General Comic Book Discussion Thread

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I see we have a Marvel/DC film/TV thread but no comic centric thread which, given the blockbuster stuff (doesn't mean good or bad, just BIG) happening with both company's I'm a tad surprised. Also indie comics are doing very well quality wise in certain areas. Plus there's a whole plethora of comic book history both recent and distant to chat about.

So right now Marvel are converging their universes to create one 'easy to follow' universe. Unfortunately Secret Wars is so difficult to follow if you want information on specific characters that you might be better waiting until it's over to check back in with the Marvel U.

Marvel are also, yet again, baiting hardcore Spider-Man fans (yours truly included) by teasing the reinstatement of his marriage to Mary-Jane and even using the stillborn/kidnapped/alternate universe heroine baby of his - one Mayday Parker - to sweeten the pot with his limited series running through the Secret Wars crossover. I go in with appallingly low expectations, that way I won't be disappointed/heartbroken/whatever overly invested lame feeling I may have.

Over at DC meanwhile, Batman's had a change...or several. Spoilers below:

Spoiler

Bruce Wayne, is presumed dead (note they haven't said he's officially dead, he's just 'presumed dead') after a brutal fight with the Joker and Jim Gordon is the new Batman:

Yup that's not my favourite costume, not by a long shot. This will likely take all of six months to a year to resolve itself with Bruce Wayne returning in time for the push toward Dawn of Justice as is now comic book custom.

So thoughts, discussion etc..?

 

[three count bout]

If you didn't read any of Hickmans Avengers or New Avengers run then Secret Wars #1 was probably confusing. I enjoyed the issue, and was glad to see the 2 year story of the multiverse ending come to conclusion. Issue #2 was more or less a tour through Battleworld, the patchwork world that survived the collapse of the multiverse and it's various regions and the barons who are in charge of them. I thought it did a great job of not explaining everything straight away and yet delivering some answers (Like who's in charge) so the intrigue is still there to finish the 8 issue series.

Some of the Tie-ins for Secret wars look interesting like Thors who were a big part of SW #2. The idea that a group of Thors are basically the police of Battleworld, and will I'm sure at some point realize all is not what it seems is interesting.

If you didn't read All New All Different Avengers from free comic book day it takes place after secret wars so presumably after the event everything will go back to normal. I love the team they chose though as I'm a huge Kamala Khan and Miles Morales mark so I hope for the best for the new team and this new comic.

Great thread.

 

[Uncle Sam]

#BringBackDickBats

 

[Bernkastel]

I find Marvel as a whole allot easier to follow than DC considering that most stories are centered in the Earth-616 universe, and most characters are categorized by power tiers, so it's easier to grasp the scale of everyone's powers and abilities.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Planning on trying to get my hands on all parts of the Clone Saga from start to finish by year's end and reading it through from start to finish for the first time. Having just read the wiki entry - which contains some fairly interesting info (connected to actual sources so it isn't pure hokum) - it's going to be a head hurting journey.

Random thought on this subject: I think I'm one of the few who was perfectly fine with...

Spoiler

...Norman being the mastermind and returning from the dead after close to 25 years - Gwen's death is what was important about that story - Norman was killed to bring the story to close and have a sense of justice served: that justice was undone of course, but no more so than Marvel had shat on 25 years of continuity anyway with the entire Clone debacle in the first place. Norman's return may have had more whole's in it than swiss cheese, but the Clone Saga was a doughnut - one giant being with an enormous gaping hole dominating it

Yes I do realise I put a spoiler for a plot that is two decades old.

Also, y'know what's also funny? Both the Clone Saga and One More Day were designed to make Spider-Man more relate-able to a younger audience by having him become a single, available bachelor again: they're considered by a vast majority of the fan base to be the two worst storylines of all time in the Spider-Verse - also, kids love them some overly convoluted science based plots and deals with Satan incarnate, right?

Finally on my moany rant of the day - why is Peter Parker not relate-able if he's married? Most of the people who buy Amazing Spider-Man are hardcore fans - circa 150,000 people pick Amazing up on a regular basis and these are long-term readers, a significant proportion of which are married or in long term relationships.

Hell, I'm 22 and I was more than content with married, 30 year old Peter pre-OMD: JMS, Bendis, Peter Jenkins, Mark Millar, Peter David and that hispanic fella whose name I forget but whose work on Sensational was very good all wrote very relate-able, very good married Spider-Man stories over a seven or so year period where the titles were their best for a long, long time and, BTW, a married Spidey was the focal point of many of their stories.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Can someone tell me wtf DC You is meant to be?

 

[Shocky]

Can someone tell me wtf DC You is meant to be?

From what I understand, everything ever written is canonical in DC. It allows writers to do whatever they like with characters, but it will create an alternate universe. Basically it allows the writers to do whatever they want, without paying attention to continuity.

 

[Shocky]

In fairness to Secret Wars, Secret Wars is not intended to be a story for everyone. If this is indeed the end of the Marvel Universe as we know it, it is being written for longtime fans with knowledge of the entire Marvel multiverse history. It's very Game of Thrones in its approach. Personally o can't wait until it's collected in Oversize format and reading it all.

If you're getting on board with it, and are looking to read up on what's going on, it starts with John Hickman. He had a helluva run on Fantastic Four. His run continues with the last series of Avengers and New Avengers leading into Secret Wars.

It's a damn shame what Marvel is doing to the X-Men and FF, but it's appropriate that the current Marvel Universe ends with the FF at the focal point.

 

[three count bout]

In fairness to Secret Wars, Secret Wars is not intended to be a story for everyone. If this is indeed the end of the Marvel Universe as we know it, it is being written for longtime fans with knowledge of the entire Marvel multiverse history. It's very Game of Thrones in its approach. Personally o can't wait until it's collected in Oversize format and reading it all.

If you're getting on board with it, and are looking to read up on what's going on, it starts with John Hickman. He had a helluva run on Fantastic Four. His run continues with the last series of Avengers and New Avengers leading into Secret Wars.

It's a damn shame what Marvel is doing to the X-Men and FF, but it's appropriate that the current Marvel Universe ends with the FF at the focal point.

Marvels Chief Editor claimed in an interview with IGN that Marvel hasn't forgotten about either FF or the X-Men and that both would have roles post Secret Wars. What that might be remains to be seen.

They also teased that we may be getting a new Wolverine and Hulk post SW.

 

[Shocky]

They say that, but they have certainly been marginalized the last several years. Simply looking at the line up for All-New, All-Different Marvel, not a member of either team in site. Likewise with the 2015 Marvel Lineup Poster, and promotional work for the 75th anniversary of the company. Marvel publishing can't afford to flat out get rid of the X-Men, they simply sell too many books. Pretending Inhumans and the Guardians are more significant franchises is irksome.

 

[three count bout]

They say that, but they have certainly been marginalized the last several years. Simply looking at the line up for All-New, All-Different Marvel, not a member of either team in site. Likewise with the 2015 Marvel Lineup Poster, and promotional work for the 75th anniversary of the company. Marvel publishing can't afford to flat out get rid of the X-Men, they simply sell too many books. Pretending Inhumans and the Guardians are more significant franchises is irksome.

I agree about the X-Men, and if Marvel is trying to phase them out to make the Inhumans more front and center before their movie drops I would consider it a silly move. I'm hoping Marvel realizes that after Secret Wars they need to ramp up the X-Men and just having Wolverine won't be enough.

I read a rumor about what Marvel was planning to do with the X-men, it wasn't appealing to say the least.

Funkay if you want to read about married Peter Parker Marvel just dropped "Spider-man renew your vows", I haven't read it yet but it does feature the married with child version of Spidey (albeit on Battleworld).

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Funkay if you want to read about married Peter Parker Marvel just dropped "Spider-man renew your vows", I haven't read it yet but it does feature the married with child version of Spidey (albeit on Battleworld).

I'm not even necessarily advocating for (Brock Lesnar?) a married Spider-Man, just natural progression for his character.

He's been nowhere near the focal point of Secret Wars or any related major crossover, he's simply just there. Even with Siege where his arch nemesis became the world's most powerful man, all he did was punch him in the face a single time (though that moment was sweet). If he's not involved, why fuck with his titles and shoe horn enormous amounts of editorial mandates via repetitive crossovers and unnecessary fiddling with the title.

Seriously, the single reason we have Spider-Gwen is because Joe Quesada has a huge hard-on for her. In fact the last 18 issues since Peter came back have ranged from painfully mediocre to just plain bad. And I like Slott, but his last run shows he's run out of steam - it took 18 issues to wrap up subplots left dangling from the Superior days.

Renew Yours Vows also brings up the unfortunate reminder that One More Day was completely unnecessary because a) Spider-Man would never do a deal with the fucking devil and b) it was designed to shitcan the marriage which while itself an editorial mandate, was one that was natural in its progression with good foundations not deus ex machina twenty years of continuity because we can't let go of the fact that Spider-Man didn't go the way we wanted it to twenty to thirty years ago.

What's also interesting is that Renew Your Vows has more pre-order sales than Secret Wars itself - problem is Marvel will attribute this somewhere other than the notion of a married Spider-Man.

It does appear that massive changes are afoot (duh) and while you and Shocky seemed to have covered it well, for Spidey it looks like he's going to get a new writer (or so the latest rumours say) and a costume update...again. His books are about to become a franchise once more what with Miles Morales, Silk and Spider-Gwen running round. Of course the latter two titles will likely barely make it to 18 issues and then go back into guest star obscurity (why hello there Scarlet Spider/Kaine how are you?)

 

[Shocky]

One More Day might be the biggest blight in the history of Marvel. What a bullshit story that effectively killed 4 decades of character growth. Spider-Man simply derailed after that. It says a lot about Marvel editorial at the time if they honestly believed Spider Man being married was a bad idea

Funkay, I think the complet Clone Saga Epic is still available. Pretty sure it's 7 volumes.

Marvel just tipped their hand with Wolverine, and I really dig it, so that's one positive this far.

 

[Alex]

I've been trying to get a hold of the Nightwing Bludhaven stories but it's incredibly hard. Still only have the first issue

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

One More Day might be the biggest blight in the history of Marvel. What a bullshit story that effectively killed 4 decades of character growth. Spider-Man simply derailed after that. It says a lot about Marvel editorial at the time if they honestly believed Spider Man being married was a bad idea

Not just that, but to end it with a deal with the devil? That just screams idiocy.

Funkay, I think the complet Clone Saga Epic is still available. Pretty sure it's 7 volumes.

I think between the 'Complete Clone Saga' and the 'Complete Ben Reilly Saga' it's seven volumes.

When I mention Scarlet Spider/Kaine though I'm referring to his short lived (think it was 18 issues or so) series which was fun but died a death. Venom (the Flash version) too went the same way. It always happens. 2099 and Miles might be the only two Spider-Persons away from the main books to have extended runs in their own titles beyond an 18 month to 2 year period.