Have We All Been Wrong About Managers?

[The Brain]

For years so many members of this forum, myself included, have been clamoring for the return of managers. The popular belief has always been a good manager could take someone that is talented in the ring but struggles on the mic and get him over. Were we all proven wrong in 2013?

Most people here seem to really like Paul Heyman and consider him to be one of the best managers ever in wrestling. In mid 2013 Heyman pulled Michael McGillicutty from obscurity and reinvented him as Curtis Axel. Axel has always been a pretty good in ring performer but doesn’t offer much when it comes to charisma or mic skills. That reputation did not improve with the pairing with Paul Heyman. Axel did win the Intercontinental title but his was one of the most lackluster reigns we’ve ever seen. The fans were just not interested in Axel at all.

In the fall Heyman took on another guy with a lot of potential in Ryback. Many thought a good manager like Heyman was the missing ingredient that would take Ryback to the next level. It didn’t happen. In fact it can easily be argued that Ryback actually regressed under Heyman. Why couldn’t Heyman get these guys over?

Maybe we’ve been wrong all along. Maybe we don’t need managers back. In the 21st century the fans aren’t going to care about a wrestler unless he can get over on his own. Managers can still serve a purpose. Paul Heyman was great with CM Punk. The difference was Punk was over on his own and he didn’t need Heyman. He was just the icing on the cake of a great character. So while I think managers can still be useful I think the days of using a manager to singlehandedly get a struggling talent over are long gone. A year ago I would have told you different but Heyman, Axel, and Ryback have proven me wrong.

 

[klunderbunker]

Mr. Perfect gets Bobby Heenan as a manager, wins the Intercontinental Title, challenges Hogan for the world title on house shows for months.

Honky Tonk Man gets Jimmy Hart as a manager, wins the Intercontinental Title, holds it longer than anyone in history.

Curtis Axel gets Paul Heyman as a manager and becomes CM Punk's whipping boy.

Ryback gets Paul Heyman as a manager and becomes CM Punk's whipping boy.

The gimmicks and the managers make no difference whatsoever if the clients keep losing every match they have. Axel and Ryback looked like losers out there because they were losing so often on TV. Heyman could talk them up all he wanted, but at the end of the day they weren't beating anyone. Ryback losing big PPV matches was a running joke for a long time.

Contrary to what people may think, wins and losses do count for something. Look at Ryback's peak: he was undefeated and an unstoppable monster. He becomes a whining loser and no one cares about him anymore. I'm sure there's a correlation there somewhere.

 

[lil steroid meat]

Heyman had returned for two years already at those points and was used with Punk and Lesnar extensively, so what could he have done new for a muscular, uncharismatic guy, we had JUST saw that with Lesnar?

I think managers definitely have a place in the industry. One of my favorite guys was Abraham Washington, the guy who got fired for making a Kobe Bryant/rape joke (while that Zeb dude prospers with an anti-Mexican gimmick but that's another topic) . . . he made watching the PTP matches interesting with the Live Commentary . . . that would work great for a guy like Big E, or even in TNA with the endless amount of guys who we are told to like just because they have "the look".

Also like the guy above me said, managers don't count for anything if the wrestler is made to look like a joke on his wins and losses record.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I think there are still some uses for managers. While I don't think we will ever see the days of a Bobby Heenan or a Jim Cornette or a Jimmy Hart leading guys from almost nothing to superstar status, a manager can still help a guy who lacks charisma get over to a degree. Look at what Coulter is doing with Swagger and Cesaro right now. Both Swagger and Cesaro are solid in the ring, but both guys were very meh as far as gimmicks and working the crowd went(Swagger more so than Cesaro). Then Coulter gets brought in and they are semi over as a midcard heel team. I don't see Coulter ever guiding either man to a world title, but it makes Swagger watchable and dare I say slightly entertaining, which is something that was hard to say before. He also gives Cesaro some heel heat while he learns to work WWE crowds and works his way up the ladder.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I thought Paul Heyman turned out to be more of a featured attraction by himself than a performer who shines light on his client. His pompous pronouncements tended to overshadow his prodigy, as was surely the case with Curtis Axel: I found myself more interested in the manager than the wrestler.

In the case of BRRR-ock Lesnar, the pairing was a hit, largely because Brock hardly spoke at all. At the same time, a presence like his wasn't going to be usurped by Heyman. Plus, the reason Heyman was hired by WWE in the first place was to keep Lesnar's name on our minds during the lengthy periods Brock was gone. It worked.

Managers of the past had their own styles, not all of which meshed with the wrestlers they represented. Some people think of Bobby Heenan as a star, but he wasn't; the only way he was scripted to affect the outcome of matches was by taking shots from his client's opponent. Other than that, Heenan was most effective behind a microphone than in his client's corner.

Too, managers like Rosa Mendes nullify the idea of keeping the position open. When all the manager does is shake her ass and try to distract opponents, it nullifies the notion of having her function as one.

In other words, the concept of "manager" is still effective if you've got the right people in the right roles. Don't count out Paul Heyman as a manager because of Ryback and Curtis Axel; his interaction with Brock Lesnar shows the concept is still viable with the right client.

Also, a manager can't take a "nothing" client and make him a star, but as in the case of Brock Lesnar, a manager can take a star and make him shine brighter.

 

[Dirk]

I don't think it's managers as a whole that are at fault here, or Paul Heyman either. What turned me off Axle was that being a "Paul Heyman guy" actually became a thing. Even worse - it became his gimmick. By that time we JUST had Punk as a champ that overstayed his welcome AND Brock took it to Triple H the PPV before.

By that time, I had enough of Heyman, personally. It was just a case of too much too soon. Then, tacking on little Mr Perfect to Heyman's star AND having HHH make him look like a bitch... Nah.

What's Jim Cornette doing when he's not making hilarious shoot-interviews? Maybe see if Regal doesn't want one more shot in the limelight and do something other than NXT. Shit, give any of the old guard a call and give us some variety! Paul Heyman is not the only manager in the employ of the WWE.

Zeb Coulter did a wonderful job with the two of the worst mic guys in the main roster and look how fun they are to watch.

 

[Diet Soda]

In the case of Ryback and Axel, not only do their perpetual losses make them look foolish, but it also reflects badly on Heyman, and redefines what it means to be a "Paul Heyman Guy". After all, what's the point in aligning oneself with a manager if they don't elevate your status on the roster?

Conversely, with Zeb Coulter and the Real Americans, though they don't exactly have a clean sheet, the spiel they have as a trio provides a least a sort of entertainment value, whereas Axel was booked as generically as they come. Seriously, his gimmick was just a coat-tail rider; Mr. Perfect's son paired with a hitherto successful manager - where was his individual merit?

I don't think managers have lost their use or appeal at all, but for the outcome to work, it needs the right combination of characters and sound booking.

 

[Reflection]

The managers have to be so good and useful, that they are almost a part of the wrestler being managed.
Lets take a few examples- Gail Kim for AMW, that manager of Team Canada (I forgot his name), Paul Bearer for The Undertaker, Brother Runt of Team 3D, James Mitchell for Abyss, Konnan for LAX etc. to name a few, these guys were true managers. They were the type that were so involved with the wrestler/team, that you couldn't even imagine the wrestler/team without that person. It is like a dream combination, a team/wrestler and the manager may be talented, but that doesn't mean that the pairing will be a hit.

Now, lets take some other examples- Paul Heyman for Axel and Ryback, Abraham Washington for PTP and Primo/Epico, Funkadactyls for Tons of Funk, that bald black guy for Mark Henry in ECW, Ricardo for RVD, Vickie for Dolph, and so on... In these cases, all that the managers did, was to act as the wrestlers' mouthpiece, or to cause the occasional interference, or simply to come and celebrate with them at the end of the match. That much is not enough, and thus the alliances too didn't go too far or were too successful.

 

[Slash-LN]

As a couple other people have mentioned Zeb Coulter has done a wonderful job with Swagger and Cesaro. He has been entertaining and at the same time hasn't drawn full attention to himself. There's a good balance.

Heyman and Brock work well together because they have a friendship outside of wrestling and there's a real chemistry there. Remember Heyman was also Brock's first manager so they have years of experience together.

Part of being a good manager is having that chemistry with a wrestler. Or at least making it look like there's chemistry there. From what I understand Rick Rude always felt like he didn't need a manager but you couldn't tell that on screen. He and Bobby appeared believable.

In the case of Heyman and Axel and Ryback it just felt like they were thrown together just to see if it would work. With Ryback especially it just came off as being awkward.

I believe there is still a place for managers in wrestling but just like a tag team it can be hit or miss. The only thing you can do is try out a combo and if it works roll with it and if it doesn't then move on.