Has Terry Funk's Later Years Left A Stigma on His Legacy?

[Tenta]

Remember when we had that Wrestlezone Tournament? That was fun, right? all shits and giggles, and everyone left with a nice pink balloon, right? Who won again, I'm not really sure. Guess it was probably Steve Austin. I'll be on the Hogan ballot next year. Anyway, I remember, in the first round, we had a match between Randy Orton and Terry Funk. And it was a wild, back and forth affair. Oh, wait, I'm sorry, it was a lot of uninformed fans choosing the wrong guy to go over. Now, I wouldn't be so much of a prick about it, but it was literally people that were, and are, uninformed about Terry Funk, the wrestler. And My God, it wasn't like it was noobz who are just complete fucktards. No, all many of the names are respected, known entities on this forum. Some are, or have been, Mods for Christ Sakes. Not that, you know, infinite knowledge on Terry Funk is critical to being a mod, just to point out that these are names that are known around these here parts. Shall I sound the horns to bring them on board? I think I shall!

Terry Funk is at an immediate disadvantage because this isn't some bat shit crazy match. It is just a simple one on one submission or pinfall to a finish. I could see Funk dishing out some punishment to Orton, but ultimately, that RKO can come from no where. Keep in mind that Funk is a legend, but Orton is a Legend Killer. I see an RKO ending Funk's tournament bid early.

My vote goes to Orton.

My vote is going for Orton, simply because of the fact that while I know Terry is able to put on some proper matches, I will always think of him as a hardcore wrestler, in ECW, and I think that's one of the things that's gonna make Orton go over him, because I think Orton is able to put on a better overall wrestling match.
I mean Orton as of late, in the past year's time has been absolutely golden, and has been winning world titles here and there, as opposed to Terry Funk who, while he has the accomplishments superior to Randy, hasn't held as many world titles.

From a Kayfabe view, I see Randy pulling this one off in a grueling match, but will have a superiority solely because of the fact that there's no hardcore rules involved.

Randy Orton

Now, Im not going to bash Terry Funk or anything like that. I happen to like and respect Terry Funk. However, other than tearing his body up in countless hardcore matches, He really has never impressed me.

Orton, right now, is one of the ten best in the ring in the history of the WWE. You can discount him for working in this era, but his ring psychology is bar none the best in the business. Not a single move looks out of place. For this reason, Funk stands no chance. Funk needs an opening, and Randy never provides one. If this were a hardcore match, I would give Funk the edge, but there comes a point when voting for someone because they were old school becomes ridiculous. Randy is ten times the wrestler, one hundred times the athlete, and just as ruthless. Orton wins this match and I think it's a glorified squash.

And those were only my select fucking favorite tidbits of ignorance! Yes, I said ignorance, and I don't give a shit, because it's fucking true. Every one of these posters, who granted are intelligent on the sport of wrestling, gave a negative stigma to Terry Funk, as the "Hardcore Wrestler". Hardcore Wrestler? Who fucking said a damn thing about Terry Funk as a Hardcore Wrestler? RTo answer your question, ECW and Vince McMahon. It is my belief that Terry Funk's legacy isn't exactly tarnished by his work as a "hardcore wrestler", but that people forget everything else about Terry Funk because this is the most available media outlet to which you can see Terry Funk. First, let's rewind this a little bit; Terry Funk is Not, I repeat, Not a Hardcore Wrestler. Has he wrestler in Hardcore matches before, and has he wrestled them well? Yes, but saying Terry Funk wrestles Hardcore Matches is like saying that since Hulk Hogan's in TNA, he shall forever be known for his days in TNA. That logic, good sirs, is pure, unadulterated shit. Terry Funk used to wrestle one hour wrestling clinics with Harley Race and Jack Brisco, but nooooooooo, he's a fucking hardcore wrestler, isn't he? He and Ric Flair put on the greatest match in the history of Flair's fucking career in an I Quit Match at Clash of the Champions IX, and event that my father went to, and still kept around in his collection. But noooooo, because Vince McMahon wants us to believe such, he is absolutely a Hardcore Wrestler, isn't he?

First, let's start with the source of the problem, in his time in Eastern Championship Wrestling, in which he wrestled against Stan Hansen, Abdullah the Butcher, and the like, in Texas Tornado matches, and Texas Death Matches, and any other match you can prefix with Texas. And here's where we begin, in 1993, with the new belief that Terry Funk is a "hardcore wrestler". Mind you, he would come back to WCW, and wrestle in Colonel Rob Parker's stable with Meng, and his other two guys. I think one of them was Jack Swagger's dad. Anyway, so he goes to WCW, and the Hogan Era begins in earnest. So Terry goes back to what is now "Extreme Championship wrestling". At this point, Terry Funk has to adapt to the fans, and though he used to use weapons, he takes it to an extreme here, pardon the pun. All of a sudden, whispers go around. "Funk's Old. Funk can't wrestle like he used to. Funk is now a hardcore wrestler" And admittedly, Funk can;t do much to stop it, as his age won't allow him to go in the ring like he used to, injuries catch on big time, and what was once one of the best technicians in the world is now a "Hardcore Wrestler". Hardcore my ass.

Which brings us to Vince McMahon. Oh, Vince had Funk on roster before, but he never featured him, because of his style of wrestling, which he felt would make his other, inferior wrestlers look weak. All because Funk doesn't have the look. But now, Vince can wipe away all credibility for Funk as a great technician. Now, he smells blood in the water; he can be a hardcore wrestler. And that's just how he can portray Terry Funk now; he can portray Funk as a punch drunk old man on his last legs, who wrestles Hardcore Matches. Again, that doesn't make it try in any sense of the word, but that can be Terry Funk's new persona, because frankly, Vince didn't create Terry Funk the technician. No, he didn't do a damn thing for Funk the technician, but as a hardcore wrestler, he can be seen as this raving lunatic. What is it, Middle Aged and Crazy? Was that his gimmick any time he was brought back to the WWE? And that is the lasting impression, and that's how fans, who quite frankly, don't know any better, will see him as. Not a Great Southern Technician who most look foolish, and not a man who can tell a story like no one else in the ring. No, he's a hardcore wrestler, and such a hardcore wrestler, that no one stops to remember the legacy in which Funk rightly deserves, as one of the best all around wrestlers in the ring. No, not just a hardcore wrestler, but a man who can sell a match as if his life were on the line every night. A guy who's promose tugged at your heart, and either made you love him or hate him. A guy who's wrestling was just as good as his promos, which overall makes him one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

No, no.... Terry Funk is a Hardcore Wrestler. I've made my stance clear. Has Terry Funk, "The Hardcore Wrestler", hurt his legacy?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Tenta, I think you killed your own thread with your post, because your post is just so spot on.

Yes, Funk's legacy is permanently damaged because of his last 10-15 years. I wasn't really aware of Funk's pre-ECW / pre-late WCW-WWF resume until I came onto this forum and was forced to do some research (ironically as a result of the WZ tournament a few years back when XFear and a few others got Funker to the final 4) and learned just how amazing and expansive his resume truly was.

And all the hardcore shit killed his legacy for this generation of fans.

I compare Funk and his end in the business to Andre the Giant. Something that drives me up the wall is how many current fans hold Andre's speed against him because all they remember was the lumbering monster from Wrestlemania 3-6. "Andre's slot. He's shit. He just headbutts people. He's only over because he was big." It's awful. When people actually look up the work Andre did in the 80's in both the US and Japan, they are so often amazed. But Andre's last years burned a permanent vision on the minds of most 20-something wrestling fans, and Funk is the victim of the same problem.

 

[Tenta]

I compare Funk and his end in the business to Andre the Giant. Something that drives me up the wall is how many current fans hold Andre's speed against him because all they remember was the lumbering monster from Wrestlemania 3-6. "Andre's slot. He's shit. He just headbutts people. He's only over because he was big." It's awful. When people actually look up the work Andre did in the 80's in both the US and Japan, they are so often amazed. But Andre's last years burned a permanent vision on the minds of most 20-something wrestling fans, and Funk is the victim of the same problem.

I think the comparison is perfect. Furthermore, I also would like to ask people if this is the case of Vince McMahon killing what he didn't create. He created neither Andre nor Terry Funk. Yet, these two are portrayed, particularly by Vince's programming and by WWE 24/7, as these old coots who were outdated, and lived beyond their service to wrestling. Both cases are absolute bullshit, but Vince still fucking did it, because he couldn't create them. Same goes to Harley Race, and how he was treated. He was really a glorified jobbber, and instead of being one of the hottest draws in wrestling, he's remembered as really more of a footnote to Ric Flair's history.

I guess I should word the question better; Did Vince McMahon bury Terry Funk by what he did to him, expressed in my ealier post?

 

[The Gr8 1 SLASH]

I agree with both of you so far about Terry Funk's legacy. He will be remembered for his hardcore matches and not most of the legit ones. He fought some very heavy hitters that I can remember - Flair, Briscoe, Race, and I believe he did some stuff with Steamboat as well.

Did Vince McMahon bury Terry Funk by what he did to him, expressed in my ealier post?

Yes. Chainsaw Charlie.... that's all I have to say. And he jobbed to the New Age Outlaws......

 

[IrishCanadian25]

As opposed to Harley Race, Tenta, I absolutely do not think the VKM "Create it or Kill it" mantre applies to Funk.

In fact, I blame ECW far more for that, as well as Japan. I know that pointing the dirty finger at ECW and Japan is a recipe to draw permanent ire from the smarks (it's cool, I didn't want the 10% discount to the Warhammer convention anyway), but some of Funk's most memorable hardcore moments were his matches with ECW (against the Sandmans and Ravens of the world) and the C-4 matches in Japan with guys like Cactus Jack.

Vince just continued with what they'd started, and gave him some fair time with his buddy Cactus. It was a "right place, right time" reaction to ECW and WCW, nothing more.

 

[Tenta]

As opposed to Harley Race, Tenta, I absolutely do not think the VKM "Create it or Kill it" mantre applies to Funk.

In fact, I blame ECW far more for that, as well as Japan. I know that pointing the dirty finger at ECW and Japan is a recipe to draw permanent ire from the smarks (it's cool, I didn't want the 10% discount to the Warhammer convention anyway), but some of Funk's most memorable hardcore moments were his matches with ECW (against the Sandmans and Ravens of the world) and the C-4 matches in Japan with guys like Cactus Jack.

Vince just continued with what they'd started, and gave him some fair time with his buddy Cactus. It was a "right place, right time" reaction to ECW and WCW, nothing more.

I guess you have a point, in that really, Funk couldn't do more. However, Vince has all the ways to show the fans that Terry Funk was a great wrestler. He has an extensive library, of which he never uses much NWA material or Jim Crockett material. In fact, Foley did point out that he wanted everyone to know that Funk was a great wrestler, but because McMahon didn't trust him (Read: Vince didn't create him), we have a case of Terry Funk being the old coot again. McMahon has all the resources for someone to know how good Funk was, he just never uses it.

I guess I'm going to have to wait for someone to argue me. As a matter of fact, I'd love for the four names I called out to come into this thread and defend themselves. God knows I like them all, but the statements you find about Terry Funk are just 100% Wrong, plain and simple. I'd love to see one of them defend themselves.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Tenta, since you and I almost 100% agree, I'll make this my final point for the time being in this thread. Yes, you're right about Funk and the library Vince owns, but in all fairness, how marketable would the DVD be? "Terry Funk: What, You Never Knew He Was a Great Wrestler?" It'd bomb. Funk isn't that interesting nor marketable to the target market.

That being said, this WWE / Youtube agreement may potentially solve the problem. And WWE Classic on Demand features some old school stuff. The issue there is that Vince won't force feed it the way he will with guys who are loyal to him, like Steamboat. Fans have to WANT to see Funk's old work, and I doubt enough fans want to do that to make a ripple.

 

[Million Dollar Dream]

yes yes yes yes! I've said this for years that Terry Funk ruined his legacy of being a wrestling star for hardcore wrestling.

Terry Funk was a great wrestler facing Ric Flair, Ricky the Dragon and even Sting back in the NWA days. His heel character did things normal heels did not do, putting a plastic bag and suffocating Ric Flair showed the sadistic side. Terry Funk and The Great Muta together at the clash of the champions was a great moment in wrestling history.

The hardcore stuff showed his willingness to put his body on the line for the business however it also throws away all of his prior accomplishments each time he flaunts his hardcore side. I'm don't hate ECW however I am also not really enthralled with their place in the wrestling world or in the history of wrestling.

 

[vtmikeee]

In response to the question, no Funk's later years do not impact his legacy in my opinion they only add to it. He continued to make himself marketable long after his in-ring days should have been over. I think if you could get today's generation to go back and view some of Funk's old matches they would end up agreeing with me. He did not become NWA champion by accident, and ECW knew what they were doing by giving him a title run he was loved there as well. I think the only thing he hurt by doing this was his body, but his legacy? No chance he added to it in my opinion.

 

[Tastycles]

It's done a shit ton more than left a stigma on his legacy, it has completely replaced it. Funk won the world title, the NWA world title, at a time when you actually had to have legitimate credentials to do so. Nowadays, he's the hardcore icon, the man that Mick Foley looks tame next to, and it has totally erased all that came before in the minds of 90% of the wrestling audience. Truth be told, he is more likely to be noticed as Chainsaw Charlie than he is as the man who held the NWA title for over a year. That being said, he's happy doing what he's doing, so there we go.

 

[KKarvox]

I guess i have to agree that his legacy, and the way most fans remember him has been affected by his last decade or so as a Hardcore Wrestler. However, the same can be said about any wrestler that goes for a long time. If a wrestler goes beyond his prime, people will tend to remember how bad they got, not how good they were.

So, I say if anyone is to blame, it's not Vince, and it's not ECW, but I'd say it's Funk himself. I'm not attacking him in anyway, just saying that if he ended his career earlier, he might be remembered more for his NWA days, and the excellent wrestling there-in, and less for the brutal stuff he had to put himself through to stay relevant all those years.

On the flip side though, i don't think he'd be as well known nowadays if he didn't become the "Hardcore Wrestler", so maybe it was bad for his legacy as a in ring performer, but best for his legacy overall. I'd rather be remembered as a Hardcore Wrestler than not remembered at all.

 

[jmt225]

Absolutely not.

Listen, will Terry Funk be more remembered for what he did in ECW? Perhaps, since THIS generation of wrestling fans got to witness it first hand, but so what? Had Terry not had that run, he would not be anywhere near as known to today's audience as he is. He would have a legacy like Dick the Bruiser, which if you ask me... isn't that great.

Terry Funk in the latter years of his career showed himself as the toughest motherfucker to ever step through those ropes. And not only did he earn people's respect with his toughness, but he entertained the fans every time he performed. The dude had some spectacular matches and promos in the later part of his career. Why is it a shame if he's more remembered for that than a bunch of territory work that hardly anyone will ever see?

So, yeah... I think Funk's legacy improved drastically because of his run in the nineties. A whole new generation of fans got to witness how great of a performer he was first hand, and the fact of the matter is, he gave us some of his best work during that time as well. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Funkster did carrying on his career for as long as he has. He's still alive and healthy today, and he's more than living comfortably. I'm sure soon enough WWE will release a DVD on him and put the guy in their Hall of Fame. And you know what? More people will buy that DVD because of Funk's later work than the shit he did in the sixties and seventies.

 

[Tenta]

Absolutely not.

Not gonna lie... I saw this response last night, and just didn't want to deal with it at the time. Namely because, it is well thought out, and perhaps realistic. That, and I was really fucking tired. Can't forget that.

Listen, will Terry Funk be more remembered for what he did in ECW? Perhaps, since THIS generation of wrestling fans got to witness it first hand, but so what? Had Terry not had that run, he would not be anywhere near as known to today's audience as he is. He would have a legacy like Dick the Bruiser, which if you ask me... isn't that great.

Yeah, you're talking about a guy who had pretty much become obselete to wrestling by 1975. You're also talking about a guy who booked himself as champion of a promotion that in the grand scheme of things, didn't mean much. Not to piss off any marks for the WWA, which I doubt we have at this point, but not only was Dick not half the worker of Terry Funk, he was a shitty promoter, as well. Funk, on the other hand, was tossing out some of his best work over an expanded period of time. Hell, this was a guy that was still working out five star matches by the late eighties. Might he have been wiped from Vince's distorted memory of wrestling? Perhaps, but this was a gy that was part of a respected national company up until 1994, and then went to ECW. So it wasn't like his memory would be the same as someone like Dick The Bruiser. Would he have been Ric Flair? Probably not. I'd have to compare it more to Harley Race, but even then, I still argue he was a better worker than Race in the ring.

Terry Funk in the latter years of his career showed himself as the toughest motherfucker to ever step through those ropes. And not only did he earn people's respect with his toughness, but he entertained the fans every time he performed.

Yeah, but that was already the case by the early 90s. Everyone knew that Terry Funk was tough already by that point, and anyone that didn't... Well, they were probably hard WWE marks. Anyone that didn't know Funk was tough already just doesn't pay attention to the NWA, WCW, USWA, and other such promotions. In short, I don't buy people wouldn't have remembered him as a tough son of a bitch. All they learned was that he could take bumps off barbed wire. To the point that those same people that weren't aware of his work thought that was all he could do. You get what I'm getting at?

The dude had some spectacular matches and promos in the later part of his career. Why is it a shame if he's more remembered for that than a bunch of territory work that hardly anyone will ever see?

Because he had even better work earlier, that everyone forgets because of his work in ECW?

So, yeah... I think Funk's legacy improved drastically because of his run in the nineties. A whole new generation of fans got to witness how great of a performer he was first hand, and the fact of the matter is, he gave us some of his best work during that time as well.

Hm... It depends how far you go back. I feel 1998, when he was given the ECW Title, was a wonderful sight for me. His best work? I respectfully disagree. I just think it's the work that gets mostly remembered, and because he was damn good in what he did, it still made people stand up and notice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean his legacy was going to suffer; it did

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Funkster did carrying on his career for as long as he has. He's still alive and healthy today, and he's more than living comfortably.

He has trouble walking, he wakes up in agony every day, his hips look like he's using a walker... I'm not so sure about that "healthy" thing. From what I've heard, he still suffers plenty of pain, though it is acknowledged that he is alive.

I'm sure soon enough WWE will release a DVD on him and put the guy in their Hall of Fame. And you know what? More people will buy that DVD because of Funk's later work than the shit he did in the sixties and seventies.

You know what's I believe the third best selling DVD in the WWE's vault? That'd be the Four Horsemen. After that is the Flair DVD. The War Games DVD is also up there, as is the Starrcade DVD. There's a market for this kind of stuff, Funk's old work. So I don't buy the notion that it's going to help sells that greatly

 

[jmt225]

Yeah, you're talking about a guy who had pretty much become obselete to wrestling by 1975. You're also talking about a guy who booked himself as champion of a promotion that in the grand scheme of things, didn't mean much. Not to piss off any marks for the WWA, which I doubt we have at this point, but not only was Dick not half the worker of Terry Funk, he was a shitty promoter, as well. Funk, on the other hand, was tossing out some of his best work over an expanded period of time. Hell, this was a guy that was still working out five star matches by the late eighties. Might he have been wiped from Vince's distorted memory of wrestling? Perhaps, but this was a gy that was part of a respected national company up until 1994, and then went to ECW. So it wasn't like his memory would be the same as someone like Dick The Bruiser. Would he have been Ric Flair? Probably not. I'd have to compare it more to Harley Race, but even then, I still argue he was a better worker than Race in the ring.

I don't know, man, I was trying to think of an irrelevant wrestler today that was popular way back when, and he was just the first that came to mind, lol.

And while I agree that Funk was a MUCH better work than Bruiser, I still don't believe he'd be more remembered than someone like him had he not have that run in the nineties.

Yeah, but that was already the case by the early 90s. Everyone knew that Terry Funk was tough already by that point, and anyone that didn't... Well, they were probably hard WWE marks. Anyone that didn't know Funk was tough already just doesn't pay attention to the NWA, WCW, USWA, and other such promotions. In short, I don't buy people wouldn't have remembered him as a tough son of a bitch. All they learned was that he could take bumps off barbed wire. To the point that those same people that weren't aware of his work thought that was all he could do. You get what I'm getting at?

Let's say Funk's last important match was the "I Quit" Ric Flair match... THAT is what Funk would be remembered for, and that would be only because of the releases it has had on WWE DVD, and Meltzer's 5 star rating. But nobody would recognize him for anything else. His run in the WWF sucked (though he did cut one funny ass promo on Hogan that I remember), and everything before then... it's just hard to get your hands on it.

Because he had even better work earlier, that everyone forgets because of his work in ECW?

Well, "better" or not is subjective, first of all. Secondly, I'm saying because of Funk's later work, his earlier work gets more recognition than it would have if Funk didn't have the run he had in the nineties.

Hm... It depends how far you go back. I feel 1998, when he was given the ECW Title, was a wonderful sight for me. His best work? I respectfully disagree. I just think it's the work that gets mostly remembered, and because he was damn good in what he did, it still made people stand up and notice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean his legacy was going to suffer; it did

His best work is obviously the Flair match, without a doubt. But what's incredible about his work in ECW and in Japan is that it was ground breaking stuff, as in stuff we've never seen before, and it was coming from a man over the age of 50. That's truly incredible when you think about it.

Also, think about this, Tenta... without Terry Funk working in the nineties, would there have been an ECW? Hmmm... now do you see how important that last run of his was? Paul Heyman has said countless times that without Terry Funk, there would have been no ECW. Without ECW, how different is the business today?

Shit man, now that I think about it... Terry Funk has to be considered one of the most important figures in professional wrestling history. He belongs up there with the lights of Hogan, Austin, etc. when you think about that last statement. And it all comes back to him working in the nineties. It was that work that makes him such an important figure to this business' history.

He has trouble walking, he wakes up in agony every day, his hips look like he's using a walker... I'm not so sure about that "healthy" thing. From what I've heard, he still suffers plenty of pain, though it is acknowledged that he is alive.

That would have happened to him anyway, man, as it does to most in the business who worked the territories and live to that age.

Besides, Funk was having all those problems in 1995, and he still did what he did. Do you not see why I consider that run so fucking awesome now? I mean, Funk was a beaten up old man, going out there and out performing the young guys, who were actually talented. That's apart of his legacy, and I think people should cherish it, not look down on it.

You know what's I believe the third best selling DVD in the WWE's vault? That'd be the Four Horsemen. After that is the Flair DVD. The War Games DVD is also up there, as is the Starrcade DVD. There's a market for this kind of stuff, Funk's old work. So I don't buy the notion that it's going to help sells that greatly

Would The Four Horsemen DVD be the third best selling DVD in the WWE's vault if Flair never went to WWE after WCW folded? You and I both know the answer to that is no, man.

 

[Tenta]

I don't know, man, I was trying to think of an irrelevant wrestler today that was popular way back when, and he was just the first that came to mind, lol.

And while I agree that Funk was a MUCH better work than Bruiser, I still don't believe he'd be more remembered than someone like him had he not have that run in the nineties.

I see where you're coming from man, and again, respectfully disagree. Harley Race gets remembered fondly and often, not just by those in the know, but even by the WWE at times. Yes, they did bury Harley, much like they buried Terry in the WWE (more on that later). Harley is brought up by Triple H as one of the people that inspire him, Jim Ross referenced numerous times when Trips pathetically attempted to lice up to his legacy. A life for Funk like that is pretty forseeable.

Let's say Funk's last important match was the "I Quit" Ric Flair match... THAT is what Funk would be remembered for, and that would be only because of the releases it has had on WWE DVD, and Meltzer's 5 star rating.

We may disagree, but yeah, that was his best work to me. And even then, we have plenty of WCW fans that remember it, plenty of people who, while may be in the minority, know plenty about The Funker. The problem is, that minoirty is overshadowed by those that remember his inferior, more weapon based offense, and brand him as a "hardcore wrestler".

I guess, I should also point out there will be those that view "hardcore wrestling" as a lesser form. That ain't you and men, but look at the names. How many people really did think Orton was a better worker, JMT? All because of his work in ECW, and it leaves a mark on his legacy.

But nobody would recognize him for anything else. His run in the WWF sucked (though he did cut one funny ass promo on Hogan that I remember), and everything before then... it's just hard to get your hands on it.

Well, yeah, Vince didn't allow Terry to be Terry, man. You an I both know that.

Well, "better" or not is subjective, first of all. Secondly, I'm saying because of Funk's later work, his earlier work gets more recognition than it would have if Funk didn't have the run he had in the nineties.

First point is fair. Second point... Not so much. The problem is, no one does remember him for his early work, because of the Hardcore stuff. That's more my anger, and I can already guess where this is going; blame the fans, not the WWE, or ECW. Which I agree with, but having said that, I still feel it does him a disservice to peg him by his hardcore work.

His best work is obviously the Flair match, without a doubt. But what's incredible about his work in ECW and in Japan is that it was ground breaking stuff, as in stuff we've never seen before, and it was coming from a man over the age of 50. That's truly incredible when you think about it.

Also, think about this, Tenta... without Terry Funk working in the nineties, would there have been an ECW? Hmmm... now do you see how important that last run of his was? Paul Heyman has said countless times that without Terry Funk, there would have been no ECW. Without ECW, how different is the business today?

Shit man, now that I think about it... Terry Funk has to be considered one of the most important figures in professional wrestling history. He belongs up there with the lights of Hogan, Austin, etc. when you think about that last statement. And it all comes back to him working in the nineties. It was that work that makes him such an important figure to this business' history.

I'm gonna lump this all together, because it's your best point here, and has fantastic merit. Would ECW have existed? I believe Paul was waxing poetic there. Yes, Funk was important, but I wouldn't say he was the reason ECW existed. Personally, I put the responsibility there on The good workers Paul signed, and Tommy and Raven's feud, which carried ECW in it's 1995 days, and was the best feud in wrestling at that time. Hell, it still may be.

That said, yes, he does belong in those names, and no one puts him there. Why? Because he's a "hardcore" wrestler. And I know, I know.... Blame the fans. I still think there should be emphasis placed on reviving the legend of the old days, not just rewriting it because you don't create it. Right, Vince?

That would have happened to him anyway, man, as it does to most in the business who worked the territories and live to that age.

Besides, Funk was having all those problems in 1995, and he still did what he did. Do you not see why I consider that run so fucking awesome now? I mean, Funk was a beaten up old man, going out there and out performing the young guys, who were actually talented. That's apart of his legacy, and I think people should cherish it, not look down on it.

I get it, and I agree, that made him look awesome. There's going to be those who don't get that context. See; my calling out of the aforementioned four in my first post.

Would The Four Horsemen DVD be the third best selling DVD in the WWE's vault if Flair never went to WWE after WCW folded? You and I both know the answer to that is no, man.

Yes,yes, I'm aware. Vince controls the world of wrestling, and I get that. But again, if Funk could do all of that other stuff, he could probably have wrestled better than Flair. You know, there's a new thread somewhere there...

Ahem, but no. Vince didn't create it, so he'll re-cast him a new way; a hardcore wrestler, in which everyone forgets how he used to be. I would never try to discredit his ECW run. Just Vince, for the way he re-branded Terry Funk

 

[jmt225]

I see where you're coming from man, and again, respectfully disagree. Harley Race gets remembered fondly and often, not just by those in the know, but even by the WWE at times. Yes, they did bury Harley, much like they buried Terry in the WWE (more on that later). Harley is brought up by Triple H as one of the people that inspire him, Jim Ross referenced numerous times when Trips pathetically attempted to lice up to his legacy. A life for Funk like that is pretty forseeable.

I don't think Race would have ended up getting that recognition though without HHH's nuthuggery and Flair's DVDs.

Funk would have never gotten either, even if he didn't do the hardcore stuff, because the fact is... his run in the sixties, seventies, and eighties is all wrapped around one match: I Quit.

Funk had one run with the NWA Title... how much footage of that have we seen, Tenta? Not much, because much of it wasn't put on camera, where a lot of Race's work was caught on camera, since he had the belt as many times as he did and since he worked for larger territories.

We may disagree, but yeah, that was his best work to me. And even then, we have plenty of WCW fans that remember it, plenty of people who, while may be in the minority, know plenty about The Funker. The problem is, that minoirty is overshadowed by those that remember his inferior, more weapon based offense, and brand him as a "hardcore wrestler".

Fair enough. But I guess I'm just not in the same light as you as looking down on those fans, because I do understand their admiration for what Terry was able to pull off during the "hardcore" days.

I guess, I should also point out there will be those that view "hardcore wrestling" as a lesser form. That ain't you and men, but look at the names. How many people really did think Orton was a better worker, JMT? All because of his work in ECW, and it leaves a mark on his legacy.

That's true.

But even those who say that about Orton.. those assholes didn't even witness Funk's hardcore stuff, let's be honest. They didn't start watching wrestling until 2002, at the very earliest.

Well, yeah, Vince didn't allow Terry to be Terry, man. You an I both know that.

Oh, I know. I'm just including that in my argument to show that Funk's true shot at a run on national television before the Flair feud and hardcore stuff... he wasn't used properly.

Second point... Not so much. The problem is, no one does remember him for his early work, because of the Hardcore stuff. That's more my anger, and I can already guess where this is going; blame the fans, not the WWE, or ECW. Which I agree with, but having said that, I still feel it does him a disservice to peg him by his hardcore work.

But I believe if it wasn't for the hardcore stuff, his early worked would still only be remembered by a limited few. The same few that remember it right now. It really wouldn't change anything.

However, the fact that he did do the hardcore stuff and did it so awesomely, that makes him remembered by a whole new generation of fans. Sure, you can be disappointed that those fans will never seek out Funk's early work, but at the same time.. you should be happy that Funk was able to make himself as well-known to today's audience as he has.

I'm gonna lump this all together, because it's your best point here, and has fantastic merit. Would ECW have existed? I believe Paul was waxing poetic there. Yes, Funk was important, but I wouldn't say he was the reason ECW existed. Personally, I put the responsibility there on The good workers Paul signed, and Tommy and Raven's feud, which carried ECW in it's 1995 days, and was the best feud in wrestling at that time. Hell, it still may be.

I have to disagree, man. Funk was the reason people went to the early ECW shows. Without Funk being there, then ECW doesn't last to bring in Paul Heyman, for Heyman to create Dreamer vs. Raven. I agree that that feud (plus Raven's feud with Sandman) is ultimately what got ECW to its peak, but if it wasn't for Terry Funk being there at the very beginning, then ECW would have never gotten the opportunity to do all the things they winded up doing.

That said, yes, he does belong in those names, and no one puts him there. Why? Because he's a "hardcore" wrestler. And I know, I know.... Blame the fans. I still think there should be emphasis placed on reviving the legend of the old days, not just rewriting it because you don't create it. Right, Vince?

Meh, I disagree, man. If the hardcore stuff never existed, then Funk wouldn't be listed with those names by ANYONE (nor should he, imo). However, because of his later work and what he was able to accomplish... then yeah, NOW he does belong with those names, and people like you and I (plus a good number of others out there) recognize it.

Yes,yes, I'm aware. Vince controls the world of wrestling, and I get that. But again, if Funk could do all of that other stuff, he could probably have wrestled better than Flair. You know, there's a new thread somewhere there...

Hmmm... that could be true. Funk did do some great stuff in the early nineties with WCW.

Ahem, but no. Vince didn't create it, so he'll re-cast him a new way; a hardcore wrestler, in which everyone forgets how he used to be. I would never try to discredit his ECW run. Just Vince, for the way he re-branded Terry Funk

I don't know, man. If Funk ever gets a DVD, or gets inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, I think they will give his earlier work justice. That might be blind faith, but you never know.