How The Rock is a Main Reason Cena Became the Top Star

[ForzaItalia]

It's been a while since I posted on the forums, but I typed this somewhere else and thought I'd bring this argument up here for discussion. Sorry, if it doesn't belong here and all that stuff, but I think this has to be heard and put a silence to all these people hating on The Rock.

Back in 2003, Rock wanted out, he was losing his passion for the business and thankfully he got out because now we still remember him as The Great One and not a washed up shadow of himself if he had stayed and won another 14 titles. I mean the guy just winning another whole set of WWE title runs would just be overdone and you could tell he wanted something new to challenge himself, that being Hollywood.

Because The Rock left, it gave others the chance to shine and show what they are made of. Others as in Cena. If Rock would have stayed, he would be the guy still on top today and Cena would have never been the top dog to begin with. Just remember this: There would have never been any John Cena if The Rock hadn't left and given his top spot to someone else. Sure Cena had his whole Doctor of Thuganomics going on, but would that really have been enough to surpass The Rock, even if he wasn't performing on the level we all know he could perform on?

So, if The Rock wants to come back and have one match to help the product he helped make into what it is today, then why all this hate? If you hadn't noticed yet, Rock will be the guy that is finally going to help Cena get to that next level of "larger than life" superstar. He is here for two reasons:to entertain us and help out the business he grew up loving. The Rock is not back for just the big payday, trust me he makes a lot more in Hollywood than in a wrestling company that barely gets over 250,000 PPV buys (excluding Wrestlemania). If anyone at all thinks anyone in that locker room can do the same thing The Rock is doing right now, please comment, but if not stop whining that The Rock is taking away from some other guy that would not nearly sell as much as Rock, and watch the damn show. The Rock is saving the business for the long run in my opinion and just because he had a few notes on wrist, does that really mean he is a phony. No it does not. Just remember this simple fact, without Rock leaving, there would have never been a CeNation or John Cena at least not as big and popular as it is today. Anyways, thanks for hearing me out.

 

[Aberle4Life]

So, the Rock would have been on top for another nine years if he had stayed? That would have been well over a decade straight as THE guy in WWE. As stale as people complain Cena is, imagine what people would be saying if we were fed nothing but Rock all this time.

You can't say that Rock leaving is why Cena got to where he is. Rock got where he was with Austin and a plethora of other greats around--Cena would have jumped up to his spot regardless of if Rock was around or not. Especially with two brands--Rock would have been on one, Cena would have been the star on the other--and the fact that WWE lost all the other talent they did in the few years after Rock left full-time.

It may have taken another year (at most), but John Cena was destined to be a top guy in the WWE. Rock was never and would never be the only main event face. Cena got where he was from his dedication and marketability. Rock being in WWE or not being in WWE didn't alter that, in my opinion.

 

[ForzaItalia]

So, the Rock would have been on top for another nine years if he had stayed? That would have been well over a decade straight as THE guy in WWE. As stale as people complain Cena is, imagine what people would be saying if we were fed nothing but Rock all this time.

You can't say that Rock leaving is why Cena got to where he is. Rock got where he was with Austin and a plethora of other greats around--Cena would have jumped up to his spot regardless of if Rock was around or not. Especially with two brands--Rock would have been on one, Cena would have been the star on the other--and the fact that WWE lost all the other talent they did in the few years after Rock left full-time.

It may have taken another year (at most), but John Cena was destined to be a top guy in the WWE. Rock was never and would never be the only main event face. Cena got where he was from his dedication and marketability. Rock being in WWE or not being in WWE didn't alter that, in my opinion.

Well obviously he would have called it quits at sometime in that time span, but think about it. If The Rock contiued to be The People's Champ and never became Hollywood Rock , don't you think he would have stayed at the peak of the mountain for a very long time preventing Cena from getting the massive fan base he has today? Don't get me wrong here, Cena was destined to be a popular guy, but I just think with The Rock still at his peak in '03 and never turning heel that he would have overshadowed Cena's journey to being the next top player in WWE. But, it's your opinion and this is mine.

 

[PlayTheGame]

You may have a point, but I think that a different person's departure from the WWE led to Cena's rise in a much more direct fashion. Brock Lesnar. I had a pretty good thread on the matter a little while back, but basically I believe that the Rock's departure opened the door wide open for Lesnar, who's departure in turn then left the door wide open for Cena. Lesnar left the WWE shortly after Wrestlemania 20, which is when Cena began to rise. With Lesnar gone, the WWE had to turn to a new young star to back, and they went with Cena. So, in a way, I think Rock's departure may have had an impact Cena, but in a removed sense. I think it allowed Lesnar to get big, who then left, which then allowed Cena to get big. So, in a different way, I agree that the Rock helped Cena in a way.

 

[Headman]

It's been a while since I posted on the forums, but I typed this somewhere else and thought I'd bring this argument up here for discussion. Sorry, if it doesn't belong here and all that stuff, but I think this has to be heard and put a silence to all these people hating on The Rock.

Back in 2003, Rock wanted out, he was losing his passion for the business and thankfully he got out because now we still remember him as The Great One and not a washed up shadow of himself if he had stayed and won another 14 titles. I mean the guy just winning another whole set of WWE title runs would just be overdone and you could tell he wanted something new to challenge himself, that being Hollywood.

Because The Rock left, it gave others the chance to shine and show what they are made of. Others as in Cena. If Rock would have stayed, he would be the guy still on top today and Cena would have never been the top dog to begin with. Just remember this: There would have never been any John Cena if The Rock hadn't left and given his top spot to someone else. Sure Cena had his whole Doctor of Thuganomics going on, but would that really have been enough to surpass The Rock, even if he wasn't performing on the level we all know he could perform on?

So, if The Rock wants to come back and have one match to help the product he helped make into what it is today, then why all this hate? If you hadn't noticed yet, Rock will be the guy that is finally going to help Cena get to that next level of "larger than life" superstar. He is here for two reasons:to entertain us and help out the business he grew up loving. The Rock is not back for just the big payday, trust me he makes a lot more in Hollywood than in a wrestling company that barely gets over 250,000 PPV buys (excluding Wrestlemania). If anyone at all thinks anyone in that locker room can do the same thing The Rock is doing right now, please comment, but if not stop whining that The Rock is taking away from some other guy that would not nearly sell as much as Rock, and watch the damn show. The Rock is saving the business for the long run in my opinion and just because he had a few notes on wrist, does that really mean he is a phony. No it does not. Just remember this simple fact, without Rock leaving, there would have never been a CeNation or John Cena at least not as big and popular as it is today. Anyways, thanks for hearing me out.

I'm confused. You say he'd be a washed up shadow of himself but he'd still be the top guy and no one else would be able to get over while he was there? Seems to me that the WWE probably would have created other stars and Cena would have been one of them.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Rock coming back and accepting to do things like "The notes on the wrist promo" etc are ruining his great legacy.

BTW Cena only became the top guy because Brock Lesnar left. If Brock Lesnar wouldn't have left the WWE in 2004 then Cena won't be as big as he is today.

 

[ForzaItalia]

I'm confused. You say he'd be a washed up shadow of himself but he'd still be the top guy and no one else would be able to get over while he was there? Seems to me that the WWE probably would have created other stars and Cena would have been one of them.

I'm sorry should have been more clear. If The Rock stayed instead of going to Hollywood that would have meant he was still passionate about wrestling and never would have left. But, after 6 years he wanted something new and was smart enough to know it was time to leave and leave behind a legacy the fans could be proud of. I agree Cena still would have been a star, but I just don't think he would as massive as he is today if Rock would have stayed because Vince would have been in no rush to create a new face of the company.

 

[Headman]

I'm sorry should have been more clear. If The Rock stayed instead of going to Hollywood that would have meant he was still passionate about wrestling and never would have left. But, after 6 years he wanted something new and was smart enough to know it was time to leave and leave behind a legacy the fans could be proud of. I agree Cena still would have been a star, but I just don't think he would as massive as he is today if Rock would have stayed because Vince would have been in no rush to create a new face of the company.

Well I agree that the Rock was smart to pursue other passions. I mean nobody is telling joe schmoe internet fan not to leave his job at burger king to work behind a desk and wear a tie. That's why despite the fact that I am not a fan of the Rock's I have no problem with him leaving to do movies. With that said, it's hard to tell if Cena benefited from the absence of the Rock or perhaps he suffered a bit for not having the likes of Stone Cold or the Rock as active wrestlers while he was coming up. It's possible that facing these guys earlier in his career would have given him a nice rub and taken some of the fire power away from his current critics. It's impossible to predict which way it would have gone.

 

[RJJ]

I have to agree with you. I've always wondered what could've happened if Rock stayed 4, 5 more yrs. IMO, I think Rock would've had a long dominating heel run(Just like hollywood hogan in WCW) on smackdown. The reason I said smackdown is because I believe Rock switched to Raw for one reason and that is to beat austin. With Rock running SD and HHH running Raw, Cena would've never reached that level of success.

As for "Rock getting stale" believers, his last heel(hollywood Rock) run was something new and fresh, the fans loved it, and it could've lasted atleast 3 more yrs.

 

[I Heart Cena]

Rock coming back and accepting to do things like "The notes on the wrist promo" etc are ruining his great legacy.

I agree 100%. What Rock doesn't realize is that if he successfully plays a chump in a movie, he'll get praised for being a good actor. However, if he does that in wrestling, only fans like us will praise his acting ability. The rest of the knobs out there will think that he actually is a chump.

You should see twitter and youtube comments. "lol rock got pwned he got nervus lol! dayum cena rulz derp derp" is what some mouthbreathers out there have been saying, thinking this is all real. This could affect Rock at the box office, since his movies are aimed at kids.

This is where you kinda gotta respect Hogan's egomania. There's no way Hogan woulda agreed to put cena over like that. And Hogan would have gotten his way because he knows when a wrestling company needs him more than he needs the wrestling co.

Monday nite was like witnessing sports entertainment welfare. Cena, who can't get over on his own, was given yet another free handout. Has any wrestler been helped more than him?

The rest of this match's buildup will be cringeworthy. It'll probably make me stop watching yet again.

 

[mrfantastic111]

You may have a point, but I think that a different person's departure from the WWE led to Cena's rise in a much more direct fashion. Brock Lesnar.

That was pretty much what I was going to point out.

Cena's popularity in 2005 was huge compared to almost any other mid-carder at this point. Sometimes people forget just how popular he was with EVERYONE, not just women and kids. He was destined to jump up to a top spot. Maybe not THE top spot, but somewhere up there.

What irritates me about people bashing the Rock for taking a spot up the top and stopping others from having a big match at WM28, is that the Rock was away for 7 years... 7 YEARS! No one has a right to complain about not getting to the top spot because of Rock, because he already gave them 7 years of space and opportunity to attempt to fill the void.

You can hate Cena all you want, but he took the spot during a time where no one else was fit to fill Rocky's shoes, and he ran and ran with it. Also, I know this is cliche, but Cena has been so dedicated and has stuck around for so long compared to all of the others who were around when he made his rise to the top. He's outlasted JBL, Rocky, Batista, Jericho, Lesnar amongst others. I know that they all had their own aspirations, but the fact that Cena has been offered acting roles, a rapping career and he still stuck around to carry the top spot for the past 6-7 years says alot about the guys character.

I love the Rock, but I think that Cena has more heart for the WWE then any other performer in the company right now. Although the fans are 50/50 about him now, there's no doubt in my mind that when he retires and joins all of the greats in the hall of fame, he will be shown the respect that he deserves. I think that had Rock and Cena had been together around 2005-7, Cena and Rock would of had a few clashes. Batista was pretty popular, but the rub of 'fad' stardom wore off from Batista alot faster then it did for Cena. I think that Batista was meant to be 'the man' having beaten HHH at WM21 and destroying evolution from the inside over the year, but over time it was obvious that management began to turn to Cena.

 

[Davi323]

None of you are correct. John Cena is who made John Cena a star, not the Rock, not Brock Lesnar.

Talent always rises to the top. Those wrestlers who have "it" will have "it" regardless of who else is on the roster. Brock Lesnar isn't responsible for John Cena's work ethic. The Rock isn't responsible for John Cena's ability to trash talk on a microphone.

John Cena was always going to be John Cena. Even without the Rock or Lesnar leaving, Cena would have risen to the top, because he earned it.

 

[BigPoppaPunk]

Rock coming back and accepting to do things like "The notes on the wrist promo" etc are ruining his great legacy.

Here's where I disagree with most IWC opinion on this matter. Rock apparently always used notes or was scripted in his promos. Did that limit his delivering good to great promos? No, he completely owned everyone before his departure from WWE in 2004. I think this is where most ppl confuse him "ruining a great legacy", with WWE intentionally TRYING to make The Rock look weak. It's clear WWE would rather censor Rock and make him look weak in order to have Cena look strong. In the process, it also ensures IMO that this feud won't be as good as it could potentially be. While I do admit I have been disappointed with The Rock since his "return" last year, he's still more entertaining scripted than Cena is improving his promos.

I find it interesting that alot of ppl are claiming Rock sucks now, when it's WWE that's screwing this up. Trying to protect Cena's image at Rock's expense totally kills any momentum this match could have. While I don't completely disagree with the argument that he's not as good as he used to be, the fact that he can still come in and work the crowd and be around(despite not really needing WWE), is worthy of Rock receiving credit here.

W Cena only became the top guy because Brock Lesnar left. If Brock Lesnar wouldn't have left the WWE in 2004 then Cena won't be as big as he is today.

While I can't completely disagree with you here, your logic isn't totally true. Cena was getting over well and was already being called the future. In his case, it was only a matter of time. Brock Lesnar leaving definately may have speeded things up a little, but Lesnar alone couldn't carry SD. In theory, if he stayed, he would've needed a consistent nemisis, and Cena was already begining a rivarly with him, so again, I gotta reiterate he would've been huge anyway.

Saying it as fact may be premature, as we'll never know for sure, since it is only mere speculation at best.

 

[Negrodamus]

None of you are correct. John Cena is who made John Cena a star, not the Rock, not Brock Lesnar.

Talent always rises to the top. Those wrestlers who have "it" will have "it" regardless of who else is on the roster. Brock Lesnar isn't responsible for John Cena's work ethic. The Rock isn't responsible for John Cena's ability to trash talk on a microphone.

John Cena was always going to be John Cena. Even without the Rock or Lesnar leaving, Cena would have risen to the top, because he earned it.

Nobody is saying Cena didn't work to get to the top, what they are saying is the departures sped things up a bit.

Where your wrong right now is The Rock is responsible for the reason Cena is looking good right now, seriously we all know The Rock would have never let Cena get off those comments and wait for him to go to the back.

This script is made so Cena can get respect back from those who love The Rock and the AE and it is clearly working. This is thanks to The Rock to allow them to script it like this. it is the ultimate rub and we still cant predict a winner at this point at WM.

People really dont know mic skills to a live audience The Rock is the best because no matter how repetitive it is the crowd loves it and cant wait to play along. The crowd holds onto his every word even the fluff. He Entertains the people.

They buy a ticket when he is there because they know they are going to have fun, they feel a part of the show. I know for sure on Monday people were waiting for him to say Finally.... ( which he didnt) and his millions AND millions catchphrases. all this is The WWE to dumb down the character to give Cena a chance to win back those casual fans that were lost by the departures of those stars. once again if it works its the ultimate rub

 

[WWEvsJosh]

Here's where I disagree with most IWC opinion on this matter. Rock apparently always used notes or was scripted in his promos. Did that limit his delivering good to great promos? No, he completely owned everyone before his departure from WWE in 2004. I think this is where most ppl confuse him "ruining a great legacy", with WWE intentionally TRYING to make The Rock look weak. It's clear WWE would rather censor Rock and make him look weak in order to have Cena look strong. In the process, it also ensures IMO that this feud won't be as good as it could potentially be. While I do admit I have been disappointed with The Rock since his "return" last year, he's still more entertaining scripted than Cena is improving his promos.

I find it interesting that alot of ppl are claiming Rock sucks now, when it's WWE that's screwing this up. Trying to protect Cena's image at Rock's expense totally kills any momentum this match could have. While I don't completely disagree with the argument that he's not as good as he used to be, the fact that he can still come in and work the crowd and be around(despite not really needing WWE), is worthy of Rock receiving credit here.

I have a quick question how do you KNOW they are trying to make The Rock look bad. I am not saying its not a work but its not like the WWE came up to on here said "Hey we made the Rock look bad tonight so Cena could look better" Plus I dont think they would tell him "Look bad but still get things tweeting and have the fans chating things, still bring up the Cena lady parts, talk about how he gets booed everynight, tell the fans that he has your cell phone so he can talk to you if he likes but make sure you look bad during all this". Maybe just maybe The Rock had a bad night and got called out on somthing. BUT I am not saying its NOT a work but I am not acting like I KNOW what really went down.

 

[Miz_Mark]

Monday nite was like witnessing sports entertainment welfare. Cena, who can't get over on his own, was given yet another free handout. Has any wrestler been helped more than him?

Ok, this is just absurd. Cena is the most over guy in the company and has been for several years. It is inane to claim that was handed to him, you can't hand over like that to someone and keep them that over for years on end, it's impossible. Cena is over like a bastard and will be over like a bastard regardless of who they put him against because he is a hugely talented individual. Love him or hate him, that's flat out the truth.

As for whether Cena was helped or hindered by Rock's departure, that's impossible to answer. We cannot see what might have been.

And as for the people who don't appreciate the Rock leaving the industry that made him famous and then coming back for a cup of coffee and immediately being given a top spot, that's a totally valid opinion. Disagree with it if you want, but you can't tell those people they are WRONG.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I'm not sure on this one tbh while I agree that if Rock had stuck around it would certainly have been a lot harder for Cena to establish himself as the biggets star in the company, I still think he would have been one of them. Rock has never been one to hold back talent he would probably have recognised Cena as the future and put him over in the same way he did Lesnar giving Cena if anything a tremendous rub.

I can understand the debate that if Rock, Lesnar and HHH had all been there permanently from 2003 to now then the top spots in the company would have been very crowded but with the brand split Cena would still have been given the opportunity to showcase his talent in the main event. If anything I think Cena would have eventually taken Brocks place in a similar manner to the way he eclipsed Batista so would still be one of the biggets guys in the company.

 

[BaconBits]

If The Rock and Lesnar had never left, Cena would still, without a doubt, be a top guy. He likely wouldn't be "the" guy the way he is now, but he'd definitely, without a doubt be a major main event player. He also probably wouldn't be SuperCena, as he would have been a heel for most of that time for sure.

I'd also bet Trips would still be a full time main event player if both guys would have stayed. I would also venture a guess Batista would also still be around.

The guys that would have suffered the most are guys like Orton, Sheamus, Punk, and Bryan. They'd be no more than upper midcarders if the main event scene was that crowded.

I do think both Raw and Smackdown would be more interesting shows though. No more A and B shows.

 

[MCMG]

So are you trying to say that because of the rock leaving John Cena was able to become the top star.

Well, that could be said at whoever became topstar after the rock left. It was not just John Cena who may have benefited but everyone would have moved up a place in the roster. You could argue that the rock only became the ' top star' (Austin would debate that i'm sure) because HBK was injured as if he was still around then HBK would be the biggest star in the wwe. We could go back throughout the history of wrestling individually picking out each time period and saying that if THIS wrestler left then THIS wreslter would not have become big.

John Cena would have probably become a big star regardless of the Rock leaving when he did. As would Orton, Punk, Batista etc. These guys clearly had enough to be viewed as main event superstars so the rock leaving would not have change that.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I agree that people should stop mindlessly bashing The Rock just because he decided to try his hat at being a movie star. It's not as if he hadn't already done everything that there was to do in the WWE. At the same time, however, I also think people need to stop blowing The Rock and get up off their knees for a while.

The idea that Cena becoming the top star just because The Rock left is 1000% percent speculation with little to no evidence to back it up. For all we know, it could have been The Rock vs. John Cena at WM XX with The Rock putting Cena over for the WWE Championship. If Rock had stayed, there's a good chance that his role would have changed somewhat and was also being used to help put over younger talent while still maintaining his stance as one of the top dogs in the company. It's the kind of role that Randy Orton has right now. Like The Rock, Randy Orton has done everything there is to do in WWE. Just like in 2005 when Rock would have been in his early 30s, Randy Orton is currently in his early 30s and he has a role where he's putting over other guys while still maintaining a spot as one of the top guys. In the past year, he's put over the likes of Sheamus, Christian, Mark Henry, Cody Rhodes & Wade Barrett. Who is to say that WWE wouldn't have done the exact same thing with The Rock back in the mid 2000s had he stayed with the company?

I know it's always fashionable to bash John Cena, but this is more than slightly ridiculous in my view. Cena's a guy that's worked his ass off for the WWE, he's gotten over with fans, he's been consistently featured in feuds that not only garner peoples' attention but keeps them emotionally interested and he's been in some very memorable matches during his time as the "face" of the WWE. Just disliking Cena is one thing, but to ignore these facts just out of sheer dislike is just ludicrous. I hate rap music, but I'd be a fool to say that Tupac Shakur wasn't one of the most infuential recording artists of the past 20 years.

 

[xavyer]

Well, some of you said that the reason for Cena's success is because of the Rock leaving, and that he's back to make Cena's carreer better?? Well, remeber wrestlemania XVIII, when the Rock faced Hulk Hogan? So i can say that the Rock became huge because of Hogan? No, i can't, and no, the Rock is not helping Cena, because he does not need help, he's already at the top, has anyone wondered why is the Rock facing Cena at wrestlemania? it's simple, he probably wants one last match, and who better than the face of the company, that way he can say that "he passed the torch to Cena", but everyone will know that is bs, if the Rock stayed all this time it wouldn't have mattered, Cena would of become a big star anyway, and in my opinion he would have still beaten the Rock in any match, just like he beat Triple H in a Wrestlemania main event, in fact i think that if the Rock stayed in the WWE it would have helped more the Rock than Cena, the reason is that a the time Cena was a main event waiting to happen and he could have keep the Rock relevant for some more time, because he gat beaten by Lesnar, so to keep himself in the picture he would have to face someone like Cena to still be on the map, so in my opinion, Cena is the one helping the Rock, not the other way around.........

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I agree with some points. If the Rock had stayed, he would have had very few people who could take the top spot from him. No one had the fans in the palm of his hand the way that Rock did. He sold the most merchandise aside from Austin, he brought in the ratings, buyrates, he would be my choice to be the top guy. Unfortunately, backstage politics stops a lot of things from happening.

I find it kind of stupid that people really believe that Cena believes what he says about the Rock. The truth is Cena knows that he is getting an enormous opportunity here, working with the Rock and nothing he's done before and probably nothing he'll ever do afterwards, will ever be as monumental as his match against Rock at WM. WWE reached out to Rock after Vince got an earful from shareholders who were less than happy with returns from the company. 3 straight WMs had started a downward buyrate total. Vince reached out to the Rock to host last year's WM and after that WM was finished, Rock and WWE negotiated the terms to have Rock face Cena at this years WM. WWE was on a downward turn when they called the Rock. If Cena was big enough before this match, WWE wouldn't pay up the Rock to be there. Why pay a guy you don't need a fortune to show up for 2 matches video segments and a few Raw shows ? The attention this match gets is in large part due to Rock. Cena is big, but he's not the icon or the mainstream star the Rock is.

 

[WWEvsJosh]

Not many Wrestlers left the WWE because they were old or retired. I mean we could say Austin and Rock would not be big stars IF Bret hart stayed and HBK did not get hurt. We could also say that HBK and Hart would not be stars if Hogan stayed and Warrior stayed. You see the problem with that? So its not fair to say The Rock helped Cena. Cena helped Cena and got over because of Cena.

 

[My Couch Pulls Out But I Don't]

I am trying to understand the OP's point and I kind of do, but to a very, very small extent.

If The Rock would have stayed around, I am almost certain that John Cean would have been the guy to challenge him on a regular basis. If The Rock was a face, Cena most likely (in his thuganomics gimmick) would have been the guy he went up against 90% of the time.

After all that, The Rock would have eventually left, opening the door for a John Cena face turn and the Cena we have today.

The Rock being around would not have, at all, in any shape or form, prevented Cena from becoming as big as he is, it would have just put it on hold for a year or two. Either way it was going to happen.

 

[crippler]

BTW Cena only became the top guy because Brock Lesnar left. If Brock Lesnar wouldn't have left the WWE in 2004 then Cena won't be as big as he is today.

That is not 100% true Brock leaving was about 50% of the reason the other 50% was the death of Eddie Guerrero.