"He's Been Hugging The World Title Scene All The Time"

[Ferbian]

This is a phrase I've heard on a regular basic on this forum for the complete period of time I've been a member on here, I've heard the phrase uttered constantly in the WWE section about John Cena, Triple H, Randy Orton and Edge winning world titles to the left and right.

People are saying they need to let the young guys up and start doing their thing, they need to give the championship belt to someone else, and they need to bring variation to the people who contend for the world title.

I'm certain we also see this in TNA as well, at one point or another people have thought "Kurt Angle is hugging the world title" or "A.J Styles should be given the chance with the world title".

And it's a phrase we've been hearing for years, and it's most likely due to the fact that the current main event players are getting the championship a lot, and they get them rapidly with new reigns raising fast.

But looking back in time, to the Attitude Era, we saw people like Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Mankind and Undertaker contending for the world title all the time, again we also saw the championship being thrown around with over 10 new reigns in under a years time.

Yet we praise the Attitude Era for it's storylines, I have yet to hear anybody stand up for the current era of championship reigns, or anybody bash the Attitude Era.

We can also go to WCW here, Hulk Hogan getting championship reigns that were longer than the majority of reigns we see today, yet nearing the end of it we saw the world title getting thrown around more than anything we've ever seen, reigns not lasting a week, reigns not lasting 2 months.

And ultimately, we can go even further back, Hogan in WWF, holding the championship for years at the time, Ric Flair in NWA holding the championship for years at a time.

What I'm saying is that we've always seen one, or two top guys constantly holding a championship for a long period of time, or with rapidly changing reigns, yet we bash the current era more than I have heard the former era's bashed.

And all I can say is that it simply leaves me scratching my head, wondering, why is that? why are we bashing the current era? is it simply because of John Cena? one of the business' top draws? is it because Triple H got championships that he certainly did deserve, but ultimately were screwing the bosses daughter?

Please do tell me people, what in the world is it that makes you bash the current era of championship reigns?

And this thread applies to any other reader, even if you are not bashing the current reign of championships in WWE, TNA, ROH wherever you're bashing them, or more likely, where you're not bashing them, why do you think that people would be bashing it?

 

[The Brain]

Here's a fun fact for you. Between Royal Rumble 1998 and WrestleMania XIX every WWF ppv main event involved either Austin, Rock, Taker, or Triple H. I don't have a problem with that, but I don't have a problem with Cena, Orton, Triple H, etc always in contention today. My problem is the length of title reigns. Let's take Cena's championship win at WrestleMania XXV for example. He had a nice celebration, but he only lost the title at No Way Out a month before. Then he dropped the title at Backlash a month later. In my opinion both of those devalue his mania title win. Cena makes such a big deal about winning the title because he's worked so hard for it, but he wins and loses it every few months. I'm not buying into the inspirational title chase when it only lasts two months and then the reign also only lasts two months only to start another two month chase. If he were to suffer some setbacks and be kept out of contention for a long period of time his eventual title win would mean more. Then have the reign last a long time so it would mean more when he lost it. The year long reign in 2006/2007 was great. Let's see another one of those regardless of who the title holder is.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

A good majority of the IWC will never be satisfied, now matter what WWE does. People complain when Cena has the championship, people complain when Orton has the championship, and certain people want to riot when Triple H even gets near the WWE title. Then you'll see a lot people say, "WWE should just shock us! Throw the title on somebody who we would never expect to be a world champion!" Well, WWE did that back at the TLC PPV with Sheamus, but as soon as word got out that he was being endorsed by Triple H, then a lot of people wanted to shit on Sheamus. Cena and Orton are top guys, and the are the faces of this era in the WWE, so of course they're going to be in the main event a lot, and of course they will have multiple world title reigns.

Now as far as TNA goes, I've never seen too many or any complaints about Kurt Angle being a world champion. And a lot of that has to with the fact that Angle can still put on five star matches, and he can do an awesome job with a heel or face character.

During the golden days of Hulkamania, nobody was really went over Hogan to often or ever. Hogan was the hottest thing in all of pro wrestling back then. The only guys who were able to really shine during his time were Savage and Warrior.

The same thing goes for the attitude era. Rock VS Stone Cold was an epic feud. And of course Stone Cold became the hottest star in WWF since Hogan around this time, and Rock was right up there with him. Also, Mankind and The Undertaker were on a roll back then.

 

[Super Crazy]

There are a few things that bug me about how the championship reigns right now and that is that they are just booked oddly. Sooner or later they are going to have to elevate a whole crop of stars as some top guys are going to be done retiring soon. With guys like Triple H, Cena, Orton, Edge, Jericho, Undertaker and Punk in the main event, they are not elevating anyone. They need to face new challengers that at the least can go from upper mid card to main event at any chance and seem like a credible challenger, or at least someone that can actually hold the championship and have a successful run.

Don't get me wrong I love seeing Randy Orton and Triple H fighting for championships, same can be said for Cena and Edge, even Punk and Taker, but I think it's time for certain people to help elevate guys. Recently Triple H helped elevate Sheamus and establish his credibility, and it's done wonders for his character. The Undertaker, once he returns, needs to elevate a newer, young talent to help establish them and seem like a credible threat. As for Cena and Punk and Edge, I know they are nowhere's near the twilight of their career, except for maybe Edge, but they too should be taking on all challengers, not the usual guys.

 

[TheAnimal]

I think its that the same feuds are presented to us more so than they were back then. And even if they were repeated (eg Rock v HHH, Rock v Austin) they always had a new twist or something to develop them. The repeat feuds nowadays seem like reruns. When we saw HHH v Orton and Cena v Edge for Mania 25 we may as well have put on WWE from 2006 because they didnt really develop it. I know there was more violence with HHH v Orton and HHH went to his house but the promos were the same, they still bought Evolution into it which was years previously and had been dealt with at that time. Cena v Orton got repeated and was literally the same except that Cenas father didnt get punted in the head.

I think as well, at least with the attitude era you could feel more inclined to take a leap of faith with them that the feuds would be better/different if repeated and they delivered more often than not.

The title reigns dont seem to be as important with the way that they just take the belt from Cena, then put it back on him. That doesnt help the situation. With the attitude era, Foley and Rock traded the title for a few months at the end of 98/early 99 but then Austin had it, then Undertaker did and then HHH with very short Austin and Mankind reigns in between. The short reigns didnt matter too much because the championship didnt really go from a to b then back to a, thus making bs reign pointless.

 

[Dan E. Inferno]

I do agree with you Ferbian in that it isn't something new to have a select group of superstars who dominate the title and the main event scene. Like you said, there was Austin, Rock, Mankind and Taker during the attitude era, and, well, just Hogan during the late eighties. So, I think the reason people continuously bash the title huggers of today is that they simply don't care for this particular bunch.

Triple H is an obvious case. He's married to Steph, he has creative pull, and people seem to hate that. Everytime he comes closer to reaching 16 world titles, a large portion of the IWC erupts in fury. Apparantly, Cena can't wrestle and he only knows five moves. People generally seem to like Edge, but they dislike his hotshot title reigns that last a matter of three weeks max. Although Orton is very popular now, just a few months ago he was boring everyone with his two minute headlocks and methodical style.

So, I think people's dislike at the same wrestlers holding the title in the present day is that it's just not as good as it was ten years ago. It seems to be a reflection of how many fans feel about the wrestling product as a whole nowadays compared to ten years ago. Fans probably wouldn't have a problem if they were constantly being entertained by HHH, Cena and co, but that obviously isn't the case. Personally, I don't think it's as bad as all that. OK, these four guys have spent a lot of time holding the title over the past five years, and sometimes it gets a bit boring. But there has been plenty of good moments, and over the last couple of years CM punk and Sheamus have become multiple time champions themselves.

The only problem I really have is the constant changing of titles, as if the amount of title reigns is all that's important. I mean HHH -13, Cena/Edge - 9, and Orton - 6, I believe. However, The Rock and Stone Cold had a shitload of title reigns within a small space of time themselves. Which brings me back to my earlier point. HHH and Cena simply aren't Stone Cold and The Rock, and many fans today just don't like it, leaving HHH, Cena and co to recieve the criticism that they do.

 

[The Brain]

There are a few things that bug me about how the championship reigns right now and that is that they are just booked oddly. Sooner or later they are going to have to elevate a whole crop of stars as some top guys are going to be done retiring soon. With guys like Triple H, Cena, Orton, Edge, Jericho, Undertaker and Punk in the main event, they are not elevating anyone. They need to face new challengers that at the least can go from upper mid card to main event at any chance and seem like a credible challenger, or at least someone that can actually hold the championship and have a successful run.

Don't get me wrong I love seeing Randy Orton and Triple H fighting for championships, same can be said for Cena and Edge, even Punk and Taker, but I think it's time for certain people to help elevate guys. Recently Triple H helped elevate Sheamus and establish his credibility, and it's done wonders for his character. The Undertaker, once he returns, needs to elevate a newer, young talent to help establish them and seem like a credible threat. As for Cena and Punk and Edge, I know they are nowhere's near the twilight of their career, except for maybe Edge, but they too should be taking on all challengers, not the usual guys.

I see what you're saying here, but if you take a look they are creating new stars. First of all, I don't think you can put CM Punk in the same group as Cena, Orton, and Triple H. Punk is realatively new to the main event scene and isn't always in the main event. Because of his main event push last year he can switch between upper mid card and main event seemlessly.

New stars are being created right now. You mentioned Sheamus. He is one example. Jack Swagger is another. Even Wade Barrett. Then there's guys like Drew McIntyre and the Miz. A lot of people don't realize that they are being groomed right now. Not everyone needs to jump in the ring with Cena to establish himself as a main event guy. McIntyre and Miz are developing their characters in the upper mid card. Hypothetically let's say they continue in the mid card for the next year or so. Then Edge decides it's time to retire. Either one of those guys will be ready to step into that spot by then.

So many people want every mid card guy that shows any kind of potential immediately rushed to the main event. Then when someone is they quickly forget about it. The main event of SummerSlam could be Evan Bourne against Wade Barrett and people will still be looking for new main event stars. The omission of Jack Swagger in the above post is proof.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As far as the WWE goes, I think Mitch Henessey raised a good point when it comes to the IWC. Some members of the IWC are going to complain about the WWE no matter what simply because they've decided to just be anti-WWE. Not that there haven't been legitimate complaints about the WWE of course, but some just will never give the WWE credit for any strides they make towards fixing problems. As far as the WWE Championship scene goes, I agree that there have been times in which it's become tiresome seeing the same people. However, it's nothing new. There have always been a small number of wrestlers that've always just been in the title hunt. You saw much the same thing during the Attitude Era and hardly any complaints about it. The reason for that is because many within the IWC have a romanticized view of the Attitude Era as this epic golden age in which all was right with wrestling. Now, I did enjoy the Attitude Era, but it definitely had more than its fair share of shit to complain about. In spite of what some might say, every angle wasn't an epic storyline nor was every match a 5 Star Classic, not by any stretch. Many have simply convinced themselves that the Attitude Era was better than it actually was, which is something that lots of people do concerning times in their lives when they were growing up or coming of age, etc. They remember it as being better than what it actually was.

As far as TNA goes, I have to say that I've been one of the few that's complained about Kurt Angle. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and he can still go with the best of them. But, as the title of the thread says, Angle is one of the guys that's been hugging the world title scene in TNA almost the entire time he's been with TNA. I've even said that he's quickly becoming the TNA version of Triple H.

 

[Super Crazy]

I see what you're saying here, but if you take a look they are creating new stars. First of all, I don't think you can put CM Punk in the same group as Cena, Orton, and Triple H. Punk is realatively new to the main event scene and isn't always in the main event. Because of his main event push last year he can switch between upper mid card and main event seemlessly.

New stars are being created right now. You mentioned Sheamus. He is one example. Jack Swagger is another. Even Wade Barrett. Then there's guys like Drew McIntyre and the Miz. A lot of people don't realize that they are being groomed right now. Not everyone needs to jump in the ring with Cena to establish himself as a main event guy. McIntyre and Miz are developing their characters in the upper mid card. Hypothetically let's say they continue in the mid card for the next year or so. Then Edge decides it's time to retire. Either one of those guys will be ready to step into that spot by then.

So many people want every mid card guy that shows any kind of potential immediately rushed to the main event. Then when someone is they quickly forget about it. The main event of SummerSlam could be Evan Bourne against Wade Barrett and people will still be looking for new main event stars. The omission of Jack Swagger in the above post is proof.

I realize guys like the Miz and McIntyre are being groomed for the main event right now, a long wit a few others possibly, I should have worded my statement better. I did not mean that new stars are not being created, I meant that it would be nice to see different challengers for the championships rather then the same back and forth that occurs most of the time.

And you're right about Punk, I should not have thrown his name out there as he hasn't truly main evented since his feud with Undertaker. I don't want everyone rushed into the main event I just wish I could see a fresh face or two in a main event in a pay per view. That is all I am asking for, that and a new champion who has never held the belt before.

 

[Platypus Palsy]

During the Attitude Era, The Rock and Triple H were new contenders for the title. They had just come into their own during the era along with Austin and were still young. Hell, Mankind/Foley may have been old but he was new to the title scene. Now, Triple H and the Undertaker are older and this era is seen as full of more people holding younger talent down, by way of a few of the older guys and the same people from 5-6 years ago being in the title picture. I'd like to add that I don't have this complaint.

TNA is a different case in the fact that at the beginning, Jarrett was pretty much champion all the time, or at least in the title match it seemed. Once that stopped and TNA became it's own thing, Kurt Angle took over the title scene by holding or being near the title until AJ won it at Sacrifice in 2009. AJ fought the likes of Joe, Daniels, and Pope. He did end up fighting Angle, but didn't lose the title to him. He then lost the title to RVD who is pretty new to the company, but nearing or is 40.

I hate to admit it, but age wise TNA has the bigger problem with it's champions and challengers. AJ and Joe are the only two champions under the age of 39. (RVD is still 39) Now that I've looked at the list of champions, I'm surprised more people don't/didn't complain about TNA and the old guys that have been near the title since 2007.

 

[Dave]

The thing is Ferbs, that the great people of the IWC look back on the Attitude Era with rose-tinted goggles. They see it as a prosperous time when nothing was ever out of the ordinary because ordinary was never an option. They see it a s a time when everything just came together for the WWE and no amount of talking is ever going to convince them that the WWE was shaky at best for a long time.

The passed the WWE Championship just as quickly then as they do now and in some cases, they did it even more quickly. I literally have no idea where this myth of the Attitude Era being so solid with title holders comes from. In fact, it could be argued that the people who were consistently in the main event then, could be compared the main event talent of right now and the superstars of today would maybe have the advantage. When I think back at the Attitude Era, I think of The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Kurt Angle and The Undertaker being the main event talent. When you look at today’s product, you have people like John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H, The Undertaker, Sheamus and perhaps Rey Mysterio in the main event.

What is even more impressive is that today’s product is split over two shows and that creates a lot more main event talent. The responsibilities of which are passed on to that particular person. When you look at people like CM Punk and Jack Swagger, you can’t help but feel that they would have been buried by the talent back in the Attitude Era, simply because that upper echelon of talent back then was an impenetrable fortress that no one could access unless you were a fucking special talent. Back then, the same people filled the main event and it was just as stale as it is now. The only thing that kept it going was the edgier angles that they utilised.

I put it to you that the WWE of today is doing a lot better in this case. Not only have they made the main event scene a whole lot more accessible for mid-card talent to get to, they don’t need to plaster on tacky angles that need to push the boundaries to get over. Rather, they have managed to create a more competitive main event scene with less frills.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

I'm with you on this Ferbs, but i'm going to keep this short...

I think if back in the 80's, there was internet forums like this one...you'd have gotten people who were around back then saying the same thing...Hogan, Flair are hogging the titles...plus..i think it as different then...they never had weekly shows did they?? like we have Raw, Smackdown and iMPACT today...

We've grown up looking at those guys as legends, now I wasn't born around when Flair dominated the 80's, and when I look back and see how long he held them titles, I would say what a legend...now we get kids being born now...and in 10 years, when they get into wrestling and see how many reigns Cena had, they will say the same thing..what a legend...(although we might think otherwise..)

Was that short?? IDK..