Gang Rape Happens at a High School in California During a Dance

[SavageTaker]

I usually don’t post threads about things I find on CNN because I sometimes don’t have an opinion on some things or maybe I don’t think a thread needs to be made over whatever it is that I saw. But when I got home I searched this article because in one of my classes we had a discussion about it and I thought it needed a thread.

I entered my English class today, and my teacher told us that we weren’t going to be doing any actual work. Instead, she said we would be listening to her read two articles and only had to answer a few questions and just have a discussion about it. One of them was posted in the morning on CNN.com and the other one she found when her mom told her about it. The article (which I will post) that this thread had the similar effect on me that it had on her. It bothered me. And it bothered me for the same reasons.

(CNN) -- A California high school student who police said was gang raped in a two-and-a-half-hour assault outside a homecoming dance remained hospitalized in stable condition Monday, two days after she was flown from the attack scene in critical condition.

As of late Monday, two suspects had been arrested in the case and a third was being questioned.

"There is one individual in custody who has made some spontaneous statements that have led me to believe that he is culpable for what happened," Richmond police Lt. Johan Simon said.

Nineteen-year-old Manuel Ortega, described as a former student at the school, was arrested soon after he fled the scene and will face charges of rape, robbery and kidnapping, police said.

A 15-year-old was later arrested and charged with one count of felony sexual assault. A third teenager was being interviewed, according to Lt. Mark Gagan of the police department in Richmond, California.

"Based on witness statements and suspect statements, and also physical evidence, we know that she was raped by at least four suspects committing multiple sex acts," Gagan said.

Investigators said as many as 15 people, all males, stood around watching the assault, but did not call police or help the victim, a 15-year-old student at Richmond High School in suburban San Francisco.
Video: Gang rape outside school dance
Video: Can witnesses be prosecuted?
RELATED TOPICS

* Sexual Offenses
* California

"As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated," Gagan said.

Authorities had interviewed the victim, and the search for other attackers and bystanders who watched and did not report the rape was in "full-court press," according to Gagan.

"We have checked Facebook and YouTube to try to find any revealing evidence," he said. "We're looking in particular to see if anyone posted any video of the incident."

Several other individuals were detained at the scene but not arrested, Simon said.

The attack occurred on school grounds as the annual homecoming dance was under way inside the school Saturday night, authorities said.

The victim was found unconscious and "brutally assaulted" under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene "reminiscing about the incident," Gagan said.

"She ended up with those guys under her own will because she knew one of the boys who had gone to the high school before," Gagan said. "Right now, we're looking at toxicology reports to determine her blood-alcohol content and to determine if she was drugged."

According to authorities, the victim was flown to an area hospital in critical condition. She was in stable condition Monday, police said.

"This just gets worse and worse the more you dig into it," Gagan said. "It was like a horror movie after looking at the evidence. I can't believe not one person felt compelled to help her."

The main reasons that this article bothers me, it’s because it reminds me that this world has some sick, disgusting, and perverted people. And I’m not only talking about talking about the people who participated in the gang rape, but I’m also talking about the people who were standing around just watching and didn’t find one damn person to tell what was going on or call the authorities.

It’s sickening to know that there are people out there who couldn’t help out this poor girl because of whatever reasons. Honestly, if I had known about this then I would have called 911 immediately. Shit like this shouldn’t be happening to people. And it most certainly shouldn’t be happening on school grounds.

But knowing that this happened at the school bothers me even more. Shouldn’t there have been chaperones for the dance or officials walking around the school making sure it was safe? I know that most of them were probably at the place where the dance was happening, but I still think this whole thing could have been avoided or stopped before it was too late.

But what really bothers me is that a couple of weeks ago there was a homecoming dance at my school and there have been several rumors that people were having sex during the dance. I don’t know what sexual activities were going on or if anything really did happen but it really got me thinking. I know they are just rumors, but from everything I’ve heard, from both students and teachers, I think the chances of those rumors being true are very high. There was said to be condoms on the floors. Used condoms. So it got me wondering, if this (the gang rape) could happen at the High School in California then it could happen in my high school. It just bothers me knowing that. I don’t know why, but it just does.

It’s sickening to know that no one did anything at all when the girl was being gang raped and it’s sickening to know that these people probably have no remorse for their actions.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: Here is the link to a cop talking about the gang rape: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/10/27/gang.rape.investigation.northbaytv

 

[X]

It's nothing new ST. No different from the infamous Kitty Genovese case. Kitty was a woman who lived in New York City in the 60s and was stabbed to death in front of her apartment building while a dozen of her neighbors stood by and did nothing. It's something called the "Bystander effect", which theorizes that the more bystanders there are to a crime or attack, the less likely it is that someone will attempt to help that person and stop the attack.

You should really look into the sociological reasons for things like this if you're genuinely curious ST. You'd be surprised just how important the group mentality is, you'd be surprised by even your own actions in a similar scenario.

As for this case itself, obviously it's repulsive. Every one of those kids who participated in or watched that attack is a scumbag, plain and simple. I hope those kids get exactly the punishment coming to them, absolutely despicable.

 

[SavageTaker]

It's nothing new ST.

Oh trust me, I know people being raped happens all of the time and it’s not something new. But I still can’t help to be bothered and frustrated when I find out it has happened to someone. And it also bothers me when I know that that there were people watching and didn’t do a damn thing to help this girl. Instead, they just stood around. The gang rape went on for over 2 hours and not once did someone go to someone that could have stopped it all or called 911. Instead, they probably went and got their friends. I hope those sick bastards get what they deserve.

You should really look into the sociological reasons for things like this if you're genuinely curious ST. You'd be surprised just how important the group mentality is, you'd be surprised by even your own actions in a similar scenario.

Is that the same thing as the “mob mentality?” If so, then we did discuss that a little during class and I definitely do want to read more about it. Anyways, what the teacher described as was people thinking that since it’s a whole bunch of them, they aren’t all going to be punished. It was something among those lines if I remember correctly.

As for this case itself, obviously it's repulsive. Every one of those kids who participated in or watched that attack is a scumbag, plain and simple. I hope those kids get exactly the punishment coming to them, absolutely despicable.

I completely agree. I don’t know if there is some type of punishment that could be given to the people watching, but if there was then I hope they get it. That girl didn’t deserve to get what she got as far as I know.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I don't see why they'd want to prosecute the bystanders in this instance. I think it's pretty naive for people to want to hold the bystanders accountable for their inaction, as, more than likely, they would have stood by and done nothing as well.

If anyone should be held accountable here, it's the dance chaperons; where the hell were they at? It's kind of their job to make sure that situations like this don't happen.

 

[SavageTaker]

I don't see why they'd want to prosecute the bystanders in this instance. I think it's pretty naive for people to want to hold the bystanders accountable for their inaction, as, more than likely, they would have stood by and done nothing as well.

I just saw on one of CNN’s shows that some of the bystanders were actually participating in the gang rape and that there were about 15 people watching the rape for the 2+ hours it went on. Anyways, the people that just stood by and did nothing can’t get punished because according to CNN the laws are rigid therefore police aren’t allowed to arrest and punish them.

If anyone should be held accountable here, it's the dance chaperons; where the hell were they at? It's kind of their job to make sure that situations like this don't happen.

I do think that the chaperones should be punished. There is 2 reasons why. Firstly, the high school in which this incident happened in has a history of violence. Those chaperons should have been patrolling the school to make sure nothing was going on anywhere else. Also, they assumed that everyone was in the place where the dance was happening so they didn’t look around outside. The second reasons was that according to one of the members of the district’s school board said that proper procedures weren’t followed, so the people that were chaperoning the dance should be held accountable. This whole incident could have been stopped if they were doing what they were supposed to do.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I just saw on one of CNN’s shows that some of the bystanders were actually participating in the gang rape and that there were about 15 people watching the rape for the 2+ hours it went on. Anyways, the people that just stood by and did nothing can’t get punished because according to CNN the laws are rigid therefore police aren’t allowed to arrest and punish them.

Well, if there's physical evidence that someone had intercourse with this young woman against her own will, then they should be punished. And, I do find it odd and unsettling that some people would just stand there and watch this gang rape occur in its entirety. By bystander, I mean someone who walked by, stopped for a minute or two to fully comprehend what was going on, and then walked off without intervening. As much as it pains me to say this (and as horrible as the implications are for us as social beings), an overwhelming majority of us would not have done anything to help this young woman. I wholeheartedly commend people who have the courage to call the cops or intervene themselves in situations like these, but, for those who don't, I don't see how they could be held responsible, as they're just (reasonably) looking out for themselves.

 

[ABMorales787]

Sadly, the whole "bystanders seeing and not responding" thing is very common. Its a lot more common than what the media says or even knows. Why would people just "watch and leave"? Well, when I was still in high school we would talk about these kinds of things.From what I understand the human body is very flawed. When under a lot of stress people thend to not react, or make wrong decisions. Its most probable that when they saw these events taking place, they were overwhelmed and paniced after seeing so much people involved. When in these kinds of situations people tend to care for their own safety first, before thinking of others. Sadly, it seemed as if they feared for their lives and stayed quiet hoping they wouldn't be noticed. As for the boys who committed the disgusting act, well, its clear that there is a bad social enviroment if so many people where capable of commiting such an atrotious act. Judging fromyour previous posts, its apparent that the schools surroundings is having a mayorly negative influenze on the whole area. I'm sad that the world is in such bad shape, but to be honest, this isn't the worst story I've heared. I've heared a far worse one that disgusts me to no end today.

 

[CH David]

Been meaning to post in here. There is nothing I can really add to this. So if I repeat, so be it. This rape is fucking disgusting. A 15 year old girl, being raped for 2 1/2 fucking hours? I don't give a shit if it is called bystander effect or whatever the fuck it is, there is no excuse for nothing to be done in 2 1/2 hours. If it is a troubled neighborhood, as I think ST mentioned, then why the hell wasn't there even more security around the building? It is shit like this that makes me feel that the future is going to be fucked.

As far as the Bystander effect, people should have manned up and tried to help this poor 15 year old out, and not assist in the rape. I know I may not be in the situation, but I'd like to think that if I saw something like this, I'd help the girl out. There is no reason for a 15, fucking 15!!!!! year old to have to endure this by her classmates. If I saw someone especially if it were my old high school, I'd try and help out, even if I hated the girl getting it. No reason for it to happen, and those that just watched and did nothing should hate themselves for not trying to help.

 

[X]

I know we'd all like to think we'd help out if we were there David, but again, you're underestimating just how huge of a factor the bystander effect is. I'm sure most if not every one of those bystanders probably would have said the same thing you just did, but once you're in the giant crowd, things change. It's a natural human instinct to go with the crowd, you can't fight sociology, you just aren't going to win that battle. If there were 30 people surrounding this girl being raped, you'd try and help? I don't know man, I think you'd stop for a second, realize it would be you against 30 people, and your thought process might just change.

We all like to pretend we'd help the victim, but you just don't know until you're in that situation. I have this little experiment I could do to show you just how important the group mind is, but that would require a large group and us meeting in real life, so that's obviously not going to happen. Still, you'd really be shocked by how differently your thought process is in that kind of situation. There were millions of Germans who probably thought they would never, ever condone such a thing as the Holocaust, but when the entire country is swept up in Hitler's war fervor, very few people delivered on their ideals of justice.

 

[Miko]

There really arent many people that would intervene in a situation like this, think about it, a large group of people watching the rape happen, some of them taking part, others obviously not bothered. What are your odds? I'd like to think that I'd have stepped up and helped, I know I am crazy enough, but I still wonder, if in that situation, most of me says yes I would, but I have that nagging doubt.

Thats how it is, plenty of times I've read cases of people not intervening when something horrible has happened, and I think "why the fuck not?" then I realise that it's the same as the people who dont like watching a few kids pick on the ******ed kid in the playground, they hate it but they do nothing in case something happens to them. It's that on a larger scale.

 

[SavageTaker]

The problem in this case is that there weren’t many bystanders if any at all. But that’s if we go by Tdigle said earlier, a bystander being someone that saw what was happening for a couple of minutes and then just walked away without doing a damn thing. Most of the people who saw what was going stayed there for the full 2 ½ hours to just watch and or participate in this heinous crime.

Also, to be honest, I would have done something if I had seen what was going on. Obviously, I wouldn’t have intervene in a physical manner, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I can’t help. If I was there and I intervened then I would have been in a very dangerous position and the same would go for anyone who would have tried to intervene. There were over 15 people at the crime scene. Imagine being alone and trying to stop these violent, heartless people from gang raping this 15 year old girl? I don’t even want to imagine what could have happened to someone had they done that. It definitely wouldn’t have been a good idea for anyone to stop them knowing what the consequences were, and if they knew about the history of violence the school has which I mentioned earlier.

However, I did state that not intervening in a physical manner does not mean that you can’t help. At this dance, there should have been chaperones and police officers/sheriff’s patrolling the school. I am sure that someone that saw everything could have gone to someone that could have stopped the raped. Or, there’s always using your cell phone and dialing 911 when no one is paying attention or when you’re far away from everyone.

But I think this would go all the way back to the “mob mentality” that my teacher explained to my class, if you’re with a large group of people then you might feel like you’re not going to be punished because there’s a lot of people. Also, a lot of teens can be easily influenced and fall easily into peer pressure, so seeing people doing something to the girl or just standing around might influence them and make them think that they aren’t doing anything wrong because everyone else is doing the same thing. It’s kind of like the bandwagon technique used by advertisers and people in marketing.

You know, this thread has given a few topics to make new threads about. I might post some later. By the way, thanks to everyone for throwing in their two cents.

 

[Razor]

While we would all like to sit back and say "Uh, yeah. I'd help her. I'd charge in and beat those nasty, perverted boy's asses. And if I didn't do that, I'd at least call the cops," you simply can't say that. You definitely do not know what you would do in any such situation until you're in one for real. It's like saying you'd take a bullet for someone. You like to think you will, that if you see someone aiming a gun at your family member you'd jump in the way and protect them, but you simply don't know. You could freeze. You could stutter. You could turn tail and run away.

What these men did was disgusting, no lie. And the outrage seen is, I suppose, justified. This is heinous, it's crazy. It just goes to show that humans are capable of anything, as I said in a thread that was lost in a sea of others. We are capable of anything, even gang-raping a 15 year old for 2 and a half hours, even standing by and watching as it unfolded, even jeering the rapers on. It's sad. But it's our brains.

What I can see from this are two things.

1) The rapists are arrested, found guilty, and put in jail. The underage offenders will, hopefully, be tried as adults. They obviously knew what they were doing as they forced themselves upon the woman. There is no "but they're children!" to argue here.

2) The rapists are arrested, the girl is found to have been drunk at the time of the assault (which was reported in the first accounts I saw on AP News and what not), and the girl is put on trial by the Defense as a ****e who wanted to have sex with those men. They can make a rather solid case. Why else would a crowd of people just stand by and watch? Why else would people actually cheer the act on? Reasonable doubt would be in the bag if the actions weren't so heinous and troubling.

Well, this thread has at least done one thing. It's shown me how disgusting it must feel to be a defense attorney. I need to go shake some of this slime off of me.

 

[SavageTaker]

2) The rapists are arrested, the girl is found to have been drunk at the time of the assault (which was reported in the first accounts I saw on AP News and what not), and the girl is put on trial by the Defense as a ****e who wanted to have sex with those men. They can make a rather solid case. Why else would a crowd of people just stand by and watch? Why else would people actually cheer the act on? Reasonable doubt would be in the bag if the actions weren't so heinous and troubling.

I agree with the majority of what you said, especially the rapists being trialed as adults, however what I put on bold is the only thing I disagreed with.

There’s a difference between being raped and asking for sex with one man and I’m sure you know that. The girl that was raped wanted sex, that’s correct from what I understand. However, she got raped and assaulted by multiple men for 2 and a half hours.

She didn’t ask for that to happen nor did she deserve it. It just happened and she didn’t know it would. Because she wasn’t asking for multiple sexual acts to be done to her by multiple men and because she wasn’t asking for assault, I don’t think she should be charged for anything at all. I think it’s asinine to suggest that because she did nothing wrong from what I understand.

 

[PEP3]

As it stands, six men have been charged in this assault. Four were minors -- 15, 16 & 17-year-olds -- and have been charged as adults. The district attorney means business here. Most were not only charged with rape, they were also charged with an assortment of other crimes including using deadly force to hold her, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. If convicted, they all face life in prison.

What is truly sad is that this situation unquestionably destroyed several young lives, not the least of which is the girl who will be traumatized for the rest of her life.

 

[PEP3]

I agree with the majority of what you said, especially the rapists being trialed as adults, however what I put on bold is the only thing I disagreed with.

There’s a difference between being raped and asking for sex with one man and I’m sure you know that. The girl that was raped wanted sex, that’s correct from what I understand. However, she got raped and assaulted by multiple men for 2 and a half hours.

She didn’t ask for that to happen nor did she deserve it. It just happened and she didn’t know it would. Because she wasn’t asking for multiple sexual acts to be done to her by multiple men and because she wasn’t asking for assault, I don’t think she should be charged for anything at all. I think it’s asinine to suggest that because she did nothing wrong from what I understand.

Taker, unfortunately the way the defense will try to prove these young men innocent IS to attack the young woman's moral turpitude. That's how it almost always goes in cases where the actual sex act is indisputable. Since the prosecution has a very clear case of multiple sexual partners and undoubtedly can prove which of the men actually participated in the sex acts, defense won't be able to deny that involvement.

As a result, the only thing they'll be able to do to defend the young men is try to make the jury somehow believe the victim "wanted" or willingly participated in some way. What happens is then the victim's morals are dragged through the mud, often causing an outcome which leaves them feeling as violated emotionally as the crime left them physically.

 

[Razor]

I agree with the majority of what you said, especially the rapists being trialed as adults, however what I put on bold is the only thing I disagreed with.

There’s a difference between being raped and asking for sex with one man and I’m sure you know that. The girl that was raped wanted sex, that’s correct from what I understand. However, she got raped and assaulted by multiple men for 2 and a half hours.

She didn’t ask for that to happen nor did she deserve it. It just happened and she didn’t know it would. Because she wasn’t asking for multiple sexual acts to be done to her by multiple men and because she wasn’t asking for assault, I don’t think she should be charged for anything at all. I think it’s asinine to suggest that because she did nothing wrong from what I understand.

I'm afraid you misunderstand. I'm not saying they'll charge her with anything. I'm saying that the Defense will argue that the chick wanted to have sex with the boys, decided she didn't want to anymore after the act was committed, and so cried rape. If she's found to be drunk then it'll be even more of a lock.

She wanted sex with one boy? That's getting into even deeper waters. The defense can now say "Look. She wanted to have intercourse with this man. As they were going through the throws of passion, she invited the others to join. After 2 and a half hours of fornication, and the girl realized what she had just done in front of a crowd of 20 people, she's recanted her earlier position. Now she cries rape."

I'm not calling her a ****e, I'm not saying that she deserved what she got, I'm not saying anything. I don't know all the facts, and the police don't either. The one thing that remains true in this case is that we have a girl that cried rape, 4 defendants as of now, and a few Defense attorneys that want their defendants to beat jail. Reasonable doubt, ST. Reasonable doubt is all they need.

 

[CH David]

The only time that I would not step in, is if I knew I would get shot or stabbed. Simple as that and guaranteed. I don't care what you have to say about the bystander effect, X, Razor, or whoever wants to add to this. I would be down to get my ass kicked if I was trying to help and I could get a few shots in. Perhaps I am stupid. Who knows? I hate seeing or hearing things like women getting hit, beaten, raped, etc. Two friends and I messed up a kids house because we heard he threatened to hit his girlfriend. I don't take kindly to that shit X.

Now perhaps if I were 15 years old, and at said homecoming dance, I may not intervene physically. I would probably call the cops, because I was raised knowing that that shit is wrong, and to fuck the group's status quo. If I am there, or a shitty event happens in my area, while I am right now 19, I intervene. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I attempt to help that 15 year old. I mean Jesus Christ X, and I have already exclamated the point, she was fucking 15. Now she is going to go through life thinking that all guys are out to get her, and none have a good conscience because no one would help her. What the fuck good does that do for her life X? Yeah, all rape victims have to deal with it, but when you are 15, hello, fragile fucking mind much? Either a freshman or sophomore in high school, brain still developing. I'd rather get my ass handed to me, so that she wouldn't have to deal with the trauma of such an event.

Maybe most of us think like that. Most of you might think I'm talking out of my ass, trying to think I am high and mighty. I'm not trying to sound high and mighty. I was raised not to put up with bullshit like that. Step in if that situation occurs, no matter if I am going to get my ass kicked or not. That is my take and situation, and I don't care about the bystander effect X.