How can WWE stop this decline?

[Broski_of_the_week]

I know this will seem like an overly negative post about WWE, but due to the recent rumours about the Wrestlemania card I think an overall thread needs to be made along these lines.

What I really want to see from this is what WWE is missing from the current product and how it can be changed to save the wrestling business. Despite the announcement of the WWE network and PPV and TV ratings being disastrous, overall the product has basically turned to shit and it is showing (slowly but surely) in the ratings and buyrates. We all know the McMahons wont need to sign on the dole any time soon but to know your business is slowly plummeting should worry these people, but it just doesnt seem to. They stick to the same ideals and plans and refuse to acknowledge the fan aspect (Daniel Bryan is the perfect example). They want to be an 'entertainment' company, but the point is, they still perform in front of a live audience weekly who come to see a wrestling show. The problem with this is that the fans reaction plays into the viewers reaction and by playing to the children, the crowd isn't quite as lively as it has been in the past. So WWE cant be Sons Of Anarchy because its not a truly immersive experience, you watch it and are fully aware of others opinions on each storyline etc. SO HOW DO THEY FIX THIS?


IMO, Raw needs to build to something each week. Yes theres a 'main event segment', but the show has too many twists and turns until that moment. This means the main event moment stars should NEVER enter the 'arena' area of Raw until that moment, to keep their pop intact, but between the matches and other segments, all backstage segments should relate to the main event moment. On top of that, each Raw SHOULD have a spectacle match, something people want to tune into and something that wont have an obvious cheap finish. The IC title and Tag titles should be defended on Raw and should be full, top quality matches with title changes. This would improve the prestige of the titles as people would have reason to care and would also have a reason for the 'wrestling' fans to tune in. At the moment Raw is just rematch after rematch that I personally skip through as they aren't meant to be top quality matches and are just filler. It makes the show hard to watch and leaves the crowd uninterested, which leads into a lackluster climax to the show every single week.

I know I've rambled so now I'll pose some questions that you lovely people can discuss:

What sort of segments do you think would improve the weekly product of WWE?
What overall direction should WWE be taking to really draw in fans?

and finally...

Do you think that the 3 hour Raws actually progress storylines etc LESS than the old 2 hour shows or more? (personally I think they do less... I mean WHERE ARE THE MIDCARD FEUDS OF TODAY?! Surely a 3 hour raw can provide interesting midcard promos, matches and storylines, instead we just see squash after rematch after interference for no reason other than 'these guys don't like each other!')

I hope this all makes sense, I haven't proofread it and I hate rambling pointless posts re-iterating the same points as much as the next guy, thats why I created a thread to just get an overall feel on things rather than people giving fantasy booking shit so please refrain from going there you crazy sumbitches!

 

[L@RISANO]

Personally, as a guy who tuned out of WWE for a couple of years and then tuned back in, post-SummerSlam 2013, the RAW programming has been quite good after Survivor Series 2013.

In the time between Summerslam and Survivor Series, it was utter crap viewing, from the Storylines(seeing Big Show cry like a baby....can't put it in words, Daniel Bryan beaten down weekly,HHH and Stephanie...Orton...enough said) and the fact that with Cena and Sheamus and 0 Part-Time Stars(well, RVD was there with Del Rio,tbf), it was also very light in the Main Event scene.
However, since Survivor Series, the feuds have been interesting without being the greatest ever viewing whatwith the WWE Creative pulling the plug quickly on a couple storylines, and not building on some feuds as they should have.
The Main Event scene has now picked up drastically, so thr\at we might well have upto 4/5 Storylines where Major Superstars will be a part of. Now, with Cena back, the return of Batista and Lesnar, in addition to D-Bry,CM Punk and Randy Orton...ntm, the possible returns of Y2J, Sheamus, RVD, and the Undertaker.

Also, most importantly, the WWE has been in this time, especially post-Survivor Series, been building some possible future stars; Roman Reigns(and the Shield), Big E Langston, Bray Wyatt. In addition, there is some good potential in the Mid-Card as well. The tag team division has also been thriving.

However, one thing I will agree with that was said by the OP, is that WWE Creative has been lazy in terms of Mid-Card feuds, or rather, having feuds involving Mid-Carders. In that regard, all I have seen are the failed and boring Brodus Clay Heel turn story and the Miz vs Kofi story. We have gotten the usual x vs y, x beats y, nxt show, same match again but opposite result. Or, we get the same 2 guys/teams do rematch after rematch for no reason. If feuds are actually built in the Mid-Card, involving the Mid-Carders and the Mid-Card title(s), then it would be a huge boost to programming.

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

The WrestleMania card is rumored but sadly I won't be surprised if it actually happened. I must say, it is not looking very promising. I mean, you have Cena vs Wyatt which will be a god awful match with probably a god awful build and considering it's WrestleMania the expectations are always much higher. You have Batista vs Orton, match that would of been cool for WrestleMania 25 (not 30) and here we are 5 years later all over again.

Another option I am hearing is Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker which I am sure will draw, the fact is that The Undertaker is 48 years old. I personally think he is not in good enough shape for it, not saying I have seen him lately but I can just feel it. Overall, since WrestleMania 29 the WWE have been on a decline. IMO, the better card would look like this:

Brock Lesnar (c) vs Batista for the WWE World Championship
John Cena vs The Undertaker
CM Punk vs Triple H

All of these matches will be awesome and throw in Hogan as the guest host you have yourself a card of epic proportions.

 

[CCIV]

Well as I've stated in threads and recent posts I feel it's all about the story. I strongly believe that there is a formula to writing stories and creating stars in wrestling. Nitro and The Attitude Era clearly show that formula in my opinion. The WWE just isn't telling good stories or if they are good they aren't crisp and continuous.

I haven't watched TNA in 2 years but I know who they've added and subtracted over those years on screen and off screen and whatever the structure is they seem to be following this formula I'm taking about because The TNA Genesis special ( at least part 1 since I haven't seen Part 2 yet) is the best wrestling show from beginning to end I've seen in years. From the stories I saw to all the little details that matter such as a wrestlers catch phrase, his look, his acting, and of course his in ring ability. Whoever is crafting the characters is doing it right and the matches are good. IMO the WWE needs to watch and remember that there is a way to do it. And I'm not a TNA fanboy. I just see what's real.

If "The Authority" is going to be "The Story" then we need clear cut sides and the WWE hasn't don't that. Show us who is in and who isn't then build on those individual stories within the bigger story. For some reason we get short stories and they don't build to anything. Get back to basics, pay attention to the details and tell stories.

 

[Kamala316]

How to make the product better:

1. Less talk, more wrestling. When you have less than an hour of wrestling on a 3+ hour show, it's ridiculous. With more in-ring action, the audience is engaged, and wwe gets more storylines going, opening up booking options. If you need to do interviews, do it like they did on Old School Raw with a pop up window in the corner, and an interview that is "to the point".

2. Get rid of the GM. The Authority pretty much shows up (multiple times on camera) and rambles on/does what it wants, so eliminate Brad Maddox/Vickie Guerrero (i.e. - the bathroom break) from tv.

3. Keep your commentators on task, calling the match, rather than plugging their own interests. It's not fun having to listen to an ongoing argument for 3+ hours, it takes away from what they should be doing - putting the talent in the ring over.

4. Better booking. Interpretations and opinions will differ, but after seeing Batista's lackluster return, WWE needs to stop bringing in part-timers to try and increase viewers/buyrates (Brock was an exception), and build up their younger talent.


5. Lastly, WWE can stop this decline by listening to the fans. I'm not a huge Daniel Bryan fan, but I respect the hell out of his work ethic, and his passion for what he does. He is white hot right now...why not capitalize on this? Instead, we might be "treated" to Orton vs. Batista. Give it about 5 seconds after the bell rings, and you will hear chants of "Boring", "Daniel Bryan", and "Yes!".

Thoughts?

 

[CyberPunk]

Everyday I see tonnes of threads regarding how to stop WWE decline. WWE is not perfect, nobody can be. But when it comes to putting up a show, WWE does more right than wrong. The problem is because of the "open secret" nature of pro wrestling in general. Dirt sheets and wrestling web sites constantly speculate on the future of a storyline before it has even begun.

Popularity of any star is subjective. And there are so many opinions on how a certain star be booked. If E ran its shows according to our whims and fancies, it would have gone out of business long ago. E doesn't get everything right, but it gets a lot of things they do way better than all other promotions. The fact that it is a publicly traded company makes things that much harder.

There is room for improvement, yes. They can be more consistent with their storylines. Hell, they can do more storylines for mid and undercards. Not all stars can be at the top at the same time. So they can showcase them in different feuds, book their midcard championship(s) better.

The notion that WWE has lost a lot of viewership doesn't sit well with me. This is the era of Internet. WWE shows still get high ratings on their respective networks. Also, their is enough viewership through Internet which is totally unaccounted for. Yes, wrestling is not as popular as it used to be. Still there is enough interest in WWE (not wrestling in general may be).

I would say, more than anything, we should be a bit more patient with the current product. Things take time to shape up and this is that time of the year when we'll see regular guys taking a backseat to some of the returning part timers. Plus, the official road to Wrestlemania hasn't begun yet. A show may entertain you at times, may not on some other times, but WWE and wrestling in general is in good enough shape. Nothing to worry about just yet.

 

[chicagokmc]

How to make the product better:

1. Less talk, more wrestling. When you have less than an hour of wrestling on a 3+ hour show, it's ridiculous. With more in-ring action, the audience is engaged, and wwe gets more storylines going, opening up booking options. If you need to do interviews, do it like they did on Old School Raw with a pop up window in the corner, and an interview that is "to the point".

2. Get rid of the GM. The Authority pretty much shows up (multiple times on camera) and rambles on/does what it wants, so eliminate Brad Maddox/Vickie Guerrero (i.e. - the bathroom break) from tv.

3. Keep your commentators on task, calling the match, rather than plugging their own interests. It's not fun having to listen to an ongoing argument for 3+ hours, it takes away from what they should be doing - putting the talent in the ring over.

4. Better booking. Interpretations and opinions will differ, but after seeing Batista's lackluster return, WWE needs to stop bringing in part-timers to try and increase viewers/buyrates (Brock was an exception), and build up their younger talent.


5. Lastly, WWE can stop this decline by listening to the fans. I'm not a huge Daniel Bryan fan, but I respect the hell out of his work ethic, and his passion for what he does. He is white hot right now...why not capitalize on this? Instead, we might be "treated" to Orton vs. Batista. Give it about 5 seconds after the bell rings, and you will hear chants of "Boring", "Daniel Bryan", and "Yes!".

Thoughts?

Agree with many of these thoughts.

In regards to less talk, my problem is that most of the talk is spent revisiting what went on earlier IN THE SAME EPISODE! I don't need to see 2 different recaps of Batista coming to the ring or Big Show tossing around Lesnar. The other tv shows are just as bad.

I think there are too many hours of WWE programming on tv. It worked when they at least tried to make Smackdown distinct. But now the only thing that differentiates the shows the useless GM position. Smackdown is truly Raw lite now. If Rhodes are facing New Age Outlaws at PPV and a Raw episode gives us Cody vs Gunn, Smackdown just gives us the other half of Dustin vs Road Dogg. It is hard to rationalize why one would have to watch both shows. Either take Raw back down to 2 hours and work to make both shows different yet entertaining, or keep Raw as is and just take Smackdown off the air. It'll never happen but that's my opinion.

And they need to stop giving us the same matches over and over. The latest tactic is the "best 2 of 3" covering a Raw, Smackdown and the following Raw. They did this with Sandow/Ziggler and just did this again with Mysterio/Del Rio. There are so many wrestlers around we should be able to get some variety.

Lastly for now, it will also never happen, but they should cut back on the number of PPVs. Things were so much more enjoyable in the days where there was only Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, King of the Ring and Survivor Series. There is a PPV/month now and that is overkill, especially when you factor in that nothing of significance usually happens at these events. Hell half the time title holders are in tag team or doing other things and not even defending titles.

 

[CCIV]

RAW will get 3.5 to 4 million viewers every week no matter what, barring a long string of horrible shows. So things need to be done to make that "always there" audience tell their friends/relatives/coworkers that they are missing out. I've said before that wrestling will never change, its two people in a ring at the heart of it. So you make the in ring story mean something.

Exhibit A "The Bland Way": Ziggler vs Sandow. We were told a short story involving these two but it did nothing for either of them and the viewers had no reason to watch. Where did the story go? Where are they now?

Exhibit B "The Right Way": Ziggler vs Sandow. Sandow is part of The Authority and Ziggler is part of the Locker room against The Authority. The match becomes Sandow w/Steph vs Ziggler. Steph gets involved, Daniel Bryan joins Zig ringside to even the odds. Bryan and Steph get involved in the match with near misses on both sides, HHH sees Steph getting too involved and makes a run in. HHH goes for Bryan but he ducks and HHH hits Sandow. Ziggler finishes Sandow and he and Bryan escape with the win leaving The Authority looking like the buffoons in the ring. Story!!

We know who is on what side.
We know Ziggler is equal to Bryan and the locker room. We know Sandow is equal to and important to Steph and HHH.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Everyday I see tonnes of threads regarding how to stop WWE decline. WWE is not perfect, nobody can be. But when it comes to putting up a show, WWE does more right than wrong. The problem is because of the "open secret" nature of pro wrestling in general. Dirt sheets and wrestling web sites constantly speculate on the future of a storyline before it has even begun.

Popularity of any star is subjective. And there are so many opinions on how a certain star be booked. If E ran its shows according to our whims and fancies, it would have gone out of business long ago. E doesn't get everything right, but it gets a lot of things they do way better than all other promotions. The fact that it is a publicly traded company makes things that much harder.

There is room for improvement, yes. They can be more consistent with their storylines. Hell, they can do more storylines for mid and undercards. Not all stars can be at the top at the same time. So they can showcase them in different feuds, book their midcard championship(s) better.

The notion that WWE has lost a lot of viewership doesn't sit well with me. This is the era of Internet. WWE shows still get high ratings on their respective networks. Also, their is enough viewership through Internet which is totally unaccounted for. Yes, wrestling is not as popular as it used to be. Still there is enough interest in WWE (not wrestling in general may be).

I would say, more than anything, we should be a bit more patient with the current product. Things take time to shape up and this is that time of the year when we'll see regular guys taking a backseat to some of the returning part timers. Plus, the official road to Wrestlemania hasn't begun yet. A show may entertain you at times, may not on some other times, but WWE and wrestling in general is in good enough shape. Nothing to worry about just yet.

This is pretty much all there is to be said about it. WWE is NEVER going to be perfect as there's no such thing as a perfect product. No wrestler can be all things to all fans, nor can any single feud, match, angle, storyline or title usage. It's just not the least bit feasible under any circumstances. That doesn't mean that anyone is wrong for citing something they don't like, we all do that, but there comes a time when you have to look at everything that's going on and decide if you enjoy enough of it to keep watching. If the answer is no, then I don't see the point of wasting your time watching it.

As for the rumored WrestleMania card, I was waiting for the complaints to start. It happens every single year whenever the rumored top matches leak out over the internet, and this year is no different. Someone feels this match should go on, or this guy should be in this certain spot, or that this guy should go into the show as champion and all this going on while wanting some of their childhood favorites to play a major part in the show for the sake of nostalgia, etc. It'll be that way next year, and the year after that, and so on. All five of the RUMORED top matches sound good on paper.

Doesn't mean I agree with all of them. For instance, I've little to no desire to see Orton vs. Batista. MAYBE my mind will be changed between now & WrestleMania XXX, if this is indeed the match they go with, but I don't have high hopes as I've just never been a big fan of Batista.

Cena vs. Wyatt has the potential to be intriguing, especially if John Cena is in serious mode as he was for the vast majority of last year. You know, not cutting lame jokes or trying to be all cutesy as though his opponent is nothing to worry about. As for Wyatt himself, we know he can more than carry his weight on the mic; now we just need to see him get some more definitive in-ring time.

We've figured that Taker vs. Lesnar was going to happen and I'm mixed on this, like a lot of other people. While I'm worried for Taker's safety as a fan and as a human being, I don't wanna see any wrestler get screwed up, I also think this could be another show stealing match that I'm excited about. I think it's fair to say that a whole lot of people know where I'm coming from on this.

When it comes to Punk vs. Triple H & Bryan vs. Sheamus, the term "unfinished business" pops up in my head as it seems to fit both matches. By the time WrestleMania comes around, it'll have been over 2.5 years since Punk & Trips had their one & only match, at SummerSlam 2011, and nothing was "settled" in the feud. As for Bryan & Sheamus, Sheamus handed Bryan his most "humiliating" defeat nearly 2 years ago, beating him for the WHC in 18 seconds. Bryan is also yet to have a big WrestleMania moment, so this could be his first.

 

[Romer318]

This is actually a place and time in the WWE that I find RAW to be very watchable compared to the past when I quit watching all together. I'm even tuning into Smackdown more, it seems that the talent on the roster right now is excellent. Not just the main event guys either, you have The Shield, The Usos and The Wyatts right now who are, to me super entertaining. I'm very happy with the product they're offering right now, I hope they keep up the good work.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

Egregious mistakes that have lead to what the OP is trying to say


- Expanding RAW to 3 hours without TONS more in-ring actual wrestling time.
- Not pushing certain guys and sticking with it (Bryan and Ziggler come to mind)
- Not shedding the "Top Stars need to be huge" misconception
- Bringing back lackluster idiots who will get a pop for 3 seconds than fade HARD (Batista)

 

[Slbrey]

Can somebody inform me of what decline the WWE is on? Seems the rateings and attendance are about where they normally are....

 

[Romer318]

Egregious mistakes that have lead to what the OP is trying to say


- Expanding RAW to 3 hours without TONS more in-ring actual wrestling time

I agree with this, I'm not too sure they thought the whole expansion through. I was listening to a wrestling podcast earlier that made a really good point, they should really think about adding a cruiserweight division. Just like WCW did back in the day, the fans got to see some really great wrestling they weren't accustomed to seeing normally plus it added ring time instead of overbearing promos.

 

[toon126]

For me the WWE has simply lost its identity. It's caught in between being an entertainment show and thinking its competition to the UFC which is evident by its idea of just throwing big names together in meaningless matches.

They completely fail to get fans to emotionally invest in wrestlers and stories anymore. Does anybody, anybody really give a toss about Del Rio v Mysterio having a 'rubber match'? What in the world is the payoff for the fan? It's lazy, awful, incompetent booking. They've simply lost the ability of writers that know how to captivate an audience like they used to.

The first Taker/Kane feud was one of my favourite angles ever (mind there's a word that's not often used in this day and age - angles), and it was nearly a year in the making. The build up to their match at WM14 had me hooked, Taker refusing to fight him for months, it was brilliant storytelling of a family struggle.

That's what the WWE needs to do, invest time in captivating its audience with feuds that have clear motives, objectives and endings. The Authority angle could have been that, for me it was off to a good start, but it never built on it. They needed to build the authority stable, involve more wrestlers, get clear sides with people from the low, mid and top card all involved. Instead they decided to forget months of work and just have them be, I dunno what they are.

Anyway, yes I crave the attitude era, but I'm also old enough to know that society has changed. But that doesn't mean we can't have the rivalries like Hogan/Savage, Taker/Kane, Austin/McMahon that would dominate television for extended periods, building each week till we were all dying to see the payoff.

Write good television, leave the big names fighting each other to boxing/UFC. Wrestling fans want more than that.

 

[Kamala316]

I couldn't agree more with your points. I actually thought about saying less PPVs, but then I thought with the WWE Network about to launch, there is no way WWE will cut back, as offering PPVs as part of the Network deal will "sweeten the pot" for the buyer, even though half of the PPVs are a glorified episode of Raw. And in my opinion, why buy a PPV like Payback, per se, when I can watch Raw the next night and see pretty much the same card when they offer a bunch of "Payback rematches" for free?

 

[CCIV]

It's a tough topic because firstly these type of threads will always be around, secondly it's not entirely the IWC creating them for no reason .

We do get a great Raw and then 3 crap ones. We are given glimpses of greatness but there just seems to be a lack of care in the writing.

For instance I believe the WWE feels they can say HHH vs CM Punk and that's all they need to do. Throw in the patented WWW storyline model:
Week 1- Face promo
Week 2- Heel Promo
Week 3- Gimmick Match
Week 4- PPV match
Done.

That's just doesn't do it anymore and they just don't seem to get it all the time. We still want passion and creativity in our HHH/Punk story.

Think outside the box! Use all the chess pieces available to you.

In a HHH vs Punk feud you have EVERYONE in The Authority for the heel side and EVERYONE else on the face side. Use these people.

Give us a RoadDawg and Reigns w/Kane vs Punk match one week on Raw. This gives the viewer 4 stories in one match.
1- The Authority vs Non Authority
2- Kane's current story
3- Reigns current story
4- Punk/HHH story
It's not rocket science. Its just laziness or ego.

 

[toon126]

It's a tough topic because firstly these type of threads will always be around, secondly it's not entirely the IWC creating them for no reason .

We do get a great Raw and then 3 crap ones. We are given glimpses of greatness but there just seems to be a lack of care in the writing.

For instance I believe the WWE feels they can say HHH vs CM Punk and that's all they need to do. Throw in the patented WWW storyline model:
Week 1- Face promo
Week 2- Heel Promo
Week 3- Gimmick Match
Week 4- PPV match
Done.

Boom! That's it right there! Most recently they threw Orton v Cena together and called it the biggest match in history for uniting the belts. They're convinced the big names are big draws, which to an extent is true, but good television is week on week story line development with new twists and turns and emotional build up. In boxing you can say 'Pacquiao v Mayweather' and you've got $100m, but WWE needs to realise it's not a sport and go back to what it used to do great.

 

[RicSpade]

The programming is fine, but what WWE really needs is a build to a match for like 2 weeks, nothing better then a big TV build it generates ratings, think about promos for 2 weeks to hype a title match between 2 top stars, or even like a big match such as a retirement match or hair vs hair or something if you advertise it in advance they will watch...just saying

 

[SkyCommanderWinky]

1) Writing

In my mind the WWE needs better stories. They either need to learn how to write intricate and interweaving story-lines like the soap operas they are always compared to or forgo storytelling altogether. Multiple wrestlers / teams / groups need to be fighting for each belt. No more one at a time feuds for six months at a time. They all need to have animosity between each other as well as whoever is holding the belt. If this happens, WWE will get more interesting and simultaneously less predictable. Back in WCW and ECW you wouldn't know who was going to come to the ring or what their motivations would be. I'm not talking about run-ins either, I'm talking about the legitimate opponent. Dirt sheets didn't ruin this, nor did the "PG era". WWE did this because it's easier to appease casual fans with repetition than core fans with something special every night.

2) More Moves / Call The Moves.

It's rare when a Raw match has more than 10 actual wrestling moves in it anymore. It's even more rare when more than a quarter of those moves are called by the play by play commentators. How can I maintain interest in a match if nothing happens and when something does, it's easily missed because nobody said anything about it?

3) Quality over Quantity.

WWE is on the road too much and does too many house shows. I'd rather drive 5 hours once a year to see some good matches in a sold out arena than to see some horrible matches twice a year in my buttfuck nowhere hometown.