agree with having a european developmental group that way wrestlers such as Robbie Brookside, Spud and Prince Devitt might have broke through the ranks.

Even growing up watching World of Sport wrestlers such as Kendo Nagasaki, Mark Rollerball Rocco would have been top mid card additions in the 70's and 80's. Plus could you have seen Hogan vs Giant Haystacks at wrestlemania 2

I would also have included Jonny Storm and Jody Fleisch in that list, I know they both did a little bit in the US with ROH and I think a couple of appearences with the old TNA too, but they are both excellent atheltes that, with the right kind of developement could have made it in the 'big leagues'. It was sad that Haystacks had to wait so long to get a shot in the US and to pass away so quickly, he was a great monster heel who's work wasnt appreciated as much as it should have been. I believe Prince Devitt has signed with this new US promotion so hopefully he can make his mark that way. I really believe that Vince is missing out on a huge opportunity by not having a european promotion. The cross-overs between the promotions could make interesting watching.

 

[dadubay]

I realize that this thread turned into something completely different but I want to add something to the manager comments. Managers really helped get the small guys over back in the day. Managers also helped push the midcarders and let the federations see who was getting over.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

What the hell is a "cookie cutter wrestler"? that's twice I have seen that now lol

A cookie cutter wrestler is basically generic, a vanilla wrestler with basic skills but nothing to stand out from the others. Example: Johnny Curtis, the guy that won NXT season 4. Bad promo skills and had ONE match and got squished by Mark Henry. Example 2: Alex Riley, former Miz protege. Why did he get cheers if he's cookie cutter and vanilla? Because Miz gets nuclear crowd heat. Any guy that can play with the mic and the announcer for 10 straight minutes and not bore the audience is doing a good job.

 

[amishpyrate]

This is a really interesting question, thanks for posting. I live in the UK where we dont really have an outstanding promotion, there are loads of small promotions that produce great talent, but there isnt a promotion that has any T.V. coverage to speak of or a prominant place in the media in the same way TNA or WWE does. I get the feeling this is kind of the same issue across Europe. Which leads me to answering your question. I would keep 1 developmental promotion in the U.S but I would also open a European development programme. We have seen a number of European wrestlers break through in recent years and I think there are several who were good enough for one reason or another that didnt make it. If WWE were to open a Europe wide promotion working with wrestlers from across the continent it would give them a chance to teach them the "american style" early. In addition if they had some U.S. guys floating around not doing much (Tyson Kidd etc) they could send them across for a few months, they could be pushed into M.E. type roles and be allowed to lead the company, giving them experience of doing that before returning to the main roster having gained the experience. What do you think?

THIS is a great idea.... I wouldn't stop with europe tho, I'd try getting something going in mexico and in asia or at least other parts of the world.... Khali sucks bigtime but is huge in india so they keep him around. It is WORLD wrestling entertainment so if they could get more of a worldwide thing going that would be cool

 

[Azane]

Simple way is to push the people who aren't generic.

As much as I detest him, R-Truth is a good example of a wrestler who doesn't fit the mold, push him.

The Miz was a good one as well, his gimmick and skillset fit the current atmosphere very well, and it showed how much work he's put in since I wanted to turn my TV off when I saw his face on WWECW.

Right now, Cena is the only MEr who is pure cookie cutter (he's actually an updated Hulk Hogan(face) model right now). Punk and Del Rio are quite unique, in both style and gimmicks.

The Midcard is crowded with vanilla midgets, and it's not that big a problem, having the generic guys in the midcard gives you some "legitimacy" since the Ted Dibiases or Joe Hennings in that midcard seem like normal wrestlers, while you have your gimmicky wrestlers, like Sin Cara, and Cody Rhodes to keep the entertainment value up. It's just about mix and matching, the ~95' era had a lot of cartoony characters (Doink being a good example) and WWF was never more of a laughing stock (I enjoyed the product then, but it wasn't taken serious), and we've seen how bad the product was in the mid-late 2010 decade, with too much reality, and hardly any gimmicks.

So, long winded side tracked post aside, I'd push people who don't fit molds, and keep a stable of vanilla midgets in the midcard.

 

[robinkom]

I think McMahon just looks in all the wrong places for talent sometimes. "He was bodybuilder, train him. She was a dancer, train her." It's really too hit or miss they way he looks for personalities to fit on-air roles these days. He and his top guys and the management are so caught up in how "prestigious" it is to work for WWE that they have their heads up their asses. They can't see the pure talent right in front of their faces because it doesn't "fit their mold."

Sometimes it's as easy as letting the wrestlers be themselves but they feel they need to make them into some kind of low-key character with no gimmick and a stupid first & last name. I think they have a hard time realizing that the success of The Rock and Austin when their careers really took off was just the right place at the right time with the right people.

I say just give someone a live mic who can't talk worth a damn, and let them bomb live on the air. They'll learn. Even if they sucked, they'll get a reaction for sucking and can feed off that. These young guys are all such one-dimensional cookie cutter characters, you can replace one with another and still get the same damn match. A lot of them are so coddled and placated with their fat contracts and writers making up their dialog for them that they don't really have to try that hard, not like those that paved the way for them to live that high life.

It's hard to recreate and it's hard to innovate when you have no drive to be a better product. No real competition in the industry, no need to improve. This is why I dearly want to see TNA and ROH grow their business. It'll take many years, but if they play their cards right, they can eventually prove to be viable big money employers to more of the WWE talent that feels underutilized or underdeveloped.