Heel or Face Turn on RAW or PPV?

[stephenjpunk317]

Reading through Cena threads about turning heel and possibilities of that got me thinking. What is the best way to turn someone? Is it on a RAW so you have to tune in next week and see what happens? or should it be at a PPV, so you have to see how the story plays out that night? I think both angles could be argued, and personally I think RAW could use the ratings bump, so if the right person turned at the right time, then you would tune in the next week, and possibly more people would be interested to tune in. I guess I would compare it to the rise of Punk last summer, where you were tuning in to see what he would do next week. What do you think?

 

[a7xfan93]

If you want to really make an impact and get everyone's attention, you have to do it on live on free tv, not a ppv. On a ppv, only the 10,000 in attendance and the 100,000 people who purchase the ppv will see it. If you have it on Monday Night Raw, or Smackdown, the whole world can see it (except for the people that don't have a tv.)

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

maybe this whole situation that cena turning heel, that the storyline is also built for kane is well. Maybe it is way off the mark, but the commentators esp cole have highlighted the new kane gimmick kane resurrected, its brought a whole new side of kane that we have not seen in ages. But what if it is a start of a path of destruction for kane, that will see him go through the roster destroying everyone, leading to take down punk or even taker in may june time, if they tend to see a big monster run for kane but without the title.

On Cena he does not need to turn heel, he just needs a reboot where his gimmick is fresh again, he is more arrogant but not quiet a heel, there are other options other than a cena heel turn. Do not forget, the rumble twist at the end of the PPV. Maybe they have something different in mind other than the cena heel turn

 

[HorsemenNo4]

Both have their advantages.
As a7xfan93 mentioned, having a turn on RAW or Smackdown allows everyone to see it. It's good for mid-carders or lower level guys to get some attention since they wouldn't be on a PPV otherwise.
Turns on PPV's only work for main eventers. To me, it's a traditional thing. Stone Cold turned heel at Wrestlemania and aligned himself with Vince McMahon. If that happened on RAW, it would be big, but still feel less important than it really was.

 

[RD_21]

maybe this whole situation that cena turning heel, that the storyline is also built for kane is well. Maybe it is way off the mark, but the commentators esp cole have highlighted the new kane gimmick kane resurrected, its brought a whole new side of kane that we have not seen in ages. But what if it is a start of a path of destruction for kane, that will see him go through the roster destroying everyone, leading to take down punk or even taker in may june time, if they tend to see a big monster run for kane but without the title.

On Cena he does not need to turn heel, he just needs a reboot where his gimmick is fresh again, he is more arrogant but not quiet a heel, there are other options other than a cena heel turn. Do not forget, the rumble twist at the end of the PPV. Maybe they have something different in mind other than the cena heel turn

Woooosh... that's the sound of you missing the point of the topic completely.

On topic, I think it's really hard to say. I had to delete and rethink my sentence 3 times because I was about to say, the best way is x.... delete... the best way is y.... delete.

I can't say for sure. Of course at the end of an event you have to turn in the next week and it can generate discussion and anticipation, but on the other I think that a turn in the main event can really do more. People would go crazy asking why he did this or that. Then people who didn't saw it would want to watch on the next night to see what he did and they may even feel like they need to order PPV the next time since something big could happen on a PPV.

When everything happens on free TV you start to wonder why you should pay.

 

[kdk5680]

if done correctly, it doesnt matter when. Heel turns should come naturally, not out of a blue. The best heel turn EVER was the Michaels/barbershop. Everyone remembers the kick, but few remember that there had been problems with th Rockers for months, with Jannety leaving Michaels in the ring to get destroyed and then Shawn doing the same thing. The reason they were on the Barbershop was to "bury" the hatchet after Michaels had refused to tag-in, costing them the belts.

Another natural turn came when Mankind turned after the crowd chanted for Austin while Foley was getting his but kicked in. As he said, he didnt change the fans did. Much the same way with Brett Hart. Thats why he was always a favorite in Canada, because he never changed, the fans did.

With Cena, the build-up is there, which should lead to some kind of PPV action that is perceived as possible heel, followed by the actual turn on RAW. Have him in a tag team or two on one match at Elimination chamber with an injured Ryder, where he lets Ryder get his ass whooped by Kane, the crowd would boo him even worse, even the little kids would boo him for being a coward. Then on the following Raw, JR, or the King have an in-ring interview with Cena to ask him what happened. Thats when he reveals he understands what Kane has been telling him, embraces the hate, and destroys whoever is giving the interview. This would be the final turn, leving him clearly as the heel at WRM, and leading to a great run as a villain with him and Kane destroying everyone, eventually leadin to a returning Ryder to take him out at next years WRM, where he would see the light, ala Hoagn vs the Rock, or for you older fans, when Sgt. Slaughter reembraced his country after defecting to join the Iron Sheik.

Sorry about the length, just my ideas

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

Woooosh... that's the sound of you missing the point of the topic completely.

On topic, I think it's really hard to say. I had to delete and rethink my sentence 3 times because I was about to say, the best way is x.... delete... the best way is y.... delete.

I can't say for sure. Of course at the end of an event you have to turn in the next week and it can generate discussion and anticipation, but on the other I think that a turn in the main event can really do more. People would go crazy asking why he did this or that. Then people who didn't saw it would want to watch on the next night to see what he did and they may even feel like they need to order PPV the next time since something big could happen on a PPV.

When everything happens on free TV you start to wonder why you should pay.

Like I have said, the rumble end is a indication they may not go for the obvious. Like many thought Y2J would win the rumble, with so many PPL thinking the heel turn, the writers may go for the totally unexpected finish to this feud. I do not think cena needs a heel turn, but a gimmick that is more basic but allot more gritty but he could stay face, but not be so nice. What would be cool is a more aggressive cena that is a more serious character. What if cena snaps after the kane feud, that could be another option.

But we got to see even more meat to this feud if we ever will get the legs of a cena heel turn, which for me the heel turn pridiction is becoming more obvious than PPL's predictions Y2J would win the rumble, and WWE do not like the obvious. But also do not forget how they repackaged clay no one expected that to happen, all expected a basic monster heel and we got funked. So the message is do not be surprised with the total unexpected pay off to the feud good or bad

 

[stephenjpunk317]

if done correctly, it doesnt matter when. Heel turns should come naturally, not out of a blue. The best heel turn EVER was the Michaels/barbershop. Everyone remembers the kick, but few remember that there had been problems with th Rockers for months, with Jannety leaving Michaels in the ring to get destroyed and then Shawn doing the same thing. The reason they were on the Barbershop was to "bury" the hatchet after Michaels had refused to tag-in, costing them the belts.

Another natural turn came when Mankind turned after the crowd chanted for Austin while Foley was getting his but kicked in. As he said, he didnt change the fans did. Much the same way with Brett Hart. Thats why he was always a favorite in Canada, because he never changed, the fans did.

With Cena, the build-up is there, which should lead to some kind of PPV action that is perceived as possible heel, followed by the actual turn on RAW. Have him in a tag team or two on one match at Elimination chamber with an injured Ryder, where he lets Ryder get his ass whooped by Kane, the crowd would boo him even worse, even the little kids would boo him for being a coward. Then on the following Raw, JR, or the King have an in-ring interview with Cena to ask him what happened. Thats when he reveals he understands what Kane has been telling him, embraces the hate, and destroys whoever is giving the interview. This would be the final turn, leving him clearly as the heel at WRM, and leading to a great run as a villain with him and Kane destroying everyone, eventually leadin to a returning Ryder to take him out at next years WRM, where he would see the light, ala Hoagn vs the Rock, or for you older fans, when Sgt. Slaughter reembraced his country after defecting to join the Iron Sheik.

Sorry about the length, just my ideas

Definitely agree with this first paragraph, the idea that it has to be kind of drawn out, like Daniel Bryan. Even with his win last night, he was celebrating like it was his first time winning which probably is a heel thing in a way since it should be expected that he would retain. And this is also a case where we've seen some aspects of a turn on tv and on ppv, so I hope this can fully pay off for Bryan.

 

[BaconBits]

I think you gotta do pretty much every big heel/face turn on RAW or Smackdown as opposed to PPV. You get maximum viewers that way, meaning the turn has maximum impact.

 

[evantay26]

Just a thought, If cena goes on a rampage against Kane, is he turning heel? I think right now he is in the middle of nowhere, and beating Kane who is terrorizing him and Ryder, doesn't mean he turns heel. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And if he was to snap, I think the fans would want it on Raw, but WWE could probably make some more money if they build to a turn and complete it on a ppv.

 

[Jackal960]

If it is a big turn, like Cena, Austin, Hogan etc I would do it in a PPV, actually might as well do it at Wrestlemania. After WM it's a given that people will watch Raw every week for a while. If it is a relatively less important turn, for wrestlers who turn often, you can do it at Raw, no need to do it at a PPV. I always go for a PPV turn but for stars who normally turn every once in a while, you don't have to use a PPV. In Cena's situation, if you ever want to turn him heel, WM is the perfect place and timing. If the match will actually be for the belt, it is ideal for the Rock NOT winning it. Mind you it's in Miami, so what a better way to piss off the crowd by giving Cena a win, by a heel turn, a help from a heel character maybe. On that night all the children in Miami and their grandmothers will boo Cena out of the building, it wil be a Bash at the Beach II.

 

[ron1379]

just my opinion but cena will never turn heel actually he'd probably quit than let the wwe turn him the reason I say this is 1st he is the Ambassador of The Make a Wish Foundation so the notion of letting millions of kids down is not an option for him even if it is scripted 2nd if you saw the rr last night cena has surpasssed everyone including the rock on twitter and facebook 3rd don't get me wrong I'd like to see a diffrent angle to cena but unfortunatly the facts speak for themselves again just my opinion.

 

[rahi619]

It would have to be done on TV but I doubt they'll turn him heel sadly.

 

[BizzarroNavarro]

yeah id like to be wrong but I really dont ever see him turning heel either, if anything maybe just as he is now and I dont mean becoming more aggressive I mean just him not being in the title picture and maybe take a somewhat backseat to other people. But I dont think a heel turn will take place, I mean even when Austin did it wasnt for that that long I dont think a full year that is, and he was back to being a crowd favorite

 

[Headman]

Yeah, I'm fine with Cena taking a backseat. I'm not fine with Punk's reign being boring as hell. I wish he'd go heel again seeing as he's better as a heel anyway. I'm not exactly sure why people want Cena to go heel. I guess they have enough faith in his ability as an entertainer to come up with a heel character that would revolutionize the industry and make even more money than he does as a face. I know they must have a reason because internet fans are so secure in their opinions and don't need an official designation of heel or face to be comfortable in booing or cheering who they want. It's not as if making him a heel would validate their opinions so they could have some sort of bragging rights to say "I hated him first". Wrestling fans have real things to worry about and real accomplishments to brag about. And yes, you don't have to have your biggest star at the top of the card. Sometimes instead of having a guy who some people hate and some people love but always gets a reaction, it's better to have a couple guys who absolutely no one who doesn't live on wrestling websites cares about take top billing. With all of this said, if a major star turns heel or face I think it's more about timing than venue. If it happens on tv more people are going to see it, but if it happens on ppv they reward the paying customers (Except for the really smart fans who steal it, right?). I guess when it comes down to it I believe ppv is for the payoff, and a heel turn is more of a starting point than a payoff.

 

[Natalya's Fart]

There is no right answer to this. The best opportunity to turn someone heel is directly impacted by what you hope to achieve by it. The actual day you do it, be it a Monday, Friday, or Sunday is irrelevant as it's always a vehicle to get viewers to tune in for the next program.

 

[rated-r-patelstar]

at a ppv this should happen, then i might actually go away thinking that i have actually seen something rather than been let down.

at the end he says fuk it, this is it, that me done, ive done all i can, the crowd get going half and half but he says there are more that hate him than not, zack his best friend comes out and tries to help him and he explains that by doding all this look at him look at what has happend it can only get bad. he beats down zack and someone FACE tryies to stop and he beats them down

 

[Mustang Sally]

I guess when it comes down to it I believe ppv is for the payoff, and a heel turn is more of a starting point than a payoff.

Good line; I like it.....and it's true, an attitude change is a fundamental alteration of character; presumably, it isn't something that happens overnight, or because of a single incident.

Remember, too, that John Cena is unlike everyone else in WWE; a face turn by him is more important and bigger news than a face change by anyone else. When he turns, it sets the wrestling world on it's ear because he's been the epitome of "good".....and when he turns, he'll be as bad as bad can be.

There's ample reason for a Cena attitude change; the fans booing the hell out of him after he's spent so much time and effort doing it all for them. How the booing got started isn't important, but last night at the Rumble, he listened to the boos and didn't shrug them off with a smile as he's done before, did you notice that? I thought I noted a tinge of disgust in his manner.....don't tell me the guy can't do "subtle."

But when it comes, do it on Raw so the whole world gets to see it. Do it on the night after a pay-per-view so the whole thing is set up by what happened the night before. That's effectively the way WWE has done other "changes of direction" for characters in the past; have the big break come at the PPV, then define it on Monday night. One important change might come tonight, when Triple H shows up to evaluate Laurinaitis, and it will probably extend back to what went down at the Rumble. It's a time-tested way of going in new directions.

In the world of pro wrestling, John Cena going bad is earth-shaking.. Kane may be the vehicle that brings Cena's change crashing down, or he may be just a step in the process.......but when it comes, it will be huge.

Do it on USA Network.

 

[alfonzo13]

Without a doubt, tv. But it could work either way I guess. For example, if Randy Orton turned heel on tv, every wrestling fan could see it happen. But then again, if it happened on a ppv, only the people who ordered it could see it, but them news would get around and the people who didn't order it would tune in on tv to see what happened. So I guess I'm half and half on this.