Hogan Region, Toronto Subregion, First Round: (14) Stan Hansen vs. (19) Big Daddy

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the Hogan Region, Toronto Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

#14. Stan Hansen

Vs.

#19. Big Daddy

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Stan Hansen was awesome. He put on more great matches than I can count.

Big Daddy fucking sucked. He put on 0.0 good matches.

Vote Hansen.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Stan Hansen is someone I've never really been 100% what to make of. He's got one hell of a personality and is by all accounts legitimately tough and revered for said toughness, but is also a crazy, reckless madman who couldn't see any further than three feet in front of him. Even his greatest legacy in the United States is that he broke Bruno's neck by accident.

Big Daddy by contrast is the a-number-one draw in British wrestling history. We over on this side of the Atlantic often go on about how, if you were to ask some random punters (I.E. the general populace) to name a wrestler, depending on their age, they would say one of the following:

- The Rock - probably more so for his popularity and fame outside of wrestling
- Hulk Hogan
- Big Daddy

That's how much of an 'inedible mark on pop culture', a phrase WWE loves to use, Big Daddy had on the British wrestling scene. When his popularity waned, so did British wrestling's. He supported an entire industry, rightly or wrongly, on his back. He was the single biggest draw in the market and at his peak, drew the highest viewing figures in World of Sports history and higher than most of whatever its competitors put opposite it.

The Lariat's a legend for being the bad guy, for being the guy who hurts people, for being rough and ready. Big Daddy's the ultimate babyface who never loses, certainly not against villains of this ilk anyway. Hansen's finisher is to be feared and respected, but it was in Japan where it was unbeatable. We're in Toronto, Canada. Part of the Commonwealth, where the Queen is still the Queen and where Big Daddy will be cheered and spurred on to a victory over the detestable, notorious outlaw.

Hansen's not an idiot in a business sense either. See his match versus Hulk Hogan in the main event of Wrestling Summit where he bloodies and batters Hogan but ultimately succumbs to the good guy and bigger draw. Daddy is the bigger draw and Hansen, being the time tested veteran that he is will surely do the honourable thing. And so should you:

Vote for the man named Shirley. Vote for Big Daddy.

 

[Bernkastel]

Big Daddy was British wrestling. Period. He's synonymous with it. His greatest weakness in a tournament like this one is his lack of impact outside of his tiny Isle of a country. Hansen was an international superstar. He was famous in the States [AWA and WWE] and an icon in Japan. Easily one of the most popular gaijin [foreign] wrestlers in the country. If you compare the sheer scale of Hansen's popularity in Japan to Shirley Crabtree's in England, then Daddy wins. Try as I might, I cannot find any evidence of Emperor Akihito being a personal fan of Hansen. Both Queen Elizabeth and prime minister Margret Thatcher were fans of Big Daddy. That was the extent of his influence there. The common wrestling fan in Japan would know Stan Hansen. The common man in England would know Big Daddy. Even if they weren't wrestling fans.

The way I look at this match, I see a performer like Big Daddy who ignited and created a financial hotbed for wrestling in England that lasted for several years. Hansen was a huge star in Japan, but didn't have quite the cultural reach. If this was Daddy vs Inoki or Hogan I could exploit Daddy's lack of international impact, but I don't think it matters against a performer like Hansen.

Vote Big Daddy.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Stan Hansen was awesome. He put on more great matches than I can count.

Big Daddy fucking sucked. He put on 0.0 good matches.

Vote Hansen.

Hahaha!

It amazes me that Big Daddy was such a star in UK wrestling, i have NEVER seen anything that he did that was in the slightest bit entertaining. Fat and awful.

Hansen to smash Shirley's head off with a lariat to advance

 

[enviousdominous]

Big Daddy's the ultimate babyface who never loses, certainly not against villains of this ilk anyway.

That's weird, I know of two occasions where Big Daddy lost clean to Kendo Nagasaki, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that those are the only two matches they ever fought. Albeit; Kendo snuck those wins after having his ass kicked for 90% of the match, but it didn't take much beyond knocking Big Daddy onto his back to score a pinfall.

Stan Hansen has beaten (and lost to) the likes of Jumbo Tsuruta, Giant Baba and Bob Backlund. Big Daddy fought the same usual bunch of World of Sport mainstays like Scrubber Daly and Giant Haystacks, and those matches were ALWAYS so damn monotonous that they could make The Great Khali look exciting.

If you put Big Daddy in the ring with Stan Hansen, Stan would probably go off script pretty damn quickly and split Daddy's forehead open with his fist. Meanwhile Big Daddy would be flopping around, attempting something that vaguely looks like offense until his own lack of coordination caused him to fall off of his feet.

Big Daddy is a big ole' adorable legend. Stan Hansen is a brawler who will make you earn whatever liberties you might try to take in the ring. This match is where Stan puts the rest of the tournament on notice that he's taking no prisoners.

Vote Stan Hansen.

 

[enviousdominous]

His greatest weakness in a tournament like this one is his lack of impact outside of his tiny Isle of a country.

That, and the fact that Big Daddy's losses to Kendo Nagasaki were early departures from tournaments. One loss was a first round loss, to a guy who wasn't noteworthy enough to make it into this tournament.

Big Daddy's greatest weakness in a tournament like this is that he actually has to fight people who've taken on much more mean and agile big men and won, not the least capable of which being Stan Hansen.

 

[stingray11214]

Big Daddy was a household name in his own home country. Period. Stan Hansen was votes the most respected gaijin in Puroresu history. Couple that with the AWA strap, and Big Daddy becomes Little Boy quite quickly. Vote the Bad Man from Borger, Texas, Stan Hansen.

 

[nightmare]

Big Daddy has earned my respect over the years thanks to this tourney. He was a damn charismatic motherfucker who gained a huge following and that is a big part of wrestling. He is quite a bit shit in the ring though. Like a sentient giant bag of potatoes.


Stan Hansen is one nasty man who will probably knock Big Daddy on his ass within the first few minutes. A bit of a brawl and two wobbly legs later... Big Daddy meets a huge lariat and that is all she wrote.

 

[Tastycles]

I have a new found respect for Stan Hansen this year, and was looking forward to voting for him for literally the first time ever. Unfortunately, I can't do that here. If we are to include the huge names from other wrestling markets in here at all, then the very biggest names have to go over the moderately successful. If this tournament is about North American and Japanese success only, then ok, but if Big Daddy is in, then he has to win here.

 

[nightmare]

Why? He still only was big in one area & that area ultimately is down on the hierarchical list behind N.A. & Japan. Hansen blasted people in those two big markets and also a huge draw in Puerto Rico.

Big deal in one place does not outweigh big deal everywhere you went.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

That's weird, I know of two occasions where Big Daddy lost clean to Kendo Nagasaki, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that those are the only two matches they ever fought. Albeit; Kendo snuck those wins after having his ass kicked for 90% of the match, but it didn't take much beyond knocking Big Daddy onto his back to score a pinfall.

It's called hyperbole. People say Hogan never lost or that Warrior never lost or Goldberg etc... but they did, of course they did. The fact remains Big Daddy won the vast majority of his matches, and the only losses you present here are versus a cunning, secretive and slippery heel rather than a loud southern brawler.

If you put Big Daddy in the ring with Stan Hansen, Stan would probably go off script pretty damn quickly and split Daddy's forehead open with his fist. Meanwhile Big Daddy would be flopping around, attempting something that vaguely looks like offense until his own lack of coordination caused him to fall off of his feet.

So what you're saying is that Hansen would go into business for himself and likely get black balled from the rest of the tournament for doing so? Huh, that seems strange, I know Hansen was reckless and frankly out of his mind, but unlike say his long term comrade in arms Bruiser Brody, I don't recall Hansen quite abusing someone in this same way. He always seemed fairly game to do business.

Why? He still only was big in one area & that area ultimately is down on the hierarchical list behind N.A. & Japan. Hansen blasted people in those two big markets and also a huge draw in Puerto Rico.

Big deal in one place does not outweigh big deal everywhere you went.

Stan Hansen isn't exactly what I'd call a big deal in the United States. His biggest business was versus Bruno and that's about it. Bruno was the key to that. The fans didn't want to see Hansen get his ass handed to him, they wanted to see Bruno hand him his ass. There's a difference. He was AWA World Champion well after their peak and was United States Champ in WCW in the early 90s, something Jim Duggan also accomplished. He's done a lot, no doubt, but so has say, Matt Hardy. Doesn't mean he should go over.

Hansen wasn't this revered draw that most portray him as. He was an excellent villain who would play his role perfectly only to eventually be defeated by the conquering hero. Bruno did it, the AJPW natives did it, Hogan did it and even Luger did it in reclaiming his United States title. Big Daddy would do it too. He was a sizable draw, but to compare the level of attraction he could draw versus the business that Daddy could bring is, well it's laughable frankly.

 

[enviousdominous]

It's called hyperbole. People say Hogan never lost or that Warrior never lost or Goldberg etc... but they did, of course they did. The fact remains Big Daddy won the vast majority of his matches, and the only losses you present here are versus a cunning, secretive and slippery heel rather than a loud southern brawler.

I'm also a huge Kendo Nagasaki fan, but yeah, he's worlds apart from Stan Hansen. Mainly because Stan would have more than likely annihilated Kendo if they ever fought. I don't see Big Daddy being able to use his usual ring-work to defend himself against Stan Hansen.

I get that Big Daddy had the celebrity status of any of the names you've mentioned, but he was never tested like they were. Big Daddy was featured in the Sunday comics, so of course you'd cheer for him when he had that negative five-star match against Giant Haytacks. Stan Hansen left lasting impressions on the fans when he'd dominate big names like Giant Baba and Vader.

So what you're saying is that Hansen would go into business for himself and likely get black balled from the rest of the tournament for doing so? Huh, that seems strange, I know Hansen was reckless and frankly out of his mind, but unlike say his long term comrade in arms Bruiser Brody, I don't recall Hansen quite abusing someone in this same way. He always seemed fairly game to do business.

I know that I'd be fooling myself if I pretended like it was my place to lecture you, so rest assured I'm just making the following point so that you're aware of what I'm aware of. Do you remember when Stan and Vader has a small miscommunication prior to their most memorable match in Japan? Something like Stan was wildly swinging his bull rope around and the bell on the end of it thwacked Vader in the head, inspiring Vader to potato Stan for which Stan had no idea of why Vader did that? Vader almost lost an eye during that match.

Stan had a chip on his shoulder, and prior to his matches he would put himself into a mental state where you had to be a tough son of a bitch or a prowrestling mainstay to be able to beat him.

I'll give you that Stan swallowed his pride for his match with Hogan, but I'm going to need more convincing to look at Big Daddy as another version of Hogan. Hogan is often mocked for having a leg drop as a finisher, if Big Daddy attempted a leg drop he would never walk again.

Stan Hansen isn't exactly what I'd call a big deal in the United States. His biggest business was versus Bruno and that's about it. Bruno was the key to that. The fans didn't want to see Hansen get his ass handed to him, they wanted to see Bruno hand him his ass. There's a difference. He was AWA World Champion well after their peak and was United States Champ in WCW in the early 90s, something Jim Duggan also accomplished. He's done a lot, no doubt, but so has say, Matt Hardy. Doesn't mean he should go over.

I completely agree that being a top heel shouldn't be a free ticket to the second round, but we're talking about Big Daddy here. Stan Hansen had a match with Bruno Sammartino that everyone from that era remembers, and Big Daddy had a match with Big Bruno Elrington that nobody remembers.

I feel like you're trying to convince me that the most popular wrestler in an obscure indy league deserves to beat one of the most popular wresters in the world. World of Sport was at best a carnival side show. Stan Hansen spent his career mixing it up with the greatest from around the world, and Big Daddy wouldn't have lasted a minute anywhere else.

Hansen wasn't this revered draw that most portray him as. He was an excellent villain who would play his role perfectly only to eventually be defeated by the conquering hero. Bruno did it, the AJPW natives did it, Hogan did it and even Luger did it in reclaiming his United States title. Big Daddy would do it too. He was a sizable draw, but to compare the level of attraction he could draw versus the business that Daddy could bring is, well it's laughable frankly.

You want to talk laughable? Imagine Big Daddy in a match with or against any of the people you've cited as examples of why Stan would lose because he's the bad guy. I honestly think it would look pretty fucking funny to see Hogan, Bruno or Luger torture themselves trying to make a match against or teamed up with Big Daddy look even slightly decent. On the flip side, Stan would easily destroy any of Big Daddy's usual mix of foils.

 

[justtxyank]

The ignorance that surrounds Stan Hansen is stunning really.

Let me debunk some Hansen myths.

1) Safety:
-For someone the internet is so convinced was unsafe, basically every promoter in the world put their most important people in the ring with him. AWA put Rick Martel in there, WCW put Luger, AJPW put all of the Pillars in there with him PLUS Baba, etc., WWF put Bruno in there (the one that got hurt IN THE 70s!), the list goes on. When Terry Gordy bowed out of a HUGE match with Hogan in Japan, Hogan, notorious for wanting to work pillow soft, accepted Hansen as the fill in. He worked stiff yes, but he was a smart worker as well and the safety thing is totally made up.

2) Being a draw outside of the United States:
-I know it's hard for people to believe this now, but there was a time when being a draw in the United States didn't pay what it paid to be big in Japan. Brody and Hansen were two of the highest paid wrestlers in the WORLD, outclassing basically every but Hogan through the 80s. Hansen was extremely loyal to Baba for taking care of him and Brody. He wouldn't do anything to mess that up, but as a draw, he did HUGE money for Japan.
-Hansen wasn't just a gaijin heel in All Japan, he was top of the card for a decade. He wasn't some "monster of the week" for someone to slay, he dominated. He carried the Triple Crown, beat the snot out of the Three Pillars and spent years as the guy those people couldn't conquer. He was for AJPW what Taker was to WWF. The biggest, meanest, baddest dog in the yard that was involved at the top of every program.
-Hansen didn't go US full time because at the top of AJPW he was paid more than any single promoter could pay in the United States. He was making more than the vast majority of guys in the states! It was a different era. He would accept runs in the states as long as they didn't jeopardize his ability to be on the big cards in Japan and when ever he did come to the States he was rightly treated as a big freaking deal. The only reason he didn't work a program in WWF, say to job to Hogan, is Vince wanted control of schedules. Was never going to make sense for Hansen to take a paycut, walk away from Japan and go job to Hogan.

Stan Hansen was a monster. He was a TREMENDOUS worker who worked marathons with guys like Kawada, Misawa, Kobashi and could look like the better guy. He had insane stamina for a man his size, working deep at a crazy pace. He could also work insane sprints. The level of violence he could demonstrate in the ring and the speed and fury he could keep up was unprecedented.

Hansen was on billboards and had mainstream advertisements in Japan. The dude is an absolute legend, was beloved by the audiences and got over everywhere he went. He knocks the poop out of Big Daddy and should be a favorite in the tournament if people would go fully immerse themselves in his history.

 

[nightmare]

If this was like match 3 or something equal to close a show/end a feud, then its Easy Easy.

It isnt & the southern heel would whip the visiting foreigner in a first meeting. Much like the Lawler/Joe fight would go & for similar reasons. Daddy has nothing to stop Hansen & Hansen hates glitter.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I get that Big Daddy had the celebrity status of any of the names you've mentioned, but he was never tested like they were. Big Daddy was featured in the Sunday comics, so of course you'd cheer for him when he had that negative five-star match against Giant Haytacks. Stan Hansen left lasting impressions on the fans when he'd dominate big names like Giant Baba and Vader.

Match quality isn't the point, or more appropriately not the only point. Ability to draw, relevance to this industry, historical importance. All are fields where Daddy's legacy is greater than Hansen's.

I know that I'd be fooling myself if I pretended like it was my place to lecture you, so rest assured I'm just making the following point so that you're aware of what I'm aware of. Do you remember when Stan and Vader has a small miscommunication prior to their most memorable match in Japan? Something like Stan was wildly swinging his bull rope around and the bell on the end of it thwacked Vader in the head, inspiring Vader to potato Stan for which Stan had no idea of why Vader did that? Vader almost lost an eye during that match.

Stan had a chip on his shoulder, and prior to his matches he would put himself into a mental state where you had to be a tough son of a bitch or a prowrestling mainstay to be able to beat him.

I'll give you that Stan swallowed his pride for his match with Hogan, but I'm going to need more convincing to look at Big Daddy as another version of Hogan. Hogan is often mocked for having a leg drop as a finisher, if Big Daddy attempted a leg drop he would never walk again.

Daddy isn't going to play the Vader game though, is he? Vader's a tough rough and ready type much like Hansen himself. Daddy's, by your own account, a softy. He'd get the hell out of dodge, but that's all beside the point. This isn't a legit fight. It's a work. Hansen hitting Vader was an accident. If he hits Daddy by accident, the match will get thrown out. Hansen might go into business for himself or what have you afterward, but he'd be DQ'd, thrown out.

I completely agree that being a top heel shouldn't be a free ticket to the second round, but we're talking about Big Daddy here. Stan Hansen had a match with Bruno Sammartino that everyone from that era remembers, and Big Daddy had a match with Big Bruno Elrington that nobody remembers.

Of course I get your point, I don't think anyone is arguing that Stan Hansen is a much superior in-ring talent. The point is he's not the big star in the same way Daddy was. Daddy's popularity sparked the biggest wrestling boom the UK (probably the fourth biggest wrestling market outside of North America, Mexico and Japan) has ever seen and that has never been replicated after his peak. Hansen was a big deal and a legendary villain but he never supported the weight of an industry like Daddy did.

I feel like you're trying to convince me that the most popular wrestler in an obscure indy league deserves to beat one of the most popular wresters in the world. World of Sport was at best a carnival side show. Stan Hansen spent his career mixing it up with the greatest from around the world, and Big Daddy wouldn't have lasted a minute anywhere else.

See this is simply not true. World of Sport was a mainstream product. It was designed for the masses as a convenient way of showcasing all sports, and the wrestling aspect was the most viewed and best remembered aspect of it (aside from, darts maybe). There was nothing indy about it. Carny perhaps, but the fact it was funded by the biggest advertisement supported broadcaster in the UK means there isn't anything indy about it.

You want to talk laughable? Imagine Big Daddy in a match with or against any of the people you've cited as examples of why Stan would lose because he's the bad guy. I honestly think it would look pretty fucking funny to see Hogan, Bruno or Luger torture themselves trying to make a match against or teamed up with Big Daddy look even slightly decent. On the flip side, Stan would easily destroy any of Big Daddy's usual mix of foils.

This isn't a straight fight. I get it, Hansen's the toughest, he's the great cowboy, all that. Daddy's a clown, a jolly giant. But it's a work. The whole point is to bump and make your opponent look good. Hansen might get annoyed because Daddy isn't his caliber of opponent, but if he takes it too far and starts potatoing him, he'll get DQ'd. This isn't Japan or the Deep South, if Hansen hits him with a bullrope, he gets DQ'd. If he spits tobacco at him, that's no different to the mist(s), he'll get DQ'd. Hell, if he uses closed fists for a prolonged period, he gets DQ'd.

Daddy was a mega-star in his market, Hansen was a big deal, but nothing is going to collapse without him at the helm.