Guns on College Campuses

[IrishCanadian25]

I just found this article, and it's worth the read.

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (CNN) -- The senior at the University of Utah gets dressed and then decides which gun is easiest to conceal under his clothes.

If he's wearing a T-shirt, he'll take a smaller, low-profile gun to class. If he's wearing a coat, he may carry a different weapon, he said.

He started carrying a gun to class after the massacre at Virginia Tech, but the student says he's not part of the problem of campus shootings and could instead be part of a solution.

Nick, who asked not to be fully identified so his fellow students wouldn't know he carried a gun, says he has had a concealed weapons permit for more than three years. But it was Seung-Hui Cho's murderous campus rampage that made him take a gun to class.

"Last year, after Virginia Tech, I thought 'I'm not going to be a victim,' " Nick said.

"My first thought was 'how tragic.' But then I couldn't help but think it could've been different if they'd allowed the students the right to protect themselves."

Days after another campus shooting -- in which five students and the gunman died at Northern Illinois University -- students at colleges in Utah, the only state to allow weapons at all public universities, are attending classes.

Nick says his gun doesn't make him feel immune from attack. "But I feel that I will be able to protect myself, and I'm confident in my training and my ability," he said.

His confidence is not shared by fellow student Griselda Espinoza, who recently transferred to the university. Some 28,000 students attend the school, as of the latest enrollment figures.

"I feel less safe knowing that a stranger sitting beside me in class may have a gun in his or her backpack," she said.

"The only people that should carry guns are trained officials."

University of Utah spokeswoman Coralie Alder stressed that although the school has become a poster child in the media regarding guns on campus, the debate is really a statewide issue.

"The university is following the law as determined by the Utah Legislature during last year's session, which allows concealed weapon permit holders to carry guns on university and colleges campuses, as well as other locations," she said.

Amanda Covington, Utah State Board of Regents spokeswoman, would not comment on the current gun laws on school campuses.

However, she said the regents are opposing a legislative proposal to allow people with concealed weapons permits to have the weapons visible in public.

"We are worried that it may affect their [students' and teachers'] willingness or desire to go to or teach a class on campus," she said.

The University of Utah, based in Salt Lake City, had prohibited firearms on its campus until that ban was struck down by the state's Supreme Court in late 2006. The institution, backed by all other universities in the state, is still fighting through federal courts to reinstate the ban.

But state legislators could be moving in the opposite direction, considering a bill to modify current law to allow people in Utah -- including students -- to carry loaded weapons openly.

Utah State Representative Curtis Oda said the bill, which he is sponsoring, is merely to clarify that people with weapons permits may carry a gun openly or -- with a concealed permit -- they may hide it for the sake of surprise.

He stressed that people with permits have gone through rigorous checks.

"When you see someone with a gun, you are looking at some of the most law-abiding people in the state," he said.

The issue goes beyond campus. Last year, a few miles from the University of Utah, a man walked into Trolley Square, a Salt Lake City shopping mall, and opened fire. Police were there in only three minutes, but the shooter had already killed five people and wounded four others.

"And not just shootings, but [serial killer] Ted Bundy did some of his crimes at the University of Utah campus," said David Seelly, a recent University of Utah graduate who says he carried a concealed gun on campus.

"If one of those ladies was a concealed-weapon holder, she could've stopped him before he did as much as he did."

To get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, people in Utah must, among other things:


Be 21 years old


Have no criminal record of violent, immoral or substance-related crime


Be mentally competent.

Student Kevin Rechtenbach of the University of Utah said he was open to carrying a gun, but not certain that would solve problems.

"If acts of terrorism continue on campus, then I will have no choice but to carry a concealed weapon," he said.

"But you see, that is where the problem lies: Everybody will end up carrying concealed weapons, and everyday problems will be solved with guns rather than words or even fists."

The only places on campus that have restrictions are the dormitories. Students can request a roommate who doesn't carry a gun.

Private colleges in Utah, like the Mormon Church-owned Brigham Young University in Provo, do have more power to ban weapons on campus, but that, too, causes disagreement among students.

"I own some guns, and I wish I was allowed to have them at school," said Collin Barker, a BYU student. "I would just keep [them] in my car for target shooting."

Casey Matheny, from Plano, Texas, now studying at BYU, appeared indifferent to the debate over students carrying guns.

"I don't mind if they have one, I just don't want to know about it," he said.

It blows me away that, in an age where Americans are terrified of their own shadows, nevermind the firearms that are out there, colleges are allowing students to go to class packing. At my college in New Jersey, there was an uproar about the cops carrying firearms! The fucking cops! And Utah is allowing the STUDENTS to pack heat?

I have a real problem with this. I feel that the "gun problem" on college campuses cannot be instantly solved with MORE guns. Just wait until the first "stable" student with a concealed weapon gets an "F" on a paper and decided to convince his or her teacher otherwise.

But I want to know what all of you think about this issue. Concealed guns on college campuses - your thoughts?

 

[Father:_Polley]

ummmm...is that not a licence for another virginia tech incident to happen? i mean all you have to do is say that you're carrying the weapon for your own protection.

i mean it would take bullying to a whole new level if you were allowed guns in school.

i don't understand the american obsession with guns, almost as much as i don't understand the knife culture in the uk. i mean they carry weapons to protect themselves from what? A: other kids carrying weapons

 

[Shocky]

Personally I don't have a problem with it. This is why I would hate to see guns taken away from people that honestly know how to use them correctly. The "bad guys" are still going to find ways to get their hands on guns, knives, explosives, whatever if they are wanting to use them, they will.

I have a buddy that lives in San Antonio, so you could ask Wes for more confirmation, but everyone packs heat in Texas, that's why you don'ts ee a ton of crime. Why commit a crime if you know damn well that someone in the crowd is going to blow your head off?

Since the race riots of 2001 in Cincinnati,the cops have had their hands tied with what they can do with crime on the street. If they arrest or shoot an African American, the AA community automatically goes to the race card. Hell, it's getting to the point where the AA community was getting upset with excessive force with a Tazer. What can people do when the thugs and drugs pushers are carrying guns around, and the cops can't do anything?

People are tired of having the police's arms tied and the bullshit going on, so they legally aquire concealed carry licenses. A prime example was a bar downtown that had been robbed a half dozen times or so. One night a street punk comes in, goes to hold the place up, and is shot by a patron sitting on the other side of the bar, guess what, that place hasn't been robbed since. A guy who owns a shop downtown was robbed, again, numerous times and nothing had come of it. One day, a guy pulled a gun on him, the store owner had something waiting for him, the result...his store hasn't been robbed since.

I have no problem with the 2nd ammendment. I love the fact that people can protect themselves. The guns aren't going to go away. If people take the necessary training procredures and have sufficient training, then i'm all for people carrying guns. A self defense bullet is much better then a judicial slap on the wrist someone is more then likely going to receive.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I am from Minneapolis, and I hate the fact that we have at least one violent crime a weekend. A lot of people made fun of Andrew "Test" Martin's rant on guns, but being from a place where guns are a problem, I agree fully with him.

My favorite part of his rant was when he said if you pull a gun on me, you better kill me. Thats how I feel living here. I train five days a week and I'm in great shape. It would really piss me off if some little punk thinks he's tough shit holding me up with a gun. Test may have ranted a little too hard, but his message was solid- Guns are for *****es.

Guns in any community, wether it is a college, high school, boy/girl scouts, or just the neighborhood you live in are a bad thing. There are no positives to having guns, and trying to solve it by carrying more guns is even worse.

Now, my least favorite thing about Minneapolis, 68% of our crimes are commited by black males. This pisses me off to no end because, my best friend is black and is nearly a 4.0 student at the U of M with no criminal record. Yet, he gets lumped in with all the dumbasses who can't stay out of trouble. We actually confronted a young black man who was at the YMCA talking about how he carries a gun when he's on the streets. His excuse was, its his culture. Said thing is, its true. Guns are part of the American culture and its a huge problem.

 

[Frank the Frowner]

There's two sides to this. I'm a huge supporter of having the right to own a gun. I plan on owning a few in my lifetime not only for hunting, but for security purposes as well.

The pro side:

Like the article stated, if anything horrible should ever happen (even though this was in, come on, Utah), you can at least put up a fight and not be a sitting duck.

A lot of thefts can happen on campus as well. My friends have had LCD TVs stolen, XBox 360s stolen, and laptops stolen. Now, if it was known that the person who lived in the dorm/apartment owned a gun, people would not even bother stealing anything.

Also, a lot of fights can start over stupid shit at schools. Got a gun? That pretty much ends that.

The con side:

Is an explanation even necessary? Yes, you could seem mentally competent to own a gun... let's see what happens when stupid shit takes place when you're drunk, or if you're not really competent, but somehow get a clean bill of mental health. It's another Cho situation waiting to happen.

There's pretty much no need for guns to be owned by college students on campus. I do think that the colleges need to get more rent-a-cops in the study halls, in case anything should happen. The idiot rent-a-cops at my school just ride around on their Segways all day/sit around and do nothing.

 

[NYSandman]

Firstly, I screwed up and voted that it's a good idea. Mouse slipped, so if you can delete my vote, please do.

As someone who has worked in a college for 8 years, this is a bad idea. College kids are stressed and immature, they get into fights over bullshit, and people will just end up shooting the guy who looked at his girl wrong.

However, my campus has no armed security guards. I think all colleges should have armed guards who can blow these sick fucks away at the first sign of a gun.

What is it with all these emotional problems and guns? Jesus, I get pissed everyday. I curse, give dirty looks, and mumble loud enough to inform people I'm pissed, but I'm not THAT pissed that I'm going to blow some innocent, yet annoying, person away!

I do, however, think anyone over the age of 25 who can pass a psych test should be allowed to carry a gun. I really do believe guns are a deterent to crime. Do you really think someone will chance pulling a knife or a gun on someone on the street if they know the guy can shoot back?

As far as colleges, however, I have seen the animals that are on campus, and most of these kids are NOT mature enough to have a gun. I'm not insulting any college kids, most of whom are hard working and decent, but the bad apples do stick out, which is why the age limit should be 25 before you can have a gun. And, you must renew your permit every year.

In closing, let me just say fuck the NRA. They are the ones who take it too far thinking that a serial killer has a perfect right to bear arms.

Oh, and regarding the sig above me. GO SOX! May the Yankees die in flames.