As many people know the midcard and lowcard matches in the wwe are below par at the moment and many fans lack interest into the feuds. To strengthen the feuds between the cruiserweights and the light heavyweights or even heavyweights, would you rather see the Hardcore title used again? Or the cruiserweight?
Hardcore or Cruiserweight?
- Thread starter 8kcht3
- Start date
xoxo French Kiss xoxo
Pourquoi?
Neither they were both removed for a reason and there is no reason to bring them back.
Hard Core wrestling is overrated. There is no blood in the WWE now, and the rare chance that we see a Chair Shot, or sledge hammer, or any thing of that nature its actually sort of interesting because you don't see it all the time.
People bitch enough about how week the US/IC/Tag title divisions are now, and you want to add another title to that mix? No thanks. The Tag Division has been shit, for years, and every it looks like it may recover its pushed aside. The US and IC title divisions have no real depth at this point in time. Hell Santino was thrown into a US Title match on Monday vs Swagger and won, without any build up whatsoever.
They should fix what they already have before trying to add anything else.
Hard Core wrestling is overrated. There is no blood in the WWE now, and the rare chance that we see a Chair Shot, or sledge hammer, or any thing of that nature its actually sort of interesting because you don't see it all the time.
People bitch enough about how week the US/IC/Tag title divisions are now, and you want to add another title to that mix? No thanks. The Tag Division has been shit, for years, and every it looks like it may recover its pushed aside. The US and IC title divisions have no real depth at this point in time. Hell Santino was thrown into a US Title match on Monday vs Swagger and won, without any build up whatsoever.
They should fix what they already have before trying to add anything else.
slice_of_life
Pre-Show Stalwart
I think the solution is actually less belts. Unify the brands. Unify the world titles and US/IC title. It would place greater value on the belts and bring back good grudge matches that aren't centered on a title.
OneTooManyPunts
Pre-Show Stalwart
I'm not a fan of introducing new belts into the WWE at this point, but to go along wit the thread, I'd have to pick Cruiserweight if I were to pick on. With the talk of WWE possibly being interested in a cruiserweight show for their network, it could at least have a chance at re-emerging at some point.
The Hardcore Championship though, has always been the red headed step child of WWE's titles. It was good when they first introduced it, but it quickly more a tool for comedy than anything. Add to that the fact that PG and Hardcore don't exactly blend well, and you have a title that isn't coming back any time soon.
Plus, what is really the point of introducing another title, regardless of how much lower or midcard talent is out there, when the US and Intercontinental Championships mean nothing of value in the midcard as it is already. WWE needs to make ALL of their titles means something before considering making even more to devalue in the long run.
The Hardcore Championship though, has always been the red headed step child of WWE's titles. It was good when they first introduced it, but it quickly more a tool for comedy than anything. Add to that the fact that PG and Hardcore don't exactly blend well, and you have a title that isn't coming back any time soon.
Plus, what is really the point of introducing another title, regardless of how much lower or midcard talent is out there, when the US and Intercontinental Championships mean nothing of value in the midcard as it is already. WWE needs to make ALL of their titles means something before considering making even more to devalue in the long run.
The Hardcore title and Era has been used up and is a dying breed. The more nostalgic matches of that era have come and gone, and like mentioned above it's rare when hardcore hits, chair shots, tables.. god forbid BLOOD.
I would rather see a much more steeper move in Cruiserweight. It will open the door to A LOT of guys who work hard. There's a ton of great wrestling to be had when you don't put 2 giant tanks in a ring to rumble, not to say that can't be entertaining.
Eager for Mania, hope it's not a let down!
I would rather see a much more steeper move in Cruiserweight. It will open the door to A LOT of guys who work hard. There's a ton of great wrestling to be had when you don't put 2 giant tanks in a ring to rumble, not to say that can't be entertaining.
Eager for Mania, hope it's not a let down!
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
Neither. Hardcore matches are cheap pops for guys without talent. "I can't make you give a shit about me suplexing the guy, so fuck it, BAM chairshot" "oooooo" says the crowd.
Cruiserweights are seen as the minor leagues. You are putting a restriction on them and placing them lower on the card and only against each other. You are basically saying "they aren't good enough to go against the big boys". If you know ANYTHING about attendance, you know that there is a strong correlation between similar competition with attendance (as in, people want close games, close matches, etc) and there is also a strong correlation between perceived competition level and attendance (as in, Major League Baseball draws more than Minor League Baseball). Having the cruiserweight title is basically saying "this is a minor league match".
Not only all that, but everyone knows it's fake. Having it for a title doesn't add much unless it's the WWE strap. It's why Rhodes has been an amazing IC champ. Who gives a fuck that he doesn't have a ton of defenses, he puts the belt and the idea of being champion over and makes it seem like something he values and something that should be sought after.
Which brings me to my final point. It's CHARACTERS that make it interesting. Not "long feuds" or "matches for belts".
someone should explain to me how a cruiser division will open up doors. having your character placed in what the crowd will see as a minor league match does nothing for you. Much less, you are using up TV time that could be used for someone more over but you have to have the arbitrary "small guy" match. Not only THAT but why restrict it at all? Ziggler vs Show is damn entertaining because Ziggler sells the fuck out of everything. Why limit either side?
Cruiserweights are seen as the minor leagues. You are putting a restriction on them and placing them lower on the card and only against each other. You are basically saying "they aren't good enough to go against the big boys". If you know ANYTHING about attendance, you know that there is a strong correlation between similar competition with attendance (as in, people want close games, close matches, etc) and there is also a strong correlation between perceived competition level and attendance (as in, Major League Baseball draws more than Minor League Baseball). Having the cruiserweight title is basically saying "this is a minor league match".
Not only all that, but everyone knows it's fake. Having it for a title doesn't add much unless it's the WWE strap. It's why Rhodes has been an amazing IC champ. Who gives a fuck that he doesn't have a ton of defenses, he puts the belt and the idea of being champion over and makes it seem like something he values and something that should be sought after.
Which brings me to my final point. It's CHARACTERS that make it interesting. Not "long feuds" or "matches for belts".
someone should explain to me how a cruiser division will open up doors. having your character placed in what the crowd will see as a minor league match does nothing for you. Much less, you are using up TV time that could be used for someone more over but you have to have the arbitrary "small guy" match. Not only THAT but why restrict it at all? Ziggler vs Show is damn entertaining because Ziggler sells the fuck out of everything. Why limit either side?
Actually what I would like to see is to get rid of the World Heavyweight Championship and replace it with a "World Cruiserweight Championship" to be carried by smaller main event level guys like Rhodes, Miz, Ziggler, Bryan, etc. They would treat the cruiserweight belt as World Title, similar to MMA or Boxing titles.
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
Why on earth would you put that restriction on it? Like I said above, it makes it seem like the minor leagues. Not only that, but you restrict your feuds (and potentially, the draw of the match). Your best supporting point is that it would be a "world title similar to MMA or boxing" however that's irrelevant because nobody in their right mind considers pro wrestling a legit sporting event. So they dont' see it as that, they see it as entertainment. If they wanted to see a sporting event with a ton of regulation and stipulations and rules and not as much emotion or drama, they'd go watch MMA or boxing. Pro wrestling is and always has been sold on emotion and drama. Back in the 1800s in carnivals it was sold on the idea that the local boy could beat the unbeatable traveling wrestler. In the 70s it was sold on Bruno sammartino fighting for every italian immigrant in New York. In the 80s it was sold on prayers, stero....vitamins, and training. In the 90s it was sold on whoopin your bosses ass for every blue collar worker, today it's sold on standing up for what you believe in and hustle, loyalty, and respect.
King Michéal
Dark Match Jobber
I think the cruiserweight title would serve a purpose right now. Guys like Gabriel, Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, Hunico, Primo, even Daniel Bryan when he drops down from main event (which will happen) would be a pretty solid division. Keep the title exclusive to Smackdown and feature all these guys on the "wrestling" show.
I have no issue with the of the amount of titles in the WWE right now, but I think the shows need more direction. Feature the Tag Titles, IC Title and WWE Title on Raw. Cruiserweight Title, US Title and World Heavyweight title on Smackdown. Guys can jump shows and chase different titles, but the titles are exclusive to that brand.
I have no issue with the of the amount of titles in the WWE right now, but I think the shows need more direction. Feature the Tag Titles, IC Title and WWE Title on Raw. Cruiserweight Title, US Title and World Heavyweight title on Smackdown. Guys can jump shows and chase different titles, but the titles are exclusive to that brand.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Neither needs to be brought back. Let's be honest, neither of these titles will do anything to help the undercard and I think everyone here knows it. The few that advocate the return of these titles just want them back simply because they want them back.
In mainstream pro wrestling, hardcore matches are pretty much dead and there are good reason for that. It takes so little skill to be a "hardcore wrestle" that pretty much anyone can do it as long as they're physically tough. No holds barred, no DQ, or whatever you want to call them are fun to watch as a novelty now and again, but the novelty wears off after a while if they're too frequent. After the 24/7 rule went into effect, the WWE Hardcore Championship became a running joke. It's just hard for me to look at a title that changed hands well over 200 times in the 3.5 years it existed as coveted or prestigious.
As for the Cruiserweight Championship, again, why? Weight divisions might work in Mexico or Japan but they don't sit well among American wrestling fans as a whole. To me, and a lot of others, you're saying that the little guys can't hang with the big guys and have to have their own special division where they don't have to worry about facing the big guys. For a long while, a lot of internet fans have inaccurately said WWE favors "big men". Many of those same fans will now complain when someone that's definitely on the smaller side gets a big push in WWE. Wrestling has changed in the sense that fans care more about the actual ability of the wrestler rather than his size. If you look at the WWE roster, many of the tops guys in terms of talent and/or popularity with fans lie in the 200 to 225 pound range. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Christian, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, The Miz, Kofi Kingston, Santino Marella, Hunico and a few others all fall within that range. Many of the "bigger" guys aren't much heavier. Orton is in the 230s, Drew McIntyre is probably in the lower to mid 240s, Wade Barrett is only about 245, Cena's around 245 and looks heavier due to him having a stockier build. He might be at the 250 mark but no heavier than that. In the WWE, guys who are legitimately significantly heavier than 250 include Sheamus, Brodus Clay, Mason Ryan, Mark Henry, Big Show and Ezekiel Jackson. Plus, when you look at FCW and some of the more talked about talent, such as Seth Rollins for instance, are also well within that 200 to 225 pound range. As I said earlier, wrestling has changed and a lot of the better talent out there and currently coming up through the ranks are guys that are in that weight range.
I'd be more inclined to get behind creating an undercard title for the guys that are at the lower end of the rung. Something like...I dunno.....WWE NXT Championship or something along those lines. Now that NXT is basically a brand and regularly features guys on the undercard, it could potentially add something meaningful to some of those feuds.
In mainstream pro wrestling, hardcore matches are pretty much dead and there are good reason for that. It takes so little skill to be a "hardcore wrestle" that pretty much anyone can do it as long as they're physically tough. No holds barred, no DQ, or whatever you want to call them are fun to watch as a novelty now and again, but the novelty wears off after a while if they're too frequent. After the 24/7 rule went into effect, the WWE Hardcore Championship became a running joke. It's just hard for me to look at a title that changed hands well over 200 times in the 3.5 years it existed as coveted or prestigious.
As for the Cruiserweight Championship, again, why? Weight divisions might work in Mexico or Japan but they don't sit well among American wrestling fans as a whole. To me, and a lot of others, you're saying that the little guys can't hang with the big guys and have to have their own special division where they don't have to worry about facing the big guys. For a long while, a lot of internet fans have inaccurately said WWE favors "big men". Many of those same fans will now complain when someone that's definitely on the smaller side gets a big push in WWE. Wrestling has changed in the sense that fans care more about the actual ability of the wrestler rather than his size. If you look at the WWE roster, many of the tops guys in terms of talent and/or popularity with fans lie in the 200 to 225 pound range. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Christian, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, The Miz, Kofi Kingston, Santino Marella, Hunico and a few others all fall within that range. Many of the "bigger" guys aren't much heavier. Orton is in the 230s, Drew McIntyre is probably in the lower to mid 240s, Wade Barrett is only about 245, Cena's around 245 and looks heavier due to him having a stockier build. He might be at the 250 mark but no heavier than that. In the WWE, guys who are legitimately significantly heavier than 250 include Sheamus, Brodus Clay, Mason Ryan, Mark Henry, Big Show and Ezekiel Jackson. Plus, when you look at FCW and some of the more talked about talent, such as Seth Rollins for instance, are also well within that 200 to 225 pound range. As I said earlier, wrestling has changed and a lot of the better talent out there and currently coming up through the ranks are guys that are in that weight range.
I'd be more inclined to get behind creating an undercard title for the guys that are at the lower end of the rung. Something like...I dunno.....WWE NXT Championship or something along those lines. Now that NXT is basically a brand and regularly features guys on the undercard, it could potentially add something meaningful to some of those feuds.
Cats Pajamas
Serenity now!!!
Do I want to see a Hardcore Championship in WWE? No. I don’t like Hardcore wrestling; I tried watching about 8 minutes of old ECW clips again on YouTube and I couldn’t get through it, even with the beer drinking. I won’t say that Hardcore wrestling doesn’t present itself as its own novelty act; this viewer has grown apart from it is all. The titles didn’t mean diddly to me, either, partly because of the 24/7 rule, partly because it didn’t showcase wrestling as much as it showcased thuggery. All that fit perfectly well into a different time period, but by the time Heyman put weapons in an Elimination Chamber I was well over it.
That’s just my opinion though. If you opened a window a draft would probably take it because it carries no weight. On the other hand, as an avid pro wrasslin’ fan, I love X-Division matches and a lot of wrestling south of the Rio Grande because of its high-flying antics and moves that you can only see from pro wrestling. So…
Would I like to see a Cruiserweight Championship? Damn straight! I know how well the U.S. takes to Cruiserweight wrestling, but I don’t care about what everyone else thinks! I don’t think of it as “smaller guys can’t come into the big guys playground”; I think of it as “big guys have no business in Cruiserweight territory”. You’re too big, Sheamus, go after your own damn title. Mysterio and D-Bry could battle it out for the best in their class! If they still want to intermingle, even for Championships, I could suffice to see that in Tag Team wrestling.
Make my WWE a potluck of amazing wrestling styles from around the globe! Then tell me who the best of each class is! There’s plenty of more compact wrestlers who could make the Cruiserweight title interesting to me… People cheer for whoever they want despite who has the titles anyway. Work hard, drink Pepsi, say “no” to drugs and until next time, best regards wrestling fans.
That’s just my opinion though. If you opened a window a draft would probably take it because it carries no weight. On the other hand, as an avid pro wrasslin’ fan, I love X-Division matches and a lot of wrestling south of the Rio Grande because of its high-flying antics and moves that you can only see from pro wrestling. So…
Would I like to see a Cruiserweight Championship? Damn straight! I know how well the U.S. takes to Cruiserweight wrestling, but I don’t care about what everyone else thinks! I don’t think of it as “smaller guys can’t come into the big guys playground”; I think of it as “big guys have no business in Cruiserweight territory”. You’re too big, Sheamus, go after your own damn title. Mysterio and D-Bry could battle it out for the best in their class! If they still want to intermingle, even for Championships, I could suffice to see that in Tag Team wrestling.
Make my WWE a potluck of amazing wrestling styles from around the globe! Then tell me who the best of each class is! There’s plenty of more compact wrestlers who could make the Cruiserweight title interesting to me… People cheer for whoever they want despite who has the titles anyway. Work hard, drink Pepsi, say “no” to drugs and until next time, best regards wrestling fans.
DeathClutch
HaRDcOrE ChAMpiOn
Hardcore all the way, it's been proven you don't need blood for hardcore matches; which also opens the door for anyone on the roster to take part in, Cruiser keeps the belt restricted to x amount of guys, where-as the Hardcore title could involve anyone and everyone, just cease the 24/7 rule and only use the 10-15 minute open rule where anyone can win the belt in x match within a certain time period whoever is the winner at the end is the hardcore champion.
I could see the argument of neither title needed or being brought back but to answer op's question i say cruiserweight and I legit believe it should be brought back. It brings a little more depth to the division and to ppv cards. I for one would love to see a Yoshi Tatsu vs. Tyson Kidd on a ppv card. A Sin Cara vs. Rey Mesterio would be nice to see. In most cases a bout like this is far more entertaining than The Miz, Daniel Bryan or any other Main Event champion. Also in cruiserweight bouts the match ups tend to be more, "I dont know who will win this one!" Where as every single match listed for this years Wrestlemania, I can easily (as should you all) be able to pick who will win.
FightOwensFight
Formerly Global Conquest
To answer the OP I would prefer the Cruiserweight Titlefor no other reason than the Hardcore title as no place in today's WWE. That being said, I agree with the majority here in that neither should come back. As TWJC pointed out, Rhodes' IC title reign has been very good for no other reason than he cares about the belt. I have been saying this for over a year. The US and IC Title scene would be much better if the people involved in them were actually striving to win the belts, not just use them as a springboard to ME status.
I'd rather see the Cruiserweight Championship come back instead of the Hardcore Championship. Granted, a lot of the smaller guys in recent years have been going for either their brand's midcard title or the tag team titles instead, but back when they had the Cruiserweight Championship it gave them something to fight for that was geared more toward them. The midcard titles are better for guys who may be moving up the card to see how they will be like as champion, so they can be elevated. Even though I am ok with it not returning (it probably never will) it could be useful if it did return. The Hardcore title on the other hand....
The Hardcore Championship has absolutely no reason to come back whatsoever. First of all, it became a total joke once the 24/7 rule was put in place. You could see that title change hands multiple times on the same show. Where's the prestige in that? Secondly, hardcore matches are so rare today in WWE. Without blood and weapons why have them? I mean maybe at shows like Hell In a Cell or TLC this belt could have been a point to focus on, but that's less than 1/4 of WWE's PPV lineup. That title would be worthless in today's product. The Cruiserweight Championship is no longer needed anymore either, really. I'd rather see it come back between the two though, as it could still serve a purpose today whereas the Hardcore title is useless in the PG era.
The Hardcore Championship has absolutely no reason to come back whatsoever. First of all, it became a total joke once the 24/7 rule was put in place. You could see that title change hands multiple times on the same show. Where's the prestige in that? Secondly, hardcore matches are so rare today in WWE. Without blood and weapons why have them? I mean maybe at shows like Hell In a Cell or TLC this belt could have been a point to focus on, but that's less than 1/4 of WWE's PPV lineup. That title would be worthless in today's product. The Cruiserweight Championship is no longer needed anymore either, really. I'd rather see it come back between the two though, as it could still serve a purpose today whereas the Hardcore title is useless in the PG era.
They'd probably get more use out of the Cruiserweight belt. The hardcore belt was a joke title used for comedy segments. The Cruiserweight title would allow for smaller wrestlers to have a title of their own and hopefully not have to serve as cannon-fodder to the hosses.
I would not HATE to see the Cruiserweight title, but I think it holds back some smaller guys that could compete against the big boys.
There is absolutely no reason to bring the Hardcore Championship back. That was brought in to counter ECW's popularity and show that the WWE could be brutal. But with no real competition and a PG rating it would not work at all. As Jack Hammer said ... the title became a joke with the 24/7 rule.
I personally would prefer them bring back something like the European Title. A title clearly not on par with the IC or US titles, but something worth having low card guys try to get a push around.
Just my thoughts though. If they don't add any titles I am more than ok with that as well. Personally ... they need to fix those ugly-ass tag titles before they worry about any other straps in the company.
There is absolutely no reason to bring the Hardcore Championship back. That was brought in to counter ECW's popularity and show that the WWE could be brutal. But with no real competition and a PG rating it would not work at all. As Jack Hammer said ... the title became a joke with the 24/7 rule.
I personally would prefer them bring back something like the European Title. A title clearly not on par with the IC or US titles, but something worth having low card guys try to get a push around.
Just my thoughts though. If they don't add any titles I am more than ok with that as well. Personally ... they need to fix those ugly-ass tag titles before they worry about any other straps in the company.
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