Forget Reigns.... Give it to Ambrose
- Thread starter GOOZEKING
- Start date
hollowpoint
The Greatest of the Universe!!
I think they both have their flaws, but if we talking who's closer then I would agree that it is Ambrose, not Reigns. I have to see Ambrose in a standard match first though. He's great in hardcore matches, no holds barred, and Falls count anywhere, however I have yet to see him in a one on one standard match where he's telling a story with a 20 minute standard match.
Reigns tries to hard to be a showman and panders to the crowd too much. He has the look, but his timing seems off. Even though he beat Orton at SummerSlam, Orton out performed him.
Reigns tries to hard to be a showman and panders to the crowd too much. He has the look, but his timing seems off. Even though he beat Orton at SummerSlam, Orton out performed him.
I am a fan of and hope that all 3 members of the Shield will be successful Top WWE SuperStars by next SummerSlam.
That said; with Brock Lesnar's obvious invincibility levels through the roof, would Ambrose be a really believable threat to Lesnar for a Wrestlemania Event?? Regardless of how over he is atm, I just don't think he has the presence as yet tbh.
I feel the same way about Daniel Bryan's chances also.
Both guys(Bryan and Ambrose) would undoubtedly put on brilliant matches with Lesnar, but I don't think they are believable threats to defeat him. It would be an extreme case of having to suspend disbelief,lMO.
Whoever faces Brock Lesnar at WM31(assuming that he isn't signing a new contract), has to be someone that is also built up as a powerful force that actually looks a believable threat to Defeat Brock Lesnar.
To me, Ambrose nor Bryan will be that person,tbh.
As for Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar... I think it is too early to say that that match will occur given that Reigns is still a clear work in progress in every aspect, but, there is still about 6-7 months to go till Wrestlemania 31 and it could still occur.
There is still John Cena possible getting his win back in some fashion, though very unlikely, whilst Vince is reportedly high on a certain Top Hollywood Actor...
That said; with Brock Lesnar's obvious invincibility levels through the roof, would Ambrose be a really believable threat to Lesnar for a Wrestlemania Event?? Regardless of how over he is atm, I just don't think he has the presence as yet tbh.
I feel the same way about Daniel Bryan's chances also.
Both guys(Bryan and Ambrose) would undoubtedly put on brilliant matches with Lesnar, but I don't think they are believable threats to defeat him. It would be an extreme case of having to suspend disbelief,lMO.
Whoever faces Brock Lesnar at WM31(assuming that he isn't signing a new contract), has to be someone that is also built up as a powerful force that actually looks a believable threat to Defeat Brock Lesnar.
To me, Ambrose nor Bryan will be that person,tbh.
As for Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar... I think it is too early to say that that match will occur given that Reigns is still a clear work in progress in every aspect, but, there is still about 6-7 months to go till Wrestlemania 31 and it could still occur.
There is still John Cena possible getting his win back in some fashion, though very unlikely, whilst Vince is reportedly high on a certain Top Hollywood Actor...
You do know SummerSlam was Reigns 1st Ever Singles Match on PPV and Randy Orton is amongst the best in-ring workers in the WWE as evidenced by his brilliant reversals on the Superman Punch(into an RKO) and the initial Spear attempt(into a Scoop Slam).
Also, as I mentioned in my other post, I just can't see Ambrose being a believable threat to this Brock Lesnar, not after he has beaten the Streak and then absolutely dismantled the Face of the Company in the manner he did... It would take some unbelievable booking of Ambrose for him to even be considered a Challenger,lMO.
If the WWE goes down the road they're going down right now whoever beats Lesnar is going to be a big deal.
I'm not sure if anyone is even at that level right now.
Reigns is cool and I like him a lot but I'm not sure if he is at that main event level yet.
Ambrose has shown he can be good but like Reigns I'm not sure if he's at that level.
It's only August right now so there's plenty of time if Lesnar is to keep the title until WM31. If he's defending it on a regular basis that's going to just add to what he's already done so someone is going to have to be built up really well.
I'm not sure if anyone is even at that level right now.
Reigns is cool and I like him a lot but I'm not sure if he is at that main event level yet.
Ambrose has shown he can be good but like Reigns I'm not sure if he's at that level.
It's only August right now so there's plenty of time if Lesnar is to keep the title until WM31. If he's defending it on a regular basis that's going to just add to what he's already done so someone is going to have to be built up really well.
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
Have always thought this. Ambrose talks better than both others, works better, and carries a character better. The "is he credible to beat Brock", hell yea he is. A guy with no fear and all guts, kinda wild. That's exactly who beats Brock.
If they could book Ambrose like they did Stone Cold during the Attitude Era, I could see it.
Ambrose is doing all the right things. I was worried when he first turned face that it wouldn't work out, I thought he would be better as a heel but I was wrong.
I'm curious to see what he can do if WWE ever gives him a chance.
Ambrose is doing all the right things. I was worried when he first turned face that it wouldn't work out, I thought he would be better as a heel but I was wrong.
I'm curious to see what he can do if WWE ever gives him a chance.
WarroBODFan
Doink Stan
Why not both? Or all three Shield members at the top level?
I'm the first to admit that Reigns has a lot to work on. But why are we so stuck in this mindset that there can only be one top babyface and one top heel in the company in the first place? I think it's a mindset that has held the WWE back at times from producing the superstars that could have hung around elite tier status. I'm not saying this is your mindset OP, just a perspective of mine in general.
I don't see a reason why these guys can't hang at the top level together. While yes, one will have more emphasis over the others depending on the feud/time off/importance etc, it can swing back and forth. I think it'll be nice to have some variety. To the actual topic in hand though? I think Reigns may NEED it more than Ambrose. Ambrose's recent popularity is an organic process. He's helped build the momentum himself because he's just generally awesome. Reigns is over, no doubt. But it'll take some more work for him to get over with the more raucous members of the WWE universe. For me, Ambrose doesn't need to take on Lesnar to continue his momentum.
I'm the first to admit that Reigns has a lot to work on. But why are we so stuck in this mindset that there can only be one top babyface and one top heel in the company in the first place? I think it's a mindset that has held the WWE back at times from producing the superstars that could have hung around elite tier status. I'm not saying this is your mindset OP, just a perspective of mine in general.
I don't see a reason why these guys can't hang at the top level together. While yes, one will have more emphasis over the others depending on the feud/time off/importance etc, it can swing back and forth. I think it'll be nice to have some variety. To the actual topic in hand though? I think Reigns may NEED it more than Ambrose. Ambrose's recent popularity is an organic process. He's helped build the momentum himself because he's just generally awesome. Reigns is over, no doubt. But it'll take some more work for him to get over with the more raucous members of the WWE universe. For me, Ambrose doesn't need to take on Lesnar to continue his momentum.
Man, I'm really starting to love Ambrose, a lot. But he's a midcarder. He's not the guy that can carry that belt and give it any relevance. He just isn't big enough, strong enough, or skilled enough. The champ has to have something special. Punk didn't have size, but he had his skills in the promo/talking department. Lesnar is a beast. Cena is a monster. Orton has the look. Even Rollins has the look, just not the promo skills yet. Ambrose just doesn't have the look or the mic skills.
Don't get me wrong, being a midcarder isn't an insult. Once he's done with Rollins, hopefully he can have something meaningful in the midcard and really bring some relevance to the heels.
Don't get me wrong, being a midcarder isn't an insult. Once he's done with Rollins, hopefully he can have something meaningful in the midcard and really bring some relevance to the heels.
Hon estly I think if they built up how unpredictable the guy is both in and out of the ring and really let him cut loose than I do believe fans would take him as a threat to Lesnar.
Play up how Lesnar is a UFC guy who likes to study his opponents before the fight and how that puts him at a disadvantage against a guy like Ambrose, who doesn't even know himself what he's going to do from one minute to the next
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
WWE is being very smart with all 3 guys and for all the talk of Reigns besting Lesnar, their best play is to have all 3 guys headline Mania for the title with Rock v Brock being the other, non title main event.
In the 3 former members they have this generations Rock (Reigns), Austin (Ambrose) and Triple H (Rollins) all are being brought along at the same time. Ambrose is arguably the right guy to dethrone Lesnar, only to be cashed in on by Rollins after Brock destroys him. Reigns wins the Rumble to get to Mania and Ambrose returns in time to demand his rematch.
This scenario would allow all 3 to get the title at similar times, just as Hunter/Rock and Austin did so they continue to grow together to carry that main event.
There seems to be an element of Ambrose "doing more" with what he has than Reigns is right now so there is now no danger of him being the "forgotten man", even if he is offscreen filming.
In the 3 former members they have this generations Rock (Reigns), Austin (Ambrose) and Triple H (Rollins) all are being brought along at the same time. Ambrose is arguably the right guy to dethrone Lesnar, only to be cashed in on by Rollins after Brock destroys him. Reigns wins the Rumble to get to Mania and Ambrose returns in time to demand his rematch.
This scenario would allow all 3 to get the title at similar times, just as Hunter/Rock and Austin did so they continue to grow together to carry that main event.
There seems to be an element of Ambrose "doing more" with what he has than Reigns is right now so there is now no danger of him being the "forgotten man", even if he is offscreen filming.
Reflection
is a happier and wiser man
LMFAO... is this a joke? Lesnar vs Ambrose? Really? The guy that beat the crap out of a 15-time world champion, will face... a guy that probably hasn't beaten a single main-eventer yet, and is in his first singles main-event feud... of which he has so far been on the losing end... You want Brock to defend against this guy??? He isn't remotely believable as a potential threat. His 1004 indy moves (although he too mostly does punches and kicks) or superior mic skills won't put him in a better position against The Beast. What are his chances of connecting Lesnar with a Dirty Deeds? Lesnar will crush him within 5 minutes.
Reigns, on the other hand, has proven himself as one of the toughest guys in the roster right now, and most likely the future face of the company. His spear has laid out guys like Kane, Del Rio, Batista, Triple-H, Randy Orton and John Cena. His finishers don't require him to grapple or lift up Lesnar, and can come out of nowhere. Reigns is many times more credible than Ambrose as a challenger to Lesnar.
Reigns, on the other hand, has proven himself as one of the toughest guys in the roster right now, and most likely the future face of the company. His spear has laid out guys like Kane, Del Rio, Batista, Triple-H, Randy Orton and John Cena. His finishers don't require him to grapple or lift up Lesnar, and can come out of nowhere. Reigns is many times more credible than Ambrose as a challenger to Lesnar.
Here's how I think this is going to break down.
Cena will get his rematch at NOC and lose.
Batista gets the next shot. Batista/Lesnar at Survivor Series (You can bet WWE will promote the Guardians of the Galaxy DVD Release through the roof) Also Batista is the only physical specimen outside of Sheamus who looks formidable next to Lesnar. Batista will lose.
Ambrose is going to win the MITB contract from Rollins. There's no need for a heel to hold it right now. Ambrose gets Lesnar at the Rumble. He gets the first shot because of his superior mic skills to Reigns. Heyman/Ambrose can keep that feud interesting while Lesnar is hunting Moose or whatever Viking Overlords do in the winter. Ambrose will lose.
Reigns wins the Rumble. His mic skills don't matter at that point because he's guaranteed the shot regardless. By that point, the WWE will have him built as WWE's only hope. Reigns will beat Lesnar.
So Reigns and Ambrose will both get their chance to shine. Ambrose gets the first shot, but Reigns is clearly the new Cena so he gets the strap.
(All of this changes if Vince gives The Rock 20 Million for Mania)
Cena will get his rematch at NOC and lose.
Batista gets the next shot. Batista/Lesnar at Survivor Series (You can bet WWE will promote the Guardians of the Galaxy DVD Release through the roof) Also Batista is the only physical specimen outside of Sheamus who looks formidable next to Lesnar. Batista will lose.
Ambrose is going to win the MITB contract from Rollins. There's no need for a heel to hold it right now. Ambrose gets Lesnar at the Rumble. He gets the first shot because of his superior mic skills to Reigns. Heyman/Ambrose can keep that feud interesting while Lesnar is hunting Moose or whatever Viking Overlords do in the winter. Ambrose will lose.
Reigns wins the Rumble. His mic skills don't matter at that point because he's guaranteed the shot regardless. By that point, the WWE will have him built as WWE's only hope. Reigns will beat Lesnar.
So Reigns and Ambrose will both get their chance to shine. Ambrose gets the first shot, but Reigns is clearly the new Cena so he gets the strap.
(All of this changes if Vince gives The Rock 20 Million for Mania)
Terry Gyimah
Championship Contender
Yes Ambrose out of the Shield members he is probably the one who has now gained the most popularity in the sense that he has become more popular than Seth Rollins and hell has even become more popular than Roman Reigns himself and everyone is already saying Reigns is the man in this company or he is being groomed for Cena's spot but if anyone should be groomed for Cena's spot it is definitely Ambrose not Reigns or even Rollins for that matter
Winds-Of-Change
Occasional Pre-Show
I'm all for Reigns' super push. But personally as it stands right now, Roman Reigns is ridiculous. He is in serious need of a change. He needs an edge, get rid of that damn ring gear. You look a member of the JOB Squad.
If they can slowly give Reigns this edge, give him a personality and change his damn shit gear, then push him to the moon.
If they can slowly give Reigns this edge, give him a personality and change his damn shit gear, then push him to the moon.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I like all three of them but, as some others have said, I agree that Ambrose is much closer to being THERE than Roman Reigns. I've long since felt that Ambrose & Rollins are farther along than Reigns but, then again, it's not so surprising as they've been in the business for a lot longer than he has.
Ambrose vs. Rollins at SummerSlam and last night on Raw stole the show in terms of sheer action and Ambrose is someone who definitely puts me in mind of a combination of Stone Cold Steve Austin and Brian Pillman's "Loose Cannon" persona. He's definitely one of the first to come along in a long time that gives off the "I don't give a shit" or "I'm too crazy to care" attitudes in WWE. According to WWE.com, Dean Ambrose "escaped" last night after refusing medical treatment. The storyline article says that he suffered cranial and spinal trauma due to last night's actions. While I thought the concrete blocks were pretty silly, the notion of him being "injured" yet "escaping" and being on the loose does seem in line with his character.
Based simply on what I see so far, I think there's more money in Ambrose & Rollins than in Reigns in the long run. However, I'm also of the opinion that there's money in all three of them, I think it's something that we've sensed in them since shortly after they debuted. At some point not too far down the road, I can see them in a threeway feud over the WWE World Heavyweight Championship.
Ambrose vs. Rollins at SummerSlam and last night on Raw stole the show in terms of sheer action and Ambrose is someone who definitely puts me in mind of a combination of Stone Cold Steve Austin and Brian Pillman's "Loose Cannon" persona. He's definitely one of the first to come along in a long time that gives off the "I don't give a shit" or "I'm too crazy to care" attitudes in WWE. According to WWE.com, Dean Ambrose "escaped" last night after refusing medical treatment. The storyline article says that he suffered cranial and spinal trauma due to last night's actions. While I thought the concrete blocks were pretty silly, the notion of him being "injured" yet "escaping" and being on the loose does seem in line with his character.
Based simply on what I see so far, I think there's more money in Ambrose & Rollins than in Reigns in the long run. However, I'm also of the opinion that there's money in all three of them, I think it's something that we've sensed in them since shortly after they debuted. At some point not too far down the road, I can see them in a threeway feud over the WWE World Heavyweight Championship.
I think Reigns will ultimately be the one pushed the hardest (for now) he has the WWE it factor, the look, size etc. He just needs the personality and more polished in ring skills first.
I think a shield triple threat match for the title at WM31 is a fantastic option though
I think a shield triple threat match for the title at WM31 is a fantastic option though
Thank you.
This is exactly what I have been saying.
Yes, Ambrose has been brilliant as the Lunatic thus far and is over big time, however, even the comparisons with Stone Cold(beyond both being rebel like) are far fetched,lMO. Stone Cold wasn't just a crazy SOB, he also genuinely looked like a guy who can go toe to toe with the very best and there would be no need to suspend disbelief at all.
However, anyone who thinks Dean Ambrose beating this Brock Lesnar wouldn't require fans to suspend disbelief in a big way is talking B.S.
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
Yes, and considering that thought, I think Reigns has a better chance of beating Lesnar.....and fighting on the level of the other main event performers....than does Dean Ambrose.
Ambrose is currently engaged in the perfect feud for a guy like him; against a guy (Seth Rollins) with whom he has history that lends itself perfectly to a multi-match confrontation. They're approximately the same size and level of ability.....and they know each other well from all that time as tag team partners. The big question is what Ambrose will be doing after his program with Rollins ends.
Roman Reigns is in a different position. His individual push was initially delayed.....and then accelerated to the point he's already fighting main event wrestlers. Whether you like Randy Orton or not, there's no question he's in the elite of WWE performers.....and Roman got the win cleanly. That speaks volumes about whether Reigns' push is "slowing."
Due to that alone, I don't see comparing his push to that of Dean Ambrose. I like Dean more than I thought I would but don't see him as a main event performer. After he's through with his perfectly-suited feud with Rollins, I see Dean fighting on the upper midcard, at best.
If WWE Creative can find stuff for him that elevates the guy to main event status, it would be a pleasant surprise.
But Dean Ambrose beating Brock Lesnar.....or whomever is holding the world title?
Nah.
Make no mistake about it, I've become a pretty big fan of the work of Dean Ambrose. While I was unfamiliar with him in his pre-WWE days, I quickly became a fan of his during his time with the Shield. And I think I have been enjoying the lunatic fringe side of him, since the Shield disbanded, even more. I think he (as well as Reigns and Rollins) has a very bright future in WWE.
Having said all of this, there's no way in hell I can buy him as a plausible threat to Brock Lesnar. I've said it several times now in various threads: they made Lesnar look too invincible, too imposing, too dominant in his annihilation of Cena. If the face of the company (or the business for that matter) who has dominated the WWE for a decade (at times ridiculously so) gets thrown around like a pillow, mounting absolutely no offense whatsoever in the process, being made a fool of in the process, cannot bring anything more than 2-3 30 second bursts of offense to the beast incarnate, how am I supposed to believe that Ambrose can get it done?
The match would start, Lesnar would throw him into the corner, kick and knee the bejesus out of him, and when he's near death, F5 him right through the canvas. Anything else would be totally implausible at this point. For anyone to sustain a realistic threat to Brock Lesnar at this stage of the game, they would need to be a much bigger guy and even then, I think they need help. They would need to cheat to win, take advantage of his medical history whatever. But there's no way anyone is beating Lesnar straight up, one on one, without size and assistance. And Ambrose, no way. You can only stretch kayfabe so far. This would involve total suspension of plausibility.
Of course there is one better option, as I've already discussed in another thread
Having said all of this, there's no way in hell I can buy him as a plausible threat to Brock Lesnar. I've said it several times now in various threads: they made Lesnar look too invincible, too imposing, too dominant in his annihilation of Cena. If the face of the company (or the business for that matter) who has dominated the WWE for a decade (at times ridiculously so) gets thrown around like a pillow, mounting absolutely no offense whatsoever in the process, being made a fool of in the process, cannot bring anything more than 2-3 30 second bursts of offense to the beast incarnate, how am I supposed to believe that Ambrose can get it done?
The match would start, Lesnar would throw him into the corner, kick and knee the bejesus out of him, and when he's near death, F5 him right through the canvas. Anything else would be totally implausible at this point. For anyone to sustain a realistic threat to Brock Lesnar at this stage of the game, they would need to be a much bigger guy and even then, I think they need help. They would need to cheat to win, take advantage of his medical history whatever. But there's no way anyone is beating Lesnar straight up, one on one, without size and assistance. And Ambrose, no way. You can only stretch kayfabe so far. This would involve total suspension of plausibility.
Of course there is one better option, as I've already discussed in another thread
hollowpoint
The Greatest of the Universe!!
What does this even mean? They had the exact same match in about 3 different live shows leading up to SummerSlam. I don't see "Face of the Company" in Reigns. He may have a run with the title, he may even be the one to take out the one who...well you get it, but I don't think he has the entire package to carry the company.
What is with everyone saying how it isn't believe and how you need a bigger and more powerful guy to beat lesnar... If that's the case then book Khali vs lesnar.. What is not believe about someone like bryan or Ambrose to beat lesnar it is all about storytelling and great underdog story at the best
After watching what Lesnar just did to John Cena, if you think that Daniel Bryan or Dean Ambrose or any other 5'8 wrestler will look like a competitor, you're just watching a different product.
Like I said, I really like Ambrose. In fact, I think that he and Rollins have combined to have the best matches on probably the last 3 or 4 PPVs. But he isn't Main Event material. He's got Intercontinental Champion written all over him, and that's something to really appreciate.
Like I said, I really like Ambrose. In fact, I think that he and Rollins have combined to have the best matches on probably the last 3 or 4 PPVs. But he isn't Main Event material. He's got Intercontinental Champion written all over him, and that's something to really appreciate.
Here's how I view it:
Reigns will be the "star" from SummerSlam 2014-Wrestlemania 33
Rollins will be the "star" from Wrestlemania 33-SummerSlam 2016
Ambrose will be the "star" from SummerSlam 2016-Wrestlemania 34
At which point, I'd like to imagine they all stay relevant and about the same level.
Reigns will have the IWC hating him within a year of him getting the title, and each week he'll get more boos :shrugs:
Rollins will win the title but I just don't think he has enough staying power to be the "top" guy for long
Ambrose comes in but by then the WWE has built up enough guys to be The Guy his reign on top alone is shortened.
Then you have: Cena(just a bit), Orton(a bit), Bryan, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Cesaro, Bray, Sheamus and some other once in a while guys in the main event.
I don't see why we care who gets the push first, just so long as we see our guy at the top at some point
Reigns will be the "star" from SummerSlam 2014-Wrestlemania 33
Rollins will be the "star" from Wrestlemania 33-SummerSlam 2016
Ambrose will be the "star" from SummerSlam 2016-Wrestlemania 34
At which point, I'd like to imagine they all stay relevant and about the same level.
Reigns will have the IWC hating him within a year of him getting the title, and each week he'll get more boos :shrugs:
Rollins will win the title but I just don't think he has enough staying power to be the "top" guy for long
Ambrose comes in but by then the WWE has built up enough guys to be The Guy his reign on top alone is shortened.
Then you have: Cena(just a bit), Orton(a bit), Bryan, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Cesaro, Bray, Sheamus and some other once in a while guys in the main event.
I don't see why we care who gets the push first, just so long as we see our guy at the top at some point
The simple fact if the matter is, while WWE is indeed all about storytelling, and that storytelling may well involve stories of triumphant underdogs, there still has to be some plausibility behind the story being told. Look, I would assume that there's not a single guy on these forums who believes the product is real; we all appreciate the concept of kayfabe. But kayfabe generally doesn't work if it stretches believability too far. And for me, seeing Brock Lesnar decimate John Cena unlike he's ever been beaten before, then lose to someone as small as Bryan or Ambrose, I simply can't buy it, not even for guys as skilled as those two. And please don't bring Khali into the discussion, that's silly, as he wouldn't be plausible either, the dude can barely walk.
Similar threads
