Hogan As A Worker

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by RIPbossman, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. RIPbossman

    RIPbossman Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    22
    What are your thoughts on Hulk Hogan as a worker?

    He was technically sound in Japan, but he did not wrestle like that for over 90 percent of his career. However, I feel he was an entertaining worker from 1984 through 1992. He didn't do many wrestling moves, but he normally managed to put on a good show.

    He always had very animated facial expressions, whether he was intense, in pain, angry, tired or whatever.Aside from his Hulking up routine,, he sold convincingly for his opponents.

    And something he doesn't get much credit for is little extra things he added to his matches to add more entertainment to them. Examples are:

    -Putting on Savages sunglasses during a match to mock him

    - Bouncing his opponent's head off all 4 top turnbuckles in succession.

    - Having Sgt. Slaughter place the Iraq flag over him before a pin fall attempt, then tearing the flag apart

    - Attempting to bodyslam a 400 lb plus opponent, fail, and hit it successfully later on so it meant more

    -Motioning to the crowd that he would take off someone's mask.

    - Mocking The Genius's dancing.

    -Chasing the Honky Tank Man around the ring with his guitar.

    And so on. Hogan usually managed to put on a good show even if he didn't want to do much actual wrestling. As a heel in WCW, he was lazy and broken down, so by then he really was a bad worker.
    .
     
    #1 RIPbossman, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  2. Bernard de Hattrix

    Bernard de Hattrix Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    I'll give Hogan one thing. The man could flex his muscles and cup his hand to his ear like no one's business. But as a worker, he was a leg up from having the athletic ability of a turtle in intensive care. Which means that he sucked, to put it mildly. If you saw one Hogan match, you saw every Hogan match. I'm sorry, that is not the mark of a great worker. It is the mark of a wrestler who has established a bare minimum of himself to physically invest because he knows fans will let him slide. Which is fine. The guy obviously preserved his body with his over-the-top predictability. Characterize him as an incredible box office star and an intelligent businessman if you want, but don't try to convince me he could work a lick.
     
  3. FromGlasgowScotland

    FromGlasgowScotland Dark Match Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    12
    I would guess some opinions differ on the factors of what a good worker is, To me a good worker is someone who entertained me, A match that I enjoyed watching with a great storyline and was believable to me, Not someone who does 2000 random moves per match with no meaning or reason just one after another, Dozens of false finishes and moves like an inverted springboard triple somersault to me that's more of an acrobatic display kind of matches Dave Meltzer is a fan of for example. I'm not insulting those who does enjoy those matches its just not for me.
    as far as I know he never injured anyone in his entire career, He had such longevity and been in so many high profile matches for someone who had such horrific wrestling skills.
    Not every match was the same they had guys like Dynamite Kid and Ricky Steamboat for the longer fast paced matches while Hogan was the main event almost unbeatable American super hero type character so to me Hogan played his role perfectly which makes him a great worker, In my opinion there is no superior wrestler ever skills wise than the Dynamite Kid but even he couldn't have believably played a character similar to Hogan.
     
    #3 FromGlasgowScotland, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    Brownmut likes this.
  4. Goldie

    Goldie Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    37
    Hogan was more about spectacle and showmanship than working ability (as we all know).
    His matches with another subpar workers (typically big men on the 80s roster) were painful to watch .... when he worked with a super worker like Randy Savage- his match quality went up a huge notch.
    Then again he could still surprise us...his WM6 match vs Warrior (another guy with a million dollar physique but could barley wrestle a lick) exceeded expectations and was actually pretty decent.
    His heel NWO matches were full of gimmicks - but as alluded to earlier- he was broken down.

    However Hogans main asset was getting people to want to pay to watch him- despite the lack of match quality.
    No one could work a crowd like him- and he could hold their emotions in the palm of his hands.
     
    tdmoon and Bernard de Hattrix like this.
  5. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93
    most of you don't really seem to know how wrestling works... Hogan is one of the greatest workers of all time... its all about working THE CROWD... its not a true competition.... its about getting the fans invested in your match and Hogan did that better than ANYbody... why was HBK, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit such middling champions? Because they focused too much on their in ring ability which wast GREAT but that's not the point of professional wrestling, the point is to entertain and nobody did that better than Hulk except for Austin or Rock. Actually, even when Rock and Hogan had a match it was by far the best on that Wrestlmania card while the match between the two "technicians" HHH vs Y2J was mediocre at best, nobody takes about anything from that card other than Hogan vs Rock almost 20 years later and there's a reason for that...
     
    Brownmut likes this.
  6. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    253
    I have seen the older matches Hogan had in the WWE Network especially in the AWA and his earlier matches (let's say matches before the late 80's).

    I did notice there is a big difference in his style between those matches and everything in the 80's and after. In the latter Hogan is portrayed more as a superhero with his antics and the way he rally's back for a win.
    His earlier matches, even in the WWE during the middle of the 80's, Hogan was potrayed more as an 80's action star similar to Arnold Schwarzenegger in his movies. So yes Hogan is big and strong and his moveset was still limited but Hogan's matches felt more real and organic during that time.
     
  7. HBKperfect23

    HBKperfect23 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    72
    If you want to see Hogan work, watch his matches in Japan. I remember as kid, watching one of the Hulkamania tapes where he faced Stan Hansen in Japan. I had no idea what work rate or in ring style was at that time but I knew I saw a very different Hogan. Stellar match.

    Also Hogan/Warrior at WM6 was a very good match. I've ever they planned it out move for move and they had a lot of outside help with constructing it. I don't know how much of that is true but I did enjoy the match.
     
  8. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    312
    The thing with hogan is that he adapted his in ring for the time period, kinda like what Steve austin did during the attitude era. During the 80's if you had a over the top personality, you could make a ton of money anywhere without having to do too much as far as in ring was concern. Just do a couple of move and play to the crowd and fans will eat it up and you will be the biggest star in wrestling. You look at Hogan's run in the AWA before joining WWF, It was pretty much the same stick, clothelines, punches, bodyslam, big boot, legdrop, but the fans eat this shit up as it wasn't as much about the in ring back then as it is today and Hogan knew that and ran with it for most of his career. Because of that, he was probably one of the best workers of his era because he knew what worked and what didn'T work. If he would have been this big scientific wrestlers, fans would have turn on him because that not what they wanted out of him.

    That's why he was able to have the long career that he had and his still remembered to this day, because as a worker, he used is head and gave the fans what they wanted out of him instead of going all out and showing what he could do in the ring.
     
    pipebomber likes this.
  9. bringitback

    bringitback Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    26
    It has been mentioned already, but the misunderstanding of what a good worker actually is lingers on through the responses to this post. You all seem to be mistaking the term “worker” with “workhorse”. Hulk Hogan is the single greatest worker of all time. The term comes from the ability to work the crowd, to entertain and tell a story through actions in the ring, selling, and knowing exactly what to do to illicit the desired reaction at the precise moment that reaction is needed.

    I’d even go so far as to say that his in-ring heel work in WCW was and is underrated.
     
    ShinobiMusashi and relentless1 like this.
  10. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93
    oh my GOD, Hollywoods heel work in 97 and 98 was unparalleled, it was Flair level heinous and he was so entertaining as a chickenshit heel that still had the dominance factor going fo him. Just watch him face Goldberg in July 1998 for a good reference
     
  11. Bernard de Hattrix

    Bernard de Hattrix Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    The notion that the term "workrate" was originally conceived to describe how a wrestler "works" a crowd is complete and utter bunk, and one of the most stubborn misconceptions in wrestling. The word was originally used not in wrestling, but in ball-handling games such as rugby, soccer, etc. It describes the amount of effort a team puts into winning a game. Effort in this connotation relates specifically to athletic ability, with no emphasis in the term placed on how excited a crowd is AT ALL.

    Workrate, as a term, was later adapted for use in wrestling by Dave Meltzer when he started the Wrestling Observer Newsletter during the early-80s. Meltzer's star rating system originally defined workrate as the amount of time in a match devoted to action, rather than rest holds. Action, in Meltzer's definition, was the quality of athleticism on display in a match. By that definition, the mark of a good worker is someone who can bring an element of athleticism to a match. Not someone who cups his hand to his ear. Not someone who flexes his muscles ad nauseam. A well-worked match is a match between two great athletes, not a stinker between two main event level wrestlers who can hardly stand upright without falling over.

    You Hogan enthusiasts can rant and rail all you want, but I have just outlined the original usage of the term "workrate." It's meaning was only perverted as the internet evolved and you had legions of Sid Vicious fans desperately clutching at straws in an effort to justify his main event tenure.
     
  12. The Decrypter

    The Decrypter trollface.jpg

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    8
    Hogan literally has 1 move. People like John Cena know at least 10 moves realistically yet the IWC berates him for no reason. Hogan literally knows, 1 move. I dont even remember the guy doing a suplex. Hes a bad worker that looks good from his opponents.
     
  13. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    312
    First of all, Workrate can be anything you want it to be. The real definition of the word workrate is how well you do your job and how much you give to yourself to make sure you do your work right. Fans that thing that workrate is just about athleticism doesn't know what wrestling truly is and hasn't follow wrestling past the attitude era.

    You look at a ric flair match for as a example, those classic that Flair had with steamboat relaid a lot on rest hold because those rest holds told a story. the base of wrestling never was about athleticism, is always was about how good you where at telling the story. Let's go back to hogan for a instance, if you look at his matches throughout the 80 and even during is second big run in the mid 90's, what did they both of these run have in common, they both had Hogan do what the fans wanted him to do. Hogan was on of the best wrestlers for that reason, the guy was a pretty good technical wrestler as i saw some of his matches in the early 80's when he was a heel and the guy was able to have a pretty good match with anybody. But he went to the AWA, figure out that all he need to do was to the bare minimum and play to the crowd and do his catchphrase and the fans would go bunkers for the act. So he ran with it and he became the face of pro wrestling for generations after that. so in my book that's what i considered being a good worker and having a good workrate. It's been able to sell your character to the point where it doesn'T matter what you do in the ring, fans will except you no matter what.

    That why guys like sammartino, Flair, Savage, Hogan, andre the giant and stone cold steve austin just to name those guys become mega stars in their different era, it's never was about the move they did in the ring but it was about the story they were telling in the ring and the natural charisma they had. If you take those element away, none of these guys would have become what they have become because it's one thing to be athletic, but if you have the personality of a door knob, nobody will care about you.
     
  14. Garak

    Garak Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    23
    I'm one of the man's biggest critics, but he did use a suplex on occasion. As was already pointed out, his WWF match style was not the same as what he did elsewhere.
     
  15. bringitback

    bringitback Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    26
    Yeah, you’ve outlined a word that has nothing to do with the original question posed. The post concerns Hogan as a “worker”, not Hogan’s workrate. The term worker does not derive from workrate, it relates to the work of a wrestling match...as in how the performers work the marks into believing what they’re seeing and going along with the story. In the history of wrestling, Hogan is the greatest at working a crowd. He was never the greatest workhorse with the greatest workrate...but that’s not what the original post was about.
     
  16. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93

    thanks for the history lesson. doesn't negate the fact that getting the crowd involved in your match is the biggest factor in how your work in the ring is perceived. As said, all the Harts, Benoits, Guerreros and HBKs could wrestle circles around Hulk but they didn't come close to connecting with the fans or making money like Hogan did. So get the dictionary definition and cry all you want; Hulk is one of the greatest workers in pro wrestling that there ever was, any promoter will tell you that making money is the key factor in a great wrestler and Hogan had that ability in spades.
     
  17. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93
    manhattan drop, back suplex, scoop slam, clothesline, bear hug, vertical suplex, big boot, leg drop, elbow drop; all moves I've seen Hogan do in matches regularly and that's just off the top of my head
     
  18. Hitman80

    Hitman80 Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    8
    Hulk Hogan was very good at working the crowd but he wouldn’t be in the top 50 wrestlers for wrestling ability if we’re honest.
     
  19. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93
    no but the question was "is Hogan a good worker" and the answer is most definitely yes, he was able to work the crowd like no other and in the scripted world of pro wrestling that is the most important part of the performance; not the work rate as some here would suggest
     
  20. Hordriss

    Hordriss Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    3
    He suplexed Sgt. Slaughter from the apron into the ring in the WM7 match. I only know this because I watched it last night!
     
    relentless1 likes this.
  21. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    13,043
    Likes Received:
    3,830
    It depends on what you mean by your definition of a good or bad worker. When it comes to in-ring ability, such as athleticism or technical knowhow, Hogan was pretty piss poor and if you're someone who prizes that above anything else, then Hogan was atrocious as a worker, especially if you asked old school legends like Lou Thesz or Vern Gagne. As far as working the crowd goes, Hogan was fantastic and he drew more money than any of the men before him could have ever dreamed of.

    Even though Hogan wasn't particularly athletic or a technical marvel, he had a great physical look, was loaded with charisma and had the ability to make the fans deeply care about whatever he was involved with. At the end of the day, in my opinion, if you can't make the fans care about you, then nothing else really matters.

    In the WWE today, however, it's not quite that simple as now it's not so much if a wrestler gets over, it's if a wrestler gets over within the very narrow confines and limits placed upon him/her by Vince McMahon. The vast majority of WWE wrestlers, regardless of gender, don't have anything remotely resembling the sort of creative control or input Hogan enjoyed; they have to do what Vince tells them to do, exactly how he tells them to do it and if they're unable to make it worth with what he gives them, he chalks it up to being their fault and moves onto someone else.
     
  22. IconMCI

    IconMCI Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    6
    The fact that you are all talking about Hogan means he is a great worker... He is still working all of you... LOL
     
    relentless1 likes this.
  23. MWRedskins

    MWRedskins Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    99
    as many have already said, it depends on what you mean by "work." if you mean working the crowd, then he's the TOP at doing that. he knew how to put them in the palm of his hand, face or heel really.
    Now if you mean by "in ring wrestling work" then he's more of a guy who just got by with his limited move set, but he sold enough to do decent. He wasnt Kevin Nash or Sid in the ring (he was better than them two at least), but no he isnt Daniel Bryan. Hogan is more of an entertainer than a wrestler, but again, he knew how to work the crowd and can still work them today. Just ripping his shirt got Hogan cheers.
     
  24. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ask any wrestler and they will tell you that a good "worker" is a guy who brings in the money. Period. They aren't marks like some of you on this thread, they understand that its a business and whomever is a great draw is a great worker. Hogan was one of the tope 3 greatest draws of all time....
     
  25. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    312
    I totally agree with you, Just look at some of the other big draws in wwe since they started as the WWWF in the 60's. You didn't need to be a technical wizard to be a draw, Sarmartino was a big draw not because he was a technical genius, he was over because of his charisma and presense. Morales was the same in the 70's. Hogan had the 80's covered and then you look at austin and the rock. Austin was a pretty good technical wrestlers but he pretty much went the other way when he started the stone cold character because he knew that being a brawler was the way to get over and he got over huge, Same for the rock, not a great technical wrestler but had a lot of charisma and fans just bought his act.

    That's what i feel some fans in the IWC doesn't get, to be a good worker you need to be able to connect with the crowd. For some it will be through they wrestling, for others it will be just based on charisma. Daniel bryan is a awesome wrestlers but truly didn't start getting over until he started the yes chant and showed he had charisma and now because he doesn't think like a wrestler anymore, he as one of his best run ever in wrestling.

    Hogan was in the forefront of not one but two wrestling boom during his career, so let's just say that he's was one of the best worker in wrestling because of that alone.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"