Gimmick matches = Overrated.

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

So, after watching TLC, this thought came back to my mind and really took off. Gimmick matches, especially those that involve weapons, are really overrated. I'm talking mainly about this day and age and matches like chairs match, no-title ladder match, steps-for-god-sake match etc. Not referring as much to HIAC or Steel Cage, even though what I am gonna say involve them too to some extent.

Let's take for example the Steps match with Rowan and Show. First of all, why have a steps match and not a no-dq match? Why should only the steps be allowed to be used? But that's not my point. These gimmicks matches take away all the "wrestling" out of the match. Everyone just goes right away to get the particular match's item and rawrrrr attack. That's stupid. I don't wanna see some ugly brawl with two guys exchanging chair shots or throwing steps to each other. I wanna see a wrestling match that involves some chair shots here and there.

Rarely ever have I seen, on this day and age, a weapons' match that was good. Ziggler vs Harper was good, because it had a lot of dangerous spots and some blood. But still, it didn't have any wrestling. Where were the finishers? The counters? They could have done all those without the excessive use of ladders. Same for Dean vs Bray. Too much showboating, too much time to prepare your next attack with only like 4-5 wrestling moves applied. I understand that these guys hate each other and wanna tear them apart, but I wanna be entertained by seeing them wrestle too.

Steel cage matches, everyone just goes right to climb out (instead of going through the easy way, the door, duh), which is also annoying. Oh, and by the way, if Dean and Wyatt hate each other so much, why does Bray try to roll-up and beat Dean right at the beginning of the match and end it? Doesn't he want to destroy Dean? Dumb, but that's not the point of this thread.

I wanna see a wrestling match in any kind of match. Having a TLC match for no title hanging in the air is stupid, it could just be a no DQ match, but that's not the point either. If there is a Tables match, I wanna see a wrestling match where there are 2-3 good table spots, not a table-spots-only match with 2-3 wrestling spots. It's so stupid. If I see a chairs match, which is stupid already, I wanna see a wrestling match that from the middle on and towards the end, chairs start flying, not to excessivity though. It's wrestling, not some backyard idiots whacking each other with metal, for god's sake.

 

[TheICChampion]

A gimmick match is just an easy way out for creative guys, because they know all they really have to do is involve the weapons and people will think it's a good match, regardless of the quality. It also protects the guys who can't really wrestle, anyway. That being said, if only certain objects were "legal" last night, then why the hell did I see a TV monitor and kendosticks being used?

 

[chuckmdubya]

The talent and wreckless abandonment just isn't around anymore. If there had been a TLC match between Jeff Hardy and Mick Foley, then we would be talking about how awesome it was not how gimmick matches are over rated. The 3 way, full metal mayhem match for the TNA tag titles between the Hardy's, Dudleys, and the Wolves earlier this year was one of the best I've ever seen. There aren't a lot of hardcore style wrestlers left. The modern guys are more concerned with making movies than they are with being hardcore, and are far more protective of their health.

 

[d_henderson1810]

So, after watching TLC, this thought came back to my mind and really took off. Gimmick matches, especially those that involve weapons, are really overrated. I'm talking mainly about this day and age and matches like chairs match, no-title ladder match, steps-for-god-sake match etc. Not referring as much to HIAC or Steel Cage, even though what I am gonna say involve them too to some extent.

Let's take for example the Steps match with Rowan and Show. First of all, why have a steps match and not a no-dq match? Why should only the steps be allowed to be used? But that's not my point. These gimmicks matches take away all the "wrestling" out of the match. Everyone just goes right away to get the particular match's item and rawrrrr attack. That's stupid. I don't wanna see some ugly brawl with two guys exchanging chair shots or throwing steps to each other. I wanna see a wrestling match that involves some chair shots here and there.

Rarely ever have I seen, on this day and age, a weapons' match that was good. Ziggler vs Harper was good, because it had a lot of dangerous spots and some blood. But still, it didn't have any wrestling. Where were the finishers? The counters? They could have done all those without the excessive use of ladders. Same for Dean vs Bray. Too much showboating, too much time to prepare your next attack with only like 4-5 wrestling moves applied. I understand that these guys hate each other and wanna tear them apart, but I wanna be entertained by seeing them wrestle too.

Steel cage matches, everyone just goes right to climb out (instead of going through the easy way, the door, duh), which is also annoying. Oh, and by the way, if Dean and Wyatt hate each other so much, why does Bray try to roll-up and beat Dean right at the beginning of the match and end it? Doesn't he want to destroy Dean? Dumb, but that's not the point of this thread.

I wanna see a wrestling match in any kind of match. Having a TLC match for no title hanging in the air is stupid, it could just be a no DQ match, but that's not the point either. If there is a Tables match, I wanna see a wrestling match where there are 2-3 good table spots, not a table-spots-only match with 2-3 wrestling spots. It's so stupid. If I see a chairs match, which is stupid already, I wanna see a wrestling match that from the middle on and towards the end, chairs start flying, not to excessivity though. It's wrestling, not some backyard idiots whacking each other with metal, for god's sake.

The funny thing is, gimmick matches were virtually all ECW did, and yet many people rave about how great ECW was.

Maybe the reason that ECW didn't last long term was because you don't want to see this on a weekly basis, like ECW used to do.

If you don't like gimmick matches, go watch some ROH or Japan wrestling. But then, look how much money those companies make compared to WWE. That shows what really works or doesn't.

 

[d_henderson1810]

The talent and wreckless abandonment just isn't around anymore. If there had been a TLC match between Jeff Hardy and Mick Foley, then we would be talking about how awesome it was not how gimmick matches are over rated. The 3 way, full metal mayhem match for the TNA tag titles between the Hardy's, Dudleys, and the Wolves earlier this year was one of the best I've ever seen. There aren't a lot of hardcore style wrestlers left. The modern guys are more concerned with making movies than they are with being hardcore, and are far more protective of their health.

Far more protective of their health! How dare they.

How dare wrestlers care about protecting themselves, and their health. No, better to be banged up, addicted to pain killers, and dead at 40, because your health and your dependence on drugs because of it.

How dare people not aspire to be like the Undertaker, whose career is possibly over after getting a concussion and bad back, and having no cartliage in his knees, and needing a hip replacement.

Or Hulk Hogan. I bet he loves needing a hip replacement or back surgery.

Now, this is part and parcel of the game. However, for someone like you, who sits in his fat seat, to criticize wrestlers for not wanting to kill themselves for your enjoyment, is a bit rich.

And to say that it is because they are concerned about a movie career. Maybe they want to be healthy for their family, or they don't like being in constant pain. You probably don't care though. After all, it is all about your entertainment, not whether the guys hurt themselves seriously doing it.

 

[The Captain]

I like gimmick matches and I also hate gimmick matches.

I hate them because they take matches like Cena vs. Rollins and Ziggler vs. Harper where you really want to see two men have a 20 minute wrestling match, and they're fun, but not great.

I like them because they take unwatchable garbage like Big Show vs. Rowan and Ryback vs. Kane and at least add some shock value. It also works when you have two guys like Ambrose and Wyatt who arent technical marvels but know how to tell the story, and get some extra props to help out.

I know its kind of the flavor of the month right now, but I watched the best show ive seen since I got back into wrestling on Thursday night. them guys and girls didnt need gimmick matches and exploding TVs to make it happen. Kevin Owens debut, Balors entrance, Banks and Charlotte laying it out there, Sami Zayn finally winning the title. All those moments did more for me than anything at TLC. I spend my 9.99 on NXT. I get the PPVs for free. Bingo.

 

[LBGetBack]

Agreed. Gimmick violent matches.....that aren't even all that violent these days. Pretty pointless.

When some wild, crazy stuff used to happen it was at least entertaining and shocking(though certainly dumb and unsafe). It's tough to have violent matches that are safe. HIC, TLC, etc.....most of these matches are usually pretty tame and boring these days. Centering PPV's around them doesn't work. It's forced.

A HIC or TLC match should be a very rare thing that only happens when it fits the feud.

 

[LBGetBack]

Far more protective of their health! How dare they.

How dare wrestlers care about protecting themselves, and their health. No, better to be banged up, addicted to pain killers, and dead at 40, because your health and your dependence on drugs because of it.

How dare people not aspire to be like the Undertaker, whose career is possibly over after getting a concussion and bad back, and having no cartliage in his knees, and needing a hip replacement.

Or Hulk Hogan. I bet he loves needing a hip replacement or back surgery.

Now, this is part and parcel of the game. However, for someone like you, who sits in his fat seat, to criticize wrestlers for not wanting to kill themselves for your enjoyment, is a bit rich.

And to say that it is because they are concerned about a movie career. Maybe they want to be healthy for their family, or they don't like being in constant pain. You probably don't care though. After all, it is all about your entertainment, not whether the guys hurt themselves seriously doing it.

Agreedm which is why these matches should be done away with. We already saw all the shocking shit. There was nothing else they could do to shock anyone after awhile, and yeah it was out of hand with the risks these guys were taking.

At the same time, who wants to watch half-assed, safe HIC and TLC matches? Just do away with them and have wrestling matches. They've got a lot of good wrestlers on the roster.

 

[Radical]

I wanna see a wrestling match in any kind of match. Having a TLC match for no title hanging in the air is stupid, it could just be a no DQ match, but that's not the point either. If there is a Tables match, I wanna see a wrestling match where there are 2-3 good table spots, not a table-spots-only match with 2-3 wrestling spots. It's so stupid. If I see a chairs match, which is stupid already, I wanna see a wrestling match that from the middle on and towards the end, chairs start flying, not to excessivity though. It's wrestling, not some backyard idiots whacking each other with metal, for god's sake.

I don't understand where you are coming from.

So, let me get this straight, in a Ladder match or TLC match you want to see the wrestlers primarily doing basic wrestling moves and counters for the MAJORITY of the the match?

You want to see more freakin' arm twists, headlocks, irish-whip sequences, submissions and rest holds in a match that has No Disqualification?? THAT is the stupid part. THAT wouldn't make any sense.

If the wrestlers were doing a bunch of basic wrestling moves for most of the match people would get way more upset that they aren't USING the weapons. What would be the POINT of a Ladder match if you only used it 2 or 3 times? What would be the POINT of a Tables, Ladders and Chairs match if you only used them once each?

I will say, though, that I DO think certain gimmick matches are stupid and overrated. It is really stupid to me when they make a "Chairs" match or a "Stairs" match and it is basically still just a NO DQ match but the wrestlers just only use Chairs or Stairs. That's dumb, because they could use everything else.

I kind of agree that a TLC match without something hanging is also dumb but only in this case with Ambrose and Wyatt it seemed almost appropriate that nothing but deciding 'who was crazier' was on the line.

So, overall, I will say that certain gimmick matches are silly and overrated if they are just blatantly trying to be 'special' even if they aren't really but the notion that a No DQ match should MOSTLY be a wrestling match with basic wrestling holds and very few weapons involved is pretty ridiculous.

I mean, c'mon, if YOU were in a No DQ match would you be wasting time with a bunch of arm twists, headlocks, suplexes, chops and energy wasting irish whips in the ring bouncing back and forth? I'd hope not!

No, most people would do what most of the wrestlers do and that is get a few good shots in, do a few high impact moves like a powerslam, scoop slam, big clothesline, superkick, etc. and then once your opponent is down go get weapons to hurt them more!

Actually, for the wrestlers personal well-being I actually would like to see the pointless gimmick matches reduced to taken away (chairs match, stairs match, etc.) and actually I'd go as far as to say I'd like the TLC PPV to go away because I do think it is making those type of matches less significant and unique and hurting the wrestlers more than it may need to happen. But, that said, if the rivalry and circumstance is right for it like with Harper vs Ziggler and Ambrose vs Wyatt then the gimmick matches are done well by the wrestlers.

SIDEBAR: I say wrestlers, not Superstars because I will NOT be a sheep to Vince and his hilarious idea that his talent are not pro wrestlers and his company is not a pro wrestling company. He's delusional but sometimes does things right.

 

[CalciferBoheme]

Gimmick martches are generally better when there is real build to the, (like Briscoe vs Cole at Final Battle)

But most of the time WWE doesn't add the match to the feud, but they build a feud so that it will fit their gimmick shows. I loved Dolph vs Harper and liked most of the rest of the show, but a lot of it was too much, and too contrived, which is a big problem with doing gimmick matches these days. They plan crazy spots to top previous matches, but when everything looks like a big plan between the guys, it just doesn't work. The stairs wall or the TV spot are good examples (mostly the TV exploding more than a TV would).

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I don't understand where you are coming from.

So, let me get this straight, in a Ladder match or TLC match you want to see the wrestlers primarily doing basic wrestling moves and counters for the MAJORITY of the the match?

You want to see more freakin' arm twists, headlocks, irish-whip sequences, submissions and rest holds in a match that has No Disqualification?? THAT is the stupid part. THAT wouldn't make any sense.

If the wrestlers were doing a bunch of basic wrestling moves for most of the match people would get way more upset that they aren't USING the weapons. What would be the POINT of a Ladder match if you only used it 2 or 3 times? What would be the POINT of a Tables, Ladders and Chairs match if you only used them once each?

I will say, though, that I DO think certain gimmick matches are stupid and overrated. It is really stupid to me when they make a "Chairs" match or a "Stairs" match and it is basically still just a NO DQ match but the wrestlers just only use Chairs or Stairs. That's dumb, because they could use everything else.

I kind of agree that a TLC match without something hanging is also dumb but only in this case with Ambrose and Wyatt it seemed almost appropriate that nothing but deciding 'who was crazier' was on the line.

So, overall, I will say that certain gimmick matches are silly and overrated if they are just blatantly trying to be 'special' even if they aren't really but the notion that a No DQ match should MOSTLY be a wrestling match with basic wrestling holds and very few weapons involved is pretty ridiculous.

I mean, c'mon, if YOU were in a No DQ match would you be wasting time with a bunch of arm twists, headlocks, suplexes, chops and energy wasting irish whips in the ring bouncing back and forth? I'd hope not!

No, most people would do what most of the wrestlers do and that is get a few good shots in, do a few high impact moves like a powerslam, scoop slam, big clothesline, superkick, etc. and then once your opponent is down go get weapons to hurt them more!

Actually, for the wrestlers personal well-being I actually would like to see the pointless gimmick matches reduced to taken away (chairs match, stairs match, etc.) and actually I'd go as far as to say I'd like the TLC PPV to go away because I do think it is making those type of matches less significant and unique and hurting the wrestlers more than it may need to happen. But, that said, if the rivalry and circumstance is right for it like with Harper vs Ziggler and Ambrose vs Wyatt then the gimmick matches are done well by the wrestlers.

SIDEBAR: I say wrestlers, not Superstars because I will NOT be a sheep to Vince and his hilarious idea that his talent are not pro wrestlers and his company is not a pro wrestling company. He's delusional but sometimes does things right.

I see where you are coming from, but the thing is, in this day and age, these matches aren't entertaining, no matter the logic behind using the chair all the time. The matches first of all feel so forced, so using the steps all the time at ROwan vs Show doesn't make much sense. They don't hate each other to that point, not really. Then, as I said, I wanna see a wrestling match with the use of items, not the other way around and if you wanna see those items more, that is why you can have these matches go for 5 minutes more, where you can have those minutes to have item spots. Of course, you will tell me that if every match goes 5 minutes more, then we need 30 minutes more to cover the entire PPV, which is exactly why these matches don't need to happen all in the same PPV.

As other posters said above, these matches aren't even violent enough. Ziggler bled on his forehead and doctors rushed in to stop it, taking away all the energy from the match. BUZZKILL. To me, it isn't exciting have a whole match revolving around a table and how to avoid falling through it. I know it is the objective of the match, but it just isn't entertaining to me. I will askk you a question: If Ziggler and Harper had gone 5 more minutes, using their finishers etc, wouldn't that match be a lot better? They didn't use any finishers, which kinda made me angry because it was just a ladder spotfest, and even though it was highly entertaining, it just didn't feel so right. I don't know, as I said, I wanna see a wrestling match first of all, where from some point on in the match, the wrestlers make use of the weapons (since the feuds aren't really that heated anyway).

 

[Dagger Dias]

Gimmick matches aren't overrated at all. The problem is WWE's booking and how they have grown lazy with the gimmick themed PPV events. Hell In A Cell immediately comes to mind. The ONLY match under that gimmick in recent years that I was genuinely excited about was Undertaker VS Triple H at Wrestlemania 28, and that didn't even take place at the gimmick's monthly PPV home. However, with that being said, the gimmick matches add another layer to a match that bring more potential to it. If every show had nothing but standard 1 VS 1, Tag Team, Triple Threats, and Fatal Fourways, it would get really old really fast. The gimmicks help bring something new and different.

Look at the TLC PPV brand, for example. On the same show you get a Tables match, a Ladder match, a Chairs match, a TLC match, and this year we also got a Stairs match. Was the Stairs Match a bit of a headscratcher? Sure, but it was a heck of a lot better than Show VS Rowan in a standard 1 VS 1 match. I would have hated to see that instead of the Stairs match. The same can be said of the Chairs match involving Ryback and Kane. Good luck in making THAT one interesting without some type of gimmick or stipulation. All of the gimmick match types were a great help this year, while the lack of said gimmicks other than the show's namesake hurt the card from a year ago. Gimmick matches are not over-rated. WWE just needs to book some of them better, especially Hell In A Cell.

 

[LuckyLouie]

No offence but I think fans like you are the reason why wrestling kinda sucks.
A gimmick match is just that. If done once in a while is fine. ECW over did it and it got stale. But having them wrestler with weapons every once in a while is more then good.
Back in the day chairs and tables were pretty common on tv to be seen.
But now that you can complain that a show where super humans fights one another is too violent. You know what makes a match better? Getting hit in the head over and over again and not being able to bleed because some people dont like tos e blood. Ohh they are too dangerous. Its their job. No one complains how much its gonna hurt to get KO'd in the UFC because they want to see that.
While I dont want to see the guys hurt, I think they need to keep raising the bar. With TNA, Japan and Mexico putting out amazing wrestling matches. Slow, overly worked matches are not cutting it. Just like in the early 90, wrestling needs an edge. Otherwise its just a bunch of guys in trunks pretend to hurt one another. It kills the whole point. If they dont look like an actual threat, they are not gonna go over. And gimmick matches help them to establish themselves as a force in the company. That is why Cena got over as a champion. Because JBL sold the fuck outta his matches and made Cena looks like a real life Superhero. He bleed, he overcame and people cheered. Now no one cares since there is no reason behind him being that strong. At least when he bled it would have been rage, but its just Super Cena.
My point is, wrestling is a show to entertain us all. A huge company like WWE needs to put out a product that will appeal to all audiences. Not only the hardcore wrestling fan, a technical fan and a casual. They need to have them all. WHile casual fans might not watch as many PPVs as a die hard fan. So they will market the more brutal and violent matches for the PPV so sensitive people wont get their feelings hurt by watching the TV by choice.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

No offence but I think fans like you are the reason why wrestling kinda sucks.
A gimmick match is just that. If done once in a while is fine. ECW over did it and it got stale. But having them wrestler with weapons every once in a while is more then good.
Back in the day chairs and tables were pretty common on tv to be seen.
But now that you can complain that a show where super humans fights one another is too violent. You know what makes a match better? Getting hit in the head over and over again and not being able to bleed because some people dont like tos e blood. Ohh they are too dangerous. Its their job. No one complains how much its gonna hurt to get KO'd in the UFC because they want to see that.
While I dont want to see the guys hurt, I think they need to keep raising the bar. With TNA, Japan and Mexico putting out amazing wrestling matches. Slow, overly worked matches are not cutting it. Just like in the early 90, wrestling needs an edge. Otherwise its just a bunch of guys in trunks pretend to hurt one another. It kills the whole point. If they dont look like an actual threat, they are not gonna go over. And gimmick matches help them to establish themselves as a force in the company. That is why Cena got over as a champion. Because JBL sold the fuck outta his matches and made Cena looks like a real life Superhero. He bleed, he overcame and people cheered. Now no one cares since there is no reason behind him being that strong. At least when he bled it would have been rage, but its just Super Cena.
My point is, wrestling is a show to entertain us all. A huge company like WWE needs to put out a product that will appeal to all audiences. Not only the hardcore wrestling fan, a technical fan and a casual. They need to have them all. WHile casual fans might not watch as many PPVs as a die hard fan. So they will market the more brutal and violent matches for the PPV so sensitive people wont get their feelings hurt by watching the TV by choice.

I'm not sure if you read my post, but I said there that gimmick matches in this day and age are overrated. They have no meaning and are just forced. Back in the day, they would feel natural and would feel big. Now it's just something forced to cover up for lazy booking. I don't think I'm wrong here, and even though I agree with Dagger Dias above about how the Stairs match would be better than a normal 1v1 match, I still believe that better booking would make that 1v1 match better without needing the help of Stairs.

 

[rmp0012002]

I think a lot are overrated because some have corny rules but good matches like tables and ladders only work with the right wrestlers. Hardy's against Edge and Christian is a classic but stick another set of guys in that match and the fans are asleep.