Houston Region, Fourth Round: 3 Stages of Hell: (1) Bret Hart vs. (5) John Cena

[klunderbunker]

The following contest is a fourth round match in the Houston Region.

This match takes place in the Astrodome in Houston, Texas.

It is a 3 Stages of Hell match.

Rules: This is a 2/3 Falls match. The first fall will be a street fight match. The second fall will be inside a steel cage. The third fall will be a ladder match
.
#1 Bret Hart

Vs.

#5 John Cena

This contest is one fall with a 60 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting will open in 48 hours and will be open for five days and all posts must be non-spam. You may use the 48 hours to present your cases as to why either competitor should/should not win.​

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'll be voting for Bret "The Hitman" Hart. Personal preference definitely comes into play, but there's a reason for that-- I think he's the better overall professional wrestler.

Both men have headlined the WWF/E during a downturn, neither being on the level of Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan. Comparing success, with these two, isn't cut and dry either way.

To be perfectly honest, I feel Bret is the better of the two, in almost every way. He is certainly the better mat wrestler, no question. He was a master of in-ring psychology, making every move count, or mean something. John Cena isn't nearly as bad in the ring as many fans make him out to be, but he's no Bret Hart. The Hitman had the ability to adapt to opponents, and get the best out of each and every one of them. I don't feel Cena is up there with Bret, in that regard.

I think most people would say Cena is the better mic worker, but Bret wasn't nearly as bad as most today make him out to be. If you remember his heel work in 1996/97, you know what I'm talking about.

Both men have been dominant. I would say Cena has been a bit more dominant, but he didn't have the star power to contend with that Bret did. Cena has a great record, and his pinned major players from his era, like HBK, HHH, Randy Orton, Batista, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Edge, Kurt Angle, and The Big Show.

However, Bret has also taken out HBK and Chris Benoit, not to mention guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Sting, Bill Goldberg, Randy Savage, Kevin Nash/Diesel, Bob Backlund, Vader, Roddy Piper, Lex Luger, Curt Hennig and Yokozuna. In my view, Bret faced tougher competition, and beat each of them at one time or another.

Also, Bret has put on what I feel are better matches. Bret has had absolute, 5-Star classics with his brother Owen, HBK, Steve Austin, Ricky Steamboat, and The British Bulldog. He's also gotten some great matches out of guys like Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and The Undertaker.

I'm not sure how Bret will do in this match, seeing a lot of younger fans are more familiar with his latest run in the WWE. Please, if that's all you know about this guy, do some research, or don't vote at all. John Cena is a big deal, no doubt. But so was Bret Hart.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm a little bit torn here. I like Bret Hart much more than Cena but Cena can be an outright freak in some settings. I'm not really sure on which way I'm going

In a street fight, Cena would maul Bret Hart. Bret Hart isn't a brawler and we've seen Cena do some impressive things in street fight/no holds barred types of settings against all different types of opponents. Bret Hart is really out of his element here and I don't think that there's anything he can throw at Cena that Cena can't handle.

In the other two matches, I'm just not sure. I think either man has a good shot of winning the cage or ladder match but I'm gonna have to think on it for a while.

 

[Uncle Sam]

In a street fight, Cena would maul Bret Hart. Bret Hart isn't a brawler and we've seen Cena do some impressive things in street fight/no holds barred types of settings against all different types of opponents. Bret Hart is really out of his element here and I don't think that there's anything he can throw at Cena that Cena can't handle.

You say that, but you seem to be forgetting one thing. WrestleMania 13. I know what you're thinking: "What does Rocky Maivia defeating The Sultan have to do with anything, Sam!? Your dementia is clearly worsening and I think you should be subject to full-time supervision!"

What I'm actually referencing is Bret Hart's submission match against "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. Not even "Stunning" Steve Austin or "The Ringmaster" Steve Austin. Full-on, best brawler in professional wrestling history Steve Austin. And what did Bret Hart do to him in that match, which may as well have been a street fight? He beat him up so bad that he fell unconscious from blood loss.

Hart couldn't beat Cena in a street fight? Shut the front door!

Edit: Hey, look at that - I'm still sporting a "Vote John Cena" sig.

 

[Vintage Nick]

That is a great point Sam, but I would also like to point out Cena's drive and determination. Let's pedal back to 2009. John Cena vs Randy Orton in an I Quit match for the WWE Championship. Orton handcuffed Cena, viciously beat him across the ribs with a Kendo stick, smashed him against the steel steps and did all sorts of nasty things. But, even after all that, Cena never once said, "I Quit" and in the end managed to break free of the 'cuffs and make Orton quit.

This match should be stunning and could go either way since both men are really damn tough. I'll be abstaining a vote until I see more comments.

 

[LSN80]

Im going with Cena here. While Hart may have been the better wrestler, these match environments are more suited to Cena's brawling style of wrestling.

Cena would be too much for Hart in the street fight. The man has been beaten with a kendo stick, DDT'd on cement, and put through tables. In all three such instances, he got up and won the match. I just don't think that Hart can go with Cena in this typ of environment, and Cena wins the street fight in 16 minutes with the FU.

The cage match is the most interesting of the three matches here. Both men have had relative success in this match, with Cena's most notable win coming over Edge. However, this type f match ios to keep interference out for the most part, and sadly, Hart was the better wrestler. We could very well see a scenario where Hart traps Cena in the sharpshooter for Cena not to tap ou, but to be so weakened that he is able to be pinned or for Hart to escape the cage here.

I have to give the final match, the ladder match, to Cena. Cena and Hart both have experience in this type of matches, and have beat innovators to boot. Hart beat a young HBK in 1992, and Cena beat Edge in a TLC in 2006. But while Hart came in the more experinced competitor gainst HBK , Cena came in the decisive underdog against Edge, in Edge's hometown. He still won. Again, i think tbhe brutality of the match is such that Cena could take a punishment and continue to bounce back against Hart, where I think Cena simply wears Hart out here. Cena's strength will be simply too much for Hart here, and an AA off the ladder at the 54 minute mark puts Hart down for good.

Im going with Cena as for now in this match, but if someone can convincingly make a case for Hart, I may change my mind. As for now, I think the match styles favor Cena overall.

 

[stillboy21]

Cena owns the first match but the next two are really questionable. If you are aloud to pin/submit inside the cage then I would give it to Bret but if you have to escape to win then I'm going to go with Cena again.
But if they go into the third match, well that's just a tough call. Niether are superb in ladder matches and I don't know they're ladder match records off the top of my head.
Bret is practically a cruiserweight which benefits him in a ladder match but John isn't called Super Cena for going down easily. Screw it, AA off the top of the ladder for a Cena win.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Cena would be too much for Hart in the street fight. The man has been beaten with a kendo stick, DDT'd on cement, and put through tables. In all three such instances, he got up and won the match. I just don't think that Hart can go with Cena in this typ of environment, and Cena wins the street fight in 16 minutes with the FU.

While I'm not calling you out, at all, for your opinion, you did say you were open to changing your mind, and maybe you should think more about this.

Bret Hart is completely underrated as a brawler. He beat Diesel in a No Disqualification match at Survivor Series in 1995, for the WWF title. Between November of 1994 (when Nash beat Backlund for the WWF title) and November of 1995, do you know how many matches Diesel lost? Zero. One of the biggest and toughest brawlers the WWE had ever seen, lost in a No D.Q. match to Bret Hart. Not to mention, Nash was about 10 inches taller, and weighed about 75 lbs. more than Cena.

As Sam pointed out earlier, Bret Hart not only took every bit of punishment Steve Austin had to offer in that Submission match at WrestleMania 13, he won. It was a great match, but it was just as much a brawl as it was a technical showcase. Same result came from their first encounter at Survivor Series in 1996. If Bret can slug it out with Steve Austin, and win, there is absolutely no reason to believe he cannot do the same with John Cena.

Again, i think tbhe brutality of the match is such that Cena could take a punishment and continue to bounce back against Hart, where I think Cena simply wears Hart out here. Cena's strength will be simply too much for Hart here, and an AA off the ladder at the 54 minute mark puts Hart down for good.

I don't have much to say about the Ladder stipulation, as I think it could go either way here, but I do take issue with the bolded section. Bret has beaten guys as strong and brutal, or even more so, than Cena. Diesel, The Undertaker, Yokozuna, Vader, and The British Bulldog. Those men are bigger, and stronger than John Cena. Not saying Cena cannot win, but Bret isn't weak. He was 6'-1'', 235 lbs. He was about the same size as Cena, and he wasn't small, not by any stretch.

Also, keep in mind Bret has had past success in tournament situations. He won the 1993 King of the Ring, beating Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, and Bam Bam Bigelow, in the same night. In 1999, Bret won the WCW World Heavyweight Championship in the WCW Mayhem PPV tournament. How did he win that match? He made both Chris Benoit and Sting submit in the Sharpshooter. Sting..and Chris Benoit. That's beyond impressive.

 

[Nate DaMac]

To me, all 3 of the match types are a toss up. Both have won all of them I'm assuming, so I won't be hearing any kind of argument about how one favors the other more because it's all silly. I know Cena has won a TLC match, Hart has won a Ladder match. Cena has won at least one Cage match that I'm aware of and 3 Elimination Chambers, Hart has won at least one Cage Match that I recall. Cena has one at least one Street Fight I remember, Hart as well. So can we not go through this horseshit where we try to say the gimmick suits one rather than the other? It doesn't.

So when you establish that the gimmick is pretty much null, can we just agree that Cena would never lose to Hart? Hart hasn't done anything to show me that he can beat someone as dominant as Cena and Cena has shown me nothing to make me think that a technical wrestler can beat him. Jericho has fallen to him, I expect Hart to do the same.

Vote Cena.

 

[The Holy One]

This would be a classic no doubt. However, I'm going with Cena b/c of personal preference for the most part. I see Cena winning the Street Fight with an AA on a steel chair. Bret wins the Steel Cage by weakening Cena's legs with the Sharpshooter so he has a hard time to climb so Bret escapes first. It'll come down to the Ladder Match which I give to Cena after he AA's Bret through two tables ala Edge at Unforgiven 06.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I have to give it to Bret Hart out of personal preference. Bret Hart's eben in his own fair share of brawling matches but what's really going to wear Cena down is Bret's Hart technical skill. Moves like suplexes, the Sharpshooter in matches such as street fights will wear Cena down. Cena then may not even have srength on the back to use the AA.

Also people may say Cena's strength will be too much for Bret, please. As Champ, Hart faced loads of challenges sch as Undertaker, Yokozuna men who in their prime were just lain mastadons in the sport. I doubt Cena will be enough.

Vote goes to Bret.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

So when you establish that the gimmick is pretty much null, can we just agree that Cena would never lose to Hart? Hart hasn't done anything to show me that he can beat someone as dominant as Cena and Cena has shown me nothing to make me think that a technical wrestler can beat him. Jericho has fallen to him, I expect Hart to do the same.

Vote Cena.

OK this is an asinine arguement. Bret is better than Jericho in terms of in ring skills, kayfabe achievement as well as fan support. The only thing that Jericho is better at than Bret is mic skills and despite that Bret could get very solid reactions when he spoke on the mic both as a face and as a heel. Jericho is really overrated by the IWC because of the fact that he is a selfless wrestler and readily jobs to just about everybody. He is a career upper midcarder while Bret was the face of the company for 3 years from 1993 to 1996. He is not just any technical wrestler, he is the best there is, the best there was and the best there will ever be. In his prime he lost very little, just like Cena.

Sorry but this type of justification is just silly. Bret is way better than Jericho and means a lot more to wrestling history than Jericho has ever meant. Bret can very well defeat Cena in his prime. This guy has defeated Steve Austin at his own game, ie in a hardcore environment. I'm sure he could hold his own against Cena.

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But I agree with Nate when he says that you can take all three match types out of the equation here. Bret has managed himself well in a hardcore environment and holds an unbeaten record there. Cena lost a parking lot brawl match to Eddie Guerrero early in his career and twice more to JBL and RVD and also Edge in a Last Man Standing Match but on the whole he has performed well in this sort of an environment and so I guess they are evenly matched there. If anything the advantage rests with Hart.

Bret is 1-1 in Steel Cage matches having won against his brother Owen and lost against Sid due to interference. Cena lost his only Cage match due to interference so I guess they stand even there as well.

Now we come to the ladder match, a type of match which both guys have won. Bret brought ladder matches to the WWE but that does not really give him any sort of advantage as Cena has performed pretty well in ladder matches.

The thing that the whole match boils down to, in my opinion is stamina and I believe that Bret can outlast Cena. Each fall will go at least 15 minutes and on some occasions even more than that. That means that the match will go on for at least 45-60 minutes. Bret has moves and the skill to do some longterm damage to Cena. Cena can forget about locking the STF on Bret. Bret, as I mentioned before is the best technical wrestler of all time, not to mention the highest achieving one. I think that he will find a way to counter the STF every single time. That leaves Cena with the FU and while that is enough to keep Bret down for a three count, it won't do any long term damage to Bret. I see the first fall going to Cena but the going will get tougher as the match progresses as the Hitman will keep chipping away at Cena's body parts, especially his legs to prevent Cena from climbing the Cage or the ladder.

Vote Bret!!!!

PS: I have not forgotten that Cena has wrestled in an ironman match but that was against Orton and Orton is hardly the technical wizard that Bret is. I have never seen Cena hang out for 40 minutes with a technical guy let alone anyone close to the best technical wrestler of all time.

Bret on the other hand has shown that he has buttloads of stamina as he has competed in long matches and won tournaments all throughout his career. He has also shown that he can dispose brawlers like Cena pretty easily and so he should win the match in my opinion.

 

[Megadeth]

This match would go to the Hitman, Bret Hart. Other's have pointed out the no DQ matches againist Nash and Austin, so I wont really go into that to much. As far as the Cage stip, I am sure most remember the Classic Bret vs Owen cage match, plus Bret also has a victory over Diesel in a cage match as well. As for the ladder match, Bret Hart is actually the one who introduced the ladder match to the WWF, bringing the idea with him from Stampede Wrestling, with a victory over HBK long before the HBK/Razor ladder matches happened. Plus I know he won at least one back in Stampede. Cena does have several impressive wins in the various stipulation matches as well, so it's hard to really say any of the stipulations give either guy any real advantage.
The one thing that I think does give Bret a true edge, is after doing a little bit of research, I found who (I think, I may have missed something) has the best w/l record against John Cena, that man being Kurt Angle. Best I can tell, Kurt has beat John in 5 out of 8 matches. Even making Cena tap out to the ankle lock a couple times. And true, a few of those matches were when Cena first debuted, so even if you want to disregard any matches prior to Cena's first world title run, Angle would still has a 3-1 w/l record in 1 on 1 matches. Angle is a very technical wrestler who quite often gets compared to Bret, so if Kurt typically got the upper hand on Cena, I think a Bret Hart would have no problem doing the same.

 

[The Crock]

First off, let me point out that this is one hell of a match. Now, my vote lies with Bret Hart. People seem to be forgetting what an underrated brawler Hart is, especially since he beat the best brawler of all time in Stone Cold Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13. In their submission match, he pulled out all the stops. He forced Austin to unconsciousness and won the match. I can see him winning the first fall that way too. He obviously won't make Cena tap out, so it would have to be an either unconscious Cena or a pinfall. In the cage match, I can see Hart winning there too. He is certainly experienced in the cage, having faced Yokozuna, Diesel, Jerry Lawler, Shawn Michaels, Isaac Yankem, etc. I could see him giving Cena a very hard time in this fall, probably winning it. All he would have to do is tire out Cena with the Sharpshooter, then exit the cage. Then in the ladder match fall, it would be a very tough contest for Cena. People are dismissing Hart's technical ability, but he could out wrestle Cena and then climb the ladder. There is no reason to NOT vote Hart.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

This match would go to the Hitman, Bret Hart. Other's have pointed out the no DQ matches againist Nash and Austin, so I wont really go into that to much. As far as the Cage stip, I am sure most remember the Classic Bret vs Owen cage match, plus Bret also has a victory over Diesel in a cage match as well. As for the ladder match, Bret Hart is actually the one who introduced the ladder match to the WWF, bringing the idea with him from Stampede Wrestling, with a victory over HBK long before the HBK/Razor ladder matches happened. Plus I know he won at least one back in Stampede. Cena does have several impressive wins in the various stipulation matches as well, so it's hard to really say any of the stipulations give either guy any real advantage.
The one thing that I think does give Bret a true edge, is after doing a little bit of research, I found who (I think, I may have missed something) has the best w/l record against John Cena, that man being Kurt Angle. Best I can tell, Kurt has beat John in 5 out of 8 matches. Even making Cena tap out to the ankle lock a couple times. And true, a few of those matches were when Cena first debuted, so even if you want to disregard any matches prior to Cena's first world title run, Angle would still has a 3-1 w/l record in 1 on 1 matches. Angle is a very technical wrestler who quite often gets compared to Bret, so if Kurt typically got the upper hand on Cena, I think a Bret Hart would have no problem doing the same.

Kurt Angle wrestles nothing like Bret Hart and I must be the only who hasn't and will never see the comparison. You seem to forget that two of Angle's victories came by DQ and a First Blood match which should be thrown out because it doesn't matter as it pertains to this match. Angle with his own referee couldn't even take the title from him. Cena has been weakened by submissions before and still won. I'll give Bret the second fall since these matches always go the distance, but Cena wins.

 

[LSN80]

Bret is 1-1 in Steel Cage matches having won against his brother Owen and lost against Sid due to interference. Cena lost his only Cage match due to interference so I guess they stand even there as well.

Cena lost his only Cage Match.....against Sheamus. The part youre either forgetting or conveiently leavin out is that Cena defeated Edge in a cage match to retain the WWE Title three weeks aftr Unforgiven 2006, and won a cage match just 3 weeks ago against Alex Riley to get him fired as Miz' apprentice. I give the edge to Bret in the Cage match anyway, because I see that as more or less a straight up one on one match as neiter man is likey to be bringing backup here, and Hart is the superior wrestler given that standard. But Cena is 2-1(or 4-1 dependin on how you want to slice it) in Cage Matches, so if you're going by record alone, then Cena is the choice. Both matches he won in the cage were with heay interference as well, so Cena has shown the ability in Cage matches(and many others) to be able to neutralize interference. I still give the edge to Bret in the cage as I stated earlier, but figured this information needed pointed out.

PS: I have not forgotten that Cena has wrestled in an ironman match but that was against Orton and Orton is hardly the technical wizard that Bret is. I have never seen Cena hang out for 40 minutes with a technical guy let alone anyone close to the best technical wrestler of all time.

Did you miss the hour long match that Cena had with HBK on Raw two weeks following Wrestlemania23 in London as well? I think you're severely underestimating Cena's stamina and hs ability to go toe to toe with some great technical wrestlers. I wouldn't put HBK in the same class as Hart in terms of technical wrestling, but he's certainly no slouch. And if anything, his Iron Man Match with Orton was MORE physically demanding then the Ironman match Shawn and Bret had because of the "Anything Goes" stipulation. Not to mention Cena won the match and all, while Bret lost his.

Cena lost a parking lot brawl match to Eddie Guerrero early in his career and twice more to JBL and RVD and also Edge in a Last Man Standing Match but on the whole he has performed well in this sort of an environment and so I guess they are evenly matched there. If anything the advantage rests with Hart.

Suprisingly, the only one of these matches that Cena lost clean was to JBL. He lost he LMS match to Edge only due to Big Show chokeslamming him through a spotlight, which i have a hard time seeing Bret getting up forom either. He took a steel chair from Chavo in his parking lot brawl with Eddy, and RVD had assistance from Edge and Paul Heyman in their Extreme Rules match. He won his other two LMS matches against Batista and Umaga, is 2-0 in "I Quit" matches, and 2-0 in chair matches. Again, with interence thrown out the door as I expect both would wrestle a clean match, Cena has far more experience in matches of this style, and without interferenc, he'ld vitually have a clean record as well.

Nick did a great job of swaying me towards Hart, but Ive realized quite a few things after going through your post. Im stil going with Cena in the street fight, Hart the Cage Match, and Im stuck on the ladder match. Someone truly sell me on this one. As far as I can recall, Hart is 1-0(Michaels in 92) and Cena is 1-0 as well.(Edge in a TLC in 2006). But right now, until convinced otherwise, I'll take Hart's tournament experience over Cena's lack of unless someone shows me otherwise. Nicely done Nick.

 

[LSN80]

Cena lost his only Cage Match.....against Sheamus. The part youre either forgetting or conveiently leavin out is that Cena defeated Edge in a cage match to retain the WWE Title three weeks aftr Unforgiven 2006, and won a cage match just 3 weeks ago against Alex Riley to get him fired as Miz' apprentice. I give the edge to Bret in the Cage match anyway, because I see that as more or less a straight up one on one match as neiter man is likey to be bringing backup here, and Hart is the superior wrestler given that standard. But Cena is 2-1(or 4-1 dependin on how you want to slice it) in Cage Matches, so if you're going by record alone, then Cena is the choice. Both matches he won in the cage were with heay interference as well, so Cena has shown the ability in Cage matches(and many others) to be able to neutralize interference. I still give the edge to Bret in the cage as I stated earlier, but figured this information needed pointed out.



Did you miss the hour long match that Cena had with HBK on Raw two weeks following Wrestlemania23 in London as well? I think you're severely underestimating Cena's stamina and hs ability to go toe to toe with some great technical wrestlers. I wouldn't put HBK in the same class as Hart in terms of technical wrestling, but he's certainly no slouch. And if anything, his Iron Man Match with Orton was MORE physically demanding then the Ironman match Shawn and Bret had because of the "Anything Goes" stipulation. Not to mention Cena won the match and all, while Bret lost his.



Suprisingly, the only one of these matches that Cena lost clean was to JBL. He lost he LMS match to Edge only due to Big Show chokeslamming him through a spotlight, which i have a hard time seeing Bret getting up forom either. He took a steel chair from Chavo in his parking lot brawl with Eddy, and RVD had assistance from Edge and Paul Heyman in their Extreme Rules match. He won his other two LMS matches against Batista and Umaga, is 2-0 in "I Quit" matches, and 2-0 in chair matches. Again, with interence thrown out the door as I expect both would wrestle a clean match, Cena has far more experience in matches of this style, and without interference, he'ld vitually have a clean record as well.

The one thing that I think does give Bret a true edge, is after doing a little bit of research, I found who (I think, I may have missed something) has the best w/l record against John Cena, that man being Kurt Angle. Best I can tell, Kurt has beat John in 5 out of 8 matches. Even making Cena tap out to the ankle lock a couple times. And true, a few of those matches were when Cena first debuted, so even if you want to disregard any matches prior to Cena's first world title run, Angle would still has a 3-1 w/l record in 1 on 1 matches. Angle is a very technical wrestler who quite often gets compared to Bret, so if Kurt typically got the upper hand on Cena, I think a Bret Hart would have no problem doing the same.

Even if Hart and Angle wre smilar wrestlers(which they're not), Angle owned Cena during the half year they truly feuded. The "submission" you referring to that Angle has over Cena via Ankle lock was when Bischoff kicked Cena's hand off the ropes, and ordered the ref to call for the bell. If that's your ideaa of a submission victory, well then. Its about as viable of one as CM Punk's "submission victory" over Undertaker at Breaking Point 2009. Cena was actually 3-2 in 2005, with his only losses being the First Blood Match Lawler referenced, which is irrelevant as he said, and the "phantom sumission" by Angle. Cena won the triple threat submission match with Angle and Masters, the triple threat with Angle and Michaels, and the SS match where Angle brought Daivari as his own ref. Angle couldnt beat Cena without heavy interference, and the comparison to Hart even so is a bad one. I dont think interference would factor in here anyway, making the comparison worse.


Nick did a great job of swaying me towards Hart, but Ive realized quite a few things after going through your post. Im stil going with Cena in the street fight, Hart the Cage Match, and Im stuck on the ladder match. Someone truly sell me on this one. As far as I can recall, Hart is 1-0(Michaels in 92) and Cena is 1-0 as well.(Edge in a TLC in 2006). But right now, until convinced otherwise, I'll take Hart's tournament experience over Cena's lack of unless someone shows me otherwise. Nicely done Nick.

 

[The Underking]

Some of the arguments for Bret are truly just horrible. Everybody likes to spout on and on about the fact that Bret beat Austin at Mania in a No DQ Match. This wasn't Austin who was in the main event this was a Upper Mid Card Austin who had only challenged for the title once in a four man match. Austin also was not yet the brawler we would see later on.

Just a couple months later though Austin did beat Bret in a guess what Street Fight until he refused to let go of the Sharp Shooter and the decision was over ruled to give it to Bret. As for his win over Diesel it was off a small package because Bret couldn't be on his feet long enough for Diesel to hit the Jackknife. John would have no problem lifting him on his shoulders and hitting the Attitude Adjustment.

On the other hand John Cena is just a bad ass in a hardcore enviroment. Look at his matches vs. JBL he's 1-1 in terms of hardcore matches I think but those were to great, brutal matches. Also John is diffrent to say the least in a hardcore setting not a goody two shoes anymore. Proof John Cena Attitude Adjusted Batista through the stage even though he won the match.

John Cena also has a better record then Bret in Steel Cage Matches 2-1 to Brets 1-1. In both those matches he endured interference and won. Cena will win in two straight in my opinion.

Even if they go into the ladder match don't try to bring up that Bret brought it into the WWE. It would have made it's way in anyhow and fact is he only beat Shawn Micheals back in 92. Micheals hadn't won a WWE Title at this point and was far away from his prime.

John Cena beat Edge in a TLC match which is a ladder match on steroids. Edge has been in more ladder matches then anybody else and has won the majority of them. John Cena beat him in his hometown.

And off of Kayfabe John Cena is obviously going to be more important to wrestling by the time he retires. While Bret in 1994-1997 he was the top guy for most of the time. And it shows that during Bret was at the top ratings and PPV Buys were at an all time low. During 2003-2005 it was a bad couple of years in the PPV Buys.

Boom John Cena bursts into the scene and in 2006 and 2007 where John Cena was main eventing PPV's Left and Right the PPV buys were much higher then when Bret was at the top. The Ratings aswell prove it while Bret was captain of the ship ratings were normally at 2.7 when John was during 2006-2011 the ratings were averaging 3.3.

In all three matches John Cena goes over Bret Hart. In terms of drawing John Cena got more. Do the obvious Vote Cena

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

These matches tend to go on for at least 40 mins.. I know Cena has had near hour long match, but bret can doo much more, he would be carrying cena in this match the whole through out, Brets not really the street fighter, but he isn't daft either, and could play the match to his advantage, also the steel cage match, Cena is the brawler, but Bret has won quite a lot of these.. This match doesn't need to go to the ladder match because Bret takes it 2-0 at the 30 min mark..

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

These matches tend to go on for at least 40 mins.. I know Cena has had near hour long match, but bret can doo much more, he would be carrying cena in this match the whole through out, Brets not really the street fighter, but he isn't daft either, and could play the match to his advantage, also the steel cage match, Cena is the brawler, but Bret has won quite a lot of these.. This match doesn't need to go to the ladder match because Bret takes it 2-0 at the 30 min mark..

If you mean Bret could rest longer than 40 minutes in an hour, then he can do a lot more. Both guys would be carrying each other. As I've said before, I'll give Bret the cage match but Cena will take the other two because Cena was more dominant over a longer period of time.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

This is very unpredictable really.

I mean I can see people bringing up the Austin's Baptism in Blood at WM13 to show off Hart's toughness, but the fact of the matter is, Cena wrestles every match as a brwaler so he definitely gets the cake there.

The cage is a real toss up but I can see Cena and Hart's dash to jump the cage with Bret just taking it.

It's the last fall that has me stumped. I mean watching Cena take a bump is awkward and funny,and then him climbing a ladder and staying stable is a once in a blue moon miracle( yes I remember TLC, Edge, Big FU!). So I see Hart and Cena brawling on the top of the ladder and Cena losing his balance and falling after the Hitman rakes Cena's eyes in desperation.

Hitman wins!

 

[Megadeth]

The "submission" you referring to that Angle has over Cena via Ankle lock was when Bischoff kicked Cena's hand off the ropes, and ordered the ref to call for the bell.

Actually I was talking about this:

[YOUTUBE]0PkCR81-EK8[/YOUTUBE]


and again in this triple threat
[YOUTUBE]9duxUiBu5w0[/YOUTUBE]

I see no Eric Bischoff or screw job in either of these, just John Cena tapping out.

And by the way, he also tapped out to this:

[YOUTUBE]LcMArePIbo8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Actually I was talking about this:

[YOUTUBE]0PkCR81-EK8[/YOUTUBE]


and again in this triple threat
[YOUTUBE]9duxUiBu5w0[/YOUTUBE]

I see no Eric Bischoff or screw job in either of these, just John Cena tapping out.

And by the way, he also tapped out to this:

[YOUTUBE]LcMArePIbo8[/YOUTUBE]

You referring to a Cena who lost half his matches as a midcarder. He hasn't been close to submitting to anybody since he became a main eventer. Cena has incredible upper body strength so I don't see him submitting to the Sharpshooter or passing out from it.

 

[Nate DaMac]

OK this is an asinine arguement. Bret is better than Jericho in terms of in ring skills, kayfabe achievement as well as fan support. The only thing that Jericho is better at than Bret is mic skills and despite that Bret could get very solid reactions when he spoke on the mic both as a face and as a heel. Jericho is really overrated by the IWC because of the fact that he is a selfless wrestler and readily jobs to just about everybody. He is a career upper midcarder while Bret was the face of the company for 3 years from 1993 to 1996. He is not just any technical wrestler, he is the best there is, the best there was and the best there will ever be. In his prime he lost very little, just like Cena.

Sorry but this type of justification is just silly. Bret is way better than Jericho and means a lot more to wrestling history than Jericho has ever meant. Bret can very well defeat Cena in his prime. This guy has defeated Steve Austin at his own game, ie in a hardcore environment. I'm sure he could hold his own against Cena.

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Yeah bud, I was just stating that he beat Jericho, in no way was I trying to use that as a way to justify him going over Hart, those 2 aren't in the same league.

But I agree with Nate when he says that you can take all three match types out of the equation here. Bret has managed himself well in a hardcore environment and holds an unbeaten record there. Cena lost a parking lot brawl match to Eddie Guerrero early in his career and twice more to JBL and RVD and also Edge in a Last Man Standing Match but on the whole he has performed well in this sort of an environment and so I guess they are evenly matched there. If anything the advantage rests with Hart.

I didn't really bother looking up the street fight part because I figure Cena has done fairly well in that aspect, but I guess he wasn't all that great. But I would like to point out that he did beat Umaga in a street fight, so he hasn't lost them all.

Bret is 1-1 in Steel Cage matches having won against his brother Owen and lost against Sid due to interference. Cena lost his only Cage match due to interference so I guess they stand even there as well.

Uh, no. Cena has also beaten Edge and Alex Riley in Cage matches, so he hasn't lost his only one. Edge>>>Owen Hart. I give the advantage to Cena.

Now we come to the ladder match, a type of match which both guys have won. Bret brought ladder matches to the WWE but that does not really give him any sort of advantage as Cena has performed pretty well in ladder matches.

So yeah, like I said, gimmick is irrelevant.

The thing that the whole match boils down to, in my opinion is stamina and I believe that Bret can outlast Cena. Each fall will go at least 15 minutes and on some occasions even more than that. That means that the match will go on for at least 45-60 minutes.

Wait, have I woken up in a world where anyone in modern wrestling has more endurance or Stamina than John Cena? What's going on here? Oh wait, nothing has changed? Then yeah, stamina still goes in Cena's favor.

Bret has moves and the skill to do some longterm damage to Cena. Cena can forget about locking the STF on Bret. Bret, as I mentioned before is the best technical wrestler of all time, not to mention the highest achieving one. I think that he will find a way to counter the STF every single time.

I don't care how many moves Hart knows, There's very few that can put Cena down and I've never seen any from Hart that are capable. He isn't making him tap out, that's fact. The only way to counter the STF is by getting to the ropes or with strength. Hart would only manage to get to the ropes so many times before he is just unable to use his strngth anymore. He may not tap out, but he sure isn't going to counter it every time.

That leaves Cena with the FU and while that is enough to keep Bret down for a three count, it won't do any long term damage to Bret. I see the first fall going to Cena but the going will get tougher as the match progresses as the Hitman will keep chipping away at Cena's body parts, especially his legs to prevent Cena from climbing the Cage or the ladder.

Vote Bret!!!!

Since when is Hart Superman? Why is it that Hart would have no trouble doing the things that virtually any wrestler in the WWE now can rarely do? He can't. Hart is of another breed. He was the top guy from 93-96 sure, but that brings up the age old question; If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a noise? Sure Cena's leading the brand where it isn't quite as popular as it was during the Attitude Era, but it's still twice as popular as when Hart was at the top.

PS: I have not forgotten that Cena has wrestled in an ironman match but that was against Orton and Orton is hardly the technical wizard that Bret is. I have never seen Cena hang out for 40 minutes with a technical guy let alone anyone close to the best technical wrestler of all time.

Bret on the other hand has shown that he has buttloads of stamina as he has competed in long matches and won tournaments all throughout his career. He has also shown that he can dispose brawlers like Cena pretty easily and so he should win the match in my opinion.

What exactly does being a technical wizard have to do with being in an Iron Man Match? If he was so tailor made for that kind of environment, why did he LOSE the only one he was in? Meanwhile Cena, a guy who bases his offense on power sure, has beaten Orton who is arguably the most methodical wrestler in the E today. At least that's what they tell us to try to explain why his matches are so fucking boring.

Once again, you've stated nothing of relevance to sway Hart over Cena, and Cena is still the better man.

Vote Cena.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Cena has incredible upper body strength so I don't see him submitting to the Sharpshooter

What does upper body strength have to do with submitting to the Sharpshooter? I don't know how upper body strength plays into this more than any other form of strength, but he's beaten plenty of guys who are as strong, or stronger than Cena with that same move.

or passing out from it.

If Steve Austin passed out, after the way he was built up in that match, it's definitely possible to see John Cena doing the same.

Cena has also beaten Edge and Alex Riley in Cage matches, so he hasn't lost his only one. Edge>>>Owen Hart. I give the advantage to Cena.

Not only has Bret taken down Owen inside of a Steel Cage, he's beaten Diesel--twice. Diesel, in early 1996, was just as big of deal as Edge is right now.

Wait, have I woken up in a world where anyone in modern wrestling has more endurance or Stamina than John Cena? What's going on here? Oh wait, nothing has changed? Then yeah, stamina still goes in Cena's favor.

Stamina is equal, if anything. Both have had Iron Man matches, and both have had lengthy runs in the Royal Rumble. Also, Bret won the King of the Ring, and a tournament for the WCW title, where he beat Sting and Chris Benoit in the same night. If Bret doesn't have the advantage in stamina, it's at least equal.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a noise? Sure Cena's leading the brand where it isn't quite as popular as it was during the Attitude Era, but it's still twice as popular as when Hart was at the top.

Twice the draw? That's a big stretch. Cena has drawn better numbers, but nowhere near twice as much as Bret. Not to mention WWE has had absolutely no real competition since Cena took over as face of the WWE.

Once again, you've stated nothing of relevance to sway Hart over Cena, and Cena is still the better man.

Maybe he hasn't, but I have